Racism as an excuse in the workplace now?
Hugh Freaking Dillon
Posts: 14,010
My boss is Asian. He speaks very broken English, and can be barely understood half the time. No problem. That's everywhere (one coworker of mine keeps bitching that he needs to take English classes if he wants to be a manager in Canada-good lord).
The problem is, he's an asshole. Whenever someone bitches about him, it never fails that I hear "it must be a cultural thing"; I also got this from HIS boss when I went to her to talk about something he did. WHAT? Does no one realize that this is basically using racism as an EXCUSE? How is this acceptable? This is no different than if I said to my boss "he probably did this because he's Asian". I'd be fired on the spot. Turning it around for use in benefiting someone is the same damn thing as trying to use it against someone.
Does anyone else get this at work?
The problem is, he's an asshole. Whenever someone bitches about him, it never fails that I hear "it must be a cultural thing"; I also got this from HIS boss when I went to her to talk about something he did. WHAT? Does no one realize that this is basically using racism as an EXCUSE? How is this acceptable? This is no different than if I said to my boss "he probably did this because he's Asian". I'd be fired on the spot. Turning it around for use in benefiting someone is the same damn thing as trying to use it against someone.
Does anyone else get this at work?
Gimli 1993
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we have a guy at work that has been here for 40 years and I have worked with him the last 10, the man is as lazy as can be and even braggs about how little he works and how much money he makes, a few years back the company and union tried to fire him so he hired a lawyer and when the lawyer couldn't get it done (video of him sleeping in the gym during working hours) he called NAACP and pulled his race card and sued the company and got his job back with back pay including over time and a settlement,this guy is a pro at playing the system but I guess after as many years as he has been here you have to be good at something.
Godfather.
I agree, although its not about doing the right thing, it's about keeping the company out of court.
(as is the fact that the term "protected classes" even exists)
Yeah, because the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and all Title VII employment laws are totally unneccessary... says the white people.
of course those laws are necessary, but I'm getting sick and tired of people being allowed to act like assholes or inappropriately and get away with it because they aren't white.
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Sorry pal. I used to like you. Was that because I thought we you were white? People don't like you because you're a dick, not because you are brown.
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Who said that?
It was implied. You just said that HR folks are only interested in keeping the company out of court and not doing the right thing. I find that offensive; I take my role of doing the right thing very seriously.
I think the point is that you can't do the right thing AND keep the company out of court. If there is a choice to be made, out of court will always trump the right thing in big business. Do you disagree with that?
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In the workplace, when you create categories that distinguish people from one another... make special considerations for various categories... and then provide a generous and perhaps unique acceptance for behaviours given one's category... the idea of everybody being the same is somewhat negated.
Don't get me wrong... left unchecked... racial attitudes might flourish in certain areas; however, integration and inclusion laws are feel good band aid solutions to a much more profound problem. When children are raised to view some as inferior, those children grow into fully indoctrinated adults who's attitudes are strongly forged. Then they have children and the cycle perpetuates itself.
The long term solution lies with education and an intolerance of poor attitudes by all. Much easier said than done.
completely agree, and very well said.
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Can we still provide reasonable accomodations for the disabled/injured or should we toss ADA laws out as well while we are trying to treat everyone the same?
Yes, and it stems from the word "always".
ok, let's change that word to "usually".
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NO it wasn't. If faced with this situation, HR looks to keep the company out of court #1 and then hopes to make it as fair and just for those that live with it.
How many times have you made a decision that lead to court?
Of course we need to make reasonable accommodations for the disabled and injured. This was not something I was speaking about- this is another issue not linked to race.
Edit: And I never said toss any laws out. I said we need to move to a state where we don't need to have laws to regulate our behaviour while we strive for equity.
And I'll say that I've been treated differently once some people have found out I'm half-Persian, or (born) Jewish.
(also, I love Pistachowitz! Reminds me of Donna Changstein :P )
How many HR professionals am I dealing with in this thread? I'm curious... Because what you have stated here is absolutely backasswards from how we operate.
Are you taling actual hearings or settlements?
I think you are taking offense where none is meant. Obviously, if it is serious enough, HR will do whatever it has to do. But, until there is significant amount of documentation, etc they can't do anything. And then when it gets to the point of termination, at least at large corporations, legal is heavily involved. So I guess, I should clarify that legal for corporations will suggest not taking action to keep the company out of court.
I do not specifically perform HR duties (well, not most of them), but my boss at each of my last several jobs is the HR manager and I am apart of site leadership discussions regarding employee issues as well. Again, a large corporation.
Oh, and I'm talking actual hearings. I'm assuming it's far more settlements.
I'm not an HR professional but I can speak as a member of 2 of the so-called "protected classes": women and those over 55. I have encountered plenty of sexism during my professional career, mostly in salary, but I was unprepared for how much ageism there is in the workplace. People in my age group are regarded as dinosaurs who are afraid of technology. When we offer our experience, we are just living in the past. We're going to retire soon anyway, so why don't we hurry up and do it so we can make way for all the young folks. Plus, it's our fault that Social Security's going broke.
During my last job search, I was amazed at the attitudes I encountered and that I still hear everyday from people around me. The comment I heard most often at job interviews was a polite "You're overqualified" (translation: you're old, you may have health problems that will drive up insurance costs, you may retire in a couple of years, not worth our while, etc.). No surprise to me when I learned that people who are 55 and over who are laid off have the longest periods before finding new employment, and usually at a considerable pay cut. I was laid off last week, and I'm pretty depressed about going through the whole process again.
You can gripe about reverse discrimination all you want, but the protections are there for a reason. Contrary to what you might think, most people are not going to make use of them until the discrimination is pretty flagrant. Yeah, there will be a jerk here and there that knows how to work the system but I see that in any workplace. Most people would rather get out of a bad job situation than file a complaint.
If your boss is an asshole, then tell management or HR to quit worrying about his culture and do something about his management style. Assholes are not exclusive to Asians, Caucasians, Martians or anybody else. Also, that whole "culture" label may have more to do with English being a second language. I've encountered that with co-workers before.
no one said any one race or culture were assholes.
and no, in my experience as of late, the "culture" thing has nothing to do with his language skills. and he's not the one making excuses using his race; my MANAGER and other COWORKERS are. that's the problem I'm talking about. that people are willing to toss aside idiocy and inappropriateness in the workplace and dismiss it as a culture thing. I find that unacceptable. As unacceptable as if someone's good qualities were tossed aside for the same reason.
and the filipino ass I also mentioned speaks very good english. he just spouts anger when he does.
like it or not, in many cases, my corporation it seems specifically, that white males are actually the minority now. there is no protection because we have been cast as the villian for decades. we suffer because society seems to need to "make it right". the only "right" is dealing with everything and everyone on a case by case basis, not a blanket "he doesn't know better becuase he's from (insert country here)".
on the flip side, I will acknowledge that there are many people in my workplace that seem quite racist, I've heard comments like "we're not in china anymore" and "you're in canada now, buddy" said behind his/their backs, and I speak up and tell them that's racist and they shouldn't say shit like that.
I don't tolerate it on either side of the issue.
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I want to address this quote specifically, because I'm 39. Most people in my office are significantly older than I am. I cannot tell you how many times per day I hear people of the older generation talking about current procedures and changes and inevitibly you always hear the phrase "back in the old days...we did it like (this)".
it is so frustrating to constantly hear about how things were done back in the day. Just accept how it's done now, or talk to the person responsible for changing it, because, as you said, the perception is driven that older people can't accept change and if they can't adapt then they should leave. I hear the "back in the day" quote from more people of that age group than not.
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