America's Gun Violence

Halifax2TheMax

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

“He threatened law enforcement.” Full stop. Method or type of threat shouldn’t be determining factor of whether he’s a “responsible” gun owner. Unbelievable to me the lengths you’ll go to to defend 2A. He was being investigated for months. It wasn’t a one off of “I’ll kick their ass.”

Somebody you work with sends you an email or posts on Facebook that they’re going to kick your ass. You know they have multiple firearms. Do you feel threatened? Do you consider them a “responsible” gun owner?

I love these "what if" scenarios you keep coming up with and your blatant disregard for law.

I'll defend anything I think is bullshit and you keep spinning things which I will call bullshit, sorry not sorry.

What about this scenario? C'mon man.   Go ahead, I'm ready for the next one because I am not answering this one, it's too much...

What’s too much is that you think someone making threats and stockpiles weapons and ammo, resulting in arrest and felony charges, is a “responsible” gun owner. Your logic and that of others who agree with you is why nothing changes.

We can agree to disagree and that’s fine not fine. Still ain’t personal though.

I'm a "fringe" for certain things, I understand this.

Stockpiling ammo thing is a joke.  It really is.  Having 10,000 rounds is not that.  1,000,000 perhaps but not 10,000.

When I shot competitively, and I have mentioned this to you before, I shot on average 5 days a week using 200-300 rounds each day.  That's over 1000 rounds a week.  Buying 1000 rounds at a time is good but buying 10-40,000 rounds is much cheaper.

Did you make online threats to law enforcement?

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

“He threatened law enforcement.” Full stop. Method or type of threat shouldn’t be determining factor of whether he’s a “responsible” gun owner. Unbelievable to me the lengths you’ll go to to defend 2A. He was being investigated for months. It wasn’t a one off of “I’ll kick their ass.”

Somebody you work with sends you an email or posts on Facebook that they’re going to kick your ass. You know they have multiple firearms. Do you feel threatened? Do you consider them a “responsible” gun owner?

I love these "what if" scenarios you keep coming up with and your blatant disregard for law.

I'll defend anything I think is bullshit and you keep spinning things which I will call bullshit, sorry not sorry.

What about this scenario? C'mon man.   Go ahead, I'm ready for the next one because I am not answering this one, it's too much...

What’s too much is that you think someone making threats and stockpiles weapons and ammo, resulting in arrest and felony charges, is a “responsible” gun owner. Your logic and that of others who agree with you is why nothing changes.

We can agree to disagree and that’s fine not fine. Still ain’t personal though.

I'm a "fringe" for certain things, I understand this.

Stockpiling ammo thing is a joke.  It really is.  Having 10,000 rounds is not that.  1,000,000 perhaps but not 10,000.

When I shot competitively, and I have mentioned this to you before, I shot on average 5 days a week using 200-300 rounds each day.  That's over 1000 rounds a week.  Buying 1000 rounds at a time is good but buying 10-40,000 rounds is much cheaper.

Did you make online threats to law enforcement?

Stupid...

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

^^^^^^^^ Too many characters in the quote feature. My response:

I asked a very basic yes or no question, initially. You danced around and eventually answered. Your response is part of why nothing changes and nothing can be done. When you have the time, would you mind answering about whether the accused should undergo a mental health evaluation?

No, because I'm not a psychiatrist, psychologist or mental health expert.

I didn't dance around shit.  I flat out told you he was still a responsible gun owner.  YOU danced around and kept digging and asking other questions yet I still answered the same yes.  

So you answered no because you're not a mental health professional? WTF? That's why you send them to a mental health expert or a panel of them. Seems you're okay with a person who stockpiled weapons and ammunition and made online threats, inclusive of to federal law enforcement officers, resulting in arrest, and you don't think they should be subject to a mental health evaluation? Is that right?

I am not an expert in mental health so why on earth would I recommend or think that he should?

 I do believe how the law works is that a person does go to evaluation to make sure they are fit for trial and does see a behavioral expert?

Is there a part of that you want changed?

You are asking me about what the law should do and dictate but the law is already there.  It sounds like you want mental health questions factored in for everyone that owns a gun?  Is that what you are getting at? 

I don't believe the mental health and behavioral evaluation(s) are part of the process, unless its a defense request in a potential mental illness/insanity defense. As a matter of intake? Perhaps a cursory, "have you ever harmed yourself?" "Are you suicidal?" I think anyone who stockpiles a large number of weapons and ammo, has the FBI investigate them and ends up being charged for threatening law enforcement, should be subject to a comprehensive mental health exam. Anyone purchasing a firearm should be required to attest, under threat of perjury, that they're of "sound mind and body" with a doctor's note from a primary care physician, and do so under renewal of license. Both would have an appeals process with the involvement of law enforcement, the medical community and a judge or judges.

I have said before that a mental background check would be fine.  What sucks about that is when a person does get denied for a gun because he didn't pass the psych exam will perhaps follow him for the rest of their life.

Lawsuits could follow.  By a person denied, person misdiagnosed, doctor misdiagnosing and so on.

Back to the case.  Dude "threatened law enforcement".  Did he threaten to shoot them?  Then that's not responsible.  Did he threaten to "beat their asses"?  You could threaten law enforcement in a bunch of different ways which is why I will take the side of he was "responsible gun owner" until I hear otherwise.  I'm not jumping to conclusions and look at it through the eyes of a court.

You can't be an irresponsible driver if you get drunk at a bar and take a cab home.  It doesn't work like that.

We could debate this guys character all day which is what you do seem to keep concluding to.  We could start profiling people and have internet watchdogs and put steroids in the Patriot Act if that would make you feel safer but I won't and don't want that.

uh....you don't know what you're talking about

Halifax2TheMax

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

“He threatened law enforcement.” Full stop. Method or type of threat shouldn’t be determining factor of whether he’s a “responsible” gun owner. Unbelievable to me the lengths you’ll go to to defend 2A. He was being investigated for months. It wasn’t a one off of “I’ll kick their ass.”

Somebody you work with sends you an email or posts on Facebook that they’re going to kick your ass. You know they have multiple firearms. Do you feel threatened? Do you consider them a “responsible” gun owner?

I love these "what if" scenarios you keep coming up with and your blatant disregard for law.

I'll defend anything I think is bullshit and you keep spinning things which I will call bullshit, sorry not sorry.

What about this scenario? C'mon man.   Go ahead, I'm ready for the next one because I am not answering this one, it's too much...

What’s too much is that you think someone making threats and stockpiles weapons and ammo, resulting in arrest and felony charges, is a “responsible” gun owner. Your logic and that of others who agree with you is why nothing changes.

We can agree to disagree and that’s fine not fine. Still ain’t personal though.

I'm a "fringe" for certain things, I understand this.

Stockpiling ammo thing is a joke.  It really is.  Having 10,000 rounds is not that.  1,000,000 perhaps but not 10,000.

When I shot competitively, and I have mentioned this to you before, I shot on average 5 days a week using 200-300 rounds each day.  That's over 1000 rounds a week.  Buying 1000 rounds at a time is good but buying 10-40,000 rounds is much cheaper.

Did you make online threats to law enforcement?

Stupid...

Why is that stupid? You claim 10,000 rounds is not stockpiling and so you think  the guy who threatened law enforcement was “responsible.” On the one hand you both had stockpiled 10,000 rounds, and on the other, only one of you, I assume, threatened law enforcement. And yet, according to you, you’re both “responsible” gun owners. Yikes.

tempo_n_groove

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

“He threatened law enforcement.” Full stop. Method or type of threat shouldn’t be determining factor of whether he’s a “responsible” gun owner. Unbelievable to me the lengths you’ll go to to defend 2A. He was being investigated for months. It wasn’t a one off of “I’ll kick their ass.”

Somebody you work with sends you an email or posts on Facebook that they’re going to kick your ass. You know they have multiple firearms. Do you feel threatened? Do you consider them a “responsible” gun owner?

I love these "what if" scenarios you keep coming up with and your blatant disregard for law.

I'll defend anything I think is bullshit and you keep spinning things which I will call bullshit, sorry not sorry.

What about this scenario? C'mon man.   Go ahead, I'm ready for the next one because I am not answering this one, it's too much...

What’s too much is that you think someone making threats and stockpiles weapons and ammo, resulting in arrest and felony charges, is a “responsible” gun owner. Your logic and that of others who agree with you is why nothing changes.

We can agree to disagree and that’s fine not fine. Still ain’t personal though.

I'm a "fringe" for certain things, I understand this.

Stockpiling ammo thing is a joke.  It really is.  Having 10,000 rounds is not that.  1,000,000 perhaps but not 10,000.

When I shot competitively, and I have mentioned this to you before, I shot on average 5 days a week using 200-300 rounds each day.  That's over 1000 rounds a week.  Buying 1000 rounds at a time is good but buying 10-40,000 rounds is much cheaper.

Did you make online threats to law enforcement?

Stupid...

Why is that stupid? You claim 10,000 rounds is not stockpiling and so you think  the guy who threatened law enforcement was “responsible.” On the one hand you both had stockpiled 10,000 rounds, and on the other, only one of you, I assume, threatened law enforcement. And yet, according to you, you’re both “responsible” gun owners. Yikes.

Yep, yikes.

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

^^^^^^^^ Too many characters in the quote feature. My response:

I asked a very basic yes or no question, initially. You danced around and eventually answered. Your response is part of why nothing changes and nothing can be done. When you have the time, would you mind answering about whether the accused should undergo a mental health evaluation?

No, because I'm not a psychiatrist, psychologist or mental health expert.

I didn't dance around shit.  I flat out told you he was still a responsible gun owner.  YOU danced around and kept digging and asking other questions yet I still answered the same yes.  

So you answered no because you're not a mental health professional? WTF? That's why you send them to a mental health expert or a panel of them. Seems you're okay with a person who stockpiled weapons and ammunition and made online threats, inclusive of to federal law enforcement officers, resulting in arrest, and you don't think they should be subject to a mental health evaluation? Is that right?

I am not an expert in mental health so why on earth would I recommend or think that he should?

 I do believe how the law works is that a person does go to evaluation to make sure they are fit for trial and does see a behavioral expert?

Is there a part of that you want changed?

You are asking me about what the law should do and dictate but the law is already there.  It sounds like you want mental health questions factored in for everyone that owns a gun?  Is that what you are getting at? 

I don't believe the mental health and behavioral evaluation(s) are part of the process, unless its a defense request in a potential mental illness/insanity defense. As a matter of intake? Perhaps a cursory, "have you ever harmed yourself?" "Are you suicidal?" I think anyone who stockpiles a large number of weapons and ammo, has the FBI investigate them and ends up being charged for threatening law enforcement, should be subject to a comprehensive mental health exam. Anyone purchasing a firearm should be required to attest, under threat of perjury, that they're of "sound mind and body" with a doctor's note from a primary care physician, and do so under renewal of license. Both would have an appeals process with the involvement of law enforcement, the medical community and a judge or judges.

I have said before that a mental background check would be fine.  What sucks about that is when a person does get denied for a gun because he didn't pass the psych exam will perhaps follow him for the rest of their life.

Lawsuits could follow.  By a person denied, person misdiagnosed, doctor misdiagnosing and so on.

Back to the case.  Dude "threatened law enforcement".  Did he threaten to shoot them?  Then that's not responsible.  Did he threaten to "beat their asses"?  You could threaten law enforcement in a bunch of different ways which is why I will take the side of he was "responsible gun owner" until I hear otherwise.  I'm not jumping to conclusions and look at it through the eyes of a court.

You can't be an irresponsible driver if you get drunk at a bar and take a cab home.  It doesn't work like that.

We could debate this guys character all day which is what you do seem to keep concluding to.  We could start profiling people and have internet watchdogs and put steroids in the Patriot Act if that would make you feel safer but I won't and don't want that.

uh....you don't know what you're talking about

Of course I do.  See I just said I did.

I have no idea what you are talking about.

I'm out of here.  Y'all make me friggin nuts.

Gern Blansten

Yeah go shoot up a piece of paper or something.

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah go shoot up a piece of paper or something.

Very adult of you.  Good burn.

Gern Blansten

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah go shoot up a piece of paper or something.

Very adult of you.  Good burn.

Thanks....thought of that off the top of my head

Gern Blansten

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tcwz8-EfFYE

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah go shoot up a piece of paper or something.

Very adult of you.  Good burn.

Thanks....thought of that off the top of my head

I'm waiting for the part where I don't know what I am talking about.  That is what I was hoping for.

Gern Blansten

I'm waiting for the part where you tell me how many people you have shot.

mcgruff10

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah go shoot up a piece of paper or something.

Very adult of you.  Good burn.

Thanks....thought of that off the top of my head

I'm waiting for the part where I don't know what I am talking about.  That is what I was hoping for.

If you get ticketed for jay walking are you a responsible gun owner?

oftenreading

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah go shoot up a piece of paper or something.

Very adult of you.  Good burn.

Thanks....thought of that off the top of my head

I'm waiting for the part where I don't know what I am talking about.  That is what I was hoping for.

If you get ticketed for jay walking are you a responsible gun owner?

I would have hoped that the average gun owner sees the difference between threats of violence and jay walking. Maybe not. 
 

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

I'm waiting for the part where you tell me how many people you have shot.

Da fuq?

mcgruff10

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Gern Blansten said:

Yeah go shoot up a piece of paper or something.

Very adult of you.  Good burn.

Thanks....thought of that off the top of my head

I'm waiting for the part where I don't know what I am talking about.  That is what I was hoping for.

If you get ticketed for jay walking are you a responsible gun owner?

I would have hoped that the average gun owner sees the difference between threats of violence and jay walking. Maybe not. 
 

I would have hoped the average Canadian would recognize sarcasm. Maybe not.  

Gern Blansten

THis is 600 rounds for a .380....10,000 rounds would be roughly $2,500 and amount to 17 of those boxes.  That's stockpiling ammo whether your intentions are good or not.

mcgruff10

Gern Blansten said:

THis is 600 rounds for a .380....10,000 rounds would be roughly $2,500 and amount to 17 of those boxes.  That's stockpiling ammo whether your intentions are good or not.

You picked a pistol cartridge, I'm guessing the guy we keep talking about  bought 5.56 or .223.  But whatever, I don't think 10k rounds is a lot.  I "stockpile" certain types of ammo because sometimes I get a good deal (.22lr, surplus 30.06 or 7.62x54r for example).

tempo_n_groove

Gern Blansten said:

THis is 600 rounds for a .380....10,000 rounds would be roughly $2,500 and amount to 17 of those boxes.  That's stockpiling ammo whether your intentions are good or not.

Now I see.

That is fair.  Someone that isn't familiar with this will see it like that.  Totally fair.

Gern Blansten

mcgruff10 said:

Gern Blansten said:

THis is 600 rounds for a .380....10,000 rounds would be roughly $2,500 and amount to 17 of those boxes.  That's stockpiling ammo whether your intentions are good or not.

You picked a pistol cartridge, I'm guessing the guy we keep talking about  bought 5.56 or .223.  But whatever, I don't think 10k rounds is a lot.  I "stockpile" certain types of ammo because sometimes I get a good deal (.22lr, surplus 30.06 or 7.62x54r for example).

Right so even more expensive and requiring more boxes.  17 boxes....I'm guessing you don't go spend $2,500-$3,000 on ammo.