Black box in your car.

Godfather.

A proposed federal rule that would require black boxes or event data recorders (EDRs) in every U.S. automobile may mean “Big Brother” could be in your passenger seat for every drive.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration rule requires all light passenger vehicles be equipped with an EDR by Sep.1, 2014. Ninety-six percent of new cars already have them -- measuring such inputs as speed, lateral acceleration, pedal effort, seat belt use, wheel spin, steering wheel turn and direction.

They only record information in the brief period before and after a crash. But black box data retrieved from U.S. car accidents in a single day would provide more information than a year's worth of crash testing, says Tom Kowalick, who heads the design team that is standardizing the devices for automakers worldwide.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08 ... z2br5D4SRi

any thoughts ?

Godfather.

callen

Great topic Godfather...think about his often.
As your post states, most cars already have them and have had them for many years. Judges routinely order boxes read and evidence used against owners in court cases. It sucks that your property can be used against you. Many companies that have fleets of vehicles have boxes analyzed if their employee gets into an accident. Funny though that if you call your local dealer to have one read..they get all wishy washy about being able to do it. Some will, some won’t and manufacturers don’t advertise this privacy invading feature. There are a few companies that will do it for a fee. Some companies with fleet vehicles add additional components to allow live monitoring of speed, location, seatbelt usage etc pulling information from the black box.
I’ve only recently purchased cars with boxes, preferring to drive non-computerized vehicles..but alas I’ve fallen for all the modern creature comforts of electronics. For those entrepreneurs out there...would be great to create quick means to wipe out box on your vehicle in event you fear it being used against you.
Somewhat related are insurance companies that will give you a “DISCOUNT” if you allow them to voluntarily monitor your driving via the same system (Progressive?). This sucks big time and would hope this will not succeed. I don’t need to be monitored and don’t want to pay a premium to not have it done...hope people realize this..but alas it will become norm.
Guess I’ll drive the 71 Chevy more and more and air conditioned seats be damned.

Idris

How about people wanting to have it all 'connected'? The black box works with drones, everytime a driver goes over the posted speed limit, they get emailed a speeding ticket within a few minutes.

Godfather.

Idris wrote:

How about people wanting to have it all 'connected'? The black box works with drones, everytime a driver goes over the posted speed limit, they get emailed a speeding ticket within a few minutes.

that wouldn't suprize me sense there are already camras in intersection, but I also believe that those black boxes can be disconnected.

note to all: buy classic American cars and trucks.


Godfather.

hedonist

callen wrote:

Guess I’ll drive the 71 Chevy more and more and air conditioned seats be damned.

Sweet! What model?

I can see the benefits of this, but...if I buy a car, it's MY car, no? No part of it should be owned (by virtue of monitoring) by anyone else.

My guy got a Camaro in 2009; Onstar came with it free for a period of time. OK fine, never know when you may need it.

Turns out it wasn't needed, but doing away with it wasn't so simple (even without paying for it beyond the freebie period); took quite a bit of time and back-and-forth communications. Just get rid of the damn thing! Shouldn't be so difficult.

brianlux

I can't say I like the idea overall although some argue that in the case of an accident where it's the other drivers fault it could prove to be useful. I guess I've become overly fatalistic about this sort of thing. Everything is monitored, every move is seen. It will be this will until the great unraveling.

StillHere

Idris wrote:

How about people wanting to have it all 'connected'? The black box works with drones, everytime a driver goes over the posted speed limit, they get emailed a speeding ticket within a few minutes.

We already have these signs all over the place, have for years, but these black boxes would make, I would think, satellite enforcement possible.



This interesting report from 2010 ~ http://lsned.com/facts/police-aircraft/

StillHere

Remember when we all scoffed at this?
That'll never happen we said. No way.



i remember seeing this play in the 70s and thinking no way will the world ever allow this to happen. pfffftttt!

Idris

StillHere wrote:

Idris wrote:

How about people wanting to have it all 'connected'? The black box works with drones, everytime a driver goes over the posted speed limit, they get emailed a speeding ticket within a few minutes.

We already have these signs all over the place, have for years, but these black boxes would make, I would think, satellite enforcement possible.



This interesting report from 2010 ~ http://lsned.com/facts/police-aircraft/

Ya we also have them here in Florida but I think due to costs/budget cuts? they don't fly very often. Drones would probably be used all the time.

Taking pics of us, monitoring our 'speed' and sending us our 'speeding tickets'

callen

StillHere wrote:

Remember when we all scoffed at this?
That'll never happen we said. No way.



i remember seeing this play in the 70s and thinking no way will the world ever allow this to happen. pfffftttt!

Then we have the "well if your not doing anything wrong why are you worried" argument. :fp:

badbrains

callen wrote:

StillHere wrote:

Remember when we all scoffed at this?
That'll never happen we said. No way.



i remember seeing this play in the 70s and thinking no way will the world ever allow this to happen. pfffftttt!

Then we have the "well if your not doing anything wrong why are you worried" argument. :fp:

Both, yet people refuse to believe what's really going on. :fp:

mickeyrat

brianlux wrote:

I can't say I like the idea overall although some argue that in the case of an accident where it's the other drivers fault it could prove to be useful. I guess I've become overly fatalistic about this sort of thing. Everything is monitored, every move is seen. It will be this will until the great unraveling.

It could also help provide relief to the trucking industry for bad practices by drivers of cars in the event of an accident. Lawyers crawl up a drivers ass six ways from sunday for the big pay day. As a result we truckers are burdened with more and more regulations that does affect our pay.


While there are certainly aggressive truck drivers( who should be dealt with accordingly), the majority of accidents involving trucks and cars are due to a lack of respect on the limitations of trucks to stop quickly or speed up by drivers of cars.

Theres a valid reason why there is so much space in front of some trucks. Its needed to fully bring the truck to a stop if needed.

StillHere

We "could' have the if you're not doing anything wrong why are you worried argument, but i think we are way way past that. the problem with big brother watching your every move is that they might think you are doing something wrong from their vantage point, when you are just going about your mundane life. happens all the time. just watch the news some night.
as long as i'm not hurting anyone (other than myself, if i so choose) i feel that its no one's business what i am doing, no matter what it is. if i want to smoke pot, if i want to drive 5 mph over the speed limit on my way to work, if i happen to break a bit hard before i take the corner, if i want to have straighties or baffles on my harley, if i want to grow herb in my windowsill, if i want to practice magic in my back yard, if i want to build a shed or a treehouse or store a project car in my back yard, if i want to spend some time talking with someone in a country that we are not overly friendly with on the internet that i pay WAY too much for, if i want to hold church of pearl jam meetings in my basement, if i want to wear plaid socks and striped shoes, whose business is it?
everyone and their brother is way too interested in the private lives of others.
i understand homeland security. i do. and its important for sure. there are reasons. but there need to be limits. unless someone's given reason for suspicion, real honest reason, i'm not for it one bit. call me old fashioned.

hedonist

StillHere wrote:

We "could' have the if you're not doing anything wrong why are you worried argument, but i think we are way way past that. the problem with big brother watching your every move is that they might think you are doing something wrong from their vantage point, when you are just going about your mundane life. happens all the time. just watch the news some night.
as long as i'm not hurting anyone (other than myself, if i so choose) i feel that its no one's business what i am doing, no matter what it is. if i want to smoke pot, if i want to drive 5 mph over the speed limit on my way to work, if i happen to break a bit hard before i take the corner, if i want to have straighties or baffles on my harley, if i want to grow herb in my windowsill, if i want to practice magic in my back yard, if i want to build a shed or a treehouse or store a project car in my back yard, if i want to spend some time talking with someone in a country that we are not overly friendly with on the internet that i pay WAY too much for, if i want to hold church of pearl jam meetings in my basement, if i want to wear plaid socks and striped shoes, whose business is it?
everyone and their brother is way too interested in the private lives of others.
i understand homeland security. i do. and its important for sure. there are reasons. but there need to be limits. unless someone's given reason for suspicion, real honest reason, i'm not for it one bit. call me old fashioned.

We'd make good neighbors

Godfather.

Could we become a nation of digital squealers? Will technology go beyond state-sponsored surveillance of our behavior and turn us all into a society of snitches?

The ubiquity of smartphones has put James Bond-style spy tools into everyone's hand, enabling us to secretly record video, audio and pictures, and instantly stream it all online. That can be a good thing when you catch junior hitting a home run and then send the video to grandma, or tag a family reunion picture for relatives who couldn't attend. But what if you snap a scofflaw parked in an illegal space and send the image to the local constabulary? That's what at least one company has proposed doing with an app.

Dubbed Spot Squad, the app is the brainchild of a Canadian startup in Winnipeg, Manitoba. The app still isn't live, and the company did not respond to a press inquiry, but the program raises some interesting possibilities. Peeved citizens could take pictures (complete with license plate numbers) of cars parked in, say, spaces intended for handicapped drivers, then beam the shot to parking patrols, who would in turn issue tickets. As an added incentive tipsters could get a cut of the ticket fine.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/tech/2013/08/14/ ... z2bxOzkdSa




Godfather.

StillHere

mickeyrat wrote:

brianlux wrote:

I can't say I like the idea overall although some argue that in the case of an accident where it's the other drivers fault it could prove to be useful. I guess I've become overly fatalistic about this sort of thing. Everything is monitored, every move is seen. It will be this will until the great unraveling.

It could also help provide relief to the trucking industry for bad practices by drivers of cars in the event of an accident. Lawyers crawl up a drivers ass six ways from sunday for the big pay day. As a result we truckers are burdened with more and more regulations that does affect our pay.


While there are certainly aggressive truck drivers( who should be dealt with accordingly), the majority of accidents involving trucks and cars are due to a lack of respect on the limitations of trucks to stop quickly or speed up by drivers of cars.

Theres a valid reason why there is so much space in front of some trucks. Its needed to fully bring the truck to a stop if needed.

ha! i "used" to think that since trucks had so many wheels that meant that they had so many brakes and they should be able to stop faster! wow, was i wrong! (and it didn't take long for some drivers to point that out to me)

38

StillHere

hedonist wrote:

-
We'd make good neighbors

:wave:

Cosmo

Data recorders are just that... data recorders, not data transmitters. They collect current data and constantly re-writes over it, the same way a camera security recorder in a 7-11 records over the same 12 hour loop.
What they are used for is to determine critical facts recorded just before an accident. The speed of the vehicle, lateral force, steering motions, brakes, etc... This has to be done for one thing... people. People who get into accidents and try to blame everyone else other than their poor driving skills and sue everyone from the manufacturers and the city, county,state and insurance companies. The data can be used to re-construct an accident and determine which driver was at fault, rather that relying on the driver's witness account... which is always, 'It's the other guys' fault'.
That way, the fucking idiot that is going 87 MPH on a rain soaked highway, texting some worthless information to people who don't care what he is doing, flys off an overpass, then tries to sue the car company, his insurance company, the city, county and state the accident took place for his stupid decision making and poor driving skills.

mickeyrat

StillHere wrote:

mickeyrat wrote:

brianlux wrote:

I can't say I like the idea overall although some argue that in the case of an accident where it's the other drivers fault it could prove to be useful. I guess I've become overly fatalistic about this sort of thing. Everything is monitored, every move is seen. It will be this will until the great unraveling.

It could also help provide relief to the trucking industry for bad practices by drivers of cars in the event of an accident. Lawyers crawl up a drivers ass six ways from sunday for the big pay day. As a result we truckers are burdened with more and more regulations that does affect our pay.


While there are certainly aggressive truck drivers( who should be dealt with accordingly), the majority of accidents involving trucks and cars are due to a lack of respect on the limitations of trucks to stop quickly or speed up by drivers of cars.

Theres a valid reason why there is so much space in front of some trucks. Its needed to fully bring the truck to a stop if needed.

ha! i "used" to think that since trucks had so many wheels that meant that they had so many brakes and they should be able to stop faster! wow, was i wrong! (and it didn't take long for some drivers to point that out to me)

38

well it is true there is a brake chamber at each wheel, BUT there is so much that goes into the mechanics of braking. Like total vehicle weight, road conditions, Speed, condition of the brakes themselves and the drums. . Strange as it sounds, the more weight (30 to 40 K)the shorter the stopping distance . The less weight, like I usually haul(15k and under) means a greater stopping distance.

A truck maxed out at 80Klbs in ideal conditions will stop in 450 feet at 45 MPH with firm pressure on the pedal.

josevolution

Cosmo wrote:

Data recorders are just that... data recorders, not data transmitters. They collect current data and constantly re-writes over it, the same way a camera security recorder in a 7-11 records over the same 12 hour loop.
What they are used for is to determine critical facts recorded just before an accident. The speed of the vehicle, lateral force, steering motions, brakes, etc... This has to be done for one thing... people. People who get into accidents and try to blame everyone else other than their poor driving skills and sue everyone from the manufacturers and the city, county,state and insurance companies. The data can be used to re-construct an accident and determine which driver was at fault, rather that relying on the driver's witness account... which is always, 'It's the other guys' fault'.
That way, the fucking idiot that is going 87 MPH on a rain soaked highway, texting some worthless information to people who don't care what he is doing, flys off an overpass, then tries to sue the car company, his insurance company, the city, county and state the accident took place for his stupid decision making and poor driving skills.

This ^^^^^^^^