tax evaders

JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
edited September 2013 in A Moving Train
taxevaders.net

well within their right to evade taxes based on the laws written and unwritten by their paymasters.

whats your personal effective tax rate? mine is 12.9%
whats 12.9% of $89 billion?
ok since they are such great companies lets give them a break: whats 6.4% of $89 billion?

how much do we spend on those welfare leeches each year? foodstamps? freebies?
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • What about small businesses that are "cash" businesses? Its not just big business or people on welfare. I work in a bank as a commercial loan underwriter. I would say 75% of small businesses do not claim all their income. Its sick.
    1996: Hartford
    1998: Mansfield 1
    2000: Mansfield 1 & 2
    2003: Albany, Uniondale, Mansfield 1, 2 & 3
    2004: Boston 1 & 2
    2005: Montreal, Ottawa
    2006: Albany, Hartford, Boston 1 & 2
    2008: Columbia, Virginia Beach, Camden 1 & 2, Washington D. C., Hartford, Mansfield 1 & 2
    2010: Boston
    2011: East Troy 1 & 2
    2012: Pensacola
    2013: Worcester 1 & 2, Hartford
  • JC29856 wrote:
    taxevaders.net

    well within their right to evade taxes based on the laws written and unwritten by their paymasters.

    whats your personal effective tax rate? mine is 12.9%
    whats 12.9% of $89 billion?
    ok since they are such great companies lets give them a break: whats 6.4% of $89 billion?

    how much do we spend on those welfare leeches each year? foodstamps? freebies?

    Quite the over-generalization there, don't you think?
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    Not all welfare recipients are "leeches" (in any case, not cool to use derogatory name-calling) and all the welfare money totaled doesn't come close to the amount ripped off from hard working people and over-seas slaves... not to mention the strain on the planet...by some major corporations, overpaid CEO's and the like. OP, not sure what you're trying to achieve with this thread. Maybe you can explain further?
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Way too many ridiculous tak breaks, too many loopholes, not to mention the overall utter clusterfuckery when it comes to our tax language and laws.

    Pay what you're supposed to - individuals and corporations alike - and above all, keep it simple, stupid!
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    What about small businesses that are "cash" businesses? Its not just big business or people on welfare. I work in a bank as a commercial loan underwriter. I would say 75% of small businesses do not claim all their income. Its sick.

    Have you tried making a living running a small business? My wife and I do and we know several other small business owners in our town. It's damn hard work, long hours*, and though we love what we do, we (and most others we know) sure as hell aren't in any way shape or form in a high income bracket. Lower middle at best! Sheesh! Give us a break, already.

    *The saying goes: Small business owners only have to work half days... plus you get to chose which 12 hours you work! :P
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Jason PJason P Posts: 19,138
    It's my duty as an American to avoid paying as much tax as possible. :ugeek:

    I still can't believe they haven't figured out the onlines sales tax issue. I know Congress moves slow but they usually move pretty effing fast when in comes to shaking down our wallets.
  • LoulouLoulou Posts: 6,247
    brianlux wrote:
    What about small businesses that are "cash" businesses? Its not just big business or people on welfare. I work in a bank as a commercial loan underwriter. I would say 75% of small businesses do not claim all their income. Its sick.

    Have you tried making a living running a small business? My wife and I do and we know several other small business owners in our town. It's damn hard work, long hours*, and though we love what we do, we (and most others we know) sure as hell aren't in any way shape or form in a high income bracket. Lower middle at best! Sheesh! Give us a break, already.

    *The saying goes: Small business owners only have to work half days... plus you get to chose which 12 hours you work! :P
    So true Bri!
    We have our own small business and its bloody hard work! We pay a shit load of tax, which is very hard sometimes because we are always waiting for people to pay their invoices. By the time someone pays, bills add up, so it's a 'Robbing Peter to pay Paul' situation at times. I don't think some people understand that although you run a profitable business, it's not easy. We always declare everything and pay what we should even though so many much bigger companies don't.
    “ "Thank you Palestrina. It’s a wonderful evening, it’s great to be here and I wanna dedicate you a super sexy song." " (last words of Mark Sandman of Morphine)


    Adelaide 1998
    Adelaide 2003
    Adelaide 2006 night 1
    Adelaide 2006 night 2
    Adelaide 2009
    Melbourne 2009
    Christchurch NZ 2009
    Eddie Vedder, Adelaide 2011
    PJ20 USA 2011 night 1
    PJ20 USA 2011 night 2
    Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    Loulou wrote:
    brianlux wrote:
    What about small businesses that are "cash" businesses? Its not just big business or people on welfare. I work in a bank as a commercial loan underwriter. I would say 75% of small businesses do not claim all their income. Its sick.

    Have you tried making a living running a small business? My wife and I do and we know several other small business owners in our town. It's damn hard work, long hours*, and though we love what we do, we (and most others we know) sure as hell aren't in any way shape or form in a high income bracket. Lower middle at best! Sheesh! Give us a break, already.

    *The saying goes: Small business owners only have to work half days... plus you get to chose which 12 hours you work! :P
    So true Bri!
    We have our own small business and its bloody hard work! We pay a shit load of tax, which is very hard sometimes because we are always waiting for people to pay their invoices. By the time someone pays, bills add up, so it's a 'Robbing Peter to pay Paul' situation at times. I don't think some people understand that although you run a profitable business, it's not easy. We always declare everything and pay what we should even though so many much bigger companies don't.

    OMG yes, Loulou! The amount of tax we pay as self employed folks! And we essentially pay into U.S. social security twice (it's a little more complicated that that but I know I payed less when I was not self-employed). The idea that we are ripping the government off-- or anybody for that matter... :lol:

    By the way, I hope your business is doing well!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • LoulouLoulou Posts: 6,247
    Thanks mate! We wish the best for yours too. :) we are getting right into the Solar installations at the moment, going along well but things will probably change with our new government. :roll: Don't think they are particularly environmentally friendly.
    “ "Thank you Palestrina. It’s a wonderful evening, it’s great to be here and I wanna dedicate you a super sexy song." " (last words of Mark Sandman of Morphine)


    Adelaide 1998
    Adelaide 2003
    Adelaide 2006 night 1
    Adelaide 2006 night 2
    Adelaide 2009
    Melbourne 2009
    Christchurch NZ 2009
    Eddie Vedder, Adelaide 2011
    PJ20 USA 2011 night 1
    PJ20 USA 2011 night 2
    Adelaide BIG DAY OUT 2014
  • Have you tried making a living running a small business? My wife and I do and we know several other small business owners in our town. It's damn hard work, long hours*, and though we love what we do, we (and most others we know) sure as hell aren't in any way shape or form in a high income bracket. Lower middle at best! Sheesh! Give us a break, already.

    *The saying goes: Small business owners only have to work half days... plus you get to chose which 12 hours you work! :P[/quote]
    So true Bri!
    We have our own small business and its bloody hard work! We pay a shit load of tax, which is very hard sometimes because we are always waiting for people to pay their invoices. By the time someone pays, bills add up, so it's a 'Robbing Peter to pay Paul' situation at times. I don't think some people understand that although you run a profitable business, it's not easy. We always declare everything and pay what we should even though so many much bigger companies don't.[/quote]


    I did not say all small businesses. I didn't say running a business is suppose to be easy, but also it is what you agreed upon when you decided to run a small business if you want it to be successful. If you are waiting for people to pay their invoices so you can pay your own bills, you should look into getting a line of credit from the bank. Rates are low. You could also charge interest to your customers like many businesses do if they pay after a certain date, which would cover the interest on the line of credit if you took a draw from it.

    Larger businesses (if referring to companies like GE) take advantage of current laws and breaks. They pay what they legally have to, they are not cheating, its the system. They can't cheat because they have investors and their financials are audited. Well, they could cheat but they eventually get caught.
    1996: Hartford
    1998: Mansfield 1
    2000: Mansfield 1 & 2
    2003: Albany, Uniondale, Mansfield 1, 2 & 3
    2004: Boston 1 & 2
    2005: Montreal, Ottawa
    2006: Albany, Hartford, Boston 1 & 2
    2008: Columbia, Virginia Beach, Camden 1 & 2, Washington D. C., Hartford, Mansfield 1 & 2
    2010: Boston
    2011: East Troy 1 & 2
    2012: Pensacola
    2013: Worcester 1 & 2, Hartford
  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051

    I did not say all small businesses. I didn't say running a business is suppose to be easy, but also it is what you agreed upon when you decided to run a small business if you want it to be successful. If you are waiting for people to pay their invoices so you can pay your own bills, you should look into getting a line of credit from the bank. Rates are low. You could also charge interest to your customers like many businesses do if they pay after a certain date, which would cover the interest on the line of credit if you took a draw from it.

    Larger businesses (if referring to companies like GE) take advantage of current laws and breaks. They pay what they legally have to, they are not cheating, its the system. They can't cheat because they have investors and their financials are audited. Well, they could cheat but they eventually get caught.

    Reminds me of a song:

    "Steal a little and they put you in jail
    Steal a lot and they make you king".
    -Bob Dylan

    I don't believe most small businesses steal even a little. I'm pretty sure most big businesses and corporations steal a lot. But by that I mean theft comes in many forms.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • mookeywrenchmookeywrench Posts: 5,903
    edited September 2013
    Based on my experience as a tax accountant; large businesses, small businesses, medium sized businesses, high income individuals, medium-income individuals, small-income individuals all take advantage of current tax law/tax breaks/or are tax evaders; whatever you want to call it.

    The large businesses blame the medium/small-income individuals, saying it's their duty to pay the shortcoming because they're the cheats.

    The Small and medium-income individuals blame all the businesses and high earning individuals, saying it's their duty to pay the shortcoming because they're the cheats.

    The Medium-income businesses/individuals blame the small-income individuals and the large businesses, saying it's their duty to pay the shortcoming because they're the cheats.

    Milton Friedman:
    "Congress can raise taxes because it can persuade a sizable fraction of the populace that somebody else will pay."


    Judge Learned Hand (1872-1961), Judge, U. S. Court of Appeals
    in the case of Gregory v. Helvering 69 F.2d 809, 810 (2d Cir. 1934), aff'd, 293 U.S. 465, 55 S.Ct. 266, 79 L.Ed. 596 (1935):

    "Anyone may arrange his affairs so that his taxes shall be as low as
    possible; he is not bound to choose that pattern which best pays the
    treasury. There is not even a patriotic duty to increase one's taxes.
    Over and over again the Courts have said that there is nothing sinister
    in so arranging affairs as to keep taxes as low as possible. Everyone
    does it, rich and poor alike and all do right, for nobody owes any
    public duty to pay more than the law demands."
    Post edited by mookeywrench on
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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    Based on my experience as a tax accountant; large businesses, small businesses, medium sized businesses, high income individuals, medium-income individuals, small-income individuals all take advantage of current tax law/tax breaks/or are tax evaders; whatever you what to call it.

    We call it "taking advantage of tax laws as a means of survival". Seriously- small business is a game of survival. Not that I'm complaining, mind you. It's also a choice. The advantages of self-employment are wonderful but making a go of it is challenging to say the least, so why wouldn't we take advantage of any tax breaks we get? And looking at the big picture- we pay more than our fair share of taxes. In the normal work world, for example, the employer kicks in something like 13% for social security and the employee kicks in something like 13%. When you're self employed, you kick in the full 26%.

    My guess is that some of those who have a gripe with small business owners live are either envious of something they don't fully understand or are under the delusion that what we do is skate through life. Hahaha! Not so. We work hard and, unless we are total fools, we like what we do enough to accept the difficulties of self-employment. But no, it's no easy street.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • I think people would be a lot more interested in keeping taxes low if all employees had to hand-write checks and send in their quarterly tax payments rather than the current system of automatic withholdings.
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  • brianlux wrote:

    We call it "taking advantage of tax laws as a means of survival". Seriously- small business is a game of survival. Not that I'm complaining, mind you. It's also a choice. The advantages of self-employment are wonderful but making a go of it is challenging to say the least, so why wouldn't we take advantage of any tax breaks we get? And looking at the big picture- we pay more than our fair share of taxes. In the normal work world, for example, the employer kicks in something like 7.65% for social security and the employee kicks in something like 7.65%. When you're self employed, you kick in the full 15.3% (which comes to 14.12% after a circular deduction) plus the regular income tax rate on top of that which is roughly 25%-35%, meaning of your net self employment income earned; roughly 39%- 49% goes back to the government

    Fixed
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  • brianluxbrianlux Posts: 42,051
    brianlux wrote:

    We call it "taking advantage of tax laws as a means of survival". Seriously- small business is a game of survival. Not that I'm complaining, mind you. It's also a choice. The advantages of self-employment are wonderful but making a go of it is challenging to say the least, so why wouldn't we take advantage of any tax breaks we get? And looking at the big picture- we pay more than our fair share of taxes. In the normal work world, for example, the employer kicks in something like 7.65% for social security and the employee kicks in something like 7.65%. When you're self employed, you kick in the full 15.3% (which comes to 14.12% after a circular deduction) plus the regular income tax rate on top of that which is roughly 25%-35%, meaning of your net self employment income earned; roughly 39%- 49% goes back to the government

    Fixed

    Thanks!

    Now you see why I let my wife handle these things. :crazy:

    :lol::lol::lol:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    I think people would be a lot more interested in keeping taxes low if all employees had to hand-write checks and send in their quarterly tax payments rather than the current system of automatic withholdings.
    I'm more than interested in lowering taxes.

    But...that doesn't take away from the convenience of having an escrow account for property taxes or regular paycheck witholdings.

    They are felt, either / any way they're paid (though I'll admit the auto-deductions don't seem to hurt as much, at the time).
  • hedonist wrote:
    I think people would be a lot more interested in keeping taxes low if all employees had to hand-write checks and send in their quarterly tax payments rather than the current system of automatic withholdings.
    ...though I'll admit the auto-deductions don't seem to hurt as much, at the time.

    Exactly my point, no matter how much people currently care about lowering taxes, they'd be more interested, or at least more judicial to where their taxes are going when the total amount spent is more immediate and not so passive.
    350x700px-LL-d2f49cb4_vinyl-needle-scu-e1356666258495.jpeg
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    hedonist wrote:
    I think people would be a lot more interested in keeping taxes low if all employees had to hand-write checks and send in their quarterly tax payments rather than the current system of automatic withholdings.
    ...though I'll admit the auto-deductions don't seem to hurt as much, at the time.

    Exactly my point, no matter how much people currently care about lowering taxes, they'd be more interested, or at least more judicial to where their taxes are going when the total amount spent is more immediate and not so passive.
    But it IS immediate, every month when we pay our mortgage and see that amount added to the principal and interest.

    It's no small amount. Sometimes we fume.

    I only meant that since it's included in our payment, it's just easier, convenient. Kind of like my IRA contributions, or monthly transfers to my savings. Yes, it's passive too but I also vote every time I have a chance to (try and) have a say as to where those taxes go.
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    For what it's worth...just read these last few posts (including mine) to my husband and he's 100% with you.

    (grrr.)
  • It shouldn't be about how high or how low your taxes are it should be what is "fair". I don't care about people or businesses who take advantage of loopholes as they are technically legal.

    But when people and small business say that they can barely get by because their taxes are too high. Well it was your decision to own a small business. Its success is based on how well you do and your decisions. If you do not make enough to cover your expenses for the business and personally, well then you are not living within your means. People not living within their means got this country in the the latest economic downturn just as much as the bankers.

    I still stand by my comment that there are a lot of small businesses that do to claim all of their income as they are paid in cash. These people who do not claim their income make me sick because it is taking money from places such as education and helping our troops.
    1996: Hartford
    1998: Mansfield 1
    2000: Mansfield 1 & 2
    2003: Albany, Uniondale, Mansfield 1, 2 & 3
    2004: Boston 1 & 2
    2005: Montreal, Ottawa
    2006: Albany, Hartford, Boston 1 & 2
    2008: Columbia, Virginia Beach, Camden 1 & 2, Washington D. C., Hartford, Mansfield 1 & 2
    2010: Boston
    2011: East Troy 1 & 2
    2012: Pensacola
    2013: Worcester 1 & 2, Hartford
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