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Daughter

Big Bank HankBig Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
edited May 2013 in The Porch
what is the meaning of the song, after reading all these interpretations from the website below, I am now more thoroughly confused about the meaning than before, I know the song was originally entitled Brother and you can watch the video of that below, what is everyone else's take

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFThlqz3Spg&feature=youtu.be

http://www.lyricinterpretations.com/Pearl-Jam/Daughter
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • JB128716JB128716 Posts: 2,064
    Always thought it was about child abuse, but that's my own interpretation.
    92 - Orlando
    03 - Tampa
    08 - Tampa
    12 - DeLuna Fest, EV Orlando 1 & 2, EV Ft Lauderdale 1 & 2
    13 - Wrigley!!! ,Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford, OKC, Seattle
    14 - Leeds, Milton Keynes, St Louis
    16 - Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Wrigley 1 & 2
  • Big Bank HankBig Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    JB128716 wrote:
    Always thought it was about child abuse, but that's my own interpretation.
    me too but as I read those other interpretations, and then reading the lyrics, and especially since the song was originally titled Brother with basically the same lyrics, that is almost certainly incorrect
  • JB128716JB128716 Posts: 2,064
    Could be about incest. Still child abuse.
    92 - Orlando
    03 - Tampa
    08 - Tampa
    12 - DeLuna Fest, EV Orlando 1 & 2, EV Ft Lauderdale 1 & 2
    13 - Wrigley!!! ,Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford, OKC, Seattle
    14 - Leeds, Milton Keynes, St Louis
    16 - Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Wrigley 1 & 2
  • Big Bank HankBig Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    JB128716 wrote:
    Could be about incest. Still child abuse.
    yeah but reading those other explanations, they seem much more plausible, I am thinking I have been wrong this whole time, because I thought like you, but I am seriously doubting that now
  • JB128716JB128716 Posts: 2,064
    edited May 2013
    Maybe Ed was just making up words at the time that sounded good rhythmically but when he went back he changed the lyrics to tell more of a story (not sure if it's true or not).

    I will still believe it's about a dad (or step dad) that rapes the child. Lyrics like
    The Shades go Down...
    Painted Room can't deny there's something is wrong
    She holds the hand that holds her down she will rise above.

    That's what I imagine (even though it's very depressing) and amazes me sometimes that some of the most depressing songs are the ones people sing the loudest in celebration. Like Alive. But like Ed said, maybe it breaks the curse of the song.
    92 - Orlando
    03 - Tampa
    08 - Tampa
    12 - DeLuna Fest, EV Orlando 1 & 2, EV Ft Lauderdale 1 & 2
    13 - Wrigley!!! ,Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford, OKC, Seattle
    14 - Leeds, Milton Keynes, St Louis
    16 - Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Wrigley 1 & 2
  • veddertownveddertown Scotland Posts: 5,260
    Big Bank Hank wrote:
    JB128716 wrote:
    Always thought it was about child abuse, but that's my own interpretation.
    me too but as I read those other interpretations, and then reading the lyrics, and especially since the song was originally titled Brother with basically the same lyrics, that is almost certainly incorrect
    Perhaps the lyrics and meaning of the song changed when the title did? I certainly get a sense of it being at least about abuse of trust if not sexual abuse. Love the song and really enjoy the live tags.
    Like a book among the many on a shelf...

    Dublin 02 Arena - 22/6/10. Belfast Odyssey Arena - 23/6/10. London Hyde Park - 25/6/10. Berlin Wuhlheide - 30/6/10.
    Manchester MEN - 20/06/12. Manchester MEN - 21/06/12
  • JB128716JB128716 Posts: 2,064
    I just read the interpretations on that site and I think they are wrong. LOL

    Like the line
    Kitchen table in an otherwise empty room. Someone interpreted this as they just moved in. I would interpret this as is a house without love.

    They just moved in is a very simplistic interpretation.
    92 - Orlando
    03 - Tampa
    08 - Tampa
    12 - DeLuna Fest, EV Orlando 1 & 2, EV Ft Lauderdale 1 & 2
    13 - Wrigley!!! ,Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford, OKC, Seattle
    14 - Leeds, Milton Keynes, St Louis
    16 - Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Wrigley 1 & 2
  • Big Bank HankBig Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    edited May 2013
    You guys ready...
    Alone...listless...breakfast table in an otherwise empty room
    Young girl...violins...center of her own attention
    Mother reads aloud, child tries to understand it
    Tries to make her proud
    The shades go down, it's in her head
    Painted room...can't deny there's something wrong...
    Don't call me daughter, not fit to
    The picture kept will remind me
    Don't call me daughter, not fit to
    The picture kept will remind me
    Don't call me...
    She holds the hand that holds her down
    She will...rise above...
    Don't call me daughter, not fit to
    The picture kept will remind me
    Don't call me daughter, not fit to be
    The picture kept will remind me
    Don't call me...
    Don't call me daughter, not fit to
    The picture kept will remind me
    Don't call me daughter, not fit to be
    The picture kept will remind me
    Don't call me...
    The shades go down
    The shades go down
    The shades go, go, go...

    this would dovetail with Why Go I am starting to think it is about a girl who going to be put in an institution, Brother/Daughter was written before Why Go

    She scratches a letter
    Into a wall made of stone
    Maybe someday
    Another child
    Won't feel as alone as she does

    It's been two years
    And counting
    Since they put her in this place
    She's been diagnosed
    By some stupid fuck
    And mommy agrees
    Why go home?
    Why go home?
    Why go home...

    She seems to be stronger
    But what they want her to be is weak
    She could just pretend
    She could join the game
    She could be another clone

    Why go home?

    What you taught me
    Put me here
    Don't come visit
    Mommy dear

    and then if we add Rearviewmirror on to that it does seem like one long story, after getting out of the institution and not having to deal with the parental control/abuse anymore

    I took a drive today
    Time to emancipate
    I guess it was the beatings... made me wise
    But I'm not about to give thanks, or apologize
    I couldn't breathe, holdin' me down
    Hand on my face, pushed to the ground
    Enmity gauged, united by fear
    Forced to endure what I could not forgive...

    I seem to look away
    Wounds in the mirror waved
    It wasn't my surface... most defiled
    Head at your feet, fool to your crown
    Fist on my plate, swallowed it down
    Enmity gauged, united by fear
    Tried to endure what I could not forgive

    Saw things
    Saw things
    Saw things
    Saw things
    Clearer
    Clearer
    Once you, were in my...
    Rearviewmirror...

    I gather speed from you fucking with me
    Once and for all I'm far away
    I hardly believe, finally the shades...are raised...

    Saw things so much clearer
    (Once you, once you)
    Rearviewmirror...
    Post edited by Big Bank Hank on
  • JB128716JB128716 Posts: 2,064
    This line:

    Mother reads aloud, child tries to understand it
    Tries to make her proud

    In the remastered version I think Ed says Father reads aloud. So if you read it this way:

    Father reads aloud, child tries to understand it
    Tries to make her proud.

    You could interpret it as the Father is trying to make the daughter proud by reading the bible. And the child is having a hard time understanding it because the father is so evil.
    92 - Orlando
    03 - Tampa
    08 - Tampa
    12 - DeLuna Fest, EV Orlando 1 & 2, EV Ft Lauderdale 1 & 2
    13 - Wrigley!!! ,Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford, OKC, Seattle
    14 - Leeds, Milton Keynes, St Louis
    16 - Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Wrigley 1 & 2
  • mookieblalockmookieblalock Posts: 3,439
    Daughter is about a young girl with a reading disability who gets beaten because she is not working hard enough to read....she is not worthy of her parents love because she can't make them proud.
  • Big Bank HankBig Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    mookieblalock wrote:
    Daughter is about a young girl with a reading disability who gets beaten because she is not working hard enough to read....she is not worthy of her parents love because she can't make them proud.
    well that could still be a prequel to Why Go, before she gets institutionalized, because it was written before Why Go, even though they released it on Vs
  • mookieblalockmookieblalock Posts: 3,439
    I am pretty sure reviewmirror is the sequel to daughter...."finally the shades are raised."
  • Big Bank HankBig Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    mookieblalock wrote:
    I am pretty sure reviewmirror is the sequel to daughter...."finally the shades are raised."
    or it could be a 3 part trilogy Daughter-Why Go-Rearviewmirror
  • JB128716JB128716 Posts: 2,064
    One thing I will say is that Ed references other PJ songs all the time and I find that fascinating.
    92 - Orlando
    03 - Tampa
    08 - Tampa
    12 - DeLuna Fest, EV Orlando 1 & 2, EV Ft Lauderdale 1 & 2
    13 - Wrigley!!! ,Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford, OKC, Seattle
    14 - Leeds, Milton Keynes, St Louis
    16 - Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Wrigley 1 & 2
  • JB128716JB128716 Posts: 2,064
    And I like it better if I never know what it's about because coming up with your own ideas is half the fun. The other half is trying to figure out what the words are.

    Did you see at the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame where Don Henley thought the song Short People was a song about racism or something like that and Randy Newman said, "No, the song is about short people."

    LOL
    92 - Orlando
    03 - Tampa
    08 - Tampa
    12 - DeLuna Fest, EV Orlando 1 & 2, EV Ft Lauderdale 1 & 2
    13 - Wrigley!!! ,Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford, OKC, Seattle
    14 - Leeds, Milton Keynes, St Louis
    16 - Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Wrigley 1 & 2
  • mookieblalockmookieblalock Posts: 3,439
    Big Bank Hank wrote:
    mookieblalock wrote:
    I am pretty sure reviewmirror is the sequel to daughter...."finally the shades are raised."
    or it could be a 3 part trilogy Daughter-Why Go-Rearviewmirror

    Personally, I think Why Go is completely separate. I see it as about Mental Illness, which is distinct from a Learning Disability.
  • Big Bank HankBig Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    mookieblalock wrote:
    Big Bank Hank wrote:
    mookieblalock wrote:
    I am pretty sure reviewmirror is the sequel to daughter...."finally the shades are raised."
    or it could be a 3 part trilogy Daughter-Why Go-Rearviewmirror

    Personally, I think Why Go is completely separate. I see it as about Mental Illness, which is distinct from a Learning Disability.
    I disagree because it clearly states "she's been diagnosed by some stupid fuck" which would indicate misdiagnosed as mental illness when it was a learning disability and also goes on to mention that her mother agrees
  • Pjzepp67Pjzepp67 Posts: 445
    I always thought it was about the ebb and flow in a mother daughter relationship considering Ed was always known for being able to write from someone else's perspective, be it male or female, young or old. Don't really see the darkness in the song, only the strained emotions of a tight relationship... :corn:
  • mookieblalockmookieblalock Posts: 3,439
    Vocalist Eddie Vedder about "Daughter":


    The child in that song obviously has a learning difficulty. And it's only in the last few years that they've actually been able to diagnose these learning disabilities that before were looked at as misbehavior, as just outright rebelliousness. But no one knew what it was. And these kids, because they seemed unable or reluctant to learn, they'd end up getting the shit beaten outta them. The song ends, you know, with this idea of the shades going down—so that the neighbors can't see what happens next. What hurts about shit like that is that it ends up defining peoples' lives. They have to live with that abuse for the rest of their lives. Good, creative people are just fucking destroyed.[4]
  • Big Bank HankBig Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    mookieblalock wrote:
    Vocalist Eddie Vedder about "Daughter":


    The child in that song obviously has a learning difficulty. And it's only in the last few years that they've actually been able to diagnose these learning disabilities that before were looked at as misbehavior, as just outright rebelliousness. But no one knew what it was. And these kids, because they seemed unable or reluctant to learn, they'd end up getting the shit beaten outta them. The song ends, you know, with this idea of the shades going down—so that the neighbors can't see what happens next. What hurts about shit like that is that it ends up defining peoples' lives. They have to live with that abuse for the rest of their lives. Good, creative people are just fucking destroyed.[4]
    and this would still fit with Why Go, especially with the part that mommy agrees with the stupid fuck who diagnosed her, and wouldn't he only be referred to as a stupid fuck if it were a misdiagnosis?
  • JB128716JB128716 Posts: 2,064
    Damn this thread. I always thought of Why Go as a song for concert goers to ask themselves why they should go home since they are at a PJ show.

    I only listened to the chorus. LOL
    92 - Orlando
    03 - Tampa
    08 - Tampa
    12 - DeLuna Fest, EV Orlando 1 & 2, EV Ft Lauderdale 1 & 2
    13 - Wrigley!!! ,Brooklyn 1 & 2, Hartford, OKC, Seattle
    14 - Leeds, Milton Keynes, St Louis
    16 - Ft Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Wrigley 1 & 2
  • mookieblalockmookieblalock Posts: 3,439
    Big Bank Hank wrote:
    and this would still fit with Why Go, especially with the part that mommy agrees with the stupid fuck who diagnosed her, and wouldn't he only be referred to as a stupid fuck if it were a misdiagnosis?

    Not sure. Was only answering the original thread question.
  • papa_pearls_jam.pj20papa_pearls_jam.pj20 Chicago USA Posts: 2,142
    My interpretation is the song is about a girl (daughter) and her life, living with her mother and stepfather. It resembles an abusive tone, but could be just something where she feels trapped and isolated. Alone, with the bare essentials of what she's been afforded to exist. The shades never opening to allow what's outside to be seen or see what's inside. The daughter bears the life she's living, but denies the relationship with the new "father", whom she resents, especially when he refers to her as his "daughter". The picture kept close to her heart and, most likely, hidden away in a secret place, is of her real father, the only one she will ever accept.
    Posimists. Fuck the pessimists...fuck'em.
  • Big Bank HankBig Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    mookieblalock wrote:
    Big Bank Hank wrote:
    and this would still fit with Why Go, especially with the part that mommy agrees with the stupid fuck who diagnosed her, and wouldn't he only be referred to as a stupid fuck if it were a misdiagnosis?

    Not sure. Was only answering the original thread question.
    yeah and I think you nailed it just interesting that chronologically Brother/Daughter was written first then Why Go and then Rearviewmirror and all probably in less than a one year period, and if it is all part of the same story, I would put that poetic work up against any poet or storyteller, Eddie Vedder is the shit!
  • mookieblalockmookieblalock Posts: 3,439
    Big Bank Hank wrote:
    mookieblalock wrote:
    Big Bank Hank wrote:
    and this would still fit with Why Go, especially with the part that mommy agrees with the stupid fuck who diagnosed her, and wouldn't he only be referred to as a stupid fuck if it were a misdiagnosis?

    Not sure. Was only answering the original thread question.
    yeah and I think you nailed it just interesting that chronologically Brother/Daughter was written first then Why Go and then Rearviewmirror and all probably in less than a one year period, and if it is all part of the same story, I would put that poetic work up against any poet or storyteller, Eddie Vedder is the shit!

    I can't remember the reference, specifically, but I am pretty sure EV has referenced Rearview being a follow up to daughter and refers to the line "finally the shades are raised" in the last verse.
  • Big Bank HankBig Bank Hank Seattle, WA Posts: 8,639
    not sure, but not everything Eddie has said in interviews is true, like the reason behind the name Pearl Jam, people to this day still believe the magic mushroom jam story :lol:
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