U.S & China - What's The Difference?
Byrnzie
Posts: 21,037
In one country the public are excluded from the political spectrum - there is little to no participatory inclusion. And anyone who upsets the apple cart is accused of 'subversion of State power' and sent to prison. And in the other country the public are excluded from the political spectrum - there is little to no participatory inclusion. And anyone who upsets the apple cart is accused of 'treason' and sent to prison - Bradley Manning.
In one country, internet access is monitored and restricted, and people's privacy is infringed upon. In the other country, the internet is monitored, and people's privacy is infringed upon.
Both countries have capital punishment and murder their own citizens.
One country has the largest prison population in the World, and in it's prisons 'there's widespread acceptance of the fact that jail [...] means rapes, beatings, vermin, filth and abuse.' - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... l-facility
The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners. In 2008 approximately one in every 31 adults (7.3 million) in the United States was behind bars, or being monitored (probation and parole). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarcera ... ted_States
The government of one country calls itself Communist, while the government of the other country calls itself a Democracy. In both countries, the people are subjected to daily propaganda by corporate and/or government sponsored, and controlled, media. In one country the same governmental party elects it's own members, while in the other country, the population are freee to choose between two corporate sponsored puppets every four years.
So what's the difference?
In one country, internet access is monitored and restricted, and people's privacy is infringed upon. In the other country, the internet is monitored, and people's privacy is infringed upon.
Both countries have capital punishment and murder their own citizens.
One country has the largest prison population in the World, and in it's prisons 'there's widespread acceptance of the fact that jail [...] means rapes, beatings, vermin, filth and abuse.' - http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... l-facility
The United States has less than 5 percent of the world's population. But it has almost a quarter of the world's prisoners. In 2008 approximately one in every 31 adults (7.3 million) in the United States was behind bars, or being monitored (probation and parole). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarcera ... ted_States
The government of one country calls itself Communist, while the government of the other country calls itself a Democracy. In both countries, the people are subjected to daily propaganda by corporate and/or government sponsored, and controlled, media. In one country the same governmental party elects it's own members, while in the other country, the population are freee to choose between two corporate sponsored puppets every four years.
So what's the difference?
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
In China people get to see the reality of what goes on their plates. They walk into a restaurant and often times the animal is killed in front of them before being prepared and served up. A naked lunch.
Whereas in the U.S, and other Western countries, the food comes prepackaged in shiny cling-film, and people rarely get to see the reality of what's served to them.
In China the people know they have no political power and that the mainstream media is simply bullshit.
In the U.S the people are told they are free and live in a Democracy and that they have a free and open press.
Some peoeple think it's best to look reality square in the face. Others think ignorance is bliss.
What do you think?
They produce tons of mostly worthless crap. We consume it.
and tons of good stuff.
you are probably typing on it now.
good stuff Byrnzie
Good stuff, oh, very possibly so. Hold on... (turns computer over)... "Made in China". Yes. (odd though, isn't it? Toshiba sounds like a Japanese name.)
Oh, but wait, I've only had this computer a year and a half and it almost crashed yesterday. No, I'm sorry, it's a piece of crap. The vast majority of manufactured goods are. How often do we hear the word "durable" applied to goods? Seldom. These things aren't supposed to last. They're made to break down. This computer could be made to last twenty years or more. It won't last more than four or five... if I'm lucky.
I'm not getting on any band stand here (remember, I'm the one who says that political boundaries are superficial, that bio-regions are much more true boundaries) so don't get too excited when I say this but U.S. made good generally are more durable. What few things are made her anyway.
And I'm not saying we're better than you. It's generally a world-wide human condition to be fucked up. And I'm not saying it's anyone's fault that China produces so much crap. We're the ones who are on that plastic needle after all. "Junk. Gimme some more junk! I gotta have it!" That's the way it is here.
And while I'm on the subject, I want to acknowledge the many super poor and abused slave children in your country: Kids, I make things last as long as I can. I buy used goods as often as I can and have learned to live with less. I pray that someday you will be unshackled from the mats to which you are chained everyday. I acknowledge my gross overindulgence in this western world. I am so lucky to be able to afford to sit here in comfort and spew my bullshit. I am a hypocrite.
Aren't Apple products manufactured in China? Aren't they suppoosed to be the best quality P.C products out there?
Most computer products really.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I'm not going to defend much of what you say, but I think- given that you have jumped to the extreme with this particular statement- I'd like to comment on it.
If it is par to call a country sentencing a citizen to death for the horrific crimes they have committed murder, then it is par to call citizens who rape and murder a 6 month old baby (Steve Smith) bags of shit.
A country really cannot be blamed for removing bags of shit from the general population given how offensive they are to the senses can they?
what the frig?
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
WE have FREEEEEEEDOOOOOMMMMMM!!!!
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
edit...
so i went looking around
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegal_dr ... c_of_China
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
from 420 magazine: china - marijuana laws
so if you are an addict that is one thing but if you are a dealer you are up a fucking creek! the united nations have a day they call "united nations' international day against drug abuse and illicit trafficking sunday" so what does china do? they execute people in prison for smuggling a wide variety of drugs.
5 kilos of grass resins gets you chance at being executed, one kilo of heroin = possible execution, and less than two ounces of cocaine could spell death
the united nations urge them to end the executions of drug smugglers but china pays the un's plea no attention
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
yes, it is ALWAYS par to call someone who does that a bag of shit, whether calling state-sanctioned death "murder" or not has nothing to do with that.
the fact remains that both countries murder their own citizens by taking away their right to life.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
We can all agree that both countries utilize the death penalty when deemed appropriate as a form of punishment. I think we should be careful on how we 'frame' this fact... or the original argument twists into another- whether or not the death penalty is appropriate. I don't think this was an end run to get into the death penalty discussion in another thread, but by denouncing one side's view in such fashion (calling the consequence 'murder' when some see it as 'justice'), it's hard not to stir some form of response taking exception.
Murdering citizens , at a minimum, tends to disregard the fact that the countries in question are executing their violent criminals when forced to respond to their violent and (most often) disgusting crimes.
I think it is more accurate to say that both countries execute their 'violent killers' instead of citizens. Let's not minimize what led these 'unique' citizens to their fates.
thank you
is a violent criminal not a citizen? so how is it wrong to say "murdering their citizens"? that is what is happening. execution and murder are the same to some, just like execution and justice are the same to you. so we'll call it how we see it, thank you.
also, how do you spin it when one of them is not guilty of any crime? executing their "wrong place or wrong time degenerates"?
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The only thing being spun is a country's approved method of punishment being called murder. My point, which you missed is that the original point of the thread gets sidetracked when argumentative statements are made that detract from the issue at hand.
If you wish to resume the death penalty topic, we should do so over in that thread. If the point is to compare the two countries, saying they both employ the death penalty will suffice.
http://qz.com/90764/what-happened-to-ta ... protester/
"Speculation continues to circulate about Tank Man’s fate. Thousands of Chinese nationals were detained and imprisoned for their involvement in the protests, some of them kept in jail for almost their entire lives. Others were executed. No one has been able to determine whether Tank Man was among them."
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
since you've deemed yourself moderator, let me sum up for you: the OP made the original "murder" statement, which you responded to, which I then responded to. if you didn't want the "thread derailed", maybe don't comment on statements you deem derailing the integrity of the thread in the first place, then. "derailing comments" made by the OP, I might add. not sure how that happens, but hey, I'll just go with it.
oh, and keep telling me I'm missing the point. seems to be your go-to statement. and it never gets old.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Godfather.
Is it annoying as your blatant sensitivity? When you do keep missing it... what should a guy say?
Whether by intent or not... the thread was multi-pronged from its inception. There are a few things we can assume regarding the intent of the thread, but hardly a word has been contributed in response to the initial supposition because... perhaps more confrontational was the statement made about calling the death penalty 'murder'.
If I started a thread comparing the US to Canada... and in a list of items supporting my claim said, "Canada and the majority of the US are weak little softies on crime that care more for the rights of murderers than those of the murdered"... would I be soliciting more comments comparing the two countries or would I be inviting comments from those opposed to the death penalty?
But, ultimately, you are correct- I didn't let the murder its citizens go unchallenged and may have overstepped my boundaries- playing moderator. Apologies to Byrnzie if this is so.
As I expressed... if we all need another go around... let's go to the Death Penalty thread and have it out. We can start with how people could possibly be in their right mind thinking that executing Steve Smith was murder instead of justice. Remember he was the guy who raped his girlfriend's 6 month old daughter- killing her in the process?
I mean, at a minimum, look at the relief it provided the survivors: After the execution, Autumn's aunt, Kaylee Bashline, pumped her fists in the air as if in victory and gave a hug to Autumn's mother, Kesha Frye.
Source: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... worst.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordi ... k_sites.22
"Black sites"
In 2005, The Washington Post and Human Rights Watch (HRW) published revelations concerning CIA flights and "black sites", covert prisons that are operated by the CIA and whose existence is denied by the US government. The European Parliament published a report in February 2007 concerning the use of such secret detention centers and extraordinary rendition (See below). Such detention centers violate the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR) and the UN Convention Against Torture, treaties that all EU member states are bound to follow.
According to ABC News two such facilities, in countries mentioned by Human Rights Watch, have been closed following the recent publicity. CIA officers say the captives were relocated to the North African desert. All but one of these 11 high-value al Qaeda prisoners were subjected to the harshest interrogation techniques in the CIA's secret arsenal, sometimes referred to as "enhanced interrogation techniques" authorized for use by about 14 CIA officers.
Prison ships
The United States has also been accused of operating "floating prisons" to house and transport those arrested in its highly controversial War on Terror, according to human rights lawyers. They have claimed that the US has tried to conceal the numbers and whereabouts of detainees
1) This does not rebut my point.
2) By posting this are you saying that street protestors in China are considered terrorists? That also does not happen in the US. How many members of OWS or the Tea Party have been locked up in these secret prisons? None.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
It is an interesting essay Byrnzie, lots of food for thought. However, I would say that your points about exclusion from the political spectrum are not completely accurate. in one we have a gov't that literally doesn't let people participate, in the other we have a population that stays willingly uninterested and uneducated. they aren't excluded from participation by the gov't, they willingly exclude themselves.
I think both countries gov'ts have serious problems that need to be dealt with by the people of those countries.
I have often argued that a voting system where people vote for who they think can win, they vote for a party rather than for a candidate, they convince themselves there are only two legitimate choices is not all that different from a system where they don't vote at all...is two choices that much better than one/none?
If we go full nanny state here, I vote for making the using the statement "lesser of two evils" in regards to voting a punishable crime.
I don't think the US citizenry gets thrown in jail with the frequency of political dissenters in China. But there are certainly similarities.
This thread could get interesting, hopefully people can keep it on topic and not veer off into personal territories...
It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
- Joe Rogan
just because I either:
1) don't address a specific aspect of your post, and/or
2) don't agree with it,
does not automatically mean I missed your point. It's a condescending phrase that just excuses the poster from holding themselves responsible for not articulating themselves clearly enough.
Not sure where you get that I am "blatantly sensitive". But if that's how you see it, so be it.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/22/opini ... .html?_r=0
Whatever I did to make you feel that I am an ass, I apologize for. I sincerely mean that.
As mike said, let's leave this thread to its own merit.
I like Ma Jian - have read a couple of his books.
As for the one child policy, I agree with it, as there are too many people in China. Although of course I'm opposed to any brutal enforcing of it that results in forced sterilizations and/or abortions.
What does need to change is the aspect of Chinese culture that stipulates that every girl must have a baby by the time she's 26 or 27 years old. And any girl who hasn't had a baby by the time she's 29 or 30 is regarded as an outcast, a leftover, and/or a freak. I witness the pressure to get married and have babies all the time. The peer pressure here is enormous, to the point that I've watched females friends of mine state that they will find a boyfriend "this year" and get married "this year". I.e, they will marry the first boy who comes along so as to appease their friends and family.
Even gays and lesbians are forced into conforming, so as to please their parents and their bosses at work. 12 Million gay men are now married to straight women in order to simply please their peers:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ap ... -seek-wife
'According to the tenets of traditional society, the worst kind of unfilial behaviour is failing to continue the family line. Even now, the pressure to marry and have children is intense. Zhang Beichuan, an expert on homosexuality at Qingdao University, believes about 80% of gay men and lesbians marry. Most wed straight partners unaware of their spouses' sexuality.
...Thanks to such pressures, as many as 12m gay men are married to straight women, estimates Xing Fei, of the Sichuan Academy of Social Sciences.'
Maybe if this bullshit was ended, then there would be no need for the one-child policy.