Protests in Egypt-Morsi overthrown
peacefrompaul
Posts: 25,293
"Army delivers ultimatum to end Egypt crisis"
Interesting
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeas ... 25182.html
Interesting
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeas ... 25182.html
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My thoughts exactly.... I guess we'll find out soon
Maybe they should hire a Norwegian to run things for a while until they are up and on their feet.
"Egypt's ruling party says coup under way"
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeas ... 54875.html
So... how does this work?
Didn't this guy Morsi win the last election?
If so, what about the people who don't vote for winner of the next election?
Is anyone else concerned that the Army is the governmental body that has the final say in who runs the show?
Hail, Hail!!!
Hail, Hail!!!
Morsi was useless, and didn't fulfil his democratic mandate, so it's understandable that the people who gave him that mandate would want him to go. It's also understandable why the military would feel that it had the will of the people behind them to remove him. Democracy is not just about elections - there's a duty to do what you were elected to do.
Still, he was democratically elected, so I can fully understand why the Muslim Brotherhood and his other supporters would feel totally disenfranchised. The worrying implication is that the MB (not just in Egypt, either) would lose faith in democracy and the political process, would become marginalised as they were before 2011, and that would be very dangerous.
Somehow, I think it's crucial that the MB aren't outlawed, are still allowed to participate in the democratic project, but hard to imagine why they would willingly want to engage and cooperate with that project after this.
Seeing this level of people power in the defining of their own national identity is in one way great to see. But I'm afraid they're celebrating too soon. I think this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better, and I'm afraid there will be blood.
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
Can you imagine what the Egyptian Tea Party must be like?
Hail, Hail!!!
Your post before this one, yes...Morsi won. Heaven help those who go against those against him.
Last point, YES.
Scary shit - Army ain't government.
I'm curious to see exactly what the military's next move will be.
I totally agree with Wolf ( :wave:) - it's not going to be all plain sailing. The egyptian people were becoming disaffected as the economy was going to pots - no jobs, the fuel crisis only a week or so ago, etc. Miscontent... this isn't going to go away.
Edit: So... Morsi under arrest and 300 warrants issued for the ex-president's men.... Why?
Worrying. With Muslim Brotherhood members arrested, it sounds like the movement is being outlawed again. Bad move. Things were horrendous when it was outlawed before. Now, it's had a chance to try democracy and will understandably feel cheated out of the power they were legitimately elected into. If it is forced underground again – newly convinced that democracy doesn't work, or that the MB is not wanted as part of the democratic process – then the consequences could be a lot worse than before. And a lot harder to remedy.
Hi, R :wave:
96: Cork, Dublin
00: Dublin
06: London, Dublin
07: London, Copenhagen, Nijmegen
09: Manchester, London
10: Dublin, Belfast, London & Berlin
11: San José
12: Isle of Wight, Copenhagen, Ed in Manchester & London x2
http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 88000.html
ROBERT FISK
Thursday 4 July 2013
When is a military coup not a military coup? When it happens in Egypt, apparently
Those Western leaders who are telling us Egypt is still on the path to “democracy” have to remember that Morsi was indeed elected in a real, Western-approved election
For the first time in the history of the world, a coup is not a coup. The army take over, depose and imprison the democratically elected president, suspend the constitution, arrest the usual suspects, close down television stations and mass their armour in the streets of the capital. But the word ‘coup’ does not – and cannot – cross the lips of the Blessed Barack Obama. Nor does the hopeless UN secretary general Ban Ki-moon dare to utter such an offensive word. It’s not as if Obama doesn’t know what’s going on. Snipers in Cairo killed 15 Egyptians this week from a rooftop of the very university in which Obama made his ‘reach-out’ speech to the Muslim world in 2009.
Is this reticence because millions of Egyptians demanded just such a coup – they didn’t call it that, of course – and thus became the first massed people in the world to demand a coup prior to the actual coup taking place? Is it because Obama fears that to acknowledge it’s a coup would force the US to impose sanctions on the most important Arab nation at peace with Israel? Or because the men who staged the coup might forever lose their 1.5 billion subvention from the US – rather than suffer a mere delay -- if they were told they’d actually carried out a coup.
Now for the kind of historical memory that Obama would enjoy. In that dodgy 2009 speech in Cairo – in which he managed to refer to Palestinian “dislocation” rather than “dispossession” – Obama made the following remarkable comment, which puts the events in Egypt today into a rather interesting perspective. There were some leaders, he said, “who advocate for democracy only when they are out of power; once in power, they are ruthless in suppressing the rights of others…you must respect the rights of minorities, and participate with a spirit of tolerance and compromise; you must place the interests of your people and the legitimate workings of the political process above your party. Without these ingredients, elections alone do not make true democracy.”
Obama did not say this in the aftermath of the coup-that-wasn’t. He uttered these very words in Egypt itself just over four years ago. And it pretty much sums up what Mohamed Morsi did wrong. He treated his Muslim Brotherhood mates as masters rather than servants of the people, showed no interest in protecting Egypt’s Christian minority, and then enraged the Egyptian army by attending a Brotherhood meeting at which Egyptians were asked to join the holy war in Syria to kill Shiites and overthrow Bashar al-Assad’s regime.
And there is one salient fact about the events of the last 48 hours in Egypt. No one is happier – no one more satisfied nor more conscious of the correctness of his own national struggle against ‘Islamists’ and ‘terrorists’ -- than Assad. The West has been wetting itself to destroy Assad – but does absolutely nothing when the Egyptian army destroys its democratically-elected president for lining up with Assad’s armed Islamist opponents. The army called Morsi’s supporters “terrorists and fools”. Isn’t that just what Bashar calls his enemies? No wonder Assad told us yesterday that no one should use religion to gain power. Hollow laughter here -- offstage, of course.
But this doesn’t let Obama off the hook. Those Western leaders who are gently telling us that Egypt is still on the path to “democracy”, that this is an “interim” period – like the ‘interim’ Egyptian government concocted by the military – and that millions of Egyptians support the coup that isn’t a coup, have to remember that Morsi was indeed elected in a real, Western-approved election. Sure, he won only 51 per cent -- or 52 per cent -- of the vote.
But did George W. Bush really win his first presidential election? Morsi certainly won a greater share of the popular vote than David Cameron. We can say that Morsi lost his mandate when he no longer honoured his majority vote by serving the majority of Egyptians. But does that mean that European armies must take over their countries whenever European prime ministers fall below 50 per cent in their public opinion polls? And by the way, are the Muslim Brotherhood to be allowed to participate in the next Egyptian presidential elections? Or will they be banned? And if they participate, what will happen if their candidate wins again?
Israel, however, must be pleased. It knows a coup when it sees one – and it’s now back playing its familiar role as the only ‘democracy’ in the Middle East, and with the kind of neighbours it understands: military rulers. And if Egypt’s wealthy military king-makers are getting a nifty $1.5 billion dollars a year from Washington – albeit postponed -- they are certainly not going to tamper with their country’s peace treaty with Israel, however unpopular it remains with the people for whom it supposedly staged the coup-that-wasn’t. Stand by then for the first US delegation to visit the country which has suffered the coup-that-wasn’t. And you’ll know whether they believe there was a coup or not by the chaps they visit on their arrival in Cairo: the army, of course.
Such hollow words... From the resident.
http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2013/07/0 ... -on-egypt/
Yes, Morsi was elected in a Western approved election.
Yes, Morsi is backed by the Muslim Brotherhood.
Yes, The Muslim Brotherhood is a fundamentalist religious group with heavy political involvement.
Yes, Morsi set up a Constitution that was heavily influenced by his base.
Yes, secular Egyptians do not want to live under a theocratic rule.
Yes, the military did step in to prevent civil unrest from turning violent.
Yes, this is a Coup d'etat.
Yes, the U.S. and Western Nations do not support Military Coups (unless they come up with economic reasons to support them).
...
Now. what do you want?
Do you want the Muslim Brotherhood and Morsi re-instated because they won a free election that was endorsed and approved by the Western World?
Or, do you want their military to make the final call on who wins?
...
Personally... i don't think it is any of our (The United States) business. Democracy is difficult because there is never a 100% winner. There is always going to be dissent. We see this in our own country, right now. Would we be okay with our military uprooting President Obama, just because they don't like him? Should we have done that with former President Bush?
No. Because we live in a Democracy, whether we like it or not. sometimes, we win... sometimes we don't. but, we still (are supposed to) accept the will of our people and quit being cry babies about it.
That's Egypt's lesson to learn about Democracy. We may be able to express an opinion on their domestic situation... but, really... we are we to tell them what to do?
I say, give advise... stop foriegn aid to them. Let them decide how their nation is formed. It's not our job to build their nation. That one is on them.
Hail, Hail!!!
Anyway, am I the only person who finds it odd that when the dude from London opens his mouth to say that there needs to be an election soon in Egypt and it is to be open to everybody, including Morsi that it sounds pretty fucking stupid. The guy was elected and is now in prison, buy hey feel free to "ave anodder kick at da can, mate".
The poison from the poison stream caught up to you ELEVEN years ago and you floated out of here. Sept. 14, 08
Same shit we have here really. One side "wins" and fails to govern the whole. Instead plays to and for the base.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
It is called, 'Spending political capital'. Basically... You elect me into office... and I will pass legislation that favors you.
Egypt, Welcome to Democracy.
Hail, Hail!!!
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
The disturbing aspect of all of this is the military's involvement. If the civilian leadership has no control of the military, then the military can do as it pleases. That is the governmental body that gets the last word in who get to be the President... not the citizens.
Hail, Hail!!!
This will be interesting to watch , that's for sure. I also think that funding will continue.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
"We love americans but hate obama terrorism"
"05:05 GMT: 34 supporters killed and 500 injured after police disperse Cairo protests, Muslim Brotherhood told Al Jazeera."
http://rt.com/news/egypt-milllions-protest-morsi-458/