Outline for Salvaging Civilization

brianlux

When it comes to pondering the fate of civilization, I tend to be a man of extremes. To me it surely looks like civilization is in crash mode and the two most logical routes are either a fast crash in order to spare as much of the rest of life on the planet as possible or a major effort to get our specie’s act together. Some of our brightest thinkers believe the sooner we crash the better. This is one of the basic premises of, for example, Derrick Jensen’s work (and I really like what he says). But being of a generous mind (at least at the moment, LOL) I’ll put down here what I see as a basic outline for saving civilization.


1. Reduce population. We’ve reached carrying capacity and the numbers must go down, either by choice or natural forces.

2. Eliminate suburbia and centralize towns and cities with sustainable and organic agriculture organic close by. Of course I’ll miss my coffee but I’m sure someone will figure out how to grow it locally. Or not.

3. Rebuild our existing rail system and forget about high speed rail or air flight and get over our car addiction. No that won’t be easy but it will become necessary. Flying will become a rarity. Peak oil will force us to stay grounded. Let’s make it happen while we have the choice.

4. Abandon our insistence that our myth is right and theirs is wrong. Let’s face it, no one really knows any more about The Mysterious than anybody else and thinking we do is a major cause of war and strife. Time to grow up, humans.

5. Distribute basic necessities more fairly. There is plenty to go around, at least right now. Let’s make sure everyone’s basic needs are met.

6. Consume less. Last year we reached earth’s overshot day on August 20. That was the day that marked the date when humanity exhausted nature’s budget for the year. We can’t do that endlessly.

7. Create corridors for wild life. We share this planet with a lot of other life that is also valuable in of it's own right. This plan is already being worked on by Wildlands Network and it makes perfectly good sense.

That’s my basic plan. I’d be interested in hearing what other’s think along these lines. I’m sure we’ll get some quick off the cuff comments here but it might be worth while thinking about this and posting your own outline.

know1

I disagree with all of them except possibly #1 and #7.

Some of them may help to "salvage" civilization as you put it, but "salvaging" is subjective.

unsung

What is the moral and just way to reduce population?

Jason P

In regards to item #3, I was in an meeting with some of the big wigs at Norfolk Southern Rail yesterday. They are the major railway company in the midwest and east coast. It was interesting to learn the logistics they face, but one thing became clear throughout the meeting ... even minor changes to existing rail are very complex and cost prohibative. When you factor in the bureaucracy of the railway (which Norfolk openly admitted to) and landowners and wetlands and available land and yada, yada, yada ... well it amount to tons of money and red tape.

It became clear to me that a high speed rail system is a political pipe dream after discussing minor changes to existing rail that I'm dealing with. I was discussing a minor change in the middle of nowhere and it was astonding to hear how much time and money it would take just to add a second track to hold an 85 car train for switching.

The bad thing is that we are limited by logistic decisions that were made over 100 years ago.

Jason P

unsung said:

What is the moral and just way to reduce population?

$100 Best Buy gift card if you get a vasectomy

unsung

Is that for me or available for everyone?

Jason P

unsung said:

Is that for me or available for everyone?

Everyone. I think it will work. If $100 intices someone to get snipped, that is most likely someone who shouldn't be populating the globe.

Jason P

Soylent Green is another option.

unsung

I bet you'd have a lot of takers.

know1

I'm all for incentives for people to choose to get fixed.

brianlux

Jason P said:

In regards to item #3, I was in an meeting with some of the big wigs at Norfolk Southern Rail yesterday. They are the major railway company in the midwest and east coast. It was interesting to learn the logistics they face, but one thing became clear throughout the meeting ... even minor changes to existing rail are very complex and cost prohibative. When you factor in the bureaucracy of the railway (which Norfolk openly admitted to) and landowners and wetlands and available land and yada, yada, yada ... well it amount to tons of money and red tape.

It became clear to me that a high speed rail system is a political pipe dream after discussing minor changes to existing rail that I'm dealing with. I was discussing a minor change in the middle of nowhere and it was astonding to hear how much time and money it would take just to add a second track to hold an 85 car train for switching.

The bad thing is that we are limited by logistic decisions that were made over 100 years ago.

Interesting to get an insider view and what what you say confirms some of what I've heard about high speed rail being a pipe dream. And yeah, the 100 year old decision is one we will pay for for a long time to come.

Soylent Green. Yeah, always my number one answer to over population.
)

backseatLover12

unsung said:

What is the moral and just way to reduce population?

It certainly isn't republicans and their anti-abortion bills flying through MANY state governments and suppressing women's reproductive rights.

backseatLover12

Saving civilization would mean first recognizing, on a global scale, the reality of what's happening to the planet.

hedonist

But...sometimes I like quick off-the-cuff remarks.

High-speed rails - at least the expensive sweetheart one planned for CA and to head where no one even goes - can kiss my sweet ass. What a colossal waste of money and time.

I don't have answers...maybe a few ideas - although honestly, despite the goodness I see around me, I think we've made our own collective bed at this point.

Anyway...seems so simple to just live and let live. To be kind, honest, ethical. Don't be too proud to ask for help when needed, nor refuse it when unwarranted. Give when, where and how you're able. Be responsible and compassionate toward yourself and the world around you.

brianlux

backseatLover12 said:

Saving civilization would mean first recognizing, on a global scale, the reality of what's happening to the planet.

It boggles my mind that understanding what is happening to the planet isn't already a global reality but your right, it pretty much adds up to a lot of global denial.

brianlux

hedonist said:

But...sometimes I like quick off-the-cuff remarks.

High-speed rails - at least the expensive sweetheart one planned for CA and to head where no one even goes - can kiss my sweet ass. What a colossal waste of money and time.

I don't have answers...maybe a few ideas - although honestly, despite the goodness I see around me, I think we've made our own collective bed at this point.

Anyway...seems so simple to just live and let live. To be kind, honest, ethical. Don't be too proud to ask for help when needed, nor refuse it when unwarranted. Give when, where and how you're able. Be responsible and compassionate toward yourself and the world around you.

Good thoughts in that last paragraph. One one my favorite Kurt Vonnegut quotes is something about being considerate to others. Sometimes the simple answers are the best. Thanks for good reminders- these are a great place to start with for making this world a little better.

backseatLover12

brianlux said:

backseatLover12 said:

Saving civilization would mean first recognizing, on a global scale, the reality of what's happening to the planet.

It boggles my mind that understanding what is happening to the planet isn't already a global reality but your right, it pretty much adds up to a lot of global denial.

You can blame the U.S. the most when it comes to refusing to recognize what's happening. Other countries know, it's this one, that thinks that politics, money and fossil fuels will lead to a bright future. Instead, those three things are what's going to sink our civilization. Just watch. All we can do is individually do what we can to preserve what we've got and to stop consuming. And to take care of each other. I agree with hedonist's last paragraph too. But to take care of each other would mean to actually stop thinking only of ourselves in this very individual and me centered culture.

brianlux

backseatLover12 said:

brianlux said:

backseatLover12 said:

Saving civilization would mean first recognizing, on a global scale, the reality of what's happening to the planet.

It boggles my mind that understanding what is happening to the planet isn't already a global reality but your right, it pretty much adds up to a lot of global denial.

You can blame the U.S. the most when it comes to refusing to recognize what's happening. Other countries know, it's this one, that thinks that politics, money and fossil fuels will lead to a bright future. Instead, those three things are what's going to sink our civilization. Just watch. All we can do is individually do what we can to preserve what we've got and to stop consuming. And to take care of each other. I agree with hedonist's last paragraph too. But to take care of each other would mean to actually stop thinking only of ourselves in this very individual and me centered culture.

So true and well said, backseatlover.

backseatLover12

At least you have a positive attitude though, Brian. I have stopped hoping for a brighter, changed tomorrow for the best of humankind, and have accepted that I can only do what I can personally to make the best of what have. I've given up on the majority of people in this country. They're too immersed in politics, money and themselves. Change seems to be a four letter word. :(

riotgrl

unsung said:

What is the moral and just way to reduce population?

Easiest, most moral AND proven way to decrease population is through elevating the status of women. By educating and economically empowering women, we can ensure that women are able to control their own bodies and therefore their own course in life. Theocracies in some parts of the world are an impediment to this idea but I really like the idea of lending to women through organizations like Kiva where the money goes directly to the woman to fund her business. I also think that we have to eliminate suburbia. We have destroyed some of our best farmland in this country and we need our farmers!

brianlux

backseatLover12 said:

At least you have a positive attitude though, Brian. I have stopped hoping for a brighter, changed tomorrow for the best of humankind, and have accepted that I can only do what I can personally to make the best of what have. I've given up on the majority of people in this country. They're too immersed in politics, money and themselves. Change seems to be a four letter word. :(

Maybe this will help, backseatlover and sorry to everyone who has heard me quote this several times but one of the things that helps keep me motivated and hopeful is what Vaclav Havel said about hope. He said hope is not that conviction that things will turn out well but rather hope is the conviction to do what makes sense no matter how things turn out. I just keep plugging away with that notion in mind. I also (as I said in another thread) get recharged by watching the movie "The Dead Poets Society". That film is a major battery recharge. I'm in my sixty third year and just in the last six months or so have started to feel the wear and tear big time. Some days I have a hard time getting back up on my feet when I'm crouched down shelving the ten millionth book and my knees feel like their going to give way. Some days getting up and getting going is like trying to push start a Mac truck. So I just keep telling myself, make this day count, keep pushing, do something useful, adjust that negative attitude (and , oh boy, do I get that from time to time). That and Henry Rollins words: "Hack or pack". I hear that in my head and I go, yeah, I'm hacking!

brianlux

riotgrl said:

unsung said:

What is the moral and just way to reduce population?

Easiest, most moral AND proven way to decrease population is through elevating the status of women. By educating and economically empowering women, we can ensure that women are able to control their own bodies and therefore their own course in life. Theocracies in some parts of the world are an impediment to this idea but I really like the idea of lending to women through organizations like Kiva where the money goes directly to the woman to fund her business. I also think that we have to eliminate suburbia. We have destroyed some of our best farmland in this country and we need our farmers!

Thanks for posting about Kiva, riotgrl. I wasn't familiar with them but a quick look at their web site has me intrigued. I'll check it some more. Thanks!

chadwick

exponential growth has us near a global crash as my former math professor showed us on the white board when learning exponential growth & decay. we are within 10-20 yrs of going over the deep end if the human race keeps on keeping on like we currently are. we have never been this close to this disaster as we are nearing the tip top of the roller coaster.

our growth has climbed exponentially like a rocketship blasting straight upwards to the moon. that is not healthy & it is deadly.

brianlux

chadwick said:

exponential growth has us near a global crash as my former math professor showed us on the white board when learning exponential growth & decay. we are within 10-20 yrs of going over the deep end if the human race keeps on keeping on like we currently are. we have never been this close to this disaster as we are nearing the tip top of the roller coaster.

our growth has climbed exponentially like a rocketship blasting straight upwards to the moon. that is not healthy & it is deadly.

Exactly, Chadwick. In my biology classes we learned about carrying capacity and there was a lot of talk then about how humans were dangerously pushing themselves to the top of that scale. That was in the late 70's when the population was about 4.3 billion. We are now at 7.2 billion. We use what the earth has to offer for this many people about 2/3 of the way through each year and our numbers keep going up. Not good math.

chadwick

in years past a single man or woman were look down upon as some kind of weirdo freak show for not having a spouse & a pile of kids. today that is changing as more & more folks are staying kid/family free.

although sweden, norway, iceland or greenland one of them countries are encouraging folks to have families & if i am correct they are paying ppl to do so & they may even be paying folks to move in. this is something to look up i guess.

riotgrl

brianlux said:

chadwick said:

exponential growth has us near a global crash as my former math professor showed us on the white board when learning exponential growth & decay. we are within 10-20 yrs of going over the deep end if the human race keeps on keeping on like we currently are. we have never been this close to this disaster as we are nearing the tip top of the roller coaster.

our growth has climbed exponentially like a rocketship blasting straight upwards to the moon. that is not healthy & it is deadly.

Exactly, Chadwick. In my biology classes we learned about carrying capacity and there was a lot of talk then about how humans were dangerously pushing themselves to the top of that scale. That was in the late 70's when the population was about 4.3 billion. We are now at 7.2 billion. We use what the earth has to offer for this many people about 2/3 of the way through each year and our numbers keep going up. Not good math.

Although, to play devil's advocate for a moment, if you view carrying capacity on a global scale we are exceeding our abilities to care for each other. But if you break it down by region, we can see that Asia is the number one problem. In fact, many European nations are trying to increase their population by offering incentives for the number of children born to a woman that exceeds 1 child.

brianlux

riotgrl said:

brianlux said:

chadwick said:

exponential growth has us near a global crash as my former math professor showed us on the white board when learning exponential growth & decay. we are within 10-20 yrs of going over the deep end if the human race keeps on keeping on like we currently are. we have never been this close to this disaster as we are nearing the tip top of the roller coaster.

our growth has climbed exponentially like a rocketship blasting straight upwards to the moon. that is not healthy & it is deadly.

Exactly, Chadwick. In my biology classes we learned about carrying capacity and there was a lot of talk then about how humans were dangerously pushing themselves to the top of that scale. That was in the late 70's when the population was about 4.3 billion. We are now at 7.2 billion. We use what the earth has to offer for this many people about 2/3 of the way through each year and our numbers keep going up. Not good math.

Although, to play devil's advocate for a moment, if you view carrying capacity on a global scale we are exceeding our abilities to care for each other. But if you break it down by region, we can see that Asia is the number one problem. In fact, many European nations are trying to increase their population by offering incentives for the number of children born to a woman that exceeds 1 child.

Good point. Maybe one solution would be to adopt unwanted kids from those countries (hard to believe someone would give birth to an "unwanted kid", isn't it?) instead of having more.