Police abuse

Bentleyspop

gvn2fly1421 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Here's the cop that wrote the above letter to LeBron. Very level-headed and smart guy. Just looking to start a dialogue between cops and the public....

https://youtu.be/_vgzUUwNKas

"But you posted a video from FauxNews"

How dare you?  I prefer to get my news from the Washington Post where they teach me how to film police encounters so I can "stay in control of the narrative".  How does this in any way help move the conversation along?

This is a good idea.
The more citizens filming cops being bad the better.
Imagine if that teenage girl hadn't stood her ground in Minneapolis. 

gvn2fly1421

Bentleyspop said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Here's the cop that wrote the above letter to LeBron. Very level-headed and smart guy. Just looking to start a dialogue between cops and the public....

https://youtu.be/_vgzUUwNKas

"But you posted a video from FauxNews"

How dare you?  I prefer to get my news from the Washington Post where they teach me how to film police encounters so I can "stay in control of the narrative".  How does this in any way help move the conversation along?

This is a good idea.
The more citizens filming cops being bad the better.
Imagine if that teenage girl hadn't stood her ground in Minneapolis. 

Absolutely, 100% with you.  But why use the language of controlling a narrative?  Saying officer-worn body cameras can obscure the truth?

Why not just release the videos and let the facts speak for themselves?  

HughFreakingDillon

I guess we need citizen-worn body cameras. 

Merkin Baller

Bentleyspop said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Here's the cop that wrote the above letter to LeBron. Very level-headed and smart guy. Just looking to start a dialogue between cops and the public....

https://youtu.be/_vgzUUwNKas

"But you posted a video from FauxNews"

How dare you?  I prefer to get my news from the Washington Post where they teach me how to film police encounters so I can "stay in control of the narrative".  How does this in any way help move the conversation along?

This is a good idea.
The more citizens filming cops being bad the better.
Imagine if that teenage girl hadn't stood her ground in Minneapolis. 

Exactly. 

Halifax2TheMax

gvn2fly1421 said:

Bentleyspop said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Here's the cop that wrote the above letter to LeBron. Very level-headed and smart guy. Just looking to start a dialogue between cops and the public....

https://youtu.be/_vgzUUwNKas

"But you posted a video from FauxNews"

How dare you?  I prefer to get my news from the Washington Post where they teach me how to film police encounters so I can "stay in control of the narrative".  How does this in any way help move the conversation along?

This is a good idea.
The more citizens filming cops being bad the better.
Imagine if that teenage girl hadn't stood her ground in Minneapolis. 

Absolutely, 100% with you.  But why use the language of controlling a narrative?  Saying officer-worn body cameras can obscure the truth?

Why not just release the videos and let the facts speak for themselves?  

Because DAs, cops and detectives never tamper with or withhold evidence or intimidate witnesses to interfere with an investigation of one of their own. Never happens. That’s why.

cincybearcat

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

PJNB said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html

I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."

Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.

I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?

Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be. 

It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.

Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.

He wasn't killed for j-walking. He was killed because he pulled a knife on the cop, he just happened to have j-walked just prior to doing so. I wouldn't J-walk in front of a cop, I know they give out tickets for that. 
The cop may have been able to deescalate the situation. But he definitely should not have pulled the knife either. If you're going to blame a cop for not deescalating a situation when faced with a knife, lets also blame the guy for pulling a knife on the cop and not say he was killed for j-walking. 

He was killed for jaywalking. The cop could have yelled at him to get out of the street. The cop could have driven away. The cop escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated, unless jaywalking is of such outrage and a threat to public safety that it demands a cop to respond? WTF? Did the guy pull a knife prior to the cop rolling up? Was he waving it around threatening people? Maybe he felt threatened by the cop and wanted to "stand his ground." Do black people not have a justifiable fear of the police, particularly when they just roll up and say "come here?" Just comply and he might have ended up dead as well, like the guy 3 years prior. Or Freddie Grey, etc. etc. etc.

I blame the cop for trying to stop someone for jay walking. Its the 21st century for crying out loud. Or is this just more of "broken windows" policing because if you don't stop jay walking, the perps will be raping your women and stealing your shit?

So police can't give tickets unless it warrants a deadly threat? The dude j-walked. The cop approached him, cops can give tickets for j-walking. They can give tickets for many other minor things like littering, loitering, bad parking job, etc. They are allowed to approach an individual with those infractions and give a ticket. That individual does not have a right to pull a knife on the cop for doing so.
Now the cop probably could have deescalated it, I have agreed to that. I dont understand why anyone would still say this cop goes around killing people for j-walking. Why is it a big issue to enforce pedestrian laws, you act like it s acivil rights violation to enforce j-walking laws. That is clearly not what happened. He happened to j-walk, then pulled a knife on a cop. He was killed for threatening a cop with a knife. 

And you continue to act as if the law is equally applied and that the consequences are the same for all offenders. Or maybe you believe white people don't jaywalk? Or that white people aren't treated differently by the police?

To the bold, apparently only if you're white.

I never said that. I'm just responding to the statement he was killed for j-walking. He wasn't. He j-walked, cop approached, he pulled a knife, was shot. The cop did not shoot him for j-walking. Had he not pulled the knife but j-walked 1000 times he'd still be alive. 
I did not comment on the law being equally applied or not. That is you putting words in my mouth for pointing out facts. Facts being he pulled a knife and that was why he was shot. 

After he pulled the knife, the cop had no other alternative? None? The cop put himself in the position of "fearing for his life." And a jaywalker was killed for it. The cop fucked up. Could have handled the situation a thousand different ways. There was no "threat." A fucking jaywalker. Dead. And if i were a black guy in CA, I'd certainly feel hunted and would want to protect myself from cops based on "facts."

I already said he probably could have handled it better. It was a pocket knife, there probably was a better option. I'm not sure if you intentionally ignore those comments, you seem to repeat the same questions a lot.
But according to your article, what was inappropriate about this? It was said (although I dont think by you) he was harassing the guy. Doesnt like like harassment to me.

Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."

While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.

The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.

In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires.

Police have the right to approach someone j-walking and cite them. All seems pretty normal and no reason to pull the knife. I don't understand why anyone would make excuses for someone pulling a knife for no reason. I haven't seen the video, but I would guess there probably were other options when faced with what was probably a small pocket knife. I never said the cop did everything right either. But lets also put some accountability on people pulling knives on cops for what appears to be a normal stop. 

If you're black. Its jaywalking. Drive on. Why harass the guy? Because he was black and he could. 

Where does it describe him as being harassed? Are cops not allowed to stop black people and give tickets? j-walking can get you a ticket. its not racist to give a black guy a ticket if he's j-walking.  But according to you police should not enforce any citations based on color? Giving a jaywalking ticket isnt harassing. Unless you can show me in the article where that happened. I quoted the majority of the exchange and it wasn't there. 

it can seem like harassment, and very well might be, as jaywalking isn't really a normally enforced law. it seems only dick cops do it. 

edit: at least not where I live. not once in my 46 years have I ever heard anyone say they've been ticketed for jaywalking. or even warned. 

I agree seems like a lame citation. But I have friends who’ve been ticketed and I still never jaywalk if there’s a cop in sight. If I did get a ticket for it one day I’d probably think the cop was a duck. I wouldn’t pull a knife on him though. And even still, I don’t see ticketing for it alone as harassment. 

In this case he wasnt even ticketed. He was just approaching him. Maybe he did harass him but there’s nothing in the article that even suggests he did. So I was just wondering why some described it as harassment when there was no mention of anything close to that.

It's over policing, which many see as harassment. Are you incapable of seeing things from anyone else's perspective besides the police? 

This isn't rocket science. 

I agree its a ticky-tack ticket, I said as much. But I disagree with several things being said about this case. What I disagree with;
He was not shot over j-walking. He pulled a knife, so people need ot stop saying he was shot over j-walking
Ticky-0tack tickets do not equal harassment. 

Do cops harass people? Ever? What would that look like, in your opinion?

Sure they have. There's been examples posted here before. 
But in the description of the video I see nothing that I would describe as harassment:

"Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."

While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.

The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.

In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires."

Which part exactly is harassment? Approaching someone for j-walking, that equals harassment? If that's your argument we'll just have to disagree and move on.

I didn’t ask for examples of cops harassing people in this thread, I asked you to illustrate what you would consider cop harassment and what it would look like if trying to stop someone for jaywalking isn’t harassment in your view.

I don’t know why some of us try here and in our outside lives with the “I’m not a racist but in this situation the cops were justified” racist crowd. It just becomes like the myth of Sisyphus pushing the rock and letting it roll back down again, just an endless punishment. I started posting here on amt during the beginning of quarantine and it boggles my mind how people can listen to this bands music and constantly side with state sanctioned violence against marginalized citizens. 

so everyone who disagrees with you is a racist now. ok. 

Yeah I was trying to understand what that statement meant.   

I'm all for changes in policing.  It is very clear that it is needed.  I do wonder if we are all truly willing to deal with what it means in the short term potentially.  Let's take the shooting in Columbus for example.  Let's say police don;t grab for their guns...they end up engaging and disarming the girl with a knife, but instead of no harm coming to the person she was attacking when she was shot, now that other person gets stabbed.  Are we ok with that?  Those situations are extremely difficult to navigate for me.

static111

gvn2fly1421 said:

Bentleyspop said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Here's the cop that wrote the above letter to LeBron. Very level-headed and smart guy. Just looking to start a dialogue between cops and the public....

https://youtu.be/_vgzUUwNKas

"But you posted a video from FauxNews"

How dare you?  I prefer to get my news from the Washington Post where they teach me how to film police encounters so I can "stay in control of the narrative".  How does this in any way help move the conversation along?

This is a good idea.
The more citizens filming cops being bad the better.
Imagine if that teenage girl hadn't stood her ground in Minneapolis. 

Absolutely, 100% with you.  But why use the language of controlling a narrative?  Saying officer-worn body cameras can obscure the truth?

Why not just release the videos and let the facts speak for themselves?  

Officers body cameras often “don’t work” and many times the footage released is a super cut to put out the PD side of things.  A running camera in the hands of a citizen with uncut footage is much more trustworthy.

static111

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

PJNB said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html

I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."

Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.

I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?

Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be. 

It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.

Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.

He wasn't killed for j-walking. He was killed because he pulled a knife on the cop, he just happened to have j-walked just prior to doing so. I wouldn't J-walk in front of a cop, I know they give out tickets for that. 
The cop may have been able to deescalate the situation. But he definitely should not have pulled the knife either. If you're going to blame a cop for not deescalating a situation when faced with a knife, lets also blame the guy for pulling a knife on the cop and not say he was killed for j-walking. 

He was killed for jaywalking. The cop could have yelled at him to get out of the street. The cop could have driven away. The cop escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated, unless jaywalking is of such outrage and a threat to public safety that it demands a cop to respond? WTF? Did the guy pull a knife prior to the cop rolling up? Was he waving it around threatening people? Maybe he felt threatened by the cop and wanted to "stand his ground." Do black people not have a justifiable fear of the police, particularly when they just roll up and say "come here?" Just comply and he might have ended up dead as well, like the guy 3 years prior. Or Freddie Grey, etc. etc. etc.

I blame the cop for trying to stop someone for jay walking. Its the 21st century for crying out loud. Or is this just more of "broken windows" policing because if you don't stop jay walking, the perps will be raping your women and stealing your shit?

So police can't give tickets unless it warrants a deadly threat? The dude j-walked. The cop approached him, cops can give tickets for j-walking. They can give tickets for many other minor things like littering, loitering, bad parking job, etc. They are allowed to approach an individual with those infractions and give a ticket. That individual does not have a right to pull a knife on the cop for doing so.
Now the cop probably could have deescalated it, I have agreed to that. I dont understand why anyone would still say this cop goes around killing people for j-walking. Why is it a big issue to enforce pedestrian laws, you act like it s acivil rights violation to enforce j-walking laws. That is clearly not what happened. He happened to j-walk, then pulled a knife on a cop. He was killed for threatening a cop with a knife. 

And you continue to act as if the law is equally applied and that the consequences are the same for all offenders. Or maybe you believe white people don't jaywalk? Or that white people aren't treated differently by the police?

To the bold, apparently only if you're white.

I never said that. I'm just responding to the statement he was killed for j-walking. He wasn't. He j-walked, cop approached, he pulled a knife, was shot. The cop did not shoot him for j-walking. Had he not pulled the knife but j-walked 1000 times he'd still be alive. 
I did not comment on the law being equally applied or not. That is you putting words in my mouth for pointing out facts. Facts being he pulled a knife and that was why he was shot. 

After he pulled the knife, the cop had no other alternative? None? The cop put himself in the position of "fearing for his life." And a jaywalker was killed for it. The cop fucked up. Could have handled the situation a thousand different ways. There was no "threat." A fucking jaywalker. Dead. And if i were a black guy in CA, I'd certainly feel hunted and would want to protect myself from cops based on "facts."

I already said he probably could have handled it better. It was a pocket knife, there probably was a better option. I'm not sure if you intentionally ignore those comments, you seem to repeat the same questions a lot.
But according to your article, what was inappropriate about this? It was said (although I dont think by you) he was harassing the guy. Doesnt like like harassment to me.

Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."

While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.

The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.

In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires.

Police have the right to approach someone j-walking and cite them. All seems pretty normal and no reason to pull the knife. I don't understand why anyone would make excuses for someone pulling a knife for no reason. I haven't seen the video, but I would guess there probably were other options when faced with what was probably a small pocket knife. I never said the cop did everything right either. But lets also put some accountability on people pulling knives on cops for what appears to be a normal stop. 

If you're black. Its jaywalking. Drive on. Why harass the guy? Because he was black and he could. 

Where does it describe him as being harassed? Are cops not allowed to stop black people and give tickets? j-walking can get you a ticket. its not racist to give a black guy a ticket if he's j-walking.  But according to you police should not enforce any citations based on color? Giving a jaywalking ticket isnt harassing. Unless you can show me in the article where that happened. I quoted the majority of the exchange and it wasn't there. 

it can seem like harassment, and very well might be, as jaywalking isn't really a normally enforced law. it seems only dick cops do it. 

edit: at least not where I live. not once in my 46 years have I ever heard anyone say they've been ticketed for jaywalking. or even warned. 

I agree seems like a lame citation. But I have friends who’ve been ticketed and I still never jaywalk if there’s a cop in sight. If I did get a ticket for it one day I’d probably think the cop was a duck. I wouldn’t pull a knife on him though. And even still, I don’t see ticketing for it alone as harassment. 

In this case he wasnt even ticketed. He was just approaching him. Maybe he did harass him but there’s nothing in the article that even suggests he did. So I was just wondering why some described it as harassment when there was no mention of anything close to that.

It's over policing, which many see as harassment. Are you incapable of seeing things from anyone else's perspective besides the police? 

This isn't rocket science. 

I agree its a ticky-tack ticket, I said as much. But I disagree with several things being said about this case. What I disagree with;
He was not shot over j-walking. He pulled a knife, so people need ot stop saying he was shot over j-walking
Ticky-0tack tickets do not equal harassment. 

Do cops harass people? Ever? What would that look like, in your opinion?

Sure they have. There's been examples posted here before. 
But in the description of the video I see nothing that I would describe as harassment:

"Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."

While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.

The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.

In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires."

Which part exactly is harassment? Approaching someone for j-walking, that equals harassment? If that's your argument we'll just have to disagree and move on.

I didn’t ask for examples of cops harassing people in this thread, I asked you to illustrate what you would consider cop harassment and what it would look like if trying to stop someone for jaywalking isn’t harassment in your view.

I don’t know why some of us try here and in our outside lives with the “I’m not a racist but in this situation the cops were justified” racist crowd. It just becomes like the myth of Sisyphus pushing the rock and letting it roll back down again, just an endless punishment. I started posting here on amt during the beginning of quarantine and it boggles my mind how people can listen to this bands music and constantly side with state sanctioned violence against marginalized citizens. 

so everyone who disagrees with you is a racist now. ok. 

Yeah I was trying to understand what that statement meant.   

I'm all for changes in policing.  It is very clear that it is needed.  I do wonder if we are all truly willing to deal with what it means in the short term potentially.  Let's take the shooting in Columbus for example.  Let's say police don;t grab for their guns...they end up engaging and disarming the girl with a knife, but instead of no harm coming to the person she was attacking when she was shot, now that other person gets stabbed.  Are we ok with that?  Those situations are extremely difficult to navigate for me.

Justifying killing certain black people over others is problematic, especially when we say stupid things like “why did he run” well do we or do we not live in a society where a black man is almost three times as likely as a white man to be killed by a cop, while only making up 13% of the population?  Do African Americans not get harsher and longer sentences for minor crimes than whites? The problem is the system of policing in America with deep roots in slavery, Jim Crow, good ol boy racism and false cultural narratives.  America wants to pretend it doesn’t have a racism problem and we need to address that especially when it comes to policing and incarceration.  Until the law is applied fairly and equally to all and we have a better system in place, the idea of saying the police killing of any black person is justified is a non starter.  Justifying the police killing one African American over another really has the same energy as saying, well that slave didn’t deserve to get whipped but this other slave had a justifiable whipping, while not realizing the problem is slavery, not an individual enslaved persons behavior.  It’s hard to deal with the justifiers of a racist police system and that justifying a racist police system makes you racist.

cincybearcat

static111 said:

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

PJNB said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html

I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."

Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.

I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?

Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be. 

It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.

Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.

He wasn't killed for j-walking. He was killed because he pulled a knife on the cop, he just happened to have j-walked just prior to doing so. I wouldn't J-walk in front of a cop, I know they give out tickets for that. 
The cop may have been able to deescalate the situation. But he definitely should not have pulled the knife either. If you're going to blame a cop for not deescalating a situation when faced with a knife, lets also blame the guy for pulling a knife on the cop and not say he was killed for j-walking. 

He was killed for jaywalking. The cop could have yelled at him to get out of the street. The cop could have driven away. The cop escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated, unless jaywalking is of such outrage and a threat to public safety that it demands a cop to respond? WTF? Did the guy pull a knife prior to the cop rolling up? Was he waving it around threatening people? Maybe he felt threatened by the cop and wanted to "stand his ground." Do black people not have a justifiable fear of the police, particularly when they just roll up and say "come here?" Just comply and he might have ended up dead as well, like the guy 3 years prior. Or Freddie Grey, etc. etc. etc.

I blame the cop for trying to stop someone for jay walking. Its the 21st century for crying out loud. Or is this just more of "broken windows" policing because if you don't stop jay walking, the perps will be raping your women and stealing your shit?

So police can't give tickets unless it warrants a deadly threat? The dude j-walked. The cop approached him, cops can give tickets for j-walking. They can give tickets for many other minor things like littering, loitering, bad parking job, etc. They are allowed to approach an individual with those infractions and give a ticket. That individual does not have a right to pull a knife on the cop for doing so.
Now the cop probably could have deescalated it, I have agreed to that. I dont understand why anyone would still say this cop goes around killing people for j-walking. Why is it a big issue to enforce pedestrian laws, you act like it s acivil rights violation to enforce j-walking laws. That is clearly not what happened. He happened to j-walk, then pulled a knife on a cop. He was killed for threatening a cop with a knife. 

And you continue to act as if the law is equally applied and that the consequences are the same for all offenders. Or maybe you believe white people don't jaywalk? Or that white people aren't treated differently by the police?

To the bold, apparently only if you're white.

I never said that. I'm just responding to the statement he was killed for j-walking. He wasn't. He j-walked, cop approached, he pulled a knife, was shot. The cop did not shoot him for j-walking. Had he not pulled the knife but j-walked 1000 times he'd still be alive. 
I did not comment on the law being equally applied or not. That is you putting words in my mouth for pointing out facts. Facts being he pulled a knife and that was why he was shot. 

After he pulled the knife, the cop had no other alternative? None? The cop put himself in the position of "fearing for his life." And a jaywalker was killed for it. The cop fucked up. Could have handled the situation a thousand different ways. There was no "threat." A fucking jaywalker. Dead. And if i were a black guy in CA, I'd certainly feel hunted and would want to protect myself from cops based on "facts."

I already said he probably could have handled it better. It was a pocket knife, there probably was a better option. I'm not sure if you intentionally ignore those comments, you seem to repeat the same questions a lot.
But according to your article, what was inappropriate about this? It was said (although I dont think by you) he was harassing the guy. Doesnt like like harassment to me.

Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."

While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.

The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.

In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires.

Police have the right to approach someone j-walking and cite them. All seems pretty normal and no reason to pull the knife. I don't understand why anyone would make excuses for someone pulling a knife for no reason. I haven't seen the video, but I would guess there probably were other options when faced with what was probably a small pocket knife. I never said the cop did everything right either. But lets also put some accountability on people pulling knives on cops for what appears to be a normal stop. 

If you're black. Its jaywalking. Drive on. Why harass the guy? Because he was black and he could. 

Where does it describe him as being harassed? Are cops not allowed to stop black people and give tickets? j-walking can get you a ticket. its not racist to give a black guy a ticket if he's j-walking.  But according to you police should not enforce any citations based on color? Giving a jaywalking ticket isnt harassing. Unless you can show me in the article where that happened. I quoted the majority of the exchange and it wasn't there. 

it can seem like harassment, and very well might be, as jaywalking isn't really a normally enforced law. it seems only dick cops do it. 

edit: at least not where I live. not once in my 46 years have I ever heard anyone say they've been ticketed for jaywalking. or even warned. 

I agree seems like a lame citation. But I have friends who’ve been ticketed and I still never jaywalk if there’s a cop in sight. If I did get a ticket for it one day I’d probably think the cop was a duck. I wouldn’t pull a knife on him though. And even still, I don’t see ticketing for it alone as harassment. 

In this case he wasnt even ticketed. He was just approaching him. Maybe he did harass him but there’s nothing in the article that even suggests he did. So I was just wondering why some described it as harassment when there was no mention of anything close to that.

It's over policing, which many see as harassment. Are you incapable of seeing things from anyone else's perspective besides the police? 

This isn't rocket science. 

I agree its a ticky-tack ticket, I said as much. But I disagree with several things being said about this case. What I disagree with;
He was not shot over j-walking. He pulled a knife, so people need ot stop saying he was shot over j-walking
Ticky-0tack tickets do not equal harassment. 

Do cops harass people? Ever? What would that look like, in your opinion?

Sure they have. There's been examples posted here before. 
But in the description of the video I see nothing that I would describe as harassment:

"Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."

While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.

The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.

In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires."

Which part exactly is harassment? Approaching someone for j-walking, that equals harassment? If that's your argument we'll just have to disagree and move on.

I didn’t ask for examples of cops harassing people in this thread, I asked you to illustrate what you would consider cop harassment and what it would look like if trying to stop someone for jaywalking isn’t harassment in your view.

I don’t know why some of us try here and in our outside lives with the “I’m not a racist but in this situation the cops were justified” racist crowd. It just becomes like the myth of Sisyphus pushing the rock and letting it roll back down again, just an endless punishment. I started posting here on amt during the beginning of quarantine and it boggles my mind how people can listen to this bands music and constantly side with state sanctioned violence against marginalized citizens. 

so everyone who disagrees with you is a racist now. ok. 

Yeah I was trying to understand what that statement meant.   

I'm all for changes in policing.  It is very clear that it is needed.  I do wonder if we are all truly willing to deal with what it means in the short term potentially.  Let's take the shooting in Columbus for example.  Let's say police don;t grab for their guns...they end up engaging and disarming the girl with a knife, but instead of no harm coming to the person she was attacking when she was shot, now that other person gets stabbed.  Are we ok with that?  Those situations are extremely difficult to navigate for me.

Justifying killing certain black people over others is problematic, especially when we say stupid things like “why did he run” well do we or do we not live in a society where a black man is almost three times as likely as a white man to be killed by a cop, while only making up 13% of the population?  Do African Americans not get harsher and longer sentences for minor crimes than whites? The problem is the system of policing in America with deep roots in slavery, Jim Crow, good ol boy racism and false cultural narratives.  America wants to pretend it doesn’t have a racism problem and we need to address that especially when it comes to policing and incarceration.  Until the law is applied fairly and equally to all and we have a better system in place, the idea of saying the police killing of any black person is justified is a non starter.  Justifying the police killing one African American over another really has the same energy as saying, well that slave didn’t deserve to get whipped but this other slave had a justifiable whipping, while not realizing the problem is slavery, not an individual enslaved persons behavior.  It’s hard to deal with the justifiers of a racist police system and that justifying a racist police system makes you racist.

Justifying killing a person with a knife over a person about to be stabbed. 

I understand your overall points and very valid. I do not think it just applies blindly whenever a cop and an African American are involved in an altercation. 

Comparing it to slavery is a weird statement to me. And I do not fully understand the point of your last sentence. Is this directed at me or is this a general statement?

static111

@cincybearcat

“Comparing it to slavery is a weird statement to me. And I do not fully understand the point of your last sentence. Is this directed at me or is this a general statement?“

couldn’t get the quote function to work. Not directed at you, directed at the comments in general. Until the system is completely overhauled and applied equally and cops are held accountable  and trained not to escalate situations by trying to gain compliance by force, to me any justification of one killing over the other is just ludicrous.  The comparison of American policing to slavery is that both are things inherently designed to keep Black people down.  Certain people spend so much time and energy
trying to immediately justify the actions of officers, rather than spending that time and energy on something positive like reforming or recreating the current system.  So for me the behavior of justifying an action in a broken system rather than being critical of the system itself comes across, especially when we are talking about police killing Black Americans, with the same energy of someone 200 years ago justifying one whipping over another but not realizing that the real problem was the system that allowed the whipping in the first place.

static111

From our wonderful police departments officers union. ...

HughFreakingDillon

static111 said:

cincybearcat said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Merkin Baller said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

PJNB said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html

I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."

Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.

I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?

Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be. 

It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.

Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.

He wasn't killed for j-walking. He was killed because he pulled a knife on the cop, he just happened to have j-walked just prior to doing so. I wouldn't J-walk in front of a cop, I know they give out tickets for that. 
The cop may have been able to deescalate the situation. But he definitely should not have pulled the knife either. If you're going to blame a cop for not deescalating a situation when faced with a knife, lets also blame the guy for pulling a knife on the cop and not say he was killed for j-walking. 

He was killed for jaywalking. The cop could have yelled at him to get out of the street. The cop could have driven away. The cop escalated a situation that didn't need to be escalated, unless jaywalking is of such outrage and a threat to public safety that it demands a cop to respond? WTF? Did the guy pull a knife prior to the cop rolling up? Was he waving it around threatening people? Maybe he felt threatened by the cop and wanted to "stand his ground." Do black people not have a justifiable fear of the police, particularly when they just roll up and say "come here?" Just comply and he might have ended up dead as well, like the guy 3 years prior. Or Freddie Grey, etc. etc. etc.

I blame the cop for trying to stop someone for jay walking. Its the 21st century for crying out loud. Or is this just more of "broken windows" policing because if you don't stop jay walking, the perps will be raping your women and stealing your shit?

So police can't give tickets unless it warrants a deadly threat? The dude j-walked. The cop approached him, cops can give tickets for j-walking. They can give tickets for many other minor things like littering, loitering, bad parking job, etc. They are allowed to approach an individual with those infractions and give a ticket. That individual does not have a right to pull a knife on the cop for doing so.
Now the cop probably could have deescalated it, I have agreed to that. I dont understand why anyone would still say this cop goes around killing people for j-walking. Why is it a big issue to enforce pedestrian laws, you act like it s acivil rights violation to enforce j-walking laws. That is clearly not what happened. He happened to j-walk, then pulled a knife on a cop. He was killed for threatening a cop with a knife. 

And you continue to act as if the law is equally applied and that the consequences are the same for all offenders. Or maybe you believe white people don't jaywalk? Or that white people aren't treated differently by the police?

To the bold, apparently only if you're white.

I never said that. I'm just responding to the statement he was killed for j-walking. He wasn't. He j-walked, cop approached, he pulled a knife, was shot. The cop did not shoot him for j-walking. Had he not pulled the knife but j-walked 1000 times he'd still be alive. 
I did not comment on the law being equally applied or not. That is you putting words in my mouth for pointing out facts. Facts being he pulled a knife and that was why he was shot. 

After he pulled the knife, the cop had no other alternative? None? The cop put himself in the position of "fearing for his life." And a jaywalker was killed for it. The cop fucked up. Could have handled the situation a thousand different ways. There was no "threat." A fucking jaywalker. Dead. And if i were a black guy in CA, I'd certainly feel hunted and would want to protect myself from cops based on "facts."

I already said he probably could have handled it better. It was a pocket knife, there probably was a better option. I'm not sure if you intentionally ignore those comments, you seem to repeat the same questions a lot.
But according to your article, what was inappropriate about this? It was said (although I dont think by you) he was harassing the guy. Doesnt like like harassment to me.

Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."

While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.

The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.

In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires.

Police have the right to approach someone j-walking and cite them. All seems pretty normal and no reason to pull the knife. I don't understand why anyone would make excuses for someone pulling a knife for no reason. I haven't seen the video, but I would guess there probably were other options when faced with what was probably a small pocket knife. I never said the cop did everything right either. But lets also put some accountability on people pulling knives on cops for what appears to be a normal stop. 

If you're black. Its jaywalking. Drive on. Why harass the guy? Because he was black and he could. 

Where does it describe him as being harassed? Are cops not allowed to stop black people and give tickets? j-walking can get you a ticket. its not racist to give a black guy a ticket if he's j-walking.  But according to you police should not enforce any citations based on color? Giving a jaywalking ticket isnt harassing. Unless you can show me in the article where that happened. I quoted the majority of the exchange and it wasn't there. 

it can seem like harassment, and very well might be, as jaywalking isn't really a normally enforced law. it seems only dick cops do it. 

edit: at least not where I live. not once in my 46 years have I ever heard anyone say they've been ticketed for jaywalking. or even warned. 

I agree seems like a lame citation. But I have friends who’ve been ticketed and I still never jaywalk if there’s a cop in sight. If I did get a ticket for it one day I’d probably think the cop was a duck. I wouldn’t pull a knife on him though. And even still, I don’t see ticketing for it alone as harassment. 

In this case he wasnt even ticketed. He was just approaching him. Maybe he did harass him but there’s nothing in the article that even suggests he did. So I was just wondering why some described it as harassment when there was no mention of anything close to that.

It's over policing, which many see as harassment. Are you incapable of seeing things from anyone else's perspective besides the police? 

This isn't rocket science. 

I agree its a ticky-tack ticket, I said as much. But I disagree with several things being said about this case. What I disagree with;
He was not shot over j-walking. He pulled a knife, so people need ot stop saying he was shot over j-walking
Ticky-0tack tickets do not equal harassment. 

Do cops harass people? Ever? What would that look like, in your opinion?

Sure they have. There's been examples posted here before. 
But in the description of the video I see nothing that I would describe as harassment:

"Danville Police said Hall approached Wilson on March 11 and tried to talk to him, but "the subject pulled out a folding knife and then opened it."

While Hall ordered Wilson to drop the knife several times, Wilson "advanced toward the officer," and Hall discharged his weapon, police said.

The new bodycam video shows the officer asking Wilson to "come here" and Wilson refusing to do so, asking the officer, "who are you?" According to the video, Hall tells Wilson he's jaywalking and approaches him. Wilson steps back and tells Hall not to touch him, before he is seen pulling out a knife, the video shows.

In the video, Hall tells Wilson to drop the knife and Wilson says, "kill me," before Hall fires."

Which part exactly is harassment? Approaching someone for j-walking, that equals harassment? If that's your argument we'll just have to disagree and move on.

I didn’t ask for examples of cops harassing people in this thread, I asked you to illustrate what you would consider cop harassment and what it would look like if trying to stop someone for jaywalking isn’t harassment in your view.

I don’t know why some of us try here and in our outside lives with the “I’m not a racist but in this situation the cops were justified” racist crowd. It just becomes like the myth of Sisyphus pushing the rock and letting it roll back down again, just an endless punishment. I started posting here on amt during the beginning of quarantine and it boggles my mind how people can listen to this bands music and constantly side with state sanctioned violence against marginalized citizens. 

so everyone who disagrees with you is a racist now. ok. 

Yeah I was trying to understand what that statement meant.   

I'm all for changes in policing.  It is very clear that it is needed.  I do wonder if we are all truly willing to deal with what it means in the short term potentially.  Let's take the shooting in Columbus for example.  Let's say police don;t grab for their guns...they end up engaging and disarming the girl with a knife, but instead of no harm coming to the person she was attacking when she was shot, now that other person gets stabbed.  Are we ok with that?  Those situations are extremely difficult to navigate for me.

Justifying killing certain black people over others is problematic, especially when we say stupid things like “why did he run” well do we or do we not live in a society where a black man is almost three times as likely as a white man to be killed by a cop, while only making up 13% of the population?  Do African Americans not get harsher and longer sentences for minor crimes than whites? The problem is the system of policing in America with deep roots in slavery, Jim Crow, good ol boy racism and false cultural narratives.  America wants to pretend it doesn’t have a racism problem and we need to address that especially when it comes to policing and incarceration.  Until the law is applied fairly and equally to all and we have a better system in place, the idea of saying the police killing of any black person is justified is a non starter.  Justifying the police killing one African American over another really has the same energy as saying, well that slave didn’t deserve to get whipped but this other slave had a justifiable whipping, while not realizing the problem is slavery, not an individual enslaved persons behavior.  It’s hard to deal with the justifiers of a racist police system and that justifying a racist police system makes you racist.

applying a blanket "if you disagree with this statement, you are racist" is nonsense. and a "non starter". I judge each case based on the merits of the case, not if the person was black or not. that's just absurd. that would be akin to saying every single black person on trial should automatically be found not guilty until the system is fixed. 

tempo_n_groove

static111 said:

From our wonderful police departments officers union. ...

I have zero problems w this.  Escalation in a situation is bad yet people don't think it plays a role in what made the outcome.

tempo_n_groove

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

Justifying killing certain black people over others is problematic, especially when we say stupid things like “why did he run” well do we or do we not live in a society where a black man is almost three times as likely as a white man to be killed by a cop, while only making up 13% of the population?  Do African Americans not get harsher and longer sentences for minor crimes than whites? The problem is the system of policing in America with deep roots in slavery, Jim Crow, good ol boy racism and false cultural narratives.  America wants to pretend it doesn’t have a racism problem and we need to address that especially when it comes to policing and incarceration.  Until the law is applied fairly and equally to all and we have a better system in place, the idea of saying the police killing of any black person is justified is a non starter.  Justifying the police killing one African American over another really has the same energy as saying, well that slave didn’t deserve to get whipped but this other slave had a justifiable whipping, while not realizing the problem is slavery, not an individual enslaved persons behavior.  It’s hard to deal with the justifiers of a racist police system and that justifying a racist police system makes you racist.

applying a blanket "if you disagree with this statement, you are racist" is nonsense. and a "non starter". I judge each case based on the merits of the case, not if the person was black or not. that's just absurd. that would be akin to saying every single black person on trial should automatically be found not guilty until the system is fixed. 

You're a racist for not seeing color.

cincybearcat

static111 said:

@cincybearcat

“Comparing it to slavery is a weird statement to me. And I do not fully understand the point of your last sentence. Is this directed at me or is this a general statement?“

couldn’t get the quote function to work. Not directed at you, directed at the comments in general. Until the system is completely overhauled and applied equally and cops are held accountable  and trained not to escalate situations by trying to gain compliance by force, to me any justification of one killing over the other is just ludicrous.  The comparison of American policing to slavery is that both are things inherently designed to keep Black people down.  Certain people spend so much time and energy
trying to immediately justify the actions of officers, rather than spending that time and energy on something positive like reforming or recreating the current system.  So for me the behavior of justifying an action in a broken system rather than being critical of the system itself comes across, especially when we are talking about police killing Black Americans, with the same energy of someone 200 years ago justifying one whipping over another but not realizing that the real problem was the system that allowed the whipping in the first place.

Ok, thanks for the clarification.  Yes, biased policing certainly is designed to keep people in their place.  I think it's very fair to discuss the system, etc in all of these instances.  What I do not agree with is always wanting the individual police officer to be fired, convicted, and jailed.  Sometimes, they are following their training.  So - I could see how an individual police officer avoids charges.  Except in the extreme cases (like George Floyd), the discussion should be far more about the system and a lot less about the specific officer involved.  

cincybearcat

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

Justifying killing certain black people over others is problematic, especially when we say stupid things like “why did he run” well do we or do we not live in a society where a black man is almost three times as likely as a white man to be killed by a cop, while only making up 13% of the population?  Do African Americans not get harsher and longer sentences for minor crimes than whites? The problem is the system of policing in America with deep roots in slavery, Jim Crow, good ol boy racism and false cultural narratives.  America wants to pretend it doesn’t have a racism problem and we need to address that especially when it comes to policing and incarceration.  Until the law is applied fairly and equally to all and we have a better system in place, the idea of saying the police killing of any black person is justified is a non starter.  Justifying the police killing one African American over another really has the same energy as saying, well that slave didn’t deserve to get whipped but this other slave had a justifiable whipping, while not realizing the problem is slavery, not an individual enslaved persons behavior.  It’s hard to deal with the justifiers of a racist police system and that justifying a racist police system makes you racist.

applying a blanket "if you disagree with this statement, you are racist" is nonsense. and a "non starter". I judge each case based on the merits of the case, not if the person was black or not. that's just absurd. that would be akin to saying every single black person on trial should automatically be found not guilty until the system is fixed. 

You're a racist for not seeing color.

Well you have to see color to understand the full case.  It is part of it.  You cannot ignore it.

oftenreading

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

Justifying killing certain black people over others is problematic, especially when we say stupid things like “why did he run” well do we or do we not live in a society where a black man is almost three times as likely as a white man to be killed by a cop, while only making up 13% of the population?  Do African Americans not get harsher and longer sentences for minor crimes than whites? The problem is the system of policing in America with deep roots in slavery, Jim Crow, good ol boy racism and false cultural narratives.  America wants to pretend it doesn’t have a racism problem and we need to address that especially when it comes to policing and incarceration.  Until the law is applied fairly and equally to all and we have a better system in place, the idea of saying the police killing of any black person is justified is a non starter.  Justifying the police killing one African American over another really has the same energy as saying, well that slave didn’t deserve to get whipped but this other slave had a justifiable whipping, while not realizing the problem is slavery, not an individual enslaved persons behavior.  It’s hard to deal with the justifiers of a racist police system and that justifying a racist police system makes you racist.

applying a blanket "if you disagree with this statement, you are racist" is nonsense. and a "non starter". I judge each case based on the merits of the case, not if the person was black or not. that's just absurd. that would be akin to saying every single black person on trial should automatically be found not guilty until the system is fixed. 

You're a racist for not seeing color.

The "I don't see colour" phrase is such total bs. There are reams of data showing that yes, all humans "see colour", right from infancy. We all have biases, both conscious and unconscious, about a whole range of traits, including unfortunately skin colour. The issue is what we choose to do about those biases and how much effort we put into becoming aware and mindful. Those who talk about not "seeing colour" are likely either lacking in self awareness or aren't willing to put in the effort to recognize and work on them. 

tempo_n_groove

cincybearcat said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

Justifying killing certain black people over others is problematic, especially when we say stupid things like “why did he run” well do we or do we not live in a society where a black man is almost three times as likely as a white man to be killed by a cop, while only making up 13% of the population?  Do African Americans not get harsher and longer sentences for minor crimes than whites? The problem is the system of policing in America with deep roots in slavery, Jim Crow, good ol boy racism and false cultural narratives.  America wants to pretend it doesn’t have a racism problem and we need to address that especially when it comes to policing and incarceration.  Until the law is applied fairly and equally to all and we have a better system in place, the idea of saying the police killing of any black person is justified is a non starter.  Justifying the police killing one African American over another really has the same energy as saying, well that slave didn’t deserve to get whipped but this other slave had a justifiable whipping, while not realizing the problem is slavery, not an individual enslaved persons behavior.  It’s hard to deal with the justifiers of a racist police system and that justifying a racist police system makes you racist.

applying a blanket "if you disagree with this statement, you are racist" is nonsense. and a "non starter". I judge each case based on the merits of the case, not if the person was black or not. that's just absurd. that would be akin to saying every single black person on trial should automatically be found not guilty until the system is fixed. 

You're a racist for not seeing color.

Well you have to see color to understand the full case.  It is part of it.  You cannot ignore it.

oftenreading said:

tempo_n_groove said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

static111 said:

Justifying killing certain black people over others is problematic, especially when we say stupid things like “why did he run” well do we or do we not live in a society where a black man is almost three times as likely as a white man to be killed by a cop, while only making up 13% of the population?  Do African Americans not get harsher and longer sentences for minor crimes than whites? The problem is the system of policing in America with deep roots in slavery, Jim Crow, good ol boy racism and false cultural narratives.  America wants to pretend it doesn’t have a racism problem and we need to address that especially when it comes to policing and incarceration.  Until the law is applied fairly and equally to all and we have a better system in place, the idea of saying the police killing of any black person is justified is a non starter.  Justifying the police killing one African American over another really has the same energy as saying, well that slave didn’t deserve to get whipped but this other slave had a justifiable whipping, while not realizing the problem is slavery, not an individual enslaved persons behavior.  It’s hard to deal with the justifiers of a racist police system and that justifying a racist police system makes you racist.

applying a blanket "if you disagree with this statement, you are racist" is nonsense. and a "non starter". I judge each case based on the merits of the case, not if the person was black or not. that's just absurd. that would be akin to saying every single black person on trial should automatically be found not guilty until the system is fixed. 

You're a racist for not seeing color.

The "I don't see colour" phrase is such total bs. There are reams of data showing that yes, all humans "see colour", right from infancy. We all have biases, both conscious and unconscious, about a whole range of traits, including unfortunately skin colour. The issue is what we choose to do about those biases and how much effort we put into becoming aware and mindful. Those who talk about not "seeing colour" are likely either lacking in self awareness or aren't willing to put in the effort to recognize and work on them. 

It was meant as a joke.

Trying to explain yourself nowadays and saying "I don't see color" and saying that they are lacking and not seeing it is just dumb to me.

How else do you explain yourself tactfully that would make you happy that a persons skin color wasn't why you came up w the decision you did?  Honest question.  I proposed this to someone else and they didn't have an answer but dismissed what I said.

CM189191

gvn2fly1421 said:

Bentleyspop said:

gvn2fly1421 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Here's the cop that wrote the above letter to LeBron. Very level-headed and smart guy. Just looking to start a dialogue between cops and the public....

https://youtu.be/_vgzUUwNKas

"But you posted a video from FauxNews"

How dare you?  I prefer to get my news from the Washington Post where they teach me how to film police encounters so I can "stay in control of the narrative".  How does this in any way help move the conversation along?

This is a good idea.
The more citizens filming cops being bad the better.
Imagine if that teenage girl hadn't stood her ground in Minneapolis. 

Absolutely, 100% with you.  But why use the language of controlling a narrative?  Saying officer-worn body cameras can obscure the truth?

Why not just release the videos and let the facts speak for themselves?  

What controlling the narrative might look like:

https://pasquotankgop.com/andrew-browns-arrest-record-and-legacy/

Halifax2TheMax

Ummmm, sure.

Disclaimer: The statements posted here do not necessarily reflect the views of the entire Pasquotank GOP, Pasquotank Republican Party, or all Republicans in Pasquotank County.