Is EPA's 30% carbon cut enough?

brianlux

Saw this on Huffington Post today: The EPA is calling for a 30% cut in carbon emissions by 2030.

In 2007 I organized one of several local "Step it Up" rallies throughout the country (and others through the world) telling Congress we need to cut carbon 80 percent by 2050.

I'm not sure how to do the math but the EPA goal seems more attainable than what we were asking for in 2007. I'm not sure the EPA's guidelines are strict enough to meet the challenge to reduce global warming greenhouse gasses (specifically CO₂) in time but I hope they are and I hope we can reach that goal.

Here's the Huff article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/01/epa-carbon-rules-power-plants_n_5428562.html

brianlux

WELL, as we can clearly see, this is just another boondoggle by Mr. Obama. Obviously cutting carbon emissions is a "controversial" action on his part. And all those lost jobs! (Though we won't mention the fact that many more jobs can be created by converting to cleaner energy production). Thank you FOX NEWS for challenging all those nut-job green freaks who think cleaning up the planet is some kind of righteous priority. Damn hippies- BAH!

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/06/02/obama-to-announce-rule-to-limit-emissions-from-fossil-burning-plants-part-his/

Last-12-Exit

Thanks Mr President, put more Americans out of work as you shut down more plants. And thank you again, Mr President, for raising power bills in at least 25 states where more than 75% of the power comes from coal.

brianlux

Last-12-Exit said:

Thanks Mr President, put more Americans out of work as you shut down more plants. And thank you again, Mr President, for raising power bills in at least 25 states where more than 75% of the power comes from coal.

No one wants people put out of work. But the nature of work continually goes through transitions. The invention of automobile no doubt put many stable hands and horseshoers out of work but provided many more jobs in auto manufacturing. No one here, least not me, is happy to see people out of work. Many jobs will be created as we move towards more environmentally friendly and sustainable economies. Rising sea levels will also put many more people out of work- perhaps even out of the living- than will any measure to cut carbon in the atmosphere.

oceaninmyeyes

brianlux -- have you been watching Years of Living Dangerously on Showtime? yearsoflivingdangerously.com/ You can see the first episode on this website if you don't have access to showtime. I think I learned the most from the episode with America Ferrera, regarding James Taylor, the ALEC lobbyist who goes from state to state to "work" with the congressmen and women from each state. He writes the bills and the congress-persons work to put it into law. He was in Kansas recently trying to reverse help for wind-farmers. His bill failed by one vote. He's a paid schill. They talked in that episode about coal and how it is such a dirty fuel, but they also showed that unburned methane is worse -- several times worse, and it leaks from fracking wells, and homes, and businesses. ~X( There was another episode that talked about alternative fuels and how they would put people to work if we just changed our way of thinking.

oceaninmyeyes

Here's the link to the episode info about methane leaks. The scientist who began studying it is Gaby Petron, from NOAA, and she has been searching for it in my backyard. http://yearsoflivingdangerously.com/story/chasing-methane/

unsung

brianlux said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Thanks Mr President, put more Americans out of work as you shut down more plants. And thank you again, Mr President, for raising power bills in at least 25 states where more than 75% of the power comes from coal.

No one wants people put out of work. But the nature of work continually goes through transitions. The invention of automobile no doubt put many stable hands and horseshoers out of work but provided many more jobs in auto manufacturing. No one here, least not me, is happy to see people out of work. Many jobs will be created as we move towards more environmentally friendly and sustainable economies. Rising sea levels will also put many more people out of work- perhaps even out of the living- than will any measure to cut carbon in the atmosphere.

Not too many parking lots outside of those windmill farms, only temporary construction jobs are created, when they are done being built, poof people are gone.

800 people work permanently at my nuclear station, at good wages, plus taxes are pumped into the local economy each year. The local towns wouldn't have much without us.

Wind power wouldn't exist if the taxpayers weren't subsidizing it. We don't get that subsidy, so we have to sell our power with a different margin. Laws dictate that wind power must be purchased first, and since it is propped up by the taxpayer it can be sold cheaper than we can.

brianlux

oceaninmyeyes said:

brianlux -- have you been watching Years of Living Dangerously on Showtime? yearsoflivingdangerously.com/ You can see the first episode on this website if you don't have access to showtime. I think I learned the most from the episode with America Ferrera, regarding James Taylor, the ALEC lobbyist who goes from state to state to "work" with the congressmen and women from each state. He writes the bills and the congress-persons work to put it into law. He was in Kansas recently trying to reverse help for wind-farmers. His bill failed by one vote. He's a paid schill. They talked in that episode about coal and how it is such a dirty fuel, but they also showed that unburned methane is worse -- several times worse, and it leaks from fracking wells, and homes, and businesses. ~X( There was another episode that talked about alternative fuels and how they would put people to work if we just changed our way of thinking.

Yes, for the most part it's an excellent series. Not to thrilled with the glamorous opening shot of a movie star (HF) climbing into a jet, but what ever it takes to get people to watch, listen and learn. After 40 years of reading, talking, listening, learning, and be active along these lines I'm more than a bit dismayed that we let things go for so long but I'm glad to see people are starting to get it and do something about it. If I could afford early retirement (I'm turning 63 this summer) I would be volunteering a lot more time to one of about the organizations I most interested in- Sea Shepherds, 350.org, Greenpeace and Wildlands Network. On the other hand I have days where I get discouraged and I all want to do is forget about it.

polaris_x

unsung said:

brianlux said:

Last-12-Exit said:

Thanks Mr President, put more Americans out of work as you shut down more plants. And thank you again, Mr President, for raising power bills in at least 25 states where more than 75% of the power comes from coal.

No one wants people put out of work. But the nature of work continually goes through transitions. The invention of automobile no doubt put many stable hands and horseshoers out of work but provided many more jobs in auto manufacturing. No one here, least not me, is happy to see people out of work. Many jobs will be created as we move towards more environmentally friendly and sustainable economies. Rising sea levels will also put many more people out of work- perhaps even out of the living- than will any measure to cut carbon in the atmosphere.

Not too many parking lots outside of those windmill farms, only temporary construction jobs are created, when they are done being built, poof people are gone.

800 people work permanently at my nuclear station, at good wages, plus taxes are pumped into the local economy each year. The local towns wouldn't have much without us.

Wind power wouldn't exist if the taxpayers weren't subsidizing it. We don't get that subsidy, so we have to sell our power with a different margin. Laws dictate that wind power must be purchased first, and since it is propped up by the taxpayer it can be sold cheaper than we can.

wind is the cheapest form of new energy production all things being equal ... maybe solar is catching up ...

in any case - i'm so tired of the jobs excuse ... americans all over the country are leaving their families and homes to find work thousands of miles away from home so they can make $12/hr ... meanwhile big corporations continue to make bigger profits and executive pay is going through the roof ...

this notion of jobs is about as stupid as it gets ... not all jobs are worth the same when we consider society into the equation ...

brianlux

polaris_x said:

this notion of jobs is about as stupid as it gets ... not all jobs are worth the same when we consider society into the equation ...

No one like to see people needlessly out of work but I couldn't agree more, polaris_x. If we take society and the health of the planet that sustains us into account, match that with the fact that as many or more jobs can be created through "green" (we need a new word) jobs then we have little room to complain. It should be about converting to cleaner, more sustainable and healthier work and world.

Yvon Chouinard's book Let My People Go Surfing is an excellent, inspiring and informative book about creative jobs that keep people employed and happy and help keep the planet healthy.