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My first post in this section

PJ51390PJ51390 Posts: 728
edited August 2013 in A Moving Train
Ok, so I don't make it out of Lost Dogs or the Porch often, but after reading these two stories in the same day, I was curious to see some of y'alls thoughts...

Let me first preface this by saying I am not here to pick a fight, I was truly looking for a mature discussion that involves race in the hopes of understanding this fully all the while hoping this does not get blown out of proportion.

After all the Trayvon Martin/George Zimmerman debate turned in to quite the race issue, I just wonder why these two stories are not as discussed as much as they have been, or even debated on CNN and FOX and the likes and how this has not prompted rallies and the fanfare that happened after the Zimmerman shooting.

This one involved a (white) kid jogging through a neighborhood in Oklahoma and was gunned down because three (black) teens were bored.

http://news.msn.com/crime-justice/polic ... an-for-fun

This is a (black) guy that shot a (white) baby in a stroller in the head while robbing the baby's (white) mother.

http://www.cbsatlanta.com/story/2316913 ... aby-killer

Again, not trying to argue with anyone, just want to know thoughts on why there is no public outcry about this...is it because the victims were white? Is it because (white) people would be considered racists if they rallied or protested? Is it not that big of a deal? I just can't figure it out...
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • Guitar92playerGuitar92player Posts: 664
    The first story you posted I just posted on here, and the other was discussed I believe as well at one point.

    The reason Trayvon's case was talked about all the time was because of how Zimmerman was not charged until like a month after the shooting. How the shooting was handled was not professional. Many people believes that because Zimmerman was white and Trayvon was black the cops just seemed to agree with what Zimmerman said. I do not personally believe that, but I know that was one thought on the issue. I personally do not believe the case should have been as popular as it was.

    By the way, the first story regarding the Oklahoma student has been talked about much on CNN today. In both those cases you posted, the person(s) who killed were arrested right away. It took Zimmerman a month I think to be arrested.
    ~Carter~

    You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
    or you can come to terms and realize
    you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
    makes much more sense to live in the present tense     - Present Tense
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    being a fucking idiot with a gun and murdering innocent people transcends race.

    sorry man. it is impossible to be outraged by every single episode of someone shooting someone else. they are all tragic, and if equal time were given to each one in the media, murder is all we would ever hear about.

    the trayvon martin thing blew up because of police inaction. nothing more.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Good questions that have been batted around and discussed here relative to many cases.

    I think some folks (not necessarily in this forum) are itching to use the race card - hell, I know people who are more than happy to insist the only reason one could criticize the President is because he's black. I also know some who are more than happy to criticize him ONLY because he's black.

    Then you have the ones who judge based on character and actions.

    It's about agenda, unfortunately...maybe ignorance too on the part of some.

    As for outcry...ask Sharpton & Jackson ;)
  • fishermanfisherman Posts: 12
    And both of the shootings you mentioned were done by a minor so their names won't, or shouldn't, be made public. Not having someone to talk about and show pictures of makes the stories more difficult to get a personal attachment to.
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    race is always going to be an issue ... the majority here will not agree with me but it's simply the way i see it ... in the case of the baseball player ... if it was 3 white guys shooting a black baseball player ... pretty sure the media would have mentioned it in the headlines ...

    race permeates so much of our lives and our failure to acknowledge it's presence and impact is ultimately what is going to continue to make it a problem ...

    don't get me wrong tho ... first and foremost about the 3 teenagers is how 3 kids could think so little of human life that they would kill someone randomly ... but underneath issues relating to parenting and socio-demographics and ecnomics is race ... would these kids have killed a black person? ... what are some non-blacks going to think of the larger black community ... these things are part of this discussion - may not be the focus ... but it's there ... has been for a long time and will be ...
  • sparky_frysparky_fry Posts: 760
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    it is impossible to be outraged by every single episode of someone shooting someone else.

    And that is the sad fucking truth to today's society. What the hell happened.
  • Who PrincessWho Princess Posts: 7,305
    fisherman wrote:
    And both of the shootings you mentioned were done by a minor so their names won't, or shouldn't, be made public. Not having someone to talk about and show pictures of makes the stories more difficult to get a personal attachment to.
    This is an important point. In the case of the teenager who shot the baby, I've heard people say that the shooter won't face the death penalty because he's black, overlooking the fact that minors of any race cannot be executed.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    fisherman wrote:
    And both of the shootings you mentioned were done by a minor so their names won't, or shouldn't, be made public. Not having someone to talk about and show pictures of makes the stories more difficult to get a personal attachment to.

    names are already out
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,303
    sparky_fry wrote:
    gimmesometruth27 wrote:
    it is impossible to be outraged by every single episode of someone shooting someone else.

    And that is the sad fucking truth to today's society. What the hell happened.
    i think apathy happened.

    either that, or we are just so desensitized to violence, and it is so common, we accept it and allow it to continue unabated.

    sad commentary on our country :fp:
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • PJ51390PJ51390 Posts: 728
    polaris_x wrote:
    race is always going to be an issue ... the majority here will not agree with me but it's simply the way i see it ... in the case of the baseball player ... if it was 3 white guys shooting a black baseball player ... pretty sure the media would have mentioned it in the headlines ...

    WOW! I first want to say, I cannot believe there could be a discussion on this topic on this forum and someone not have already gone off the deep end and bashed me for even bringing this up...I need to come here more often.

    Polaris X, I think you nailed it on the head and said what I wanted to say in OP, but I didn't want to rock the boat.

    I also agree with Sparky and I hate the the moral fabric of our country has become so soiled that we are almost immune to the headline of a murder unless it involves race.
  • Guitar92playerGuitar92player Posts: 664
    Here's the thing: For years when black people are the victim and a white person is the suspect, the suspect is either innocent or the charges are not as severe if the other way around. Race is a major problem in America. That is why cases involving black victims seems to get more headlines than vice versa. Race places a major part in the court room, according to some legal experts on CNN and Fox.

    In my opinion, and i am not saying anyone here is like this, but whenever i hear people bring up "well why ain't white people's stories in the news" I think that shows continued, minimal racism because they are mad that whites are being downplayed. It is not a secret that most everyone has a tiny bit of racism in them, and for white people it is pretty high, especially among older people who grew up in the 40s, 50s, and 60s. From a historical point of view, it makes sense why black deaths are in the media more, such as Trayvon's case. Zimmerman wasn't charged right away. They just took his word automatically. Once the investigation got more intense, they charged him. The way the police handled it was not normal.

    But like i said before, I don't think Trayvon's case should have been as popular, because Trayvon wasn't totally innocent in the matter.
    ~Carter~

    You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
    or you can come to terms and realize
    you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
    makes much more sense to live in the present tense     - Present Tense
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    PJ51390 wrote:
    WOW! I first want to say, I cannot believe there could be a discussion on this topic on this forum and someone not have already gone off the deep end and bashed me for even bringing this up...I need to come here more often.

    Polaris X, I think you nailed it on the head and said what I wanted to say in OP, but I didn't want to rock the boat.

    I also agree with Sparky and I hate the the moral fabric of our country has become so soiled that we are almost immune to the headline of a murder unless it involves race.

    this forum has a bad rap ... but honestly, there is great discussion here ... for sure, it gets heated and it degenerates fast but if you filter through the BS - there is lots of great insight ... and for the most part - everyone gets along well enough here ... people from all sides of the spectrum ...

    don't be afraid to post and offer your opinions ... just because someone may disagree doesn't make it a bad place ... just try and stay clear of the personal stuff and you will like it here ...
  • Guitar92playerGuitar92player Posts: 664
    polaris_x wrote:
    PJ51390 wrote:
    WOW! I first want to say, I cannot believe there could be a discussion on this topic on this forum and someone not have already gone off the deep end and bashed me for even bringing this up...I need to come here more often.

    Polaris X, I think you nailed it on the head and said what I wanted to say in OP, but I didn't want to rock the boat.

    I also agree with Sparky and I hate the the moral fabric of our country has become so soiled that we are almost immune to the headline of a murder unless it involves race.

    this forum has a bad rap ... but honestly, there is great discussion here ... for sure, it gets heated and it degenerates fast but if you filter through the BS - there is lots of great insight ... and for the most part - everyone gets along well enough here ... people from all sides of the spectrum ...

    don't be afraid to post and offer your opinions ... just because someone may disagree doesn't make it a bad place ... just try and stay clear of the personal stuff and you will like it here ...

    I agree fully. There are people here who have beliefs I do not like or agree with, but we all have our beliefs and that shouldn't affect how we actually see the person. I respect all the people in this forum and I hate no one. We are all humans. It really is a great place to have discussions.
    ~Carter~

    You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
    or you can come to terms and realize
    you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
    makes much more sense to live in the present tense     - Present Tense
  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    I believe the general point that is missing in this discussion... the false belief that CNN, MSNBC and FOX are journalistic entities. They are not... they are businesses. They sell air time to sponsors... sponsors who will pay more for air time that has the most eyes cast upon it.
    Controversy sells... news does not. Race is controversy and it works in different ways... like a white man shooting a black man is controversial, so it gets air time. Plain and simple... contorversy sells.
    ...
    Also... ever wonder why those cable news stations only focus on little lost white girls... and not little lost black girls? Same answer... little lost white girl have a higher rate and can generate more money.
    ...
    Anyway, when you watch cable 'news'... remember this: They need to fill 24 hours of air time that has to generate income.
    If you keep that in mind, you'll have a better understanding of what you are watching and, more importantly, WHY it is being aired.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • puremagicpuremagic Posts: 1,907
    PJ51390 wrote:
    Again, not trying to argue with anyone, just want to know thoughts on why there is no public outcry about this...is it because the victims were white? Is it because (white) people would be considered racists if they rallied or protested? Is it not that big of a deal? I just can't figure it out...

    The shooting of the Aussie has been on the news all day long. The so-called baby killer case is old because it was moved to a different city and is just now coming up for trial.

    and yet, here you are from Atlanta, where a white man today just walked into a predominately black elementary school and started shooting and you had nothing to say about race.

    It’s ok, because by defining an action or activity by race it allows us to place a value on a person’s worth, it allows us to be acceptable of a crime or to be outraged by a crime, More importantly it allows us to accept collective punishment.
    SIN EATERS--We take the moral excrement we find in this equation and we bury it down deep inside of us so that the rest of our case can stay pure. That is the job. We are morally indefensible and absolutely necessary.
  • Guitar92playerGuitar92player Posts: 664
    puremagic wrote:
    PJ51390 wrote:
    Again, not trying to argue with anyone, just want to know thoughts on why there is no public outcry about this...is it because the victims were white? Is it because (white) people would be considered racists if they rallied or protested? Is it not that big of a deal? I just can't figure it out...

    The shooting of the Aussie has been on the news all day long. The so-called baby killer case is old because it was moved to a different city and is just now coming up for trial.

    and yet, here you are from Atlanta, where a white man today just walked into a predominately black elementary school and started shooting and you had nothing to say about race.

    Good points
    ~Carter~

    You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
    or you can come to terms and realize
    you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
    makes much more sense to live in the present tense     - Present Tense
  • PJ51390PJ51390 Posts: 728
    puremagic wrote:
    PJ51390 wrote:
    Again, not trying to argue with anyone, just want to know thoughts on why there is no public outcry about this...is it because the victims were white? Is it because (white) people would be considered racists if they rallied or protested? Is it not that big of a deal? I just can't figure it out...

    The shooting of the Aussie has been on the news all day long. The so-called baby killer case is old because it was moved to a different city and is just now coming up for trial.

    and yet, here you are from Atlanta, where a white man today just walked into a predominately black elementary school and started shooting and you had nothing to say about race.

    It’s ok, because by defining an action or activity by race it allows us to place a value on a person’s worth, it allows us to be acceptable of a crime or to be outraged by a crime, More importantly it allows us to accept collective punishment.

    I guess what I cannot figure out is why it is newsworthy that a white guy was in a black school, and there is NO mention in the article I posted that three black kids killed the Aussie.

    And there is also no mention of the black kid that killed the baby, that the baby was white. I just cannot figure out why it is newsworthy when a white kills a black, but it is not mentioned (or rarely mentioned) if a black kills a white.

    And I totally agree with the news being a business. They sold out a long time ago.
  • Guitar92playerGuitar92player Posts: 664
    PJ51390 wrote:
    puremagic wrote:
    PJ51390 wrote:
    Again, not trying to argue with anyone, just want to know thoughts on why there is no public outcry about this...is it because the victims were white? Is it because (white) people would be considered racists if they rallied or protested? Is it not that big of a deal? I just can't figure it out...

    The shooting of the Aussie has been on the news all day long. The so-called baby killer case is old because it was moved to a different city and is just now coming up for trial.

    and yet, here you are from Atlanta, where a white man today just walked into a predominately black elementary school and started shooting and you had nothing to say about race.

    It’s ok, because by defining an action or activity by race it allows us to place a value on a person’s worth, it allows us to be acceptable of a crime or to be outraged by a crime, More importantly it allows us to accept collective punishment.

    I guess what I cannot figure out is why it is newsworthy that a white guy was in a black school, and there is NO mention in the article I posted that three black kids killed the Aussie.

    And there is also no mention of the black kid that killed the baby, that the baby was white. I just cannot figure out why it is newsworthy when a white kills a black, but it is not mentioned (or rarely mentioned) if a black kills a white.

    And I totally agree with the news being a business. They sold out a long time ago.

    The two stories you mentioned though had nothing to do with race. Trayvon's did because Zimmerman had some questionable remarks regarding african americans and that they "always get away." It was seen as racism.

    The three black kids went to kill anybody, regardless of race. The other story showed no racial motive.
    ~Carter~

    You can spend your time alone, redigesting past regrets, oh
    or you can come to terms and realize
    you're the only one who can't forgive yourself, oh
    makes much more sense to live in the present tense     - Present Tense
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