Police abuse

CM189191

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

static111 said:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/virginia-man-isaiah-brown-shot-by-sheriffs-deputy-after-calling-911-for-help/2649178/

"State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

This is unacceptable

wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?

I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.

There's nothing that stops the local convenient store from releasing their security footage.

There's nothing that stops the local onlooker from releasing their camera-phone footage.

Why is the police body-cam footage any different? (hint: because it's incriminating)

Evidence is evidence.  More is better.  Sooner is better.

mace1229

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

static111 said:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/virginia-man-isaiah-brown-shot-by-sheriffs-deputy-after-calling-911-for-help/2649178/

"State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

This is unacceptable

wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?

I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.

There's nothing that stops the local convenient store from releasing their security footage.

There's nothing that stops the local onlooker from releasing their camera-phone footage.

Why is the police body-cam footage any different? (hint: because it's incriminating)

Evidence is evidence.  More is better.  Sooner is better.

All that is true. But just because others do it that makes it okay? And not every instance has other video. I do think it should be made public for transparency. I just don’t think it should happen before an investigation or trial.

mace1229

Ledbetterman10 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

static111 said:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/virginia-man-isaiah-brown-shot-by-sheriffs-deputy-after-calling-911-for-help/2649178/

"State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

This is unacceptable

wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?

I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.

Yeah but it does bring on skepticism to not release it. The Columbus, OH police released the bodycam of the girl with a knife being shot as a way to circumvent false narratives. Like "Here it is, she was about to stab the girl in the pink." Here, who knows what happened?

You think the stabbing is a false narrative? Looks to me like she was about 0.5 seconds away from stabbing that girl with a 6” knife. I don’t know how a video created a false narrative. Video should do the opposite, you can see for yourself and make your own decision.

Ledbetterman10

mace1229 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

static111 said:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/virginia-man-isaiah-brown-shot-by-sheriffs-deputy-after-calling-911-for-help/2649178/

"State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

This is unacceptable

wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?

I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.

Yeah but it does bring on skepticism to not release it. The Columbus, OH police released the bodycam of the girl with a knife being shot as a way to circumvent false narratives. Like "Here it is, she was about to stab the girl in the pink." Here, who knows what happened?

You think the stabbing is a false narrative? Looks to me like she was about 0.5 seconds away from stabbing that girl with a 6” knife. I don’t know how a video created a false narrative. Video should do the opposite, you can see for yourself and make your own decision.

No. I'm saying they put out the video so that there wouldn't be false narratives.

mace1229

Ledbetterman10 said:

mace1229 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

static111 said:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/virginia-man-isaiah-brown-shot-by-sheriffs-deputy-after-calling-911-for-help/2649178/

"State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

This is unacceptable

wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?

I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.

Yeah but it does bring on skepticism to not release it. The Columbus, OH police released the bodycam of the girl with a knife being shot as a way to circumvent false narratives. Like "Here it is, she was about to stab the girl in the pink." Here, who knows what happened?

You think the stabbing is a false narrative? Looks to me like she was about 0.5 seconds away from stabbing that girl with a 6” knife. I don’t know how a video created a false narrative. Video should do the opposite, you can see for yourself and make your own decision.

No. I'm saying they put out the video so that there wouldn't be false narratives.

Ok, yeah I agree. I’m assuming the higher ups saw the video, saw the shooting likely saved another girls life. Decided charges likely would not be filed and quickly released it for the reason you just said.
Still didn’t stop the false narratives though. By that I mean many media sources downplaying a 6” knife like that’s part of every schoolyard fight every day.

Ledbetterman10

mace1229 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mace1229 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

static111 said:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/virginia-man-isaiah-brown-shot-by-sheriffs-deputy-after-calling-911-for-help/2649178/

"State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

This is unacceptable

wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?

I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.

Yeah but it does bring on skepticism to not release it. The Columbus, OH police released the bodycam of the girl with a knife being shot as a way to circumvent false narratives. Like "Here it is, she was about to stab the girl in the pink." Here, who knows what happened?

You think the stabbing is a false narrative? Looks to me like she was about 0.5 seconds away from stabbing that girl with a 6” knife. I don’t know how a video created a false narrative. Video should do the opposite, you can see for yourself and make your own decision.

No. I'm saying they put out the video so that there wouldn't be false narratives.

Ok, yeah I agree. I’m assuming the higher ups saw the video, saw the shooting likely saved another girls life. Decided charges likely would not be filed and quickly released it for the reason you just said.
Still didn’t stop the false narratives though. By that I mean many media sources downplaying a 6” knife like that’s part of every schoolyard fight every day.

Oh yeah, I've seen some of that coverage and it's been ridiculous. 

Halifax2TheMax

Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html

mace1229

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html

I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."

CM189191

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

static111 said:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/virginia-man-isaiah-brown-shot-by-sheriffs-deputy-after-calling-911-for-help/2649178/

"State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

This is unacceptable

wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?

I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.

There's nothing that stops the local convenient store from releasing their security footage.

There's nothing that stops the local onlooker from releasing their camera-phone footage.

Why is the police body-cam footage any different? (hint: because it's incriminating)

Evidence is evidence.  More is better.  Sooner is better.

All that is true. But just because others do it that makes it okay? And not every instance has other video. I do think it should be made public for transparency. I just don’t think it should happen before an investigation or trial.

Why not?

People are able to craft their own opinions, are they not?

What does it matter if it's released right away?

By not releasing it, it gives police a chance to lie like they did in the Floyd case. To craft their own narrative. To build their defense and sway the jury before trial starts.

All police body cam footage should be released immediately. There's absolutely no reason not to. 

PJNB

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

CM189191 said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

static111 said:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/virginia-man-isaiah-brown-shot-by-sheriffs-deputy-after-calling-911-for-help/2649178/

"State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

This is unacceptable

wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?

I don't agree with always releasing the body cam right away. Actually, I think it should be delayed until after an investigation. If they don't decide to press charges, then release it to publicly show why. If they do decide to press charges, dont release it until after the trial. You want as impartial of a jury as you can get. The more video, the more media attention the more difficult that is, the more likely for appeals.

There's nothing that stops the local convenient store from releasing their security footage.

There's nothing that stops the local onlooker from releasing their camera-phone footage.

Why is the police body-cam footage any different? (hint: because it's incriminating)

Evidence is evidence.  More is better.  Sooner is better.

All that is true. But just because others do it that makes it okay? And not every instance has other video. I do think it should be made public for transparency. I just don’t think it should happen before an investigation or trial.

Why not?

People are able to craft their own opinions, are they not?

What does it matter if it's released right away?

By not releasing it, it gives police a chance to lie like they did in the Floyd case. To craft their own narrative. To build their defense and sway the jury before trial starts.

All police body cam footage should be released immediately. There's absolutely no reason not to. 

100% agree.  The protection of bad cops needs to stop now. Also Floyds death was caught on video by a bystander. Who knows what would have happened if they were not there with a crowd of people witnessing and released the footage. I would bet that this would have been the end of it. 

cincybearcat

HughFreakingDillon said:

CM189191 said:

static111 said:

https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/northern-virginia/virginia-man-isaiah-brown-shot-by-sheriffs-deputy-after-calling-911-for-help/2649178/

"State police confirmed that they have body camera footage of the shooting but said they will not release it publicly."

This is unacceptable

wtf? isn't that the whole point of body cam footage?

Ummm not necessarily. I would imagine the biggest reason is for the department.  

That said - to NEVER release it you would have to have some very solid reasons I would think. But I could certainly see the link I not having access for a while 

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html

I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."

Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.

mace1229

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html

I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."

Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.

I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?

PJNB

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html

I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."

Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.

I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?

Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be. 

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html

I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."

Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.

I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?

Yes, but it’s also a bad idea to harass someone for jay walking or to use it as an excuse to engage someone. It’s like looking for a reason to have a confrontation so you can pad your arrest numbers. Did he say “kill me?” Why didn’t he tase the guy? Why is it always shoot first, then remember the three previous steps of escalation of violence protocol? Did the cop walk right up to him to engage him and invade his personal space? I thought cops were trained to maintain a safe distance upon initial engagement? Did he call for back up? At what point in the confrontation did he activate his body camera? Sure, all the responsibility of police/civilian interactions falls on the civilian. Just comply. 

Nine shots to kill a “suspicious person,” sounds to me like this cop had a lot of self control issues.

Hobbes

PJNB said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html

I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."

Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.

I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?

Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be. 

I've spoken with people who attempted suicide by cop. They were grateful the cops opted for more appropriate measures to subdue them as opposed fulfilling their wishes.

tbergs

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html

I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."

Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.

Yikes, I don't know why anyone would bother defending this shitty cop. It's unfortunate the department did not do something about him after the 2018 shooting that already seemed sketchy. This seems like a cop who dabbles in the gray areas of use of force and found 2 instances where he could be "justified" for his actions even though both seem like lethal force was not necessary. These are the types of cops who need to be removed from the job. I don't have an issue with a police officer enforcing or making contact with people violating laws, but their approach to the situation plays as much of a part in how it ends as the accused actions in response to them. There is a world of difference between responding to a violent incident in progress like we saw in OH and a cop initiating contact during a non-violent law violation. That doesn't mean there can't be a reason for justified lethal force, but these situations don't seem that way at all.

mace1229

PJNB said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html

I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."

Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.

I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?

Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be. 

It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.

Halifax2TheMax

mace1229 said:

PJNB said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html

I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."

Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.

I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?

Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be. 

It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.

Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.

mace1229

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

PJNB said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mace1229 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Can’t wait to hear the justification for this guy and how he did everything right. They should have just complied.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/04/23/us/andrew-hall-california-shootings-multiple-charges/index.html

I won't say the cop did everything right. But I would advise against pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me."

Slow day in Danville. Jaywalking is the “excuse” for confronting the dead suspect. “Come here.” I wonder if he added, “boy,” to the end of his command.

I have no idea, but there's no mention that he did. 
Will you not agree that pulling a knife on a cop and saying "kill me" is a bad idea?

Of course it is. I am not even sure why you think you need to ask that question or make that point. Does it mean the cop should fulfill your wish? I would hope not. We all know what suicide by cop is and we all should know how serious mental health issues can be. 

It was more a response to the comments "Can't wait to hear the justification and he should just comply." That comes across as putting no blame on the victim. Even when the cop is wrong, often the victim shares some responsibility. The cop shouldn't have shot, but you don't pull a knife on a cop either and say "kill me." They both share responsibility here.

Jaywalking. Dead. Cops need to learn to prioritize the level of infraction in "To Serve & To Protect," and respond accordingly. Often the victim shares all of the responsibility based on a lot the pro-cop comments I've read.

He wasn't killed for j-walking. He was killed because he pulled a knife on the cop, he just happened to have j-walked just prior to doing so. I wouldn't J-walk in front of a cop, I know they give out tickets for that. 
The cop may have been able to deescalate the situation. But he definitely should not have pulled the knife either. If you're going to blame a cop for not deescalating a situation when faced with a knife, lets also blame the guy for pulling a knife on the cop and not say he was killed for j-walking.