The worst government theft...
unsung
Posts: 9,487
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unsung
Posts: 9,487
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That's really not the point! It's a sad day when you die and the government swoops in and grabs 50% of your cash...
Wait... WHAT??!!?!
What a goof, yeah we dont pay enough already. :fp:
I'm curious what you think an acceptable percentage of your income to pay in taxes is?
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30 million dollars- keyrhimony- I can't even think that high.
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
they took their money, then one year later came back for more. basically i was screwed solidly for roughly 8 years sending them hundreds of dollars every single month
i'd put it in the mail a day or two before due date or get it post marked on the due date & in some cases i was a few days late. this was my huge screwing. that only paid into my interest not the actual debt balance itself. fuck
the irs will not be kind to you unless they get their money on or before the exact date. funny shit is they never tell you this until 47 years into the through fucking. the next business day means nothing to them
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Zero death tax.
States should decide their tax code
No. I mean overall, individual tax burden. Feel free to break it down: state, local, federal.
All other should be sales tax only.
Tithing is a great idea- but voluntarily, of course.
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I'd be good with some type of consumption tax, but any tax based on income I'll never go for. Also I will not accept taxes or fees on Constitutionally protected rights.
I'm also against property and inheritance taxes.
Why turn this into a discussion about what Unsung believes is the right amount of tax he should pay...the fact is the death tax is obnoxious. It taxes money that has already been taxed when it was earned. If I make money today, and save it for 50 years it should not be taxed again simply because I die.
This has nothing to do with paying taxes at a reasonable rate when people are alive...that is obfuscating what this is. This has nothing to do with what the surviving members are given, and everything to do with what the person who dies with stuff wants. They want to give it to charity or give it away they are more than welcome to do so. Most want to know that they are able to provide for their family after they pass. Earning a living and keeping the fruits of your labor should never be viewed as a privilege the gov't grants you. That is silly.
they take in plenty of money....they don't need this tax.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Isn't a tax on consumption still theft?
My stance on basing taxes off income is because then government is able to decide how much of your labor you get to keep, it's pretty much slavery on a less extreme nature.
Taxes based on consumption is something I'd choose to accept when making a purchase.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/ashleaebeli ... e-in-2013/
And with all the loop holes and off shore accounts and estate planning, I'd be surprised if anyone who falls into the catagories pays what they "should" owe under the tax code.
http://www.cbpp.org/files/estatetaxmyths.pdf
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this might get kind of boring for some, so if you don't like numbers skip the bold
that is the definite divide between my way of thinking and yours. I don't think me leaving something that I earned to my kids a free handout. Keep in mind that there is an inheritance tax as well. So if I have an estate of 10,000,000 approximately 3,500,000 of that will go to the feds, and some states as well. After that there is ~6,000,000 to be given to my heirs in Minnesota. Who, after receiving the money, pay the state inheritance tax if applicable. So 40% of my money, which had already been taxed mind you when it was earned (if not, like if it was in tax deferred accounts then that tax should absolutely be paid out according to the law) gets taken by the feds and the states simply because I died while have residency there. Seems excessive to me. Inheritance tax I understand much more than a death (estate tax).
But in the end, the money in my account when I died wasn't the gov'ts. It was mine. I should be able to give it to whomever I want. And since MY radical individualism also comes with the caveat that WE are responsible for our neighbors, most of what I end up with will be going to those who don't have. you see, I am all for taking care of the community, I just don't think the best way to do it is through bureaucratic forced giving. That breeds resentment not the feeling of ownership in a community that should come from giving.
The gov't doesn't always know best, and continuing to feed the beast that has shown no signs of ever changing seems strange and wrong to me. The divide between rich and poor is not in any better shape now and yet we give more to the gov't than we ever have before in total dollars. they take it, and put it into the machine, adding to the military budget, continuing to do things around the world that shouldn't be done, and you wonder why I wouldn't want to give them more?
We have a president who I think would tell you he is anti war, but look at what is being done militarily under his watch. It may not have started under his watch, but it sure has continued. I was promised a shut down of Guantanamo, and yet 6 years later, here we are, holding prisoners there. The funding needs to be cut, and the people(us) need to start paying a-fucking-ttention. When I see that, I will support giving the gov't more of my, and by proxy, others earned money.
RW, I understand your frustration with the divide. I just don't believe it is in the governments best interest to ever truly end it. It is in their best interest to increase gov't dependency. I look at the design of the programs through that lens. You think welfare programs are good for folks, and lots do benefit from them...but I ask you, how good can a system be that cuts off benefits based on making 1 dollar more than the cutoff...is someone really that much more self sufficient at 1862 dollars than they are at 1861? well here in MN for your benefits the state would say that you are.
That is why I would prefer my money be able to be given to those programs that can help end it, and the only way to do that is to not have damn near half of it go to the state that will turn around and build a god damn bomb with it and give the spare change to those who can use it most.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
At my University for example we just put $68 million into a Basketball arena that costs $6,000 everytime they open and close the movable seats. At the current rate of repayment it is going to take Towson about 700 years to pay it off - yes 700 not 70. The reason we did it was because our administration thought a winning basketball team could bring in more students and donations (it doesn't or at least doesn't last). They and other Universities have been reduced to doing this because our funding from taxes has slowed to a trickle and I live in super Blue Maryland.
Meanwhile, I haven't seen a raise in my 5 years despite winning 2 international awards for my research, teaching reviews that are through the roof, and service to the University that is pretty top notch. In fact, for three years I had to give back via furloughs, then when we got a one time $500 refund (not even 1/5th the amount I lost) conservative and libertarian talk radio complained about our government handouts. Additionally, if/when I get tenure next year people will complain that I will no longer work a day in my life and that being a professor is sooooooo easy. We have a union with no power, and are relatively powerless to any changes the administrators make. This was part of the deliberate destruction of the University in America from the late 60s on, because poor people were getting too smart and realizing that they were being sold out.
More broadly, what this means is that unions like mine have been eradicated, or lost their power, and are generally looked down upon by the American public as some sort of socialist collective. CEO's make between 400-600 times more than their workers, corporate cronyism is the rule of the day, sweatshop labor and tax free zones for them exist everywhere around the world, and somehow the American public that is far worse off than it was back in the 70s has been convinced that this is a good thing. Yes it sucks to get taxed, and yes many times the government is wasteful, but there has to be a middle way that does involve more taxes because individuals have very measurably demonstrated over the last 40 years that they don't give a shit about anyone but themselves.
consumption/VAT tax.
People shouldn't be taxed for saving money.
Corporate Cronyism wouldn't be as possible if the Gov't wasn't as large and didn't have the regulatory reach that it does. Competition should be protected, all too often it is made harder by the gov't.
Unions have a place in society, there are far too many that seem to focus on protection of the shitty worker at the expense of the worker who excels. That is from personal experience, not simply an opinion. And I think, if you examined yours you would find that you suffered because others who maybe didn't do as good a job, or cared as much, or tried as hard were being protected by your union.
The resentment that comes from forced giving might be part of the reason we have such resentment towards social programs as a whole here. There are lots of charities that still receive lots of funding and do really good work. I don't think you mean to discredit all of that with what you say at the end but it sounds like that is what you mean.
Fox news and other conservative media have jumped on that resentment and made billions and are perpetuating the cycle. Trust me, I don't get my news or opinions based on what they have to say...and as an aside, where the hell did you find libertarian radio?
That part in bold really shows how your view is shaped on all these topics. That is as much a conspiracy as Bush was behind 9/11. Do you have any proof that the university system was deliberately defunded because poor people were becoming too smart?
I think a better question to all of this is, what right do you have to my earnings? what percentage of my earnings is fair? I don't think people will ever agree. But wouldn't it be nice to have some say in it with something like a VAT tax. I mean, I could pay as much or as little as I wanted based on my consumer habits.
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
Why should someone's children and relatives get hard earned money when we need to build tanks?
Yet in the case of the Abrams tank, there's a bipartisan push to spend an extra $436 million on a weapon the experts explicitly say is not needed.
"If we had our choice, we would use that money in a different way," Gen. Ray Odierno, the Army's chief of staff, told The Associated Press this past week.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/28/abrams-tank-congress-army_n_3173717.html
I say screw all those fools that save their money in hopes of providing for their family in case of their untimely demise! We need tanks!
And, "fair" in this sense is subjective...which is why I lean more toward flat.
The 40% "death tax" rate makes for good sound bites but isn't based in reality. Yes, its on the books but no one pays 40% of the value of their estate to the feds when they die.
Peace.
Today, 99.86 percent of estates owe no estate
tax at all, according to the Urban-Brookings Tax
Policy Center (TPC).4 Among the 3,780 estates
that owe any tax, the “effective” tax rate — that is,
the percentage of the estate’s value that is paid in
taxes — is 16.6 percent, on average.5 That is far
below the top estate tax rate of 40 percent (see
Figure 1).
There are several reasons why the effective rate
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