Isn't it about time we did away with nukes?
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,675
After seeing the movie "Thirteen Days" recently I was reminded of the ongoing paranoia foisted on us in the 50's in grade school with the "duck and cover" bullshit we were put through. Our teachers used to tell us, "OK, kids, if you see a bright flash outside that means a nuclear bomb has gone off so get under you desk." We were like, "Yeah, right, my desk is going to save me from a nuclear explosion." :roll:
"Thirteen Days" reminded me of just how close we barely escaped total annihilation back in 1962 (and, actually, a number of other times). Here we are, 50 to 60 years later and not only do we still have a shit load of these monstrously horrible things but know we read they are still failing safety and security inspections. What is wrong with this picture?!? :wtf:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/1 ... 51789.html
Nuclear Unit Fails Key Security Test
WASHINGTON — An Air Force unit that operates one-third of the nation's land-based nuclear missiles has failed a safety and security inspection, marking the second major setback this year for a force charged with the military's most sensitive mission, the general in charge of the nuclear air force told The Associated Press on Tuesday.
Lt. Gen. James M. Kowalski, commander of Air Force Global Strike Command, said a team of "relatively low-ranking" airmen failed one exercise as part of a broader inspection, which began last week and ended Tuesday. He said that for security reasons he could not be specific about the team or the exercise.
"This unit fumbled on this exercise," Kowalski said by telephone from his headquarters at Barksdale Air Force Base, La., adding that this did not call into question the safety or control of nuclear weapons at Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana.
"The team did not demonstrate the right procedures," he said, and as a result was rated a failure.
To elaborate "could reveal a potential vulnerability" in the force, Kowalski said.
In a written statement on its website, Kowalski's command said there had been "tactical-level errors" in the snap exercise, revealing "discrepancies."
Without more details it is difficult to reliably judge the extent and severity of the problem uncovered at Malmstrom, home of the 341st Missile Wing, which is one of three nuclear missile wings. Each wing operates 150 Minuteman 3 intercontinental ballistic missiles, or ICBMs, on alert for potential launch against targets around the globe.
On Capitol Hill, a spokesman for Rep. Howard "Buck" McKeon, R-Calif., chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, said that "two troubling inspections in a row at two different missile wings is unacceptable" to McKeon.
"It is his sense that the Air Force must refocus on the nuclear mission," spokesman John Noonan said. "The Air Force should hold failed leadership at the group and wing level accountable, recommit itself from the top down to the nuclear deterrent mission, and ensure a daily focus on its centrality to our nation's security."
In response to word of the failed inspection, the press secretary for the Pentagon, George Little, said the bottom line for nuclear forces hasn't changed: "Our nuclear forces remain fully capable and ready."
"While the fact that the unit made errors during this exercise is disappointing, this type of exercise is designed to push people to their limits and learn how to improve," Little said.
Asked whether the Air Force intends to take disciplinary action against anyone for the inspection failure, Kowalski said the Air Force is "looking into it." Overall, the 341st wing "did well," he said, earning ratings of excellent or outstanding in the majority of the 13 areas in which it was graded by inspectors. Those areas include management, administration, safety, security, emergency exercises, worker reliability and other facets of a mission that relies on teams of officers and enlisted personnel.
The acting secretary of the Air Force, Eric Fanning, will meet with Kowalski at his Barksdale headquarters on Wednesday to discuss the Malmstrom situation and other aspects of the broader nuclear mission, according to Brig. Gen. Les Kodlick, the top Air Force spokesman. Kodlick said the visit had been scheduled for "some time" and not in response to the failed inspection.
ICBM wings undergo multiple types of inspections. The one at Malmstrom was a "surety" inspection, which the Pentagon defines as "nuclear weapon system safety, security and control." The point is to ensure that no nuclear weapon is accidentally, inadvertently or deliberately armed or launched without presidential authority.
Kowalski said his command's inspector general has conducted 14 such inspections since early 2010 with just two failures – both involving the 341st wing. The first was in February 2010. The second was this week.
The 341st also failed a safety and security inspection in 2008.
A different type of inspection of the 91st Missile Wing at Minot Air Force Base, N.D., in March of this year led the deputy commander of the wing's operations group to complain of "rot" in the force. Technically, the wing passed that inspection but its missile crews earned the equivalent of a "D" grade when tested on their mastery of Minuteman 3 launch operations using a simulator. The following month the 91st temporarily removed 17 officers from launch control duty – the first time such a large number had been pulled from duty.
In June, the commander in charge of training and proficiency of missile crews at Minot, Lt. Col. Randy Olson, was relieved of duty, citing a "loss of confidence" in his leadership.
Launch operations were not part of the Malmstrom inspection failure, Kowalski said.
The trouble at Minot was the latest in a longer series of setbacks for the Air Force's nuclear mission, highlighted by a 2008 Pentagon advisory group report that found a "dramatic and unacceptable decline" in the Air Force's commitment to the mission, which has its origins in a Cold War standoff with the former Soviet Union.
Following a series of nuclear embarrassments in 2008 – including the inadvertent transport of six nuclear-tipped missiles on a B-52 bomber, whose pilot did not know they were aboard when he flew from Minot to Barksdale Air Force Base, La. – then-Defense Secretary Robert Gates fired the top two Air Force officials.
Kowalski's command was created in late 2009 as part of an effort to fix what was broken in the nuclear force. In Tuesday's interview he said he is encouraged that inspections after 2009 began finding an increasing number of problems at the ICBM wings, followed by a decrease since 2011. He said this tells him that the Air Force has come up with more rigorous, effective means of inspecting, and that they are spurring change.
"This is a difficult inspection," he said, so occasional failures do not point to a systemic failure to adhere to safety and security regulations.
"Thirteen Days" reminded me of just how close we barely escaped total annihilation back in 1962 (and, actually, a number of other times). Here we are, 50 to 60 years later and not only do we still have a shit load of these monstrously horrible things but know we read they are still failing safety and security inspections. What is wrong with this picture?!? :wtf:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/08/1 ... 51789.html
Nuclear Unit Fails Key Security Test
WASHINGTON — An Air Force unit that operates one-third of the nation's land-based nuclear missiles has failed a safety and security inspection, marking the second major setback this year for a force charged with the military's most sensitive mission, the general in charge of the nuclear air force told The Associated Press on Tuesday.
Lt. Gen. James M. Kowalski, commander of Air Force Global Strike Command, said a team of "relatively low-ranking" airmen failed one exercise as part of a broader inspection, which began last week and ended Tuesday. He said that for security reasons he could not be specific about the team or the exercise.
"This unit fumbled on this exercise," Kowalski said by telephone from his headquarters at Barksdale Air Force Base, La., adding that this did not call into question the safety or control of nuclear weapons at Malmstrom Air Force Base in Montana.
"The team did not demonstrate the right procedures," he said, and as a result was rated a failure.
To elaborate "could reveal a potential vulnerability" in the force, Kowalski said.
In a written statement on its website, Kowalski's command said there had been "tactical-level errors" in the snap exercise, revealing "discrepancies."
Without more details it is difficult to reliably judge the extent and severity of the problem uncovered at Malmstrom, home of the 341st Missile Wing, which is one of three nuclear missile wings. Each wing operates 150 Minuteman 3 intercontinental ballistic missiles, or ICBMs, on alert for potential launch against targets around the globe.
On Capitol Hill, a spokesman for Rep. Howard "Buck" McKeon, R-Calif., chairman of the House Armed Services Committee, said that "two troubling inspections in a row at two different missile wings is unacceptable" to McKeon.
"It is his sense that the Air Force must refocus on the nuclear mission," spokesman John Noonan said. "The Air Force should hold failed leadership at the group and wing level accountable, recommit itself from the top down to the nuclear deterrent mission, and ensure a daily focus on its centrality to our nation's security."
In response to word of the failed inspection, the press secretary for the Pentagon, George Little, said the bottom line for nuclear forces hasn't changed: "Our nuclear forces remain fully capable and ready."
"While the fact that the unit made errors during this exercise is disappointing, this type of exercise is designed to push people to their limits and learn how to improve," Little said.
Asked whether the Air Force intends to take disciplinary action against anyone for the inspection failure, Kowalski said the Air Force is "looking into it." Overall, the 341st wing "did well," he said, earning ratings of excellent or outstanding in the majority of the 13 areas in which it was graded by inspectors. Those areas include management, administration, safety, security, emergency exercises, worker reliability and other facets of a mission that relies on teams of officers and enlisted personnel.
The acting secretary of the Air Force, Eric Fanning, will meet with Kowalski at his Barksdale headquarters on Wednesday to discuss the Malmstrom situation and other aspects of the broader nuclear mission, according to Brig. Gen. Les Kodlick, the top Air Force spokesman. Kodlick said the visit had been scheduled for "some time" and not in response to the failed inspection.
ICBM wings undergo multiple types of inspections. The one at Malmstrom was a "surety" inspection, which the Pentagon defines as "nuclear weapon system safety, security and control." The point is to ensure that no nuclear weapon is accidentally, inadvertently or deliberately armed or launched without presidential authority.
Kowalski said his command's inspector general has conducted 14 such inspections since early 2010 with just two failures – both involving the 341st wing. The first was in February 2010. The second was this week.
The 341st also failed a safety and security inspection in 2008.
A different type of inspection of the 91st Missile Wing at Minot Air Force Base, N.D., in March of this year led the deputy commander of the wing's operations group to complain of "rot" in the force. Technically, the wing passed that inspection but its missile crews earned the equivalent of a "D" grade when tested on their mastery of Minuteman 3 launch operations using a simulator. The following month the 91st temporarily removed 17 officers from launch control duty – the first time such a large number had been pulled from duty.
In June, the commander in charge of training and proficiency of missile crews at Minot, Lt. Col. Randy Olson, was relieved of duty, citing a "loss of confidence" in his leadership.
Launch operations were not part of the Malmstrom inspection failure, Kowalski said.
The trouble at Minot was the latest in a longer series of setbacks for the Air Force's nuclear mission, highlighted by a 2008 Pentagon advisory group report that found a "dramatic and unacceptable decline" in the Air Force's commitment to the mission, which has its origins in a Cold War standoff with the former Soviet Union.
Following a series of nuclear embarrassments in 2008 – including the inadvertent transport of six nuclear-tipped missiles on a B-52 bomber, whose pilot did not know they were aboard when he flew from Minot to Barksdale Air Force Base, La. – then-Defense Secretary Robert Gates fired the top two Air Force officials.
Kowalski's command was created in late 2009 as part of an effort to fix what was broken in the nuclear force. In Tuesday's interview he said he is encouraged that inspections after 2009 began finding an increasing number of problems at the ICBM wings, followed by a decrease since 2011. He said this tells him that the Air Force has come up with more rigorous, effective means of inspecting, and that they are spurring change.
"This is a difficult inspection," he said, so occasional failures do not point to a systemic failure to adhere to safety and security regulations.
"It's a sad and beautiful world"
-Roberto Benigni
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
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i did not read what you put up but its not true that other countries are dissarming there nukes the media and goverment are telling americans that they are so we will get rid of ours when in fack other countries have grown big time they never stopped. Somethings wrong with this pitcher this is something Obama and his people are telling americans he must go even thow hes only a puppet to the elite0
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jw234911 wrote:i did not read what you put up
But you respond with what follows? :roll:jw234911 wrote:but its not true that other countries are dissarming there nukes the media and goverment are telling americans that they are so we will get rid of ours when in fack
Sorry but, where's my red pencil?jw234911 wrote:other countries have grown big time they never stopped. Somethings wrong with this pitcher this is something Obama and his people are telling americans he must go even thow hes only a puppet to the elite
This is an Obama thing? Surely you jest? :fp:"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
This is an Obama thing? Surely you jest? :fp:
Everything is an "Obama thing"
Didn't you know that???
D'UH!!! :fp:
0 -
Brian, you forgot one!! I need my red pencil for your red penciljw234911 wrote:Somethings wrong with this pitcher
I couldn't agree more, Verlander does not look right this yearNone are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '130 -
Bentleyspop wrote:This is an Obama thing? Surely you jest? :fp:
Everything is an "Obama thing"
Didn't you know that???
D'UH!!! :fp:
AUGGHHH!!! It's Obama's fault!
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
In a perfect world I'd say yes ... but the world's not perfect and the knowledge as to how make them exist, so somewhere, someone is always going to have nukes so basically nukes are used more as a deterrent today than for any other reason ... imo.I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon0 -
My knowledge on this subject is admittedly limited, but I tend to agree with this line of thought.lukin2006 wrote:In a perfect world I'd say yes ... but the world's not perfect and the knowledge as to how make them exist, so somewhere, someone is always going to have nukes so basically nukes are used more as a deterrent today than for any other reason ... imo.
(and really? Chiding someone over their spelling and grammar [and to give benefit of the doubt, on an international board, yet]? I thought this place was above that - and this is coming from someone pretty anal in that realm. C'mon, man!)0 -
hedonist wrote:
My knowledge on this subject is admittedly limited, but I tend to agree with this line of thought.lukin2006 wrote:In a perfect world I'd say yes ... but the world's not perfect and the knowledge as to how make them exist, so somewhere, someone is always going to have nukes so basically nukes are used more as a deterrent today than for any other reason ... imo.
With all due respect, I don't see how keeping around a bunch of nuclear bomb is a deterrent anything. If you read up on the history a little (highly recommended) you'll soon discover that the world (that is, most living things) has been on the brink of annihilation several times as a result of having stockpiles of nuclear weapons. The fact that the U.S. has a shit load of nukes is not a deterrent to some crazed individual putting a nuke in a suitcase or some desperate small country going off the deep end and shooting one of these things off because some crazy despot thinks it's a righteous idea.
Your reaction here truly surprised me, hedonist.hedonist wrote:(and really? Chiding someone over their spelling and grammar [and to give benefit of the doubt, on an international board, yet]? I thought this place was above that - and this is coming from someone pretty anal in that realm. C'mon, man!)
Ok, good call- sort of. My chiding was more related to the laziness of the post. The person did not read the article and then dashed off something with the flavor of a strong opinion but that person did not take the time to check something as obviously erroneous as "fack". Am I to take this kind of post seriously?"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
brianlux wrote:hedonist wrote:
My knowledge on this subject is admittedly limited, but I tend to agree with this line of thought.lukin2006 wrote:In a perfect world I'd say yes ... but the world's not perfect and the knowledge as to how make them exist, so somewhere, someone is always going to have nukes so basically nukes are used more as a deterrent today than for any other reason ... imo.
With all due respect, I don't see how keeping around a bunch of nuclear bomb is a deterrent anything. If you read up on the history a little (highly recommended) you'll soon discover that the world (that is, most living things) has been on the brink of annihilation several times as a result of having stockpiles of nuclear weapons. The fact that the U.S. has a shit load of nukes is not a deterrent to some crazed individual putting a nuke in a suitcase or some desperate small country going off the deep end and shooting one of these things off because some crazy despot thinks it's a righteous idea.
Your reaction here truly surprised me, hedonist.hedonist wrote:(and really? Chiding someone over their spelling and grammar [and to give benefit of the doubt, on an international board, yet]? I thought this place was above that - and this is coming from someone pretty anal in that realm. C'mon, man!)
Ok, good call- sort of. My chiding was more related to the laziness of the post. The person did not read the article and then dashed off something with the flavor of a strong opinion but that person did not take the time to check something as obviously erroneous as "fack". Am I to take this kind of post seriously?
Like I said it was just my opinion ... but facts are this ... when the US were the only ones with the bomb, it was used, since other countries have obtained this weapon the bomb has never been used ...I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon0 -
brianlux wrote:hedonist wrote:
My knowledge on this subject is admittedly limited, but I tend to agree with this line of thought.lukin2006 wrote:In a perfect world I'd say yes ... but the world's not perfect and the knowledge as to how make them exist, so somewhere, someone is always going to have nukes so basically nukes are used more as a deterrent today than for any other reason ... imo.
With all due respect, I don't see how keeping around a bunch of nuclear bomb is a deterrent anything. If you read up on the history a little (highly recommended) you'll soon discover that the world (that is, most living things) has been on the brink of annihilation several times as a result of having stockpiles of nuclear weapons. The fact that the U.S. has a shit load of nukes is not a deterrent to some crazed individual putting a nuke in a suitcase or some desperate small country going off the deep end and shooting one of these things off because some crazy despot thinks it's a righteous idea.
Your reaction here truly surprised me, hedonist.hedonist wrote:(and really? Chiding someone over their spelling and grammar [and to give benefit of the doubt, on an international board, yet]? I thought this place was above that - and this is coming from someone pretty anal in that realm. C'mon, man!)
Ok, good call- sort of. My chiding was more related to the laziness of the post. The person did not read the article and then dashed off something with the flavor of a strong opinion but that person did not take the time to check something as obviously erroneous as "fack". Am I to take this kind of post seriously?lukin2006 wrote:Like I said it was just my opinion ... but facts are this ... when the US were the only ones with the bomb, it was used, since other countries have obtained this weapon the bomb has never been used ...
Pray to God, Buddha, the oceans, stones, sacred plants- what ever- that they don't. I sometimes feel like we're living on borrowed time. Make each day count. (Not a bad way to live, regardless.)"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
brianlux wrote:brianlux wrote:hedonist wrote:My knowledge on this subject is admittedly limited, but I tend to agree with this line of thought.
With all due respect, I don't see how keeping around a bunch of nuclear bomb is a deterrent anything. If you read up on the history a little (highly recommended) you'll soon discover that the world (that is, most living things) has been on the brink of annihilation several times as a result of having stockpiles of nuclear weapons. The fact that the U.S. has a shit load of nukes is not a deterrent to some crazed individual putting a nuke in a suitcase or some desperate small country going off the deep end and shooting one of these things off because some crazy despot thinks it's a righteous idea.
Your reaction here truly surprised me, hedonist.hedonist wrote:(and really? Chiding someone over their spelling and grammar [and to give benefit of the doubt, on an international board, yet]? I thought this place was above that - and this is coming from someone pretty anal in that realm. C'mon, man!)
Ok, good call- sort of. My chiding was more related to the laziness of the post. The person did not read the article and then dashed off something with the flavor of a strong opinion but that person did not take the time to check something as obviously erroneous as "fack". Am I to take this kind of post seriously?lukin2006 wrote:Like I said it was just my opinion ... but facts are this ... when the US were the only ones with the bomb, it was used, since other countries have obtained this weapon the bomb has never been used ...
Pray to God, Buddha, the oceans, stones, sacred plants- what ever- that they don't. I sometimes feel like we're living on borrowed time. Make each day count. (Not a bad way to live, regardless.)
I for one hope its never used again as well ... Oddly enough I don't fear the so called rogue nations obtaining them ... I fear that someone like Hitler could come to power (and lust for more) in a country with the resources to develop many of these weapons ... which is why in my opinion they'll never be done away with (which I would agree is unfortunate).I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon0 -
jw234911 wrote:i did not read what you put up but its not true that other countries are dissarming there nukes the media and goverment are telling americans that they are so we will get rid of ours when in fack other countries have grown big time they never stopped. Somethings wrong with this pitcher this is something Obama and his people are telling americans he must go even thow hes only a puppet to the elite
Geezuz, man.
...
Never mind. Post says it all- in particular the part that says, "i did not read what you put up."
thow and fack and pitcher are pretty close though."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
Saw this the other day, so messed:
A Time-Lapse Map of Every Nuclear Explosion Since 1945
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY
" It starts really slow — if you want to see real action, skip ahead to 1962 or so"0 -
Drowned Out wrote:Saw this the other day, so messed:
A Time-Lapse Map of Every Nuclear Explosion Since 1945
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY
" It starts really slow — if you want to see real action, skip ahead to 1962 or so"
Thanks for posting this, Drowned Out. It tells the story better than most words. One of my nephews sent me a link to this video a while back. To get the full effect it's worth watching the whole thing. It's all right there. This is craziness. Koyaanisqatsi."It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
i posted this in another thread but i think its pretty apt for here
A couple of good pieces here of various viewpoints
http://sistemas.mre.gov.br/kitweb/dataf ... 20Bomb.pdf
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/world/ju ... 07-09.html
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinio ... 49131.html0 -
unsung I stopped by on March 7 2024. First time in many years, had to update payment info. Hope all is well. Politicians suck. Bye. Posts: 9,487I say get rid of all the missiles, just keep a few strategic ones or maybe some sub ones. The upkeep is too expensive for the entire arsenal.0 -
jw234911 wrote:i did not read what you put up but its not true that other countries are dissarming there nukes the media and goverment are telling americans that they are so we will get rid of ours when in fack other countries have grown big time they never stopped. Somethings wrong with this pitcher this is something Obama and his people are telling americans he must go even thow hes only a puppet to the elite
Oh my god please go back to school ...jesus greets me looks just like me ....0 -
Caveeze wrote:Brian, you forgot one!! I need my red pencil for your red penciljw234911 wrote:Somethings wrong with this pitcher
I couldn't agree more, Verlander does not look right this year
I think his last start could have turned his season around.
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well i made it to 1980 & so far there have been 1571 nuclear blasts set off from 6 different countries. i am completely sad & depressed now. this is numbingDrowned Out wrote:Saw this the other day, so messed:
A Time-Lapse Map of Every Nuclear Explosion Since 1945
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LLCF7vPanrY
" It starts really slow — if you want to see real action, skip ahead to 1962 or so"
a number of the powers that be are doing there best to destroy all life on this planet. who gave them this right? what gives them the right to annihilate? this is nothing but vile, evil, despicable leadership. then governments wonder why folks rebel against them. this is sheer insanity
every single creature on this planet deserves a chance at happiness, full time, without some big shot government destroying them. human beings yet again disgust my every bitfor poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce0 -
...jw234911 wrote:i did not read what you put up but its not true that other countries are dissarming there nukes the media and goverment are telling americans that they are so we will get rid of ours when in fack other countries have grown big time they never stopped. Somethings wrong with this pitcher this is something Obama and his people are telling americans he must go even thow hes only a puppet to the elite
This is the opposite equivalent to these, 'Bush Sucks' comments we heard in 2001-2008.
I thought they were signs of limited intelligence from politically inept numbnuts back then.
...
Nothing has changed.Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!0
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