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Fukushima: Worse than we ever thought?

brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
edited September 2019 in A Moving Train
This is important enough to break my boycott of the forum. This needs to be know, talked about and acted on.

“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













Post edited by brianlux on
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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    This interview with Michio Kaku is worth checking out as well:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STSmFZeE50E

    Sorry for the downer posts but something needs to be done here.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    And just so you'll all understand I'm not trying to be a scare monger:

    http://fukushimaupdate.com/all-the-best-scientifically-verified-information-on-fukushima-impacts/

    This article show that some of the information out there is lies. The situation in Fukuoka is problematic and potentially very hazardous but, no, we are not all glowing green here are the west coast. If action is taken place to get the Fukushima plants sealed, we will continue to be tan in the summer and a little pale in the winter, not bio luminescent.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,578
    Thanks Brian. Especially for the article. Really hard these days to know who or what to put stock in about anything.
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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    I'm glad I could find something positive to add to this thread, Mickey. It's a depressing subject and I feel badly for breaking my forum boycott with something so negative but I do think it's a subject that needs to be addressed.
    mickeyrat said:

    Thanks Brian. Especially for the article. Really hard these days to know who or what to put stock in about anything.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Posts: 8,661
    This is a very horrific scenario. What can the world do? Can the US or any other nation go into Japan and seal these reactors up? Unless Japan is willing to accept 1) that there's a serious problem there and 2) willing to accept that they can't fix this on their own, what can be done?
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    Last-12-Exit said:

    This is a very horrific scenario. What can the world do? Can the US or any other nation go into Japan and seal these reactors up? Unless Japan is willing to accept 1) that there's a serious problem there and 2) willing to accept that they can't fix this on their own, what can be done?

    I think the only thing 99.999999% of us can do is talk about it. A wise woman taught me that talking therapy is nothing without action so yes, it's frustrating to be only able to talk but maybe enough noise around the world will shake people up into action before Mother Nature shakes Japan again and its sayonara.

    Damn this print is small- even with "Ctrl +". But that's ok- I'll fuck up my doing my little miniscule bit.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • breakmarysfallbreakmarysfall Posts: 368
    brianlux said:

    I'm glad I could find something positive to add to this thread, Mickey. It's a depressing subject and I feel badly for breaking my forum boycott with something so negative but I do think it's a subject that needs to be addressed.

    the re-launch of the forum brought me back here and I am really glad you broke the boycott and posted what you posted.
    The happening there is indeed way too important to keep under silence. So I read through the article and wanna thank you big times...

    And I agree with a statement of yours later in this post:
    Talking will help, indeed, and drawing the attention to the subject over and over again helps, too,
    and evaluating the news wether they are faked for keeping the population calm or telling the truth, is what we all have to do ...

    Unfortunately it is difficult to get the real overview as only ten years ahead we will see the full dimension of the destruction and polution and impact that this accident caused...
    will it be too late then?
    and:
    Is it possible to guarantee the world wide energy need without using nuclear power?
    The German goverment adopted this idea and works on such an solution, no nuclear power from 2018 on, however, with the result that we increased cole mining and cole fire plants use, wich strengthen another problem of our time: global warming!!!
    uhh it is indeed a hopeless situation....

    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    breakmarysfall said:

    brianlux said:

    I'm glad I could find something positive to add to this thread, Mickey. It's a depressing subject and I feel badly for breaking my forum boycott with something so negative but I do think it's a subject that needs to be addressed.

    the re-launch of the forum brought me back here and I am really glad you broke the boycott and posted what you posted.
    The happening there is indeed way too important to keep under silence. So I read through the article and wanna thank you big times...
    Hey thanks- some things are too important to let personal hang ups (my dislike of the new forum layout) get in the way.
    breakmarysfall said:

    And I agree with a statement of yours later in this post:
    Talking will help, indeed, and drawing the attention to the subject over and over again helps, too,
    and evaluating the news wether they are faked for keeping the population calm or telling the truth, is what we all have to do ...

    Unfortunately it is difficult to get the real overview as only ten years ahead we will see the full dimension of the destruction and polution and impact that this accident caused...
    will it be too late then?
    and:
    Is it possible to guarantee the world wide energy need without using nuclear power?
    The German goverment adopted this idea and works on such an solution, no nuclear power from 2018 on, however, with the result that we increased cole mining and cole fire plants use, wich strengthen another problem of our time: global warming!!!
    uhh it is indeed a hopeless situation....

    Yeah, meeting our energy "needs" is a tough one. Learning to live with less is mostly likely the only answer.

    The immediate concern is over the Fukushima nuclear plant situation. I follow it pretty consistently and for quite a while there was little news on the subject. Lately, however, there has been a marked increase in information coming out that seems strongly to indicate the situation is bad and getting worse. The thing that would make total sense would be for all developed countries to pour as many available resources as possible at this situation. If the Daiichi plant goes to meltdown it will make Chernobyl look like a picnic. It boggles my mind that the Japanese gov. seems to be trying to push this thing under the carpet and that the US and other wealthy countries aren't speaking up and demanding action on this. Does our species really have a death wish? Not me. Lets get the word out on this.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • breakmarysfallbreakmarysfall Posts: 368
    edited January 2014
    Yeah, meeting our energy "needs" is a tough one. Learning to live with less is mostly likely the only answer.

    THANKS for bringing it just to the point! It is the only answer, period. - however, almost none wanna admit this, as it seems.

    And being a Chernobyl child - it happened so close by and had a huge impact on my innocent self, age 12 - I am worried about this technology ever since.
    But it has become a huge industry and the powerful rule the western world, even so we play jeapardy with our existance..
    so it is on us to speak out the warnings... so one more time: thanks for posting and for stopping your boykott -
    and p.s. humans have the ability to get used to things ... so I am glad we met here at the MT
    ;)
    Post edited by breakmarysfall on
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    breakmarysfall said:

    Yeah, meeting our energy "needs" is a tough one. Learning to live with less is mostly likely the only answer.

    THANKS for bringing it just to the point! It is the only answer, period. - however, almost none wanna admit this, as it seems.

    And being a Chernobyl child - it happened so close by and had a huge impact on my innocent self, age 12 - I am worried about this technology ever since.
    But it has become a huge industry and the powerful rule the western world, even so we play jeapardy with our existance..
    so it is on us to speak out the warnings... so one more time: thanks for posting and for stopping your boykott -
    I am glad we met here...
    ;)

    Hey, likewise breakmarysfall. Thanks for posting your thoughts here. I'm sorry to hear you had to deal with such a big issue earlier in your life and I hope you are well. I can't fully imagine having grown up so close to Chernobyl but I do understand to some degree. When the Three Mile Island plant nearly melted down I drove down from NY State to Pennsylvania to evacuate my grandma who lived not far from Harrisburg. I was only there a few hours and it was nothing like Chernobyl but I'll never forget the uncomfortable feeling I had being there at that time.

    Many very bright people have said that nuclear power can be safe so I'm not 100% against it but I am 99.9% sure we haven't made it safe enough yet and we certainly haven't solved the problem of dealing with spent fuel rods. Bottom line is, Fukushima is a disaster already and could get worse and proves that at this point nuclear isn't in our best interest. And we should not forget that we share this plant with many other living creatures who are affected by all this. We share this place with many other lives.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • breakmarysfallbreakmarysfall Posts: 368
    edited January 2014
    Again, Brian, really great words you found for this subject. Wow.
    Especially one point is haunting me, no matter if it is 100% safe or not:
    what to do with the "spent fuel rods" or used power equipment. Not one country that is using nuclear power has figured what to do with the waste. We just don't know where to put it, where to place it, what to do with this highly dangerious subjects (in Germany we stored it in a salt mine waste repository but only 30-40 years after, water got into the caves and now we are troubled big times because we are under time pressure and have no alternative solution)... and that worries me most.
    Imagine all the radioactive waste around the globe and no solution where to place it for eternity... not a good thought!
    Furthermore: although most plants might be safe by now, there could be always the "not possible happening" like it did in Fukushima and that is a scary thought as well....

    but/and thanks for your sympathy regarding my sort of trauma .. no worries, I got over this Chernobyl-shock and it did me no harm... I was just a bit of a sensible kid and I read too many books afterwards, discussing this technology. So all this influences formed my opinion that is still existing: I still see the danger that it might cause more then the use it might bring,
    due to:
    a relation to cancer is proven, deformations are proven, an impact on DNA is highly possible,
    and that effects ALL living... so I double your statement:

    "And we should not forget that we share this plant with many other living creatures who are affected by all this. We share this place with many other lives" .
    =D>

    hope you understand my english... nice talking, but gotta go now...
    Post edited by breakmarysfall on
    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    breakmarysfall said:

    Again, Brian, really great words you found for this subject. Wow.
    Especially one point is haunting me, no matter if it is 100% safe or not:
    what to do with the "spent fuel rods" or used power equipment. Not one country that is using nuclear power has figured what to do with the waste. We just don't know where to put it, where to place it, what to do with this highly dangerious subjects (in Germany we stored it in a salt mine waste repository but only 30-40 years after, water got into the caves and now we are troubled big times because we are under time pressure and have no alternative solution)... and that worries me most.
    Imagine all the radioactive waste around the globe and no solution where to place it for eternity... not a good thought!
    Furthermore: although most plants might be safe by now, there could be always the "not possible happening" like it did in Fukushima and that is a scary thought as well....

    but/and thanks for your sympathy regarding my sort of trauma .. no worries, I got over this Chernobyl-shock and it did me no harm... I was just a bit of a sensible kid and I read too many books afterwards, discussing this technology. So all this influences formed my opinion that is still existing: I still see the danger that it might cause more then the use it might bring,
    due to:
    a relation to cancer is proven, deformations are proven, an impact on DNA is highly possible,
    and that effects ALL living... so I double your statement:

    "And we should not forget that we share this plant with many other living creatures who are affected by all this. We share this place with many other lives" .
    =D>

    hope you understand my english... nice talking, but gotta go now...

    Yes, well said, breakmarysfall. I did not know of the nuclear waste troubles you have in Germany. I have a good friend Dieter who is in Munster and he has never mentioned this. Maybe he lives where it is not a problem?

    Thank you for great words here!

    :)
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Bronx BombersBronx Bombers Posts: 2,208
    edited January 2014
    Today, I wanted to update the American people on what we know about the situation in Japan, what we’re doing to support American citizens and the safety of our own nuclear energy, and how we are helping the Japanese people contain the damage, recover and rebuild.  

    First, we are bringing all available resources to bear to closely monitor the situation, and to protect American citizens who may be in harm’s way.  Even as Japanese responders continue to do heroic work, we know that the damage to the nuclear reactors in Fukushima Daiichi plant poses a substantial risk to people who are nearby.  That is why yesterday, we called for an evacuation of American citizens who are within 50 miles of the plant.  This decision was based upon a careful scientific evaluation and the guidelines that we would use to keep our citizens safe here in the United States, or anywhere in the world.

    Beyond this 50-mile radius, the risks do not currently call for an evacuation. But we do have a responsibility to take prudent and precautionary measures to educate those Americans who may be endangered by exposure to radiation if the situation deteriorates.  That’s why last night I authorized the voluntary departures of family members and dependents of U.S. officials working in northeastern Japan.

    All U.S. citizens in Japan should continue to carefully monitor the situation and follow the guidance of the U.S. and Japanese governments.  And those who are seeking assistance should contact our embassy and consulates, which continue to be open and operational.  

    Second, I know that many Americans are also worried about the potential risks to the United States.So I want to be very clear:  We do not expect harmful levels of radiation to reach the United States, whether it’s the West Coast, Hawaii, Alaska, or U.S. territories in the Pacific.  Let me repeat that:  We do not expect harmful levels of radiation to reach the West Coast, Hawaii, Alaska, or U.S. territories in the Pacific.  That is the judgment of our Nuclear Regulatory Commission and many other experts.

    Furthermore, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and public health experts do not recommend that people in the United States take precautionary measures beyond staying informed.  And going forward, we will continue to keep the American people fully updated -- because I believe that you must know what I know as President.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/us/politics/18obama-japan-text.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    Of course Obama had no problem though sending the USS Ronald Reagan within 10 miles of the disaster and now over 70 sailors are sick.

    http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/freedom-press-not-free/2013/dec/24/did-nsa-conceal-fukushima-meltdown-military-sent-a/
    Post edited by Bronx Bombers on
  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317
    edited January 2014
    Thanks for posting,

    Fish testing at 124 times over radiation limit caught off Fukushima

    rt.com/news/fukushima-fish-cesium-radiation-548/
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    Bronx Bombers said:

    Today, I wanted to update the American people on what we know about the situation in Japan, what we’re doing to support American citizens and the safety of our own nuclear energy, and how we are helping the Japanese people contain the damage, recover and rebuild.  

    First, we are bringing all available resources to bear to closely monitor the situation, and to protect American citizens who may be in harm’s way.  Even as Japanese responders continue to do heroic work, we know that the damage to the nuclear reactors in Fukushima Daiichi plant poses a substantial risk to people who are nearby.  That is why yesterday, we called for an evacuation of American citizens who are within 50 miles of the plant.  This decision was based upon a careful scientific evaluation and the guidelines that we would use to keep our citizens safe here in the United States, or anywhere in the world.

    Beyond this 50-mile radius, the risks do not currently call for an evacuation. But we do have a responsibility to take prudent and precautionary measures to educate those Americans who may be endangered by exposure to radiation if the situation deteriorates.  That’s why last night I authorized the voluntary departures of family members and dependents of U.S. officials working in northeastern Japan.

    All U.S. citizens in Japan should continue to carefully monitor the situation and follow the guidance of the U.S. and Japanese governments.  And those who are seeking assistance should contact our embassy and consulates, which continue to be open and operational.  

    Second, I know that many Americans are also worried about the potential risks to the United States.So I want to be very clear:  We do not expect harmful levels of radiation to reach the United States, whether it’s the West Coast, Hawaii, Alaska, or U.S. territories in the Pacific.  Let me repeat that:  We do not expect harmful levels of radiation to reach the West Coast, Hawaii, Alaska, or U.S. territories in the Pacific.  That is the judgment of our Nuclear Regulatory Commission and many other experts.

    Furthermore, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and public health experts do not recommend that people in the United States take precautionary measures beyond staying informed.  And going forward, we will continue to keep the American people fully updated -- because I believe that you must know what I know as President.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/17/us/politics/18obama-japan-text.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

    Of course Obama had no problem though sending the USS Ronald Reagan within 10 miles of the disaster and now over 70 sailors are sick.

    http://communities.washingtontimes.com/neighborhood/freedom-press-not-free/2013/dec/24/did-nsa-conceal-fukushima-meltdown-military-sent-a/

    This reminds me of one of those catastrophe movies where the president comes on TV and says, "Just stay calm everybody, everything will be alright." Of course I don't want people to panic or pull their hair out and scream- well, that might be fun- or have some politician come on and tell us we're screwed, but I would like hearing him say, "This is some serious shit and we're going to do everything we can to help stabilize the situation". We need to hear that action is taken and we need some confirmation not some more denial.

    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • breakmarysfallbreakmarysfall Posts: 368
    thanks Brian for the supporting words regarding my words :) -DITO-

    as I will be again gone for a few days I throw one more in for the way:

    If someone consider the Solution of "SPACE 1999" regarding the nuclear waste and atomic bombs, we learned already that this is not to recommend: what would earth do without the moon - lost in space?

    So what could be the solution? For sure we need to get as creative as the show itself but in another direction, I assume...

    there is no way to peace, peace is the way!
    ...the world is come undone, I like to change it everyday but change don't come at once, it's a wave, building before it breaks.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    edited September 2019
    Some pretty serious news here:


    Japan may have to dump radioactive Fukushima water into the ocean because it's out of storage space


    Living on the west coast of the U.S., "downwind" and "downstream" so to speak from the radiation released following the Fukushima disaster, I've kept watch on this story fairly regularly and noticed that it's one that's been often downplayed by a lot of major media. I'm not into sensationalist news, fear mongering, or stirring the poop, but the fact is, this is a hugely serious problem that well ought to involve international efforts to alleviate thee dangers as much as possible. This is one of those stories that too often has been brushed aside- don't talk about it, don't think about it, and it will just go away. Nope. Not gonna happen. Every effort from every first world country needs to go into helping deal with this. No more heads in the sand!



    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    very serious topic .... buuuuuuuuut


  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 1,613
    The world is polluted to an almost toxic level and everyone is more concerned that the orange ass tweets to John Legends wife. Thank you for bringing this back up. 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    edited September 2019
    pearljammr78 said:
    The world is polluted to an almost toxic level and everyone is more concerned that the orange ass tweets to John Legends wife. Thank you for bringing this back up. 
    I guess a lot of people find it easier to deal with distracting (pathetic though they are) Orange Clown issues than serious toxicity in the oceans and the cascade affect of other issue that could cause. 

    Oh crap!  Is it "affect" or "effect"?  I never seem to get those right, lol.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • oftenreadingoftenreading Posts: 12,845
    brianlux said:
    pearljammr78 said:
    The world is polluted to an almost toxic level and everyone is more concerned that the orange ass tweets to John Legends wife. Thank you for bringing this back up. 
    I guess a lot of people find it easier to deal with distracting (pathetic though they are) Orange Clown issues than serious toxicity in the oceans and the cascade affect of other issue that could cause. 

    Oh crap!  Is it "affect" or "effect"?  I never seem to get those right, lol.
    It’s effect in that instance, Brian. Effect is (usually) a noun, affect is (usually) a verb, so Trump affects the world in a negative fashion and we feel the nauseating effects of his bloviating tweets. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 1,613
    oftenreading said:
    brianlux said:
    pearljammr78 said:
    The world is polluted to an almost toxic level and everyone is more concerned that the orange ass tweets to John Legends wife. Thank you for bringing this back up. 
    I guess a lot of people find it easier to deal with distracting (pathetic though they are) Orange Clown issues than serious toxicity in the oceans and the cascade affect of other issue that could cause. 

    Oh crap!  Is it "affect" or "effect"?  I never seem to get those right, lol.
    It’s effect in that instance, Brian. Effect is (usually) a noun, affect is (usually) a verb, so Trump affects the world in a negative fashion and we feel the nauseating effects of his bloviating tweets. 
    That makes sense. I’ve been wondering the same things with my posts. Effects or affects. Lol. I will use this post as reference from here on out. Thank you
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • bootlegger10bootlegger10 Posts: 15,939
    It is hard to have any faith in humanity right now.  
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    edited September 2019
    The oceans are the worlds dumping grounds.  From plastic, radiation and untreated raw sewage and much more.  The world will do nothing but hold another conference or whatnot.  Might as well just enjoy the ride at point.
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    oftenreading said:
    brianlux said:
    pearljammr78 said:
    The world is polluted to an almost toxic level and everyone is more concerned that the orange ass tweets to John Legends wife. Thank you for bringing this back up. 
    I guess a lot of people find it easier to deal with distracting (pathetic though they are) Orange Clown issues than serious toxicity in the oceans and the cascade affect of other issue that could cause. 

    Oh crap!  Is it "affect" or "effect"?  I never seem to get those right, lol.
    It’s effect in that instance, Brian. Effect is (usually) a noun, affect is (usually) a verb, so Trump affects the world in a negative fashion and we feel the nauseating effects of his bloviating tweets. 
    Brilliant!  Thank you.  :smile:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,024
    Meltdown99 said:
    The oceans are the worlds dumping grounds.  From plastic, radiation and untreated raw sewage and much more.  The world will do nothing but hold another conference or whatnot.  Might as well just enjoy the ride at point.
    Weird and terrible, isn't it?  I guess a lot of humans think of the oceans as  gigantic toilet bowls.  Sorry humanity, the planet has no place for the effluence to go- no global septic tank.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 Posts: 10,739
    Humans are the worst species on earth...and fucking humans aren't smart enough to stop breeding...


    Give Peas A Chance…
  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 1,613
    But making babies feels so good. Lol
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
  • SmellymanSmellyman Posts: 4,524
    pearljammr78 said:
    The world is polluted to an almost toxic level and everyone is more concerned that the orange ass tweets to John Legends wife. Thank you for bringing this back up. 
    And the orange ass is also responsible for rolling back so many environmental protections.  Crazy how somebody could give two shits about the environment and people, has 30% of Americans licking his nuts.
  • pearljammr78pearljammr78 Posts: 1,613
    All he cares about is himself and his brand. He is such a tremendous douche bag and a crook. It’s pathetic anyone still believes a word out of his mouth. It’s also pathetic that the media is more concerned with his tweets about them instead of the whole basis of our existence(the earth). 
    Peace,Love and Pearl Jam.
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