The End of Big Stadium Rockers?

1ThoughtKnown

Analyst: There Will Be A Collapse In Arena Bands Within A Decade
Business Insider
By Rob Wile – 18 minutes ago

REUTERS/Juan Medina
Arena and stadium music acts will vanish within a decade because no one is buying albums anymore, according to music industry analyst Mark Mulligan.
In a new post on his blog, Mulligan, a widely cited industry expert who runs the MIDiA research group, says most music listeners now engage in a phenomenon he calls "grazing" that fails to yield a meaningful relationship with a single artist. That jibes with data Spotify's Paul Lamere recently published showing the average music streamer doesn't even finish the song they're listening to. "In the on-demand age with effectively limitless supply they flit from here to there," Mulligan writes, "consuming more individual artists in a single playlist than an average music fan would have bought albums by in an entire year in the CD era."
Mulligan elaborated to us in an email, saying that "heritage" acts like the Rolling Stones are getting into their twilight years, and that most new artists just aren't big enough to fill the void.
"For example, a Kings of Leon or a Coldplay are become exceptions rather than norms in terms of band lifespans. Large venue managers I have spoken to are already heavily focusing on non-music acts in order to safeguard against a future music collapse."
This is no skin off our backs — we've previously written why we hate arena shows — the acoustics and/or sight-lines are almost always horrible.
For its part, Live Nation, the country's biggest concert promoter, is betting on an end-around: They've just partnered with Yahoo's YouTube rival, Screen, to bring free streaming shows to music fans. But the New York Times' Ben Sisario notes previous attempts at this kind of product haven't caught on.
" Talent agents said they welcomed the program, and particularly the promotional power of Yahoo, which says it has 800 million users around the world. But several expressed doubts that Yahoo and Live Nation would be able to succeed in drawing large numbers of viewers to concert streams where so many others have failed. ' The demand just isn’t there,' said one prominent agent, who spoke anonymously to preserve relations with Live Nation and others."
Live Nation shares were down 0.6% Tuesday.



Its an interesting article, sorry if I put it in the wrong forum as nothing fit exactly. After seeing PJ in Europe and North America sell out big venues consistently it got me thinking.. they may be right. Bands like PJ are a dying breed. I went to AIC in Edmonton about 6000, NIN in Edmonton and Calgary? Maybe 8000.
Now I am older so the new stuff isn't something I will go see very often, but it appears big Live acts are dwindling, not too mention bars which play live rock n roll.
Was curious what other Jammers thought out there

Cheers

KC138045

My dad always complained about the music I would blast from my room. I'm only 34 but I often sound like an old man because I hate the new mainstream music that is shoved in our faces. Its over produced bullshit. I still listen to the bands I listened to when I was younger. STP, Soundgarden, obviously PJ, Beastie Boys, Foo Fighters. I'm thankful I get to see Pearl Jam in October because I'm not sure how many more chances we're going to have. I'm going to see the Black Keys in Value City Arena and I do not expect it to be even close to sold out. This article is dead on. Big arena shows are going to be a thing of the past real soon.

a5pj

I think the ticketmaster and livenation's kind of did it to themselves with all the fee's, sucks for some artists. I was gonna go catch a show next weekend, but $60 for 3 lower tier bands (Filter), nope.

As for skipping around songs, it's true. The concept of a full album really doesn't exist anymore (think Yield haha). Bands are just trying to have the next single, cash in, and be on their way. I probably would too.

mrussel1

This is true and it is sad. There are going to be exceptions but I think the popularity of the festivals is just another example of the same phenomenon. Even someone like Jack White is playing Fox Theater in St Louis and other smaller venues. He has a few large pavilions but it is not widespread. But then you have Mumford who was absolutely selling out arenas and they don't have a long legacy like Stones, PJ, Bruce, etc.
This all assumes that music stays on the present course. I hope there is some retro movement and people start listening to whole 'albums' again. I also hope today's bands start using guitars again because even the alt music today is so synth heavy, you would think that Duran Duran is back. Killing me.

1ThoughtKnown

I think the problem, from what I hear on satellite radio, is the new rock n roll lacks SOUL.
I mean I've heard some of this stuff and it is catchy i suppose, but it doesn't reach down and grab you in your heart. the songs don't MEAN anything.
Pearl jam songs, and there are so many of them, have meaning to me in one way or another.
Of course, I think they are the best band of their era, but there were many talented artists who did not play music to make a buck.
Growing up in a mountain town in Alberta, where snowboarding was king, we were all punks. When the bands from Seattle exploded on the scene (with others) it was amazing.
I still remember where I was when I first heard Alive and that is 23 years ago (I think?).
This is what keeps the fans coming back for more.. not a dreadful reunion tour to see the Backstreet Boys or the Eagles charging ridiculous money to see them.
Pearl Jam has done it right, and the fans know this. Too bad most other bands didn't see their wisdom along the way.

maverick

1ThoughtKnown said:

I think the problem, from what I hear on satellite radio, is the new rock n roll lacks SOUL.
I mean I've heard some of this stuff and it is catchy i suppose, but it doesn't reach down and grab you in your heart. the songs don't MEAN anything.
Pearl jam songs, and there are so many of them, have meaning to me in one way or another.


This is what keeps the fans coming back for more.. not a dreadful reunion tour to see the Backstreet Boys or the Eagles charging ridiculous money to see them.
Pearl Jam has done it right, and the fans know this. Too bad most other bands didn't see their wisdom along the way.

Amen

PJammer4life

1ThoughtKnown said:

I think the problem, from what I hear on satellite radio, is the new rock n roll lacks SOUL.
I mean I've heard some of this stuff and it is catchy i suppose, but it doesn't reach down and grab you in your heart. the songs don't MEAN anything.
Pearl jam songs, and there are so many of them, have meaning to me in one way or another.
Of course, I think they are the best band of their era, but there were many talented artists who did not play music to make a buck.
Growing up in a mountain town in Alberta, where snowboarding was king, we were all punks. When the bands from Seattle exploded on the scene (with others) it was amazing.
I still remember where I was when I first heard Alive and that is 23 years ago (I think?).
This is what keeps the fans coming back for more.. not a dreadful reunion tour to see the Backstreet Boys or the Eagles charging ridiculous money to see them.
Pearl Jam has done it right, and the fans know this. Too bad most other bands didn't see their wisdom along the way.

Nicely put.

djklambake

There will always be big acts to fill stadiums. Whether they're generated by MTV and labels (Bieber, Katy Perry) or they come up organically...

Zod

I tend to agree. Most of the rock artists that sell out arenas are veterans. There aren't many recent rock bands capable of filling arenas (let alone stadums). On the flip side I don't think rock is a very popular format anymore. It seems to me that artists like Lady Gaga or Miley Cirus have little issue with selling out an Arena?

Is it more an issue that our genre's popularity is depleting, or the entire industry as a whole is waning.

Maybe it could be a positive thing. If people stop buying tickets, maybe the prices will come back down. The skyrocketing ticket prices (even when you exclude the skyrocketing ticketmaster fees) has to be unsustanble. Ticket prices have increased far greater than the rate of inflation. If they want to fill big venues, maybe they have to get costs under control.

On the other flipside the internet really has fragmenting things. There's so many genre's and musicians you don't get the focus you used to get. Record labels are losing their grip, music videos are old school, and radio is less popular amongst the young.

I guess I'm saying I don't know. PJ, Foo Fighters, and Tool might be some of the last big Rock bands capable of filling up arenas for the rest of their careers.

1ThoughtKnown

djklambake said:

There will always be big acts to fill stadiums. Whether they're generated by MTV and labels (Bieber, Katy Perry) or they come up organically...

The point is.. will they LAST. Of course the ones you mention get a tour or two.. then fizzle out

rr165892

This is why amphitheater Shows seem to do so well. Bigger then intimate club settings like house of blues but easier to fill and better sound then Stadium and Arena shows.I know down here in the Palm Beaches Cruzan amphtheatre Get the bigger drawing acts like DMB,Zac Brown,etc do multiple nights to Full house crowds.

MayDay10

The article knows.

Its rough and why I have tried to get to so many shows the past 10 years.

I would say 95% of the blame, if not more is on technology and digital music.

Unsure on where the next evolution is, but I dont think its coming back anytime soon.

FrankieG

rr165892 said:

This is why amphitheater Shows seem to do so well. Bigger then intimate club settings like house of blues but easier to fill and better sound then Stadium and Arena shows.I know down here in the Palm Beaches Cruzan amphtheatre Get the bigger drawing acts like DMB,Zac Brown,etc do multiple nights to Full house crowds.

I would prefer an arena show over the horrible sound I experienced at the Susquehanna Bank Center in Camden NJ... The Lawn speakers were so messed up...

jamburger

FrankieG said:

rr165892 said:

This is why amphitheater Shows seem to do so well. Bigger then intimate club settings like house of blues but easier to fill and better sound then Stadium and Arena shows.I know down here in the Palm Beaches Cruzan amphtheatre Get the bigger drawing acts like DMB,Zac Brown,etc do multiple nights to Full house crowds.

I would prefer an arena show over the horrible sound I experienced at the Susquehanna Bank Center in Camden NJ... The Lawn speakers were so messed up...

But the ability to purchase some crack on the walk over from the parking lot can't be beat!

All My Rivals

The ADHD attention span of the digital age for certain has an impact; most young people absolutely do not have one full album in their music collection. On top of that, there are probably dozens of artists that they LITERALLY don't know a thing about, nor could they name one other song by them if it was playing at the time. Artists today are too busy "building a brand" for themselves to be a real rock star/rock band. Their presentation and image on social media is more important than the music for far too many of them

The other issue at the heart of this; there is nothing new to believe in, or inspire your soul in Rock and Roll anymore. Think about it; throw aside the hideous "grunge" label. This (Pearl JAM, etc.) literally CHANGED OUR LIVES. Our lives, and the world as we know it. It was the last great boom in rock and roll, and we have yet to see it happen again. I understand the cyclical nature, the up and downs of rock; classic rock gives way to disco, give way to punk, gives way to 80's trash, gives way to "alternative", give way to hip hop. But now what? What has surfaced to take the throne since? Nu metal of Korn, etc (or Incubus if you prefer)? Didn't last. Garage Rock? Jack White is only one man, and the Strokes hate each other too much to tour. Fizzled out far too soon.

The "rock" we hear now is overproduced, recycled, imitation garbage; doing a half assed job of trying to recreate something they don't even understand. I am fortunate that I still like a LOT of new music, but most of the innovative and "alternative" music that exists today is the folksy/indie stuff that, while incredible, doesn't move you like a Pearl Jam could. (Beside, all the hipster doofus crowd are ruining that now too lol)

Case in point, I really love the Arctic Monkeys. I am not saying that they are my second favorite band or whatever, but part of what I love about them is they seem like one of the only bands a kid who is 12 now could latch onto and feel the way we did about PJ.

So where are the saviours? Are we doomed to never see rock ascend the musical throne gain? I hope not; It is too important to too many lives to die a death like this.

Sorry for the length. End Rant.

Zod

1ThoughtKnown said:

djklambake said:

There will always be big acts to fill stadiums. Whether they're generated by MTV and labels (Bieber, Katy Perry) or they come up organically...

The point is.. will they LAST. Of course the ones you mention get a tour or two.. then fizzle out

That's kind of the sad thing. Pop music (over the last 10 years) always seems to have new up and comers who get crazy popular and can sell out arenas. You don't need longevity in pop, if you rinse, recycle, repeat

Rock music on the other hand...... it's struggling a lot more. I've often thought this about getting older. When I was a kid my grandparents listened to classical and choir music and I figured that was old peoples music. I'm 10 years (or more) younger than the guys in PJ who were part of the last great Rock era. I could very well outlive rock music. Some young kid will hear me playing my records and think I'm listening to old peoples music.. lol.

rr165892

All hope is not lost.You have to dig deep,but quality is still out there.Black Stone Cherry is one example.They tear it up..Someone else mentioned Artic Monkeys.Also Stone Sour,Pop Evil,Virgin Mary's,New Medicine,Dead Sara,also kick ass.I happen to love Zac Browns stuff also.
I think the bands that want to make a great meaningful record and not a quick digital recording will always rise to the top.I know Ill prob get some slack for this next one but Shinedown put on one bad ass show and can write some good stuff.Of course QOTSA,Weezer,Foo,Soundgarden all still killing it at a high level.Im kinda glass half full on the outlook of today's music.I go to shit ton of live events,Even the great Lionel Ritchie last night,and the throw back Def Leppard and Kiss next week(For the people watching of course).So I try to keep an open mind,drink beer and have fun.

PJ_Soul

There still seem to be a lot of arena shows.... just as many as there always were. Plus more people are buying albums again. And even if they weren't, I don't see how that would end big concerts. People still love live music, as evidenced by several sold out concerts in every major city every week. I think this person is just wrong and has kind of a silly premise. Most people haven't been buying full albums for years, yet the concerts keep coming. :-/

EnterThanman

I agree that peoples relationships with bands isn't as meaningful as it once was, but disagree it will mean no more arena shows. People still like to get out of the house, and plenty of bands play arena shows that don't have anywhere near the same stature as, say, PJ. Arctic Monkeys, Arcade Fire, Phoenix, Black Keys are all arena level bands, even though they're far from house hold names. Seems to me that more people than ever are going to shows.

edibervan

Though I respect and see the point, I have to disagree.
The world is definetly not only Europe and USA anymore.
While these 2 continents might see the end of big Arena shows, South America and other rising areas will keep them running for generations.
It is not the end of big concerts. It is the well deserved moving of them from crowds once affected by overexposure and multitude of options to the crowds that have awaited for decades for their bands to come and play.
We will keep putting 85 to 100 thousand people in concerts for a long time, don't worry. Just come over and stop whining!

1ThoughtKnown

I am going to the next PJ tour in South America... that I can guarantee! Those shows on PJRadio sound awesome. I was at Trieste, Italy and that was amazing with 35,000 people. The energy was amazing. I'm with you there edibervan! Excellent post.

edibervan

1ThoughtKnown said:

I am going to the next PJ tour in South America... that I can guarantee! Those shows on PJRadio sound awesome. I was at Trieste, Italy and that was amazing with 35,000 people. The energy was amazing. I'm with you there edibervan! Excellent post.

My friend, I don't mean to creat expectations, but what the world call "sing along" is a whole new concept for those who attend a big concert in Buenos Aires. And in São Paulo or Santiago the passion and the way people give themselves are not to be forgotten.

On the other hand, we may lack the comfort and acoustics one find in several smaller venues than Morumbi/Maracanã, Monumental or Nacional Stadium.

There's two sides for every story, that's for sure! =D
I am waiting to see Pearl Jam in any african country to properly decide what I like the most after seeing them in 5 continents!

But I really don't see Stadiums and big crowds ending anywhere around this south continent, that's for sure!

PJStatTracker

I don't agree with this article at all, I think he just sounds like an old man longing for the days of yesteryear.

He may be right that the huge ROCK bands that can fill arenas every time they tour and build a massive following of lifelong fans is dying, but there are always - as someone pointed out - the Lady Gagas and Miley Cyruses who can sell out arenas on hype or on the strength of one or two songs. They will have that ability for one or two years, and then it will be time for another new artist who will have the same ability.

And let's not forget rap - Kanye, Jay-Z, Eminem, etc. - they will be selling out arenas as long as they wish. None of these are shows that many of us want to go to, obviously, but people love going to big concerts. It won't stop.

1ThoughtKnown

PJ Stat Tracker... your app kicks ass. Just have to say. Cheers

vaggar99

arena shows suck. bands play these for the money, but the sound and atmosphere are truly bad in most of these places. true theaters are always best. nothing like watching a PJ show in a beautiful outdoor venue like Irvine meadows or Santa Barbara Bowl.

TJ25487

I just read in Rolling Stone that festivals are the future as it is a win win for everybody. The promoters are guaranteed lots of ticket sales and the bands play to big crowds and they get paid well to boot. If anything I think that the real issue is that there aren't as many good bands like PJ around anymore to be able to sell out arenas. That is true for damn sure.

pjhawks

i think this same article was written in about 1998. it might not be rock per se, although I think someday rock will make a huge comeback, but to say big arena tours won't happen I think is a stretch. at least in my area kids today are huge on country which a good portion is leaning more towards rock these days than true country. many of today's country stars could/will be filling some of the void. and music will return to rock as it's main form at some point. rock musicians are too talented compared to other musical formats not to come to the forefront again. just a matter of the right time, right place, right band/guy/girl to set it off again.

TJ25487

pjhawks said:

i think this same article was written in about 1998. it might not be rock per se, although I think someday rock will make a huge comeback, but to say big arena tours won't happen I think is a stretch. at least in my area kids today are huge on country which a good portion is leaning more towards rock these days than true country. many of today's country stars could/will be filling some of the void. and music will return to rock as it's main form at some point. rock musicians are too talented compared to other musical formats not to come to the forefront again. just a matter of the right time, right place, right band/guy/girl to set it off again.

True dat!

PJStatTracker

plus how many of these type of bands emerge per decade? very, very few. This generation has some bands that can fill the seats - Muse, Arcade Fire, etc. Can any of those guys make it 20+ years and still sell? Dunno, but there will be someone around who will, for sure.

PJStatTracker

1ThoughtKnown said:

PJ Stat Tracker... your app kicks ass. Just have to say. Cheers

(Thanks!)