SPLC

unsung

I was watching TV today, an odd event for sure, and the topic was about gangs. Gangs are discussed around these parts very frequently as I am with a 45 minutes drive of downtown Chicago. Gang violence seems to have always been a problem in Chicago, early 2000's there was one year that had 600 murders, so the killing really is nothing new. What many people don't know is that there was a brief truce amongst the gangs, unfortunately it was short-lived.

Back on topic though, one of the people interviewed was a founder of the SPLC. So naturally I visited their website, and quite honestly for the first time, and admittedly I have heard of them before just never paid them no mind. Duh, the KKK is a hate group.

The thing is they label just about everyone a hate/terrorist/extremist group if that group goes against the grain at all. When did it become extreme to question government? They actually said that those that want to end the Federal Reserve banking system were extreme, those that have questions about the government report on 9/11 were extreme, being a member of a militia, people who question the Kennedy assassination, government internment camps, door to door gun confiscations, etc. Does it not matter that some of those have happened? Anyone ever hear of the Japanese getting thrown into camps during WWII? What about the Katrina gun confiscations? You mean we are required to believe that one man shot the President, in a moving car, three times with almost impossible accuracy on a dated rifle? Being in a militia is not only covered in the US Constitution but it is also part of many State Constitutions.

That makes people a threat?

This isn't about partisan politics either, although in many circumstances it sure seems that they want it that way. Many of these theories were under different administrations, and have stood over time. Is it wise to eat what they are shoveling? Do we not question things without being suspected of ulterior motives anymore? The SPLC has some good things, mostly though it seems very biased towards anything the federal government issues as a statement. Seems pretty ridiculous to me.

rgambs

individually, most of those things shouldnt be any concern but when you add them up together it gets a Bundy ranch kind of feel and extreme is appropriate. Militias are an exception...if you are in a militia you should be watched closely! I dont give a rats ass what the constitution says about militias! Militia forces were only maintained and upheld by law to thwart uprisings by the black slaves of the south. There is ZERO reason to be in a militia today, unless you count extremism as a reason. If one has such desires, they can join any number of legitimate "military societies" such as the Civilian Air Patrol, the US Coast Guard, the State National Guards, or the branches of military service.

unsung

Well that's not true, the militias started when the colonists were arriving and they were in place to defend against Indian attacks. Also the Militia Act defines members as all able bodied men between the ages of 17-45 iirc that weren't in a regular military branch, and that was written long after slaves were freed. Sorry, the slave issue didn't really happen as you say, in fact ex-slaves made up a huge part of militias after the Civil War. Militias also pretty much secured this nation in every war from the beginning until the Civil War.

rr165892

rgambs said:

individually, most of those things shouldnt be any concern but when you add them up together it gets a Bundy ranch kind of feel and extreme is appropriate. Militias are an exception...if you are in a militia you should be watched closely! I dont give a rats ass what the constitution says about militias! Militia forces were only maintained and upheld by law to thwart uprisings by the black slaves of the south. There is ZERO reason to be in a militia today, unless you count extremism as a reason. If one has such desires, they can join any number of legitimate "military societies" such as the Civilian Air Patrol, the US Coast Guard, the State National Guards, or the branches of military service.

I kinda agree with you on the legitimate militias.In today's day and age having "militias" like in colonial times is just not needed and kinda wacked out.If something changed in the world and we found ourselves facing a crisis of security that was beyond just military intervention.Then I think the re birth of a militia by the people would be fine and down right necessary on a local level in some parts of the country.
The flip side of this is of course people can exercise their rights to join neighborhood watches,hunting clubs,and any other grouping they feel empowered to be part of,and where is the fine line between right to assemble and threading militia? If peaceful protest by a group no matter what their cause threatening, if they have large numbers and say something we disagree with? Is it being armed?
I think that law enforcement has to do a bit of due diligence on some groups if they have large amount of weapons,members and they have a message that may inspire another group to respond possible violent if they were to congregate in public.Yeah they have the right to assemble but law enforcement has the right to monitor its activities.
Unsung Dont forget during Kennedy assignation those 3 magic bullets also were somehow funneled through a bolt action rifle in 6 sec and turned and went backward in the air.We all know that dog don't hunt.

unsung

Shhh, the NSA is watching you radical extremist you.

rr165892

Dude,I'm fresh off a bi-yearly viewing of JFK.Those 10 min with Kostner and Sutherland are golden.(Dont forget Pesci)But they have fucked me up for years.My brain hurts after trying to ingest the info.

brianlux

If by SPLC you mean Southern Poverty Law Center I can say this much about them- I support SPLC and receive and read their newsletters frequently. Morris Dees and SPLC are about "fighting hate and bigotry and to seeking justice for the most vulnerable members of our society", not fighting the government. Dees and SPLC have done a fine job of fighting hate for many years. I'm sorry you have an issue with this group but have you looked into SPLC any further than viewing one interview on one television program for which you dismiss an entire group?

Man, oh man.... I hope others here are more open to looking into SPLC with a more broad mind.

mickeyrat

being in a state regulated milita is what is stated. Each states national guard IS that state regulated militia.

rr165892

brianlux said:

If by SPLC you mean Southern Poverty Law Center I can say this much about them- I support SPLC and receive and read their newsletters frequently. Morris Dees and SPLC are about "fighting hate and bigotry and to seeking justice for the most vulnerable members of our society", not fighting the government. Dees and SPLC have done a fine job of fighting hate for many years. I'm sorry you have an issue with this group but have you looked into SPLC any further than viewing one interview on one television program for which you dismiss an entire group?

Man, oh man.... I hope others here are more open to looking into SPLC with a more broad mind.

The above SPLC and Dees do a fantastic job.

brianlux

rr165892 said:

brianlux said:

If by SPLC you mean Southern Poverty Law Center I can say this much about them- I support SPLC and receive and read their newsletters frequently. Morris Dees and SPLC are about "fighting hate and bigotry and to seeking justice for the most vulnerable members of our society", not fighting the government. Dees and SPLC have done a fine job of fighting hate for many years. I'm sorry you have an issue with this group but have you looked into SPLC any further than viewing one interview on one television program for which you dismiss an entire group?

Man, oh man.... I hope others here are more open to looking into SPLC with a more broad mind.

The above SPLC and Dees do a fantastic job.

Good to hear that, rr! :-)

unsung

mickeyrat said:

being in a state regulated milita is what is stated. Each states national guard IS that state regulated militia.

Not entirely. The Organized Militia contains the national guard, the Reserve Militia is all able bodied.

unsung

brianlux said:

If by SPLC you mean Southern Poverty Law Center I can say this much about them- I support SPLC and receive and read their newsletters frequently. Morris Dees and SPLC are about "fighting hate and bigotry and to seeking justice for the most vulnerable members of our society", not fighting the government. Dees and SPLC have done a fine job of fighting hate for many years. I'm sorry you have an issue with this group but have you looked into SPLC any further than viewing one interview on one television program for which you dismiss an entire group?

Man, oh man.... I hope others here are more open to looking into SPLC with a more broad mind.

Did you read my post?

mickeyrat

unsung said:

mickeyrat said:

being in a state regulated milita is what is stated. Each states national guard IS that state regulated militia.

Not entirely. The Organized Militia contains the national guard, the Reserve Militia is all able bodied.

if I may then, in what way does YOUR state regulate the militia I believe I remember you saying you are a member of?

I get that the definition of "regulated" when the 2nd was written may be different than what is commonly used today..


Edit :I found an article from The New Republic contained in this link that I found to be informative and enlightening to me. It is linked in the section that leads with "from the Articles of Confederation" about midway down the page. Tried to link it directly but the link is broken when I do it so the good link is found here.
http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndmea.html

rr165892

Questioning the government is not only our right but our responsibility.That being said organizing a group that hates other groups/demographics of people while questioning the government is when it gets shitty.
I don't know if you saw the CNN special series they have been running on the 60s,its great btw.but they were in the middle of the civil rights episode and as a southerner(Not all of us are bible pounding racists even if we are more conservative),some of it made me sick.Some of the most polite,welcoming people in this country could be filled with such hate and anger really was horrible.The good part is we learn from our missteps in the past and make damn sure they are not repeated.I think the SPLC does a very competent job following and speaking towards these issues,not just here in the south but all across the country.They have at times reached on issues to be fair or made more of a situation than need be but the good far out numbers the bad

brianlux

unsung said:

brianlux said:

If by SPLC you mean Southern Poverty Law Center I can say this much about them- I support SPLC and receive and read their newsletters frequently. Morris Dees and SPLC are about "fighting hate and bigotry and to seeking justice for the most vulnerable members of our society", not fighting the government. Dees and SPLC have done a fine job of fighting hate for many years. I'm sorry you have an issue with this group but have you looked into SPLC any further than viewing one interview on one television program for which you dismiss an entire group?

Man, oh man.... I hope others here are more open to looking into SPLC with a more broad mind.

Did you read my post?

Yes. I don't respond to things I don't read.

"...they label just about everyone a hate/terrorist/extremist group if that group goes against the grain at all"

You said a (as in ONE) person was interviewed. Who are "they"? Do "they" represent all of SPLC? Is it accurate to characterize the opinion of an organization as a whole based on one person's statement?

"The SPLC has some good things, mostly though it seems very biased towards anything the federal government issues as a statement."

You came to this conclusion based on one interview within one television program? That's it?

I just don't get where you came up with the conclusion that the basic purpose of SPLC is to oppose the federal government. Like I said, I'm a member and I follow their work. But I guess you have a right to your opinion, however informed or uninformed it may be.

unsung

I also viewed their site and that is how I came to that conclusion, my points were illustrated in my OP, clearly you are a radical if you question how JFK was killed. I bet they keep a close eye on that Oliver Stone. Kevin Costner as well.

unsung

mickeyrat said:

unsung said:

mickeyrat said:

being in a state regulated milita is what is stated. Each states national guard IS that state regulated militia.

Not entirely. The Organized Militia contains the national guard, the Reserve Militia is all able bodied.

if I may then, in what way does YOUR state regulate the militia I believe I remember you saying you are a member of?

I get that the definition of "regulated" when the 2nd was written may be different than what is commonly used today..


Edit :I found an article from The New Republic contained in this link that I found to be informative and enlightening to me. It is linked in the section that leads with "from the Articles of Confederation" about midway down the page. Tried to link it directly but the link is broken when I do it so the good link is found here.
http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndmea.html

Here is mine (Illinois), the entirety of Article XII is Militia. I'm not exactly sure why you are trying to tie the 2nd Amendment into this, not really the direction I thought we were going. Anyway...


SECTION 1. MEMBERSHIP
The State militia consists of all able-bodied persons
residing in the State except those exempted by law.
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)

SECTION 2. SUBORDINATION OF MILITARY POWER
The military shall be in strict subordination to the
civil power.
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)

SECTION 3. ORGANIZATION, EQUIPMENT AND DISCIPLINE
The General Assembly shall provide by law for the
organization, equipment and discipline of the militia in
conformity with the laws governing the armed forces of the
United States.
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)

SECTION 4. COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF AND OFFICERS
(a) The Governor is commander-in-chief of the organized
militia, except when they are in the service of the United
States. He may call them out to enforce the laws, suppress
insurrection or repel invasion.
(b) The Governor shall commission militia officers who
shall hold their commissions for such time as may be provided
by law.
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)

SECTION 5. PRIVILEGE FROM ARREST
Except in cases of treason, felony or breach of peace,
persons going to, returning from or on militia duty are
privileged from arrest.
(Source: Illinois Constitution.)

rr165892

unsung said:

I also viewed their site and that is how I came to that conclusion, my points were illustrated in my OP, clearly you are a radical if you question how JFK was killed. I bet they keep a close eye on that Oliver Stone. Kevin Costner as well.

Guilty as charged.Then don't get me started on UFOs

brianlux

unsung said:

I also viewed their site and that is how I came to that conclusion, my points were illustrated in my OP, clearly you are a radical if you question how JFK was killed. I bet they keep a close eye on that Oliver Stone. Kevin Costner as well.

Which is why I always look under my bed before I go to sleep.