Gearing up for war?

brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
edited December 2013 in A Moving Train
The recent news out of East Asia is cause for concern- a US war with China (any combination of US/China/Japan) would not be a small skirmish.

Thoughts?

http://news.yahoo.com/u-sends-submarine ... nance.html

U.S. sends new submarine-hunting jets to Japan amid East Asia tension

TOKYO (Reuters) - The U.S. Navy's first advanced P-8 Poseidon patrol aircraft has arrived in Japan, the start of a deployment that will upgrade America's ability to hunt submarines and other vessels in seas close to China as tension in the region mounts.

The deployment, planned before China last month established an air defense zone covering islands controlled by Japan and claimed by Beijing, includes six aircraft to be delivered to Kadena air base on Okinawa this month.

The first arrived on Sunday, a spokesman for the U.S. Navy told Reuters. The mission in the waters west of Japan's main islands will be the new aircraft's first anywhere.

The jet, built by Boeing Co based on its 737 passenger plane, has been built to replace the aging propeller-powered Lockheed Martin P-3 Orion patrol aircraft, which has been in service for 50 years.

Packed with the latest radar equipment and armed with torpedoes and anti-ship missiles, the P-8 is able to fly further and stay out on mission longer than the P-3.

The arrival of the P-8 came a day before U.S. Vice President Joe Biden is due to arrive in Tokyo, a visit that is being overshadowed by the territorial spat in the East China Sea between Japan and China.

While taking no position on the sovereignty of the islands known to the Japanese as the Senkakus and to the Chinese as the Daioyu, it does recognize Japanese control and therefore part of territory it would defend under a security pact with Japan.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    there is no chance china and the US would go to war ...

    countries are too intertwined ... huge chunk of chinese economy is in manufacturing shitty things for consumption in the world's biggest consumption economy ... factor in how much US debt is actually owned by China and you got no chance for war ...
  • polaris_x wrote:
    there is no chance china and the US would go to war ...

    countries are too intertwined ... huge chunk of chinese economy is in manufacturing shitty things for consumption in the world's biggest consumption economy ... factor in how much US debt is actually owned by China and you got no chance for war ...

    Bomb your largest creditor? Its a strategy alright!
    RDS Dublin - Aug 26 1995 (Neil Young with Pearl Jam)
    Millstreet Arena - Oct 24, 1996
    The Point - Oct 26, 1996
    The Point - Jun 01, 2000
    The Point - Aug 23, 2006
    Wembley Arena - Jun 18, 2007
    Manchester Evening News Arena - Aug 17, 2009
    The O2 - Jun 22, 2010
    Odyssey Arena - Jun 23, 2010
    Manchester Evening News Arena - Jun 20 2012
    Amsterdam Ziggo Dome - Jun 26 2012
    Amsterdam Ziggo Dome - Jun 16 2014
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    every country in the world PROBABLY looks at obama and thinks......yeah I can kick his ass. :lol:
    I know it's no laughing matter but I seriously believe they think obama has made this country a weaker target.
    that's just my OPINION.


    Godfather.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 38,605
    Godfather. wrote:
    every country in the world PROBABLY looks at obama and thinks......yeah I can kick his ass. :lol:
    I know it's no laughing matter but I seriously believe they think obama has made this country a weaker target.
    that's just my OPINION.


    Godfather.
    interesting, the one pres who has ordered more targeted assassinations than any other.

    Was roosevelt weak before or after pearl harbor? enter a world war in the midst of a depression?

    Kennedy weal during the cuban missle crisis?

    Shit Reagan just spent a bunch of YOUR GRANDCHILDRENS money back in the 80's, we're still paying that shit off from then.

    Bush Sr weak for adhereing to UN mandate in regards to Iraq and expelling them for Kuwait?


    A country that still spends 50+ cents of every dollar on defense is weak.

    Gotcha, Thanks for sharing your opinion.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Godfather. wrote:
    every country in the world PROBABLY looks at obama and thinks......yeah I can kick his ass. :lol:
    I know it's no laughing matter but I seriously believe they think obama has made this country a weaker target.
    that's just my OPINION.


    Godfather.

    yeah, cause spying on your allies and bombing innocents with drones is seen as weak. :fp:
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • I don't see war with China happening. But if it did......take cover.
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    War today is almost always, inevitably about oil. Digging a little deeper, I found this:

    The dispute is part of the ebb and flow of regional power in a tense corner of the world, where China, Japan and Taiwan all lay claim to the islands. While uninhabited, the islands’ surrounding waters are rich in fish, natural gas and oil.

    from this article:

    http://swampland.time.com/2013/11/25/me ... from-iran/
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • unsungunsung Posts: 9,487
    There is ALWAYS a bad guy.
  • IdrisIdris Posts: 2,317
    Godfather. wrote:
    every country in the world PROBABLY looks at obama and thinks......yeah I can kick his ass. :lol:
    I know it's no laughing matter but I seriously believe they think obama has made this country a weaker target.
    that's just my OPINION.


    Godfather.

    yeah, cause spying on your allies and bombing innocents with drones is seen as weak. :fp:

    If it's not seen as 'weak', it should be.

    It takes a weak man to resort to dropping bombs on innocent people and not trusting ones 'friends/allies', that's not a person of strength, rather a person who lacks real strength and decent character. If anything his actions have proven or shown/uncovered his many weaknesses.

    and by doing so made this country a 'stronger target'.
  • Not sure if I read this article from a previous thread on here, if so, I apologize for not remembering. I thought it was a really good article though.
    http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/201 ... tw-nytimes
    Washington DC 2008
    Charlotte NC 2013
    Greenville SC 2016
    Wrigley 1 2018
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    retropony wrote:
    Not sure if I read this article from a previous thread on here, if so, I apologize for not remembering. I thought it was a really good article though.
    http://www.nytimes.com/newsgraphics/201 ... tw-nytimes

    Yes, very good article.

    Again, it seems to be all about the oil. Burn baby burn. Things are heating up. :(
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Godfather. wrote:
    every country in the world PROBABLY looks at obama and thinks......yeah I can kick his ass. :lol:
    I know it's no laughing matter but I seriously believe they think obama has made this country a weaker target.
    that's just my OPINION.


    Godfather.

    Another opinion, gained from the World of cartoons and personal fantasies. Though I see that you've bolded the word 'opinion', as if your gibberish is something that you're actually proud of. Weird.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Idris wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    every country in the world PROBABLY looks at obama and thinks......yeah I can kick his ass. :lol:
    I know it's no laughing matter but I seriously believe they think obama has made this country a weaker target.
    that's just my OPINION.


    Godfather.

    yeah, cause spying on your allies and bombing innocents with drones is seen as weak. :fp:

    If it's not seen as 'weak', it should be.

    It takes a weak man to resort to dropping bombs on innocent people and not trusting ones 'friends/allies', that's not a person of strength, rather a person who lacks real strength and decent character. If anything his actions have proven or shown/uncovered his many weaknesses.

    and by doing so made this country a 'stronger target'.

    You make it sound as if the U.S and it's foreign policy is governed by a single 'person'. Do you really believe that?
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Godfather. wrote:
    every country in the world PROBABLY looks at obama and thinks......yeah I can kick his ass. :lol:
    I know it's no laughing matter but I seriously believe they think obama has made this country a weaker target.
    that's just my OPINION.


    Godfather.

    yeah, cause spying on your allies and bombing innocents with drones is seen as weak. :fp:



    ohhhh geeeze I'm sorry I forgot about you and all your wisdom,next time I will run my opinion past you in a PM first just to make sure it's o.k.......RIGHT ! :lol:


    Godfather.
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    every country in the world PROBABLY looks at obama and thinks......yeah I can kick his ass. :lol:
    I know it's no laughing matter but I seriously believe they think obama has made this country a weaker target.
    that's just my OPINION.


    Godfather.

    Another opinion, gained from the World of cartoons and personal fantasies. Though I see that you've bolded the word 'opinion', as if your gibberish is something that you're actually proud of. Weird.


    go home and tell your mother she wants you.

    Godfather.
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Godfather. wrote:

    go home and tell your mother she wants you.

    Godfather.

    Err...o.k. :?
  • Idris wrote:
    If it's not seen as 'weak', it should be.

    It takes a weak man to resort to dropping bombs on innocent people and not trusting ones 'friends/allies', that's not a person of strength, rather a person who lacks real strength and decent character. If anything his actions have proven or shown/uncovered his many weaknesses.

    and by doing so made this country a 'stronger target'.

    I agree, however, that's how the world's POWERS have been doing business for centuries. for example, most of the world thinks that capturing Saddam and hanging him in a back room was something to celebrate. I saw it as cowardly. Unfortunately, most of the US think it was an act of patriotic heroism.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • Godfather. wrote:
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    every country in the world PROBABLY looks at obama and thinks......yeah I can kick his ass. :lol:
    I know it's no laughing matter but I seriously believe they think obama has made this country a weaker target.
    that's just my OPINION.


    Godfather.

    Another opinion, gained from the World of cartoons and personal fantasies. Though I see that you've bolded the word 'opinion', as if your gibberish is something that you're actually proud of. Weird.


    go home and tell your mother she wants you.

    Godfather.

    :?
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • puremagicpuremagic Posts: 1,907
    Diversion. Biden vs Hillary [Biden needs updated foreign exposure.] It’s not about the islands, it’s about the air/sea corridors. What is international and what is China’s? Biden’s putting alot on the line with this intervention. If he fails, he’s out and the Republicans will only have Hillary to contend with.

    The place to watch is the Ukriane. John McCain put all his clout behind Georgia and Georgia failed, now you have the largest black market operation and Chechnya in danger of having Russian oversight again. This could get really, really nasty because both Chechnya, the Ukrane and Russia have very, very close ties to China.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    puremagic wrote:
    Diversion. Biden vs Hillary [Biden needs updated foreign exposure.] It’s not about the islands, it’s about the air/sea corridors. What is international and what is China’s? Biden’s putting alot on the line with this intervention. If he fails, he’s out and the Republicans will only have Hillary to contend with.
    It's Smokin' Joe! What could go wrong?

    :P

    (and now time for my favorite non-onion joe photo .....)

    10caucus-biden2-blog480.jpg
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Not a big deal.
    The P-8 is a maritime patrol plane.
    th?id=H.4567780555751859&pid=15.1

    Ever seen what it's replacing... the P-3 Orion?
    P-3_Sean_Wilson.jpg
    It's a Lockheed L-188 Electra outfitted for maritime operations. So, it is basically swapping out a modern day Boeing 737 for a plane that TWA used in the 1960s.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Godfather. wrote:
    every country in the world PROBABLY looks at obama and thinks......yeah I can kick his ass. :lol:
    I know it's no laughing matter but I seriously believe they think obama has made this country a weaker target.
    that's just my OPINION.


    Godfather.
    ...
    Hmmmmm...
    ...
    Ummmm....
    Aaaahh... er.... oooookay....
    ....
    Hmmmmm...
    ...
    Let me guess... you're really NOT 'The Godfather', are you?
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    Cosmo wrote:
    Not a big deal.
    The P-8 is a maritime patrol plane.
    th?id=H.4567780555751859&pid=15.1

    Ever seen what it's replacing... the P-3 Orion?
    P-3_Sean_Wilson.jpg
    It's a Lockheed L-188 Electra outfitted for maritime operations. So, it is basically swapping out a modern day Boeing 737 for a plane that TWA used in the 1960s.

    A little off subject here but it's interesting to see these photos. I grew up about a mile from Moffett Federal Airfield and watched those P-3 fly by our house multiple times every day. One of them went down one time and was a total loss and besides the loss of human life, the US Navy said the loss of equipment was beyond being able to describe in dollars. They could not put a price on the loss of the technology on board at the time. So now what do you suppose they are carrying in those P-8's? :shock:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    brianlux wrote:
    A little off subject here but it's interesting to see these photos. I grew up about a mile from Moffett Federal Airfield and watched those P-3 fly by our house multiple times every day. One of them went down one time and was a total loss and besides the loss of human life, the US Navy said the loss of equipment was beyond being able to describe in dollars. They could not put a price on the loss of the technology on board at the time. So now what do you suppose they are carrying in those P-8's? :shock:
    ...
    They basically carry sophisticated listening devices that can detect nuclear submarines. Nuclear powered submarines do not produce a lot of sound and it is extremely difficult to detect a heat signature through salt water. The best bet is trying to pickup the sound of the propulsion system, which today's modern submarines can cloak pretty effectively.
    A lot of the devices onboard are probably pretty much the same... it's the airframe that is different. Spare parts for Boeing 737 are abundant, as are the mechanics that can work on them. Parts for the P-8 are getting scarce and ther mechanics are getting old.
    It's like replacing your 1958 Rambler Sedan with a 2014 Honda Accord. More spare parts are available and so are people who can work on a Honda.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    Cosmo wrote:
    brianlux wrote:
    A little off subject here but it's interesting to see these photos. I grew up about a mile from Moffett Federal Airfield and watched those P-3 fly by our house multiple times every day. One of them went down one time and was a total loss and besides the loss of human life, the US Navy said the loss of equipment was beyond being able to describe in dollars. They could not put a price on the loss of the technology on board at the time. So now what do you suppose they are carrying in those P-8's? :shock:
    ...
    They basically carry sophisticated listening devices that can detect nuclear submarines. Nuclear powered submarines do not produce a lot of sound and it is extremely difficult to detect a heat signature through salt water. The best bet is trying to pickup the sound of the propulsion system, which today's modern submarines can cloak pretty effectively.
    A lot of the devices onboard are probably pretty much the same... it's the airframe that is different. Spare parts for Boeing 737 are abundant, as are the mechanics that can work on them. Parts for the P-8 are getting scarce and ther mechanics are getting old.
    It's like replacing your 1958 Rambler Sedan with a 2014 Honda Accord. More spare parts are available and so are people who can work on a Honda.

    Fascinating. Sounds like you know a good bit about aircraft, Cosmo.

    Now if we could just use them for making peace instead of war (although there is a good argument for good defense.)
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Cosmo wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    every country in the world PROBABLY looks at obama and thinks......yeah I can kick his ass. :lol:
    I know it's no laughing matter but I seriously believe they think obama has made this country a weaker target.
    that's just my OPINION.


    Godfather.
    ...
    Hmmmmm...
    ...
    Ummmm....
    Aaaahh... er.... oooookay....
    ....
    Hmmmmm...
    ...
    Let me guess... you're really NOT 'The Godfather', are you?


    cat got your tung ?

    I never wanted this for you..I was hopeing that someday you would be the one pulling the strings...... :lol:


    so all jokes aside you think my opinion of the world seeing this country as a weaker target is wrong ?
    yeah sure obama has prolonged a war and o.k'ed droan strikes but he also is sleeping with the wrong people
    and destorying this country ....obama buck by obama buck and some of the people on here just refuse to see it and find any reason to back up his lies and constant blunders (bring on the personal attacks).
    but all n all I must admit that reading the "look how smart I am" post's from a few on here is quite enteraining...you on the other hand are one of the few who seem to have any real knowledge on some topics ..with a heaping helping of sarcasim but that's not to say your sometimes personal attacks are not noticed and they are enjoyed just for the well worded humor in them but at the end of the day the obama believers will still believe and some of us will not.


    Godfather.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Godfather. wrote:
    Cosmo wrote:
    Godfather. wrote:
    every country in the world PROBABLY looks at obama and thinks......yeah I can kick his ass. :lol:
    I know it's no laughing matter but I seriously believe they think obama has made this country a weaker target.
    that's just my OPINION.


    Godfather.
    ...
    Hmmmmm...
    ...
    Ummmm....
    Aaaahh... er.... oooookay....
    ....
    Hmmmmm...
    ...
    Let me guess... you're really NOT 'The Godfather', are you?


    cat got your tung ?

    I never wanted this for you..I was hopeing that someday you would be the one pulling the strings...... :lol:


    so all jokes aside you think my opinion of the world seeing this country as a weaker target is wrong ?
    yeah sure obama has prolonged a war and o.k'ed droan strikes but he also is sleeping with the wrong people
    and destorying this country ....obama buck by obama buck and some of the people on here just refuse to see it and find any reason to back up his lies and constant blunders (bring on the personal attacks).
    but all n all I must admit that reading the "look how smart I am" post's from a few on here is quite enteraining...you on the other hand are one of the few who seem to have any real knowledge on some topics ..with a heaping helping of sarcasim but that's not to say your sometimes personal attacks are not noticed and they are enjoyed just for the well worded humor in them but at the end of the day the obama believers will still believe and some of us will not.


    Godfather.
    ...
    Sir... I'm just saying that opinions that are based in fact on a foundation of truth hold more weight that an opinion based upon emotion alone.
    That's all. So, please, do not take it personally. I think you're an okay guy.. you know, a descent 'Reg'lur Joe'. But, i also think that you might want to learn more about U.S. Government 101, U.S. History (beyond what we are taught in elementary school), World History 101 and Political Science 101 to form a political opinion that applies to real world politics, rather than OpEd rantings.
    ...
    Go Chargers!

    P.S. If the world does, in fact, believe that America is weakening... it is probably because of what they have witnessed in Iraq and Afghanistan and understand what that has done to the American psyche. The reason why Americans do not want our troops sent in to Libya or Syria is because we've seen that movie already and it sucked ass.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Godfather.Godfather. Posts: 12,504
    Cosmo I must admit that my statement was more of an angry jab towards obama :mrgreen:
    military contracts are slowing in the aerospace field and obama and the lack of work seem to be the topic lately
    around the water cooler but I have to say that every president (except Clinton) that I am aware of gets the blame for joblessness..guess it just depends on which liar you voted for when slinging the mud of blame. :lol:


    Godfather.
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Godfather. wrote:
    Cosmo I must admit that my statement was more of an angry jab towards obama :mrgreen:
    military contracts are slowing in the aerospace field and obama and the lack of work seem to be the topic lately
    around the water cooler but I have to say that every president (except Clinton) that I am aware of gets the blame for joblessness..guess it just depends on which liar you voted for when slinging the mud of blame. :lol:

    Godfather.
    ...
    The Aerospace contracts are being reduced because the strategic planning of war has changed. We are probably not going to see the type of warfare we saw in Afghanistan and Iraq. Advanced fighters are not needed in places like that because these types of enemies we will be facing do not have air forces. We will go into those conflicts with air supremacy from the start.
    More money is being spent on stealthier attacks based upon covert intelligence.
    ...
    We still will need a conventional force in order to fight a possible future war against a China or a Russia or Europe or Israel... those nation with a viable fighting force. But, our tactics will be changing to turn their weapons on themselves or rendering them to operate in a standalone mode and easier to kill.
    But, yes, the days of thousands of mechanics uilding hundreds of airplane are gone... because the days of the manned fighter aircraft are waning.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
Sign In or Register to comment.