in the CFL, there's a team called the Edmonton Eskimos, which is a term that has been deemed offensive and no longer in use in Canadian culture; instead, Inuit is the proper term. But there's never been a big hullabaloo about it, maybe because they don't have an igloo-dwelling seal clubber as a mascot, but who knows.
Maybe the seal clubbers don't watch football.
"Eskimo" has been deemed offensive???? I feel like Walter after Smokie marked it an eight ...
Sport team names used to intimidate. Interesting theory. Lets put you theory to a test. HFD. Starting with MLB baseball teams, which names instil intimidation:
Boston Red Sox
Atlanta Braves
New York Yankees
Philadelphia Phillies
Toronto Blue Jays
New York Mets
Baltimore Orioles
Florida Marlins
Tampa Bay Devil Rays
Washington Nationals
Chicago White Sox
St. Louis Cardinals
Cleveland Indians
Houston Astros
Minnesota Twins
Milwaukee Brewers
Detroit Tigers
Chicago Cubs
Kansas City Royals
Cincinnati Reds
Pittsburgh Pirates
Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
San Diego Padres
Oakland Athletics
San Francisco Giants
Texas Rangers
Arizona Diamondbacks
Seattle Mariners
Los Angeles Dodgers
Colorado Rockies
What- maybe 8 out of 30? Not very scary although I've gotta admit- Angels- pretty fucking scary.
OK, let's try a tougher sport- US football:
Baltimore Ravens
Buffalo Bills
Cincinnati Bengals
Cleveland Browns
Denver Broncos
Houston Texans
Indianapolis Colts
Jacksonville Jaguars
Kansas City Chiefs
Miami Dolphins
New England Patriots
New York Jets
Oakland Raiders
Pittsburgh Steelers
San Diego Chargers
Tennessee Titans
Arizona Cardinals
Atlanta Falcons
Carolina Panthers
Chicago Bears
Dallas Cowboys
Detroit Lions
Green Bay Packers
Minnesota Vikings
New Orleans Saints
New York Giants
Philadelphia Eagles
San Francisco 49ers
Seattle Seahawks
St. Louis Rams
Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Washington Redskins
OK, maybe 17 or 18 out of 32 but even then, only a little over half. Sorry, Hugh, not a passing grade.
I didn't say ALL teams use it as a way of intimidation. But it is a factor.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
in the CFL, there's a team called the Edmonton Eskimos, which is a term that has been deemed offensive and no longer in use in Canadian culture; instead, Inuit is the proper term. But there's never been a big hullabaloo about it, maybe because they don't have an igloo-dwelling seal clubber as a mascot, but who knows.
Maybe the seal clubbers don't watch football.
"Eskimo" has been deemed offensive???? I feel like Walter after Smokie marked it an eight ...
Do they still sell Eskimo Pies up there?
I don't know, to be honest. and yes, Eskimo is not a term used anymore.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
"Eskimo" has been deemed offensive???? I feel like Walter after Smokie marked it an eight ...
In Canada and Greenland the term Eskimo is widely held by the indigenous peoples to be pejorative and has fallen out of favour, largely supplanted by the term Inuit.[1][12][14][17] However, while Inuit describes all of the Eskimo peoples in Canada and Greenland, that is not true in Alaska and Siberia. In Alaska the term Eskimo is commonly used, because it includes both Yupik and Inupiat, while Inuit is not accepted as a collective term or even specifically used for Inupiat (who technically are Inuit). No universal term other than Eskimo, inclusive of all Inuit and Yupik people, exists for the Inuit and Yupik peoples.[1]
In 1977, the Inuit Circumpolar Conference meeting in Barrow, Alaska, officially adopted Inuit as a designation for all circumpolar native peoples, regardless of their local view on an appropriate term. As a result the Canadian government usage has replaced the (locally) defunct term Eskimo with Inuit (Inuk in singular). The preferred term in Canada's Central Arctic is Inuinnaq,[18] and in the eastern Canadian Arctic Inuit. The language is often called Inuktitut, though other local designations are also used.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
It will be interesting in 50 years when our great-grandkids look down on us for fighting to keep Redskins and other Native nicknames the way we look down on ours for using the old N-Bomb...we'll be in some nursing home when little bobby and sue roll their eyes at old racist grandad who just can't get over the loss of his beloved nicknames. jesus just give it up it's a friggin' name that will be forgotten in 20 years. if you think i'm lying try teaching 9/11 shit to kids who were in the 4th grade when it happened...they have no idea and have other things to care about.
For the sake of argument, I'm surprised that the 'Yankees' aren't facing some pressure from some Americans about their name. There must be some southerners holding some animosity towards the term. Likewise, I'm sure some northerners do not appreciate the term as well.
They are on the outrage docket slated for 2019. Upcoming high-horse social outrage debates are:
2015: Indians and Braves
2017: Padres
2019: Yankees
2021: Jets
2023: Any animal nickname
For the sake of argument, I'm surprised that the 'Yankees' aren't facing some pressure from some Americans about their name. There must be some southerners holding some animosity towards the term. Likewise, I'm sure some northerners do not appreciate the term as well.
They are on the outrage docket slated for 2019. Upcoming high-horse social outrage debates are:
2015: Indians and Braves
2017: Padres
2019: Yankees
2021: Jets
2023: Any animal nickname
'Outrage docket'
'high-horse social outrage debates'
here's the deal names like the yankees, fighting irish, canucks, and habs have been and can be used derogatorily, but they actually represent the people who make up the name and root for the team (or make a majority of those enrolled at the school). Things like Seminoles and Redskins are largely supported by white people who have no idea what actual native traditions are, otherwise they wouldn't fucking do a tomahawk chop, riding white horses to midfield with a flaming spear, or have a name that has been deemed legally racist by our government representing a team that plays under the backdrop of our government. Put differently it would be like having a team on an Indian Reservation, cheered on by Indians, named the Catholics. Only their mascot would come to midfield with a flaming cross and plant it there before games, and hump little boys. That'd be fun :roll:
here's the deal names like the yankees, fighting irish, canucks, and habs have been and can be used derogatorily, but they actually represent the people who make up the name and root for the team (or make a majority of those enrolled at the school). Things like Seminoles and Redskins are largely supported by white people who have no idea what actual native traditions are, otherwise they wouldn't fucking do a tomahawk chop, riding white horses to midfield with a flaming spear, or have a name that has been deemed legally racist by our government representing a team that plays under the backdrop of our government. Put differently it would be like having a team on an Indian Reservation, cheered on by Indians, named the Catholics. Only their mascot would come to midfield with a flaming cross and plant it there before games, and hump little boys. That'd be fun :roll:
There was never any doubt where the Seminole Tribe of Florida stood on Florida State University's nickname. The tribe helped university boosters create the costume for the Chief Osceola mascot, approving the face paint, flaming spear and Appaloosa horse that have no connection to Seminole history.
Yesterday, the National Collegiate Athletic Association agreed with the 3,100-member tribe and the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, which had also endorsed the nickname. The N.C.A.A. removed Florida State from the list of universities banned from using what it called "hostile and abusive" mascots and nicknames during postseason play.
"The N.C.A.A. executive committee continues to believe the stereotyping of Native Americans is wrong," Bernard Franklin, the association's senior vice president for governance and membership, said in a statement. "However, in its review of the particular circumstances regarding Florida State, the staff review committee noted the unique relationship between the university and the Seminole Tribe of Florida as a significant factor."
A student dressed as Chief Osceola will ride bareback on the Appaloosa horse Renegade to midfield before the season opener against Miami on Sept. 5 in a ceremony indigenous to only Doak Campbell Stadium in Tallahassee.
"The N.C.A.A. recognizes the many different points of view on this matter, particularly within the Native American community," Franklin added. "The decision of a namesake sovereign tribe, regarding when and how its name and imagery can be used, must be respected even when others may not agree."
On Aug. 5, the N.C.A.A. executive committee issued the ban, which is scheduled to go into effect in February. The prohibition concerns logos, signs in stadiums, cheerleader and band uniforms, and mascots.
"It's not about an effort to be politically correct," Myles Brand, the president of the N.C.A.A., said in a statement when the ban was announced. "It is about doing the right thing."
Florida State's president, T. K. Wetherell, immediately protested the ban.
"That the N.C.A.A. would now label our close bond with the Seminole people as culturally 'hostile and abusive' is both outrageous and insulting," he said in a statement.
Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida said, "The folks that make these decisions need to get out more often." He added that it was offensive to "the Seminole Indian tribe who support the traditions of F.S.U."
After an emergency meeting, the university Board of Trustees filed an appeal with the N.C.A.A. The hearing was held this week, and the decision was announced yesterday.
Because of the pressure from Florida State and other members, the N.C.A.A. said last Friday that it would consider appeals of the ban on a case-by-case basis. The ban would affect 17 other universities with American Indian nicknames or mascots, including Illinois (Illini) and North Dakota (Fighting Sioux).
Support for Florida State is obvious at the Seminole Tribe's showcase Okalee Indian Village in Hollywood, Fla. The village is a small, modern, concrete zoo on the site of the tribe's Hard Rock Casino, adjacent to an Improv comedy club. Under chickees, grass huts that fan out around a cooking pit, women sew patchwork dresses while sitting on garnet-colored nylon F.S.U. football folding chairs.
Seminoles descended from Creek Indians who lived by rivers in Georgia and Alabama. In the 1800's, the federal government torched trees and crops on Indian land, forcing hundreds of Indians south into Florida, where they mixed with aboriginal tribes. Thousands of other Indians were captured and forced to march to Oklahoma along what became known as the Trail of Tears. Continued conflict with the federal government pushed the surviving Seminoles farther down the Florida peninsula, into the Everglades.
The Seminoles are the only American Indian tribe never to sign a formal peace treaty with the United States. To celebrate this status, Florida State erected "Unconquered," a statue of the Chief Osceola mascot, outside its football stadium.
Tribe members survived for a time by selling otter pelts and alligator skins to white settlers in Fort Lauderdale and Miami. When South Florida tourism boomed in the 1920's, Seminoles capitalized by wrestling alligators for money. In 1979, the Seminoles opened the first casino on Indian land, ushering in what has become a multibillion-dollar industry operated by numerous tribes nationwide.
The Miccosukee Tribe of Indians of Florida split from the Seminoles in the early 1960's, setting up a 33-acre reservation on the northern border of Everglades National Park, about 45 miles west of Miami. As an independent tribe with historical links to the Seminoles, the Miccosukee could have endorsed the N.C.A.A. nickname ban and forced Florida State to comply. But they did not want to.
"The Seminole name, it just makes you pretty much better," said one female Miccosukee, who had a "NOLES" vanity plate on the front bumper of her husband's Ford F-150. She refused to give her name; public comments are what tribal leaders are for, she said.
There are about 550 Miccosukee. Most live in a straight line of concrete houses along the Old Tamiami Trail. The houses overlook miles of sawgrass broken up by hammocks of pine and cypress trees. Fat gray clouds carry summer thunderstorms toward Miami. White herons glide among the hammocks, flying over deer, alligators and otters concealed in the grass.
Throughout the reservation, loyalty to Florida State is declared on mailboxes with "FSU #1 FAN" stickers, and on pickup trucks with vanity plates. A gold tomahawk leans against the facade of one house, next to a small concrete football player rushing over a field of crushed garnet stones.
Affection for the Seminoles is not absolute. Several houses feature University of Miami mailboxes and banners. Joe Cypress, who called himself an "original Seminole," lives on the reservation with his Miccosukee wife and said he had been a Hurricanes fan all his life.
"It don't bother me," he said of the Seminoles nickname and of his neighbors who support Florida State. "We coexist."
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
It will be interesting in 50 years when our great-grandkids look down on us for fighting to keep Redskins and other Native nicknames the way we look down on ours for using the old N-Bomb...we'll be in some nursing home when little bobby and sue roll their eyes at old racist grandad who just can't get over the loss of his beloved nicknames. jesus just give it up it's a friggin' name that will be forgotten in 20 years. if you think i'm lying try teaching 9/11 shit to kids who were in the 4th grade when it happened...they have no idea and have other things to care about.
He who forgets will be destined to remember
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
There are Native American schools that call their teams Redskins. The term is used affectionately by some natives, similar to the way the N-word is used by some African-Americans. In the only recent poll to ask native people about the subject, 90 percent of respondents did not consider the term offensive, although many question the cultural credentials of the respondents.
All of which underscores the oft-overlooked diversity within Native America.
“Marginalized communities are too often treated monolithically,” said Carter Meland, a professor of American Indian Studies at the University of Minnesota.
“Stories on the mascot issue always end up exploring whether it is right or it is wrong, respectful or disrespectful,” said Meland, an Ojibwe Indian.
He believes Indian mascots are disrespectful, but said: “It would be interesting to get a sense of the diversity of opinion within a native community.”
_____________________
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
here's the deal names like the yankees, fighting irish, canucks, and habs have been and can be used derogatorily, but they actually represent the people who make up the name and root for the team (or make a majority of those enrolled at the school). Things like Seminoles and Redskins are largely supported by white people who have no idea what actual native traditions are, otherwise they wouldn't fucking do a tomahawk chop, riding white horses to midfield with a flaming spear, or have a name that has been deemed legally racist by our government representing a team that plays under the backdrop of our government. Put differently it would be like having a team on an Indian Reservation, cheered on by Indians, named the Catholics. Only their mascot would come to midfield with a flaming cross and plant it there before games, and hump little boys. That'd be fun :roll:
There was never any doubt where the Seminole Tribe of Florida stood on Florida State University's nickname. The tribe helped university boosters create the costume for the Chief Osceola mascot, approving the face paint, flaming spear and Appaloosa horse that have no connection to Seminole history.
Yesterday, the National Collegiate Athletic Association agreed with the 3,100-member tribe and the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, which had also endorsed the nickname. The N.C.A.A. removed Florida State from the list of universities banned from using what it called "hostile and abusive" mascots and nicknames during postseason play.
"The N.C.A.A. executive committee continues to believe the stereotyping of Native Americans is wrong," Bernard Franklin, the association's senior vice president for governance and membership, said in a statement. "However, in its review of the particular circumstances regarding Florida State, the staff review committee noted the unique relationship between the university and the Seminole Tribe of Florida as a significant factor."
A student dressed as Chief Osceola will ride bareback on the Appaloosa horse Renegade to midfield before the season opener against Miami on Sept. 5 in a ceremony indigenous to only Doak Campbell Stadium in Tallahassee.
"The N.C.A.A. recognizes the many different points of view on this matter, particularly within the Native American community," Franklin added. "The decision of a namesake sovereign tribe, regarding when and how its name and imagery can be used, must be respected even when others may not agree."
On Aug. 5, the N.C.A.A. executive committee issued the ban, which is scheduled to go into effect in February. The prohibition concerns logos, signs in stadiums, cheerleader and band uniforms, and mascots.
"It's not about an effort to be politically correct," Myles Brand, the president of the N.C.A.A., said in a statement when the ban was announced. "It is about doing the right thing."
Florida State's president, T. K. Wetherell, immediately protested the ban.
"That the N.C.A.A. would now label our close bond with the Seminole people as culturally 'hostile and abusive' is both outrageous and insulting," he said in a statement.
Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida said, "The folks that make these decisions need to get out more often." He added that it was offensive to "the Seminole Indian tribe who support the traditions of F.S.U."
After an emergency meeting, the university Board of Trustees filed an appeal with the N.C.A.A. The hearing was held this week, and the decision was announced yesterday.
Because of the pressure from Florida State and other members, the N.C.A.A. said last Friday that it would consider appeals of the ban on a case-by-case basis. The ban would affect 17 other universities with American Indian nicknames or mascots, including Illinois (Illini) and North Dakota (Fighting Sioux).
Support for Florida State is obvious at the Seminole Tribe's showcase Okalee Indian Village in Hollywood, Fla. The village is a small, modern, concrete zoo on the site of the tribe's Hard Rock Casino, adjacent to an Improv comedy club. Under chickees, grass huts that fan out around a cooking pit, women sew patchwork dresses while sitting on garnet-colored nylon F.S.U. football folding chairs.
Seminoles descended from Creek Indians who lived by rivers in Georgia and Alabama. In the 1800's, the federal government torched trees and crops on Indian land, forcing hundreds of Indians south into Florida, where they mixed with aboriginal tribes. Thousands of other Indians were captured and forced to march to Oklahoma along what became known as the Trail of Tears. Continued conflict with the federal government pushed the surviving Seminoles farther down the Florida peninsula, into the Everglades.
The Seminoles are the only American Indian tribe never to sign a formal peace treaty with the United States. To celebrate this status, Florida State erected "Unconquered," a statue of the Chief Osceola mascot, outside its football stadium.
Tribe members survived for a time by selling otter pelts and alligator skins to white settlers in Fort Lauderdale and Miami. When South Florida tourism boomed in the 1920's, Seminoles capitalized by wrestling alligators for money. In 1979, the Seminoles opened the first casino on Indian land, ushering in what has become a multibillion-dollar industry operated by numerous tribes nationwide.
The Miccosukee Tribe of Indians of Florida split from the Seminoles in the early 1960's, setting up a 33-acre reservation on the northern border of Everglades National Park, about 45 miles west of Miami. As an independent tribe with historical links to the Seminoles, the Miccosukee could have endorsed the N.C.A.A. nickname ban and forced Florida State to comply. But they did not want to.
"The Seminole name, it just makes you pretty much better," said one female Miccosukee, who had a "NOLES" vanity plate on the front bumper of her husband's Ford F-150. She refused to give her name; public comments are what tribal leaders are for, she said.
There are about 550 Miccosukee. Most live in a straight line of concrete houses along the Old Tamiami Trail. The houses overlook miles of sawgrass broken up by hammocks of pine and cypress trees. Fat gray clouds carry summer thunderstorms toward Miami. White herons glide among the hammocks, flying over deer, alligators and otters concealed in the grass.
Throughout the reservation, loyalty to Florida State is declared on mailboxes with "FSU #1 FAN" stickers, and on pickup trucks with vanity plates. A gold tomahawk leans against the facade of one house, next to a small concrete football player rushing over a field of crushed garnet stones.
Affection for the Seminoles is not absolute. Several houses feature University of Miami mailboxes and banners. Joe Cypress, who called himself an "original Seminole," lives on the reservation with his Miccosukee wife and said he had been a Hurricanes fan all his life.
"It don't bother me," he said of the Seminoles nickname and of his neighbors who support Florida State. "We coexist."
You mean the tribe that took millions of dollars to be fine with it, while the Oklahoma Seminole tribe hates them?
There are Native American schools that call their teams Redskins. The term is used affectionately by some natives, similar to the way the N-word is used by some African-Americans. In the only recent poll to ask native people about the subject, 90 percent of respondents did not consider the term offensive, although many question the cultural credentials of the respondents.
All of which underscores the oft-overlooked diversity within Native America.
“Marginalized communities are too often treated monolithically,” said Carter Meland, a professor of American Indian Studies at the University of Minnesota.
“Stories on the mascot issue always end up exploring whether it is right or it is wrong, respectful or disrespectful,” said Meland, an Ojibwe Indian.
He believes Indian mascots are disrespectful, but said: “It would be interesting to get a sense of the diversity of opinion within a native community.”
_____________________
Here's the other thing...as with Yankees, Habs, Fighting Irish, etc...if a Native School or owned Team wants to call themselves the Redskins and represent (largely) themselves that's their deal. This is why the NCAA allows for Native schools, with Native Mascots to still exist. When it becomes offensive is when other people choose to represent them in stereotypical ways and then say they are "honoring" them.
haha...I just got through that whole FSU article "close bond" are you effing kidding me...is that what you call giving syph blankets and making a tribe walk halfway across the country? i call bullshit on that article
There are Native American schools that call their teams Redskins. The term is used affectionately by some natives, similar to the way the N-word is used by some African-Americans. In the only recent poll to ask native people about the subject, 90 percent of respondents did not consider the term offensive, although many question the cultural credentials of the respondents.
All of which underscores the oft-overlooked diversity within Native America.
“Marginalized communities are too often treated monolithically,” said Carter Meland, a professor of American Indian Studies at the University of Minnesota.
“Stories on the mascot issue always end up exploring whether it is right or it is wrong, respectful or disrespectful,” said Meland, an Ojibwe Indian.
He believes Indian mascots are disrespectful, but said: “It would be interesting to get a sense of the diversity of opinion within a native community.”
_____________________
Here's the other thing...as with Yankees, Habs, Fighting Irish, etc...if a Native School or owned Team wants to call themselves the Redskins and represent (largely) themselves that's their deal. This is why the NCAA allows for Native schools, with Native Mascots to still exist. When it becomes offensive is when other people choose to represent them in stereotypical ways and then say they are "honoring" them.
So do as I say not as I do? It doesn't work that way. That is like when someone calls racism over a person calling a black guy N*GGER but then uses the word themselves. Unless you want the drama it is either all bad or it is just a word.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
haha...I just got through that whole FSU article "close bond" are you effing kidding me...is that what you call giving syph blankets and making a tribe walk halfway across the country? i call bullshit on that article
What are you talking about?
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
here's the deal names like the yankees, fighting irish, canucks, and habs have been and can be used derogatorily, but they actually represent the people who make up the name and root for the team (or make a majority of those enrolled at the school). Things like Seminoles and Redskins are largely supported by white people who have no idea what actual native traditions are, otherwise they wouldn't fucking do a tomahawk chop, riding white horses to midfield with a flaming spear, or have a name that has been deemed legally racist by our government representing a team that plays under the backdrop of our government. Put differently it would be like having a team on an Indian Reservation, cheered on by Indians, named the Catholics. Only their mascot would come to midfield with a flaming cross and plant it there before games, and hump little boys. That'd be fun :roll:
Periodically, one has to filter through posts such as these to figure out what a guy is saying. I think you are saying that some team names derived from group of people- regardless of the derogatory nature possibly associated with the nickname- are okay to use. Others aren't. Do I essentially have this right?
If so, how many people need to be offended by a name before we look at changing it?
To be clear I would prefer no one uses it...but you can't deny that there is a difference in social power when I, as a WMA, call myself a Yankee (with all the good and bad stereotypes that come with it) and when someone from outside the US calls me one as a means of putting me down. More presciently, when a black person calls themselves a "nigger", or an indian calls themselves a "redskin" (with all the good and bad) it is far different (though still not cool in my estimation) than if I were to do the same.
It will be interesting in 50 years when our great-grandkids look down on us for fighting to keep Redskins and other Native nicknames the way we look down on ours for using the old N-Bomb...we'll be in some nursing home when little bobby and sue roll their eyes at old racist grandad who just can't get over the loss of his beloved nicknames. jesus just give it up it's a friggin' name that will be forgotten in 20 years. if you think i'm lying try teaching 9/11 shit to kids who were in the 4th grade when it happened...they have no idea and have other things to care about.
Sounds like you need to generate some enthusiasm for the topic.
haha...I just got through that whole FSU article "close bond" are you effing kidding me...is that what you call giving syph blankets and making a tribe walk halfway across the country? i call bullshit on that article
What are you talking about?
the Florida Seminole tribe took millions (somehow that fact gets left out of this story) to be "ok" with the name. Oklahoma Seminoles hate the Florida Seminole tribe
To be clear I would prefer no one uses it...but you can't deny that there is a difference in social power when I, as a WMA, call myself a Yankee (with all the good and bad stereotypes that come with it) and when someone from outside the US calls me one as a means of putting me down. More presciently, when a black person calls themselves a "nigger", or an indian calls themselves a "redskin" (with all the good and bad) it is far different (though still not cool in my estimation) than if I were to do the same.
There shoudl be no gray area. It is either deemed inappropriate or not at least when it comes to something people are claiming that is so sensative.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
To be clear I would prefer no one uses it...but you can't deny that there is a difference in social power when I, as a WMA, call myself a Yankee (with all the good and bad stereotypes that come with it) and when someone from outside the US calls me one as a means of putting me down. More presciently, when a black person calls themselves a "nigger", or an indian calls themselves a "redskin" (with all the good and bad) it is far different (though still not cool in my estimation) than if I were to do the same.
I don't think people who use these terms can have it both ways: if you want the term gone... then do your part in getting rid of it.
here's the deal names like the yankees, fighting irish, canucks, and habs have been and can be used derogatorily, but they actually represent the people who make up the name and root for the team (or make a majority of those enrolled at the school). Things like Seminoles and Redskins are largely supported by white people who have no idea what actual native traditions are, otherwise they wouldn't fucking do a tomahawk chop, riding white horses to midfield with a flaming spear, or have a name that has been deemed legally racist by our government representing a team that plays under the backdrop of our government. Put differently it would be like having a team on an Indian Reservation, cheered on by Indians, named the Catholics. Only their mascot would come to midfield with a flaming cross and plant it there before games, and hump little boys. That'd be fun :roll:
Periodically, one has to filter through posts such as these to figure out what a guy is saying. I think you are saying that some team names derived from group of people- regardless of the derogatory nature possibly associated with the nickname- are okay to use. Others aren't. Do I essentially have this right?
If so, how many people need to be offended by a name before we look at changing it?
Yes, while I would prefer none of them to be used, if those using it are representing largely themselves then what do I have to say about it? Conversely, when one group of people, generally those in power, are using it to define others then it becomes even less justifiable. As for the number needed to be offended question: I read an article written by an Indian (their legal name in the US) where most Indians, Natives, First Nations people don't care because they have far more pressing issues to deal with. However, in the end, it's just a name why not change it.
It will be interesting in 50 years when our great-grandkids look down on us for fighting to keep Redskins and other Native nicknames the way we look down on ours for using the old N-Bomb...we'll be in some nursing home when little bobby and sue roll their eyes at old racist grandad who just can't get over the loss of his beloved nicknames. jesus just give it up it's a friggin' name that will be forgotten in 20 years. if you think i'm lying try teaching 9/11 shit to kids who were in the 4th grade when it happened...they have no idea and have other things to care about.
Sounds like you need to generate some enthusiasm for the topic.
To be clear I would prefer no one uses it...but you can't deny that there is a difference in social power when I, as a WMA, call myself a Yankee (with all the good and bad stereotypes that come with it) and when someone from outside the US calls me one as a means of putting me down. More presciently, when a black person calls themselves a "nigger", or an indian calls themselves a "redskin" (with all the good and bad) it is far different (though still not cool in my estimation) than if I were to do the same.
I don't think people who use these terms can have it both ways: if you want the term gone... then do your part in getting rid of it.
again i generally agree but this isn't an argument for a white man like myself to be having. i didn't have that term used against me and my rights for years...I'd rather just give it up and not really argue over how the oppressed choose to or to not use it.
It will be interesting in 50 years when our great-grandkids look down on us for fighting to keep Redskins and other Native nicknames the way we look down on ours for using the old N-Bomb...we'll be in some nursing home when little bobby and sue roll their eyes at old racist grandad who just can't get over the loss of his beloved nicknames. jesus just give it up it's a friggin' name that will be forgotten in 20 years. if you think i'm lying try teaching 9/11 shit to kids who were in the 4th grade when it happened...they have no idea and have other things to care about.
He who forgets will be destined to remember
yes because the Stanford Indian and Syracuse Saltine Warrior fans are so sad that their school's don't have their precious nicknames anymore. oh wait, nope, those names were changed like 35 years ago and no one (or very few) gives an eff.
It will be interesting in 50 years when our great-grandkids look down on us for fighting to keep Redskins and other Native nicknames the way we look down on ours for using the old N-Bomb...we'll be in some nursing home when little bobby and sue roll their eyes at old racist grandad who just can't get over the loss of his beloved nicknames. jesus just give it up it's a friggin' name that will be forgotten in 20 years. if you think i'm lying try teaching 9/11 shit to kids who were in the 4th grade when it happened...they have no idea and have other things to care about.
He who forgets will be destined to remember
yes because the Stanford Indian and Syracuse Saltine Warrior fans are so sad that their school's don't have their precious nicknames anymore. oh wait, nope, those names were changed like 35 years ago and no one (or very few) gives an eff.
I was referring to the 9/11 part. To go into that, what kid who was in 4th grade is still in school? Maybe college but 12 years after fourth grade is close to a college graduates age.
96 Randall's Island II
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
To be clear I would prefer no one uses it...but you can't deny that there is a difference in social power when I, as a WMA, call myself a Yankee (with all the good and bad stereotypes that come with it) and when someone from outside the US calls me one as a means of putting me down. More presciently, when a black person calls themselves a "nigger", or an indian calls themselves a "redskin" (with all the good and bad) it is far different (though still not cool in my estimation) than if I were to do the same.
I don't think people who use these terms can have it both ways: if you want the term gone... then do your part in getting rid of it.
again i generally agree but this isn't an argument for a white man like myself to be having. i didn't have that term used against me and my rights for years...I'd rather just give it up and not really argue over how the oppressed choose to or to not use it.
For the record, I don't use 'nig...'- ever. It's extremely offensive, but if a group feels discriminated against by society's use of a 'word'... and then uses that 'word' as part of their everyday vernacular... what message are they effectively sending and how exactly are they helping their cause?
The bottom line to me is that most Americans don't know much about European continental conquest and the genocide of First Nations people or their history and therefore we have no right to attach any name relating to those people to our entertainment.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
yes because the Stanford Indian and Syracuse Saltine Warrior fans are so sad that their school's don't have their precious nicknames anymore. oh wait, nope, those names were changed like 35 years ago and no one (or very few) gives an eff.
I was referring to the 9/11 part. To go into that, what kid who was in 4th grade is still in school? Maybe college but 12 years after fourth grade is close to a college graduates age.
ah...yeah i teach at a University...1st-4th graders is what they were when 9/11 happened - it's crazy. for them it's sort of weird that we even care about that day anymore. they "know" it's important but don't know why it is. that's why i'm saying in 20-30 years if all these teams change their mascots no one is going to care really. when the "Redskins" finally have to change their name the kids born on that day will only ever know the team as what it became afterward. Even if they have a family member hugely invested in the name the "pain" of the change isn't going to matter one bit to them. As such, I don't get why there's such a fuss over preserving it. If Snyder was smart at all he'd realize that he'd sell a shitton of retro stuff, and then all his fans would eventually be buying the new nickname - kind of shocks me since this is the dude who introduced charging full price for preseason games.
Comments
Do they still sell Eskimo Pies up there?
I didn't say ALL teams use it as a way of intimidation. But it is a factor.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I don't know, to be honest. and yes, Eskimo is not a term used anymore.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
In Canada and Greenland the term Eskimo is widely held by the indigenous peoples to be pejorative and has fallen out of favour, largely supplanted by the term Inuit.[1][12][14][17] However, while Inuit describes all of the Eskimo peoples in Canada and Greenland, that is not true in Alaska and Siberia. In Alaska the term Eskimo is commonly used, because it includes both Yupik and Inupiat, while Inuit is not accepted as a collective term or even specifically used for Inupiat (who technically are Inuit). No universal term other than Eskimo, inclusive of all Inuit and Yupik people, exists for the Inuit and Yupik peoples.[1]
In 1977, the Inuit Circumpolar Conference meeting in Barrow, Alaska, officially adopted Inuit as a designation for all circumpolar native peoples, regardless of their local view on an appropriate term. As a result the Canadian government usage has replaced the (locally) defunct term Eskimo with Inuit (Inuk in singular). The preferred term in Canada's Central Arctic is Inuinnaq,[18] and in the eastern Canadian Arctic Inuit. The language is often called Inuktitut, though other local designations are also used.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
'Outrage docket'
'high-horse social outrage debates'
Try again about Florida State:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/24/sport ... d=all&_r=0
There was never any doubt where the Seminole Tribe of Florida stood on Florida State University's nickname. The tribe helped university boosters create the costume for the Chief Osceola mascot, approving the face paint, flaming spear and Appaloosa horse that have no connection to Seminole history.
Yesterday, the National Collegiate Athletic Association agreed with the 3,100-member tribe and the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, which had also endorsed the nickname. The N.C.A.A. removed Florida State from the list of universities banned from using what it called "hostile and abusive" mascots and nicknames during postseason play.
"The N.C.A.A. executive committee continues to believe the stereotyping of Native Americans is wrong," Bernard Franklin, the association's senior vice president for governance and membership, said in a statement. "However, in its review of the particular circumstances regarding Florida State, the staff review committee noted the unique relationship between the university and the Seminole Tribe of Florida as a significant factor."
A student dressed as Chief Osceola will ride bareback on the Appaloosa horse Renegade to midfield before the season opener against Miami on Sept. 5 in a ceremony indigenous to only Doak Campbell Stadium in Tallahassee.
"The N.C.A.A. recognizes the many different points of view on this matter, particularly within the Native American community," Franklin added. "The decision of a namesake sovereign tribe, regarding when and how its name and imagery can be used, must be respected even when others may not agree."
On Aug. 5, the N.C.A.A. executive committee issued the ban, which is scheduled to go into effect in February. The prohibition concerns logos, signs in stadiums, cheerleader and band uniforms, and mascots.
"It's not about an effort to be politically correct," Myles Brand, the president of the N.C.A.A., said in a statement when the ban was announced. "It is about doing the right thing."
Florida State's president, T. K. Wetherell, immediately protested the ban.
"That the N.C.A.A. would now label our close bond with the Seminole people as culturally 'hostile and abusive' is both outrageous and insulting," he said in a statement.
Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida said, "The folks that make these decisions need to get out more often." He added that it was offensive to "the Seminole Indian tribe who support the traditions of F.S.U."
After an emergency meeting, the university Board of Trustees filed an appeal with the N.C.A.A. The hearing was held this week, and the decision was announced yesterday.
Because of the pressure from Florida State and other members, the N.C.A.A. said last Friday that it would consider appeals of the ban on a case-by-case basis. The ban would affect 17 other universities with American Indian nicknames or mascots, including Illinois (Illini) and North Dakota (Fighting Sioux).
Support for Florida State is obvious at the Seminole Tribe's showcase Okalee Indian Village in Hollywood, Fla. The village is a small, modern, concrete zoo on the site of the tribe's Hard Rock Casino, adjacent to an Improv comedy club. Under chickees, grass huts that fan out around a cooking pit, women sew patchwork dresses while sitting on garnet-colored nylon F.S.U. football folding chairs.
Seminoles descended from Creek Indians who lived by rivers in Georgia and Alabama. In the 1800's, the federal government torched trees and crops on Indian land, forcing hundreds of Indians south into Florida, where they mixed with aboriginal tribes. Thousands of other Indians were captured and forced to march to Oklahoma along what became known as the Trail of Tears. Continued conflict with the federal government pushed the surviving Seminoles farther down the Florida peninsula, into the Everglades.
The Seminoles are the only American Indian tribe never to sign a formal peace treaty with the United States. To celebrate this status, Florida State erected "Unconquered," a statue of the Chief Osceola mascot, outside its football stadium.
Tribe members survived for a time by selling otter pelts and alligator skins to white settlers in Fort Lauderdale and Miami. When South Florida tourism boomed in the 1920's, Seminoles capitalized by wrestling alligators for money. In 1979, the Seminoles opened the first casino on Indian land, ushering in what has become a multibillion-dollar industry operated by numerous tribes nationwide.
The Miccosukee Tribe of Indians of Florida split from the Seminoles in the early 1960's, setting up a 33-acre reservation on the northern border of Everglades National Park, about 45 miles west of Miami. As an independent tribe with historical links to the Seminoles, the Miccosukee could have endorsed the N.C.A.A. nickname ban and forced Florida State to comply. But they did not want to.
"The Seminole name, it just makes you pretty much better," said one female Miccosukee, who had a "NOLES" vanity plate on the front bumper of her husband's Ford F-150. She refused to give her name; public comments are what tribal leaders are for, she said.
There are about 550 Miccosukee. Most live in a straight line of concrete houses along the Old Tamiami Trail. The houses overlook miles of sawgrass broken up by hammocks of pine and cypress trees. Fat gray clouds carry summer thunderstorms toward Miami. White herons glide among the hammocks, flying over deer, alligators and otters concealed in the grass.
Throughout the reservation, loyalty to Florida State is declared on mailboxes with "FSU #1 FAN" stickers, and on pickup trucks with vanity plates. A gold tomahawk leans against the facade of one house, next to a small concrete football player rushing over a field of crushed garnet stones.
Affection for the Seminoles is not absolute. Several houses feature University of Miami mailboxes and banners. Joe Cypress, who called himself an "original Seminole," lives on the reservation with his Miccosukee wife and said he had been a Hurricanes fan all his life.
"It don't bother me," he said of the Seminoles nickname and of his neighbors who support Florida State. "We coexist."
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
He who forgets will be destined to remember
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
What gets far less attention, though, is this:
There are Native American schools that call their teams Redskins. The term is used affectionately by some natives, similar to the way the N-word is used by some African-Americans. In the only recent poll to ask native people about the subject, 90 percent of respondents did not consider the term offensive, although many question the cultural credentials of the respondents.
All of which underscores the oft-overlooked diversity within Native America.
“Marginalized communities are too often treated monolithically,” said Carter Meland, a professor of American Indian Studies at the University of Minnesota.
“Stories on the mascot issue always end up exploring whether it is right or it is wrong, respectful or disrespectful,” said Meland, an Ojibwe Indian.
He believes Indian mascots are disrespectful, but said: “It would be interesting to get a sense of the diversity of opinion within a native community.”
_____________________
The Full article is here:
http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/10/ ... is-a-slur/
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
You mean the tribe that took millions of dollars to be fine with it, while the Oklahoma Seminole tribe hates them?
Here's the other thing...as with Yankees, Habs, Fighting Irish, etc...if a Native School or owned Team wants to call themselves the Redskins and represent (largely) themselves that's their deal. This is why the NCAA allows for Native schools, with Native Mascots to still exist. When it becomes offensive is when other people choose to represent them in stereotypical ways and then say they are "honoring" them.
So do as I say not as I do? It doesn't work that way. That is like when someone calls racism over a person calling a black guy N*GGER but then uses the word themselves. Unless you want the drama it is either all bad or it is just a word.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
What are you talking about?
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
Periodically, one has to filter through posts such as these to figure out what a guy is saying. I think you are saying that some team names derived from group of people- regardless of the derogatory nature possibly associated with the nickname- are okay to use. Others aren't. Do I essentially have this right?
If so, how many people need to be offended by a name before we look at changing it?
Sounds like you need to generate some enthusiasm for the topic.
There shoudl be no gray area. It is either deemed inappropriate or not at least when it comes to something people are claiming that is so sensative.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
I don't think people who use these terms can have it both ways: if you want the term gone... then do your part in getting rid of it.
I was referring to the 9/11 part. To go into that, what kid who was in 4th grade is still in school? Maybe college but 12 years after fourth grade is close to a college graduates age.
98 CAA
00 Virginia Beach;Camden I; Jones Beach III
05 Borgata Night I; Wachovia Center
06 Letterman Show; Webcast (guy in blue shirt), Camden I; DC
08 Camden I; Camden II; DC
09 Phillie III
10 MSG II
13 Wrigley Field
16 Phillie II
For the record, I don't use 'nig...'- ever. It's extremely offensive, but if a group feels discriminated against by society's use of a 'word'... and then uses that 'word' as part of their everyday vernacular... what message are they effectively sending and how exactly are they helping their cause?
In a move to have a MUCH LESS OFFENSIVE name, the "WASHINGTON Redskins are changing it to the "Redskins"
Think about it.... think about it...
Carry on.
MSG 1 & 2 2010
Montreal 2011
Missoula 2012
Seattle 2013
Denver 2014
Central Park NYC 2015
Sunrise 2016
Wrigley 2 2016
Seattle 1 2018
~~~~~~~
EV NYC 2 2011
RNDM NYC 2012
TOTD SF 2016
Highlights Of Last Spectrum Show
Mike DESTROYING in Seattle 2013
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" - HST
Instagram (great concert shots of many bands): concertaholic