Kelly Thomas

unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-78953707/

What no outrage for him here? I wonder why. I guess this gives police a free pass, again.

Full video for those interested, I doubt this will reach the 67 pages that the Florida thug received.

http://m.ocregister.com/video/v/1628003509001/crime-fullerton-government

Comments

  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    what are you implying here?

    i haven't heard of this story until now ... read the wikipedia page on the incident ... definitely seems fucked up ...
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Implying? I'm asking why a thug can bash someone's head into the concrete but the victim isn't allowed to defend himself vs why cops can murder a homeless person and there's not a peep.

    Does that clear it up?
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    yes and no ... the way i read it - it seems you are implying that people on here are police violence enablers ...

    is it not possible that no one actually has heard of the story? ... wouldn't it make more sense for you to post it and then see the reaction? ...
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    You are making typical false assumptions, here. We are outraged. So, what if we do not entertain you with our anger?
    Personallly, i live in that part of Orange County... I know the area... I've been to the SlideBar... I am close to this story.... and no one I know is giving the police a free ride on this. That is all in your head.
    And the only similarity I can derive from this case and the Trayvon Martin case is the attitude of gun toting ego maniacs out looking to put a big hurt on the 'Scum of Society' by playing the ultimate authority figure role.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,338
    unsung said:

    http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-78953707/

    What no outrage for him here? I wonder why. I guess this gives police a free pass, again.

    Full video for those interested, I doubt this will reach the 67 pages that the Florida thug received.

    http://m.ocregister.com/video/v/1628003509001/crime-fullerton-government

    Why is it that thug is always used to describe a young black man/boy?

  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    dignin said:

    unsung said:

    http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-78953707/
    What no outrage for him here? I wonder why. I guess this gives police a free pass, again.
    Full video for those interested, I doubt this will reach the 67 pages that the Florida thug received.
    http://m.ocregister.com/video/v/1628003509001/crime-fullerton-government

    Why is it that thug is always used to describe a young black man/boy?
    ...
    Short answer: To classify them as sub-human, therefore, easier to justify killing them.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Yeah, no parallels, no free ride, and honestly, strikes me as an angry and far reach.

    I don't even think this has anything to do with guns. Or thugs, or being black.

    Why were these analogies even drawn?

    The video that's been shown over and over makes my heart break for this kid.

  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    hedonist said:

    Yeah, no parallels, no free ride, and honestly, strikes me as an angry and far reach.

    I don't even think this has anything to do with guns. Or thugs, or being black.

    Why were these analogies even drawn?

    The video that's been shown over and over makes my heart break for this kid.

    ...
    I agree. This was basically, assholes letting authority totally take over and human cruelty at its worst. They figured that no one would miss or even care about a homeless guy and used that justification to play with their bullshit weapons as toys. These guys needed to go to prison and the whole thing still makes me ill.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,338
    Cosmo said:

    dignin said:

    unsung said:

    http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-78953707/
    What no outrage for him here? I wonder why. I guess this gives police a free pass, again.
    Full video for those interested, I doubt this will reach the 67 pages that the Florida thug received.
    http://m.ocregister.com/video/v/1628003509001/crime-fullerton-government

    Why is it that thug is always used to describe a young black man/boy?
    ...
    Short answer: To classify them as sub-human, therefore, easier to justify killing them.
    Reminded me of this recent event

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24417234
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Cosmo said:

    You are making typical false assumptions, here. We are outraged. So, what if we do not entertain you with our anger?
    Personallly, i live in that part of Orange County... I know the area... I've been to the SlideBar... I am close to this story.... and no one I know is giving the police a free ride on this. That is all in your head.
    And the only similarity I can derive from this case and the Trayvon Martin case is the attitude of gun toting ego maniacs out looking to put a big hurt on the 'Scum of Society' by playing the ultimate authority figure role.

    No one giving them a free ride... except a jury.

    Actually the gun topic never entered my mind, Mr Thomas wasn't armed.
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    dignin said:

    Cosmo said:

    dignin said:

    unsung said:

    http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-78953707/
    What no outrage for him here? I wonder why. I guess this gives police a free pass, again.
    Full video for those interested, I doubt this will reach the 67 pages that the Florida thug received.
    http://m.ocregister.com/video/v/1628003509001/crime-fullerton-government

    Why is it that thug is always used to describe a young black man/boy?
    ...
    Short answer: To classify them as sub-human, therefore, easier to justify killing them.
    Reminded me of this recent event

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24417234

    Yawn. Thug has nothing to do with race. Keep playing that card, it never gets old.

  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    i thought when you said "thug" you meant Zimmerman since he was the aggressor in a violent confrontation...trayvon was the victim, you champion the right to defend oneself while ignoring that this is precisely what trayvon was doing when he was stalked by a grown man in a place he had every right to be. somebody follows me around at night i defend myself.simple.

    YAWN. keep objectifying those you don't care for, it never gets old.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    Actually I would agree with that, they are both thugs.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    unsung said:

    Cosmo said:

    You are making typical false assumptions, here. We are outraged. So, what if we do not entertain you with our anger?
    Personallly, i live in that part of Orange County... I know the area... I've been to the SlideBar... I am close to this story.... and no one I know is giving the police a free ride on this. That is all in your head.
    And the only similarity I can derive from this case and the Trayvon Martin case is the attitude of gun toting ego maniacs out looking to put a big hurt on the 'Scum of Society' by playing the ultimate authority figure role.

    No one giving them a free ride... except a jury.

    Actually the gun topic never entered my mind, Mr Thomas wasn't armed.
    ...
    Don't try to backpeddle your way out of this one... you were asking where is the outrage... HERE, on the Moving Train. You actually compared it to the the message thread on Trayvon Martin... HERE... on this forum page. From what I know... the Kelly Thomas Jury does not post here in the Moving Train.
    ...
    And let me add... Trayvon Martin was not armed, either. Both Martin and Thomas were murdered by gun toting douchebags with feelings of exerting their authority (real and perceieved) over the lives of others.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Well...

    I just saw the video.

    Amazing that not one of those officers intervened at some point suggesting something along the lines of, "Fellas... we need to chill. This is out of hand."

    This scene was nothing more than a frenzied mob gleefully, maliciously and sadistically taking turns hurting him. How useless is shouting commands while they are tasering him? "Yeah yeah. I'll comply while these megavolts are running through my body!"

    Fire them all. Press charges against them all. Hold people accountable for their poor decisions.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • EarlWelshEarlWelsh Buffalo, NY Posts: 1,125

    Well...

    I just saw the video.

    Amazing that not one of those officers intervened at some point suggesting something along the lines of, "Fellas... we need to chill. This is out of hand."

    This scene was nothing more than a frenzied mob gleefully, maliciously and sadistically taking turns hurting him. How useless is shouting commands while they are tasering him? "Yeah yeah. I'll comply while these megavolts are running through my body!"

    Fire them all. Press charges against them all. Hold people accountable for their poor decisions.

    Yeah, it's disgusting. I have the utmost respect for officers who do their job according to the law they enforce and who respect the very people they have sworn to protect and serve BUT this guy, or these guys, are the definition of PIGS. Fucking disgusting and shameful.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Just some background...
    The parking lot where this all took place is shared by several businesses, such as the SlideBar Restaurant, O.C. Transit (bus) and AmTrak/Santa Fe, Fullerton, CA. Kelly Thomas is a regular in the area, as are several regular homeless people who use the Transit Zone as shelter. Patrons of the SlideBar report a homeless man 'breaking into cars' in the parking lot late one night. SlideBar manager calls Fullerton P.D. to investigate. Fullerton P.D. is often called to this area, being right downtown, in a busy transit center with several bars and other businesses.
    Turns out, there are no cars being broken into at this time. Mr. Thomas is collecting cigarettes butts in the parking lot to pull the unsmoked tobacco so it can be rolled into cigarettes for later use. Although, there have been cars broken into in the past, by who knows who... homeless or otherwise, it is undetermined.
    Local businesses' have long complained to the City of Fullerton, Fullerton P.D., O.C. Transit Authority and AmTrak about the homeless population drawn to the transit zone. Patrons of those business also complain about the homeless people asking for hand outs as they frequent places, such as the SlideBar.
    Fullerton P.D. responds and are alerted to Mr. Thomas by SlideBar employees. No one is sure if Thomas is the one reported by patrons or just a target of opportunity.
    Fullerton P.D. murders Thomas.
    ...
    There are a lot of contributing factors... businesses, business owners, employees, patrons, police, homelessness...
    So, have you ever felt indifference towards homeless people? Join the club, because most people probably have felt the same way as the people who thought a homeless guy was up to no good. No one feels he should have been murdered... but, we really need to do something to keep people like Mr. Thomas safe. Exactly what should we do? I have no idea.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Yeah, the last part, Cosmo...I don't know either. I wish I did.

    Living/working in West Hollywood, my path crosses with many homeless people...some I call "regulars" - see them often, give them some food or money when I can. Most are peaceful and gentle - they just want to eat and keep warm - and while I see lucidity, comprehension, in the eyes of some, there's also a disconnect and sad sad sense of loss in others.

    Those are the ones I worry about most. Refusing help, maybe not even comprehending that they need some kind of help.

    They're the ones who could become another Kelly Thomas.
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    edited February 2014
    Cosmo said:

    Just some background...
    The parking lot where this all took place is shared by several businesses, such as the SlideBar Restaurant, O.C. Transit (bus) and AmTrak/Santa Fe, Fullerton, CA. Kelly Thomas is a regular in the area, as are several regular homeless people who use the Transit Zone as shelter. Patrons of the SlideBar report a homeless man 'breaking into cars' in the parking lot late one night. SlideBar manager calls Fullerton P.D. to investigate. Fullerton P.D. is often called to this area, being right downtown, in a busy transit center with several bars and other businesses.
    Turns out, there are no cars being broken into at this time. Mr. Thomas is collecting cigarettes butts in the parking lot to pull the unsmoked tobacco so it can be rolled into cigarettes for later use. Although, there have been cars broken into in the past, by who knows who... homeless or otherwise, it is undetermined.
    Local businesses' have long complained to the City of Fullerton, Fullerton P.D., O.C. Transit Authority and AmTrak about the homeless population drawn to the transit zone. Patrons of those business also complain about the homeless people asking for hand outs as they frequent places, such as the SlideBar.
    Fullerton P.D. responds and are alerted to Mr. Thomas by SlideBar employees. No one is sure if Thomas is the one reported by patrons or just a target of opportunity.
    Fullerton P.D. murders Thomas.
    ...
    There are a lot of contributing factors... businesses, business owners, employees, patrons, police, homelessness...
    So, have you ever felt indifference towards homeless people? Join the club, because most people probably have felt the same way as the people who thought a homeless guy was up to no good. No one feels he should have been murdered... but, we really need to do something to keep people like Mr. Thomas safe. Exactly what should we do? I have no idea.

    I can honestly say that I do my 'small' part to assist with helping the homeless people. I frequently give cash (not change), buy meals for, and buy coffees for the ones in my town. I have some regulars that may or may not recognize me. I don't do it for any reason other than to be able to live with myself. I don't scoff at these people- I understand that they were all once eager children in an elementary class... vying for the right to answer a question with their peers. Something happened along the way and they lost themselves.

    I recall one time, it was -20. My son and I were in the Wendy's drive thru and the saddest looking 20-22 year old male shuffled by with a blanket, making his way to somewhere. I gave him 5 or 10 dollars and then we proceeded on our way. My son asked why I felt the need to do that. I replied that this boy was someone's son and if he (my son) ever was in the same situation, I would only hope that someone would look out for him and try to help in the smallest way as well.

    I still recall my son saying, "Dad, he didn't even look like that bad of a guy. It just looked like he needed somebody."
    Post edited by Thirty Bills Unpaid on
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,384
    I agree with your outrage over this issue, unsung, what happened really sucks but to answer your question, "Why no outrage," for me it's because I don't get outraged over something before I've heard about it. Your approach at the onset of this thread seems to be meant to be an attach here instead of an observation or an attempt to give out information-that in of itself could motivate some mild outrage. Some of us might not all always agree with you on everything but you're not the enemy and neither are we. I'm guessing most of us are sympathetic with the plight of the homeless and most of us not support police brutality. So why always on the attack?
    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,576
    i have a very difficult time mustering respect for police. the half dozen or so officers i have known personally were all perfectly separated into two classes. the first is guys who were bullies and/or bigshots in school and now need to relive glory and authority however they can. the second is guys/girls who were bullied and/or invisible in school and now need that same glory and authority because they lacked it when young.
    in no way do i think this is a representative sample of the whole, but with all the abuse of power that goes on daily i just can't put it out of mind. for every homeless man murdered by the police there are a thousand black men beaten, and a thousand women molested.
    I just wish they would spend more energy to "protect" than to "serve".
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,384
    rgambs said:

    i have a very difficult time mustering respect for police. the half dozen or so officers i have known personally were all perfectly separated into two classes. the first is guys who were bullies and/or bigshots in school and now need to relive glory and authority however they can. the second is guys/girls who were bullied and/or invisible in school and now need that same glory and authority because they lacked it when young.
    in no way do i think this is a representative sample of the whole, but with all the abuse of power that goes on daily i just can't put it out of mind. for every homeless man murdered by the police there are a thousand black men beaten, and a thousand women molested.
    I just wish they would spend more energy to "protect" than to "serve".

    Your experiences with cops seems very similar to a few others here and I'm sorry to hear that and I have no reason to doubt yours (and their) feelings. I have a more mixed experience. I always get a little paranoid when I see a cop in my rearviewmirror. I've been harassed by cops four times that I can think of right off hand including being roughed up pretty good twice so some of those are rather unpleasant memories but I've also had some great experiences with good cops who were both very professional and helpful. I think a lot depends on where you live. My bad experiences occurred in larger cities and the good ones in small towns. I think big city cops tend to be more jaded.

    "Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
    -Eddie Vedder, "Smile"

    "Try to not spook the horse."
    -Neil Young













  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Twenty or so years ago, I got pulled over by a female Beverly Hills officer on motorcycle. My only experience in this big city with a dickish attitude. But aside from her, I haven't met, needed, been served or protected by one who was less than professional, compassionate, and capable.

    Last month, my auto registration was one week overdue and I got pulled over by a West Hollywood sheriff. Such a nice polite young man. He ran my license, saw I lived in the area and sent me on my way.

    I / we count on these people, and despite the few bad apples that are to be found in any walk of life or profession, I think most do what they do with sincerity and skill.

    I guess like with anything, our experience may cloud our perception...perhaps location too?
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Look... we ALL will have interactions with cops. I would guess that the vast majority of those encounters will involve motor vehicles of some sort. Us average citizens will have to interact with those officers, who pretty much deal with pissed off drivers for the better part of their careers. I'm pretty sure the average cop has a pretty low opinion of the public at large, based upon the majority of their interactions with us. We are typically, pissed off because we are getting pulled over... no one likes getting pulled over, right?
    i would make a terrible cop because i would probably end up hating people, because the people I would have to deal with are not you and me... And when cops do come into contact with us... we are probably not happy to see them. We understand there are a lot of assholes out there and I'm going to go out on a limb and say, if the cops are constantly coming into contact with you, you might want to self-check yourself because you are probably a problem.
    That said, no one in the general civilian community supports police abuse of power. To even make the assumption that people, in general, support police brutality is as assinnine as the actual support of police abuse of power. and for the most part, we understand that the police are a needed resource in our communities because there are asshole out there that we need to be protected from.
    And we learn from these encounters. The last thing you probably want to do is provoke a confrontation. The same instinct that tellls you it is not a good idea to hug an aligator should probably kick in when dealing with cops. Chances are... you did something wrong, like speeding. Yeah, there are those times when you get pulled over for no reason... your 'Do Not hug aligators' instinct should automatically kick in, even on those occassions.
    ...
    But, i will tell you this... if given the choice to have an encounter with a uniformed police officer... or some bullshit citizen who has taken it upon himself to police the rest of us... I'm going with the cop. Because, i am definately going to give you shit if you try to stop me to ask me what i am doing... because I 'look suspecious' to you. Stop me if I'm breaking into garages, but don't play cop and act like a tough guy because you are carrying a gun.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    hedonist said:

    Twenty or so years ago, I got pulled over by a female Beverly Hills officer on motorcycle. My only experience in this big city with a dickish attitude. But aside from her, I haven't met, needed, been served or protected by one who was less than professional, compassionate, and capable.

    Last month, my auto registration was one week overdue and I got pulled over by a West Hollywood sheriff. Such a nice polite young man. He ran my license, saw I lived in the area and sent me on my way.

    I / we count on these people, and despite the few bad apples that are to be found in any walk of life or profession, I think most do what they do with sincerity and skill.

    I guess like with anything, our experience may cloud our perception...perhaps location too?

    are you white and middle/upper class?

    question you ask yourself is if you were say black and of lower income - would you have received the same treatment?
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    polaris,

    Yes to your first two questions, though I'm not sure if you're implying that our (or most?) police are typically racist (and if not, my apologies). I'm not sure how they'd ascertain my income anyway, since I drive a 17-year-old car.

    I've also seen our local officers interact pretty well with all types of people.

    Maybe I've been treated as I have because I act respectfully with them?
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    hedonist said:

    polaris,

    Yes to your first two questions, though I'm not sure if you're implying that our (or most?) police are typically racist (and if not, my apologies). I'm not sure how they'd ascertain my income anyway, since I drive a 17-year-old car.

    I've also seen our local officers interact pretty well with all types of people.

    Maybe I've been treated as I have because I act respectfully with them?

    all i'm saying is that sometimes your experience is dictated by factors that aren't readily understood ... if you truly believe a poor black person gets treated the same way - that's great ... maybe so ... maybe not ... i do feel our inability to look at the ugliness in our society allows it to fester and grow ...
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    But, I do understand the factors of my experiences. I understand that others have had vastly different ones.

    (and for what it's worth, I'm aware of the nastiness that goes on - I just choose not to see only that...if I did, I'd go fucking nuts!)
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    and just so everyone doesn't think i'm a cop hater ... this is my view on cops ...

    i believe cops to be hard working people who are trying to serve the community under sometimes difficult situations ... however, there are bad apples in a lot of police forces ... and those bad apples are allowed to be bad apples because of this unwritten code amongst police officers ... it's sickening ... this is the case here ... how many cops stood by while this guy was getting beaten to death!? ... saying and doing nothing is just as bad ... cops will gladly ask the community to give information about other people but cops always stay silent when it comes to other cops ... if they speak out ... they are blackballed ...
  • unsungunsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487
    brianlux said:

    I agree with your outrage over this issue, unsung, what happened really sucks but to answer your question, "Why no outrage," for me it's because I don't get outraged over something before I've heard about it. Your approach at the onset of this thread seems to be meant to be an attach here instead of an observation or an attempt to give out information-that in of itself could motivate some mild outrage. Some of us might not all always agree with you on everything but you're not the enemy and neither are we. I'm guessing most of us are sympathetic with the plight of the homeless and most of us not support police brutality. So why always on the attack?

    Admittedly I've had some life issues that have been very difficult to deal with, and then I see a story like this and I get fired up.

    My apologies all around. I'm learning not to let things get to me.

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