War Powers - "rewriting the Constitution"

the wolf

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/1 ... ly%20Brief


"This is the most astounding and most astoundingly disturbing hearing that I've been to since I've been here. You guys have essentially rewritten the Constitution today," Sen. Angus King (I-Maine) told four senior U.S. military officials who testified about the 2001 Authorization to Use Military Force and what it allows the White House to do.

JimmyV

Honestly surprised this thread didn't take off. I think with Obama's speech on the issue of terrorism coming it might.

As to the issue, it seems pretty clear this statute can and should be updated.

mikepegg44

JimmyV wrote:

Honestly surprised this thread didn't take off. I think with Obama's speech on the issue of terrorism coming it might.

As to the issue, it seems pretty clear this statute can and should be updated.

I really hope President Obama's speech contains the preview stuff I read about. It is late in coming, but the changes to who controls the drones and Gitmo will be a step in the right direction.

puremagic

Congress gave those powers not only to Bush/Cheney administration, they gave those powers to the Office of the President, no matter who the President. President Obama is using the tools Congress gave him. The military is using the tools Congress gave them. NSA, CIA and the FBI, are using the tools Congress gave them.

Congress failed to understand that ‘a war on terror’ is a war on an ‘ideology’ there is always going to a ‘terrorist’, thus, you have a never ending war – which allows the military to utilizes their ‘war powers’ at their discretion.

The fact that technology has become more sophisticated in how the tools are applied, does not negate the authority to use the tool.

mikepegg44

puremagic wrote:

Congress gave those powers not only to Bush/Cheney administration, they gave those powers to the Office of the President, no matter who the President. President Obama is using the tools Congress gave him. The military is using the tools Congress gave them. NSA, CIA and the FBI, are using the tools Congress gave them.

Congress failed to understand that ‘a war on terror’ is a war on an ‘ideology’ there is always going to a ‘terrorist’, thus, you have a never ending war – which allows the military to utilizes their ‘war powers’ at their discretion.

The fact that technology has become more sophisticated in how the tools are applied, does not negate the authority to use the tool.

I don't believe the Senator from Maine was in congress when it was passed, so I am sure he did learn a lot that day, which is probably why he said what he did.
Like any other too broad a law it has been used to justify actions since its passing that was not the intent of the law...like the commerce clause being used to justify the Federal gov't how much wheat a farmer could produce for HIS OWN CONSUMPTION (Wickard v. Filburn)

the wolf

I wonder what all the self appointed "protectors of the constitution" think of him saying that?

I remember having a huge blow up fight with the, now ex-father in law about this back then.

I specifically remember saying "this might seem like a good idea now, but just wait 15, 20 or even 30 years from now".

This, in and of itself, is okay in the right hands. But it will only take one crack pot in office to turn this
really, REALLY bad for all of us.

I mean really, don't this give the President and the top Generals way to much power?
Isn't this what our Pro-Gun friends here on the board stockpile ammo for?

It just seems to me, that a military state has been set up for years now, and it's just waiting for the
the right (read WRONG) person to put things into play.

Scary shit when you decide to think like a conspiracy type.

puremagic

mikepegg44 wrote:

puremagic wrote:

Congress gave those powers not only to Bush/Cheney administration, they gave those powers to the Office of the President, no matter who the President. President Obama is using the tools Congress gave him. The military is using the tools Congress gave them. NSA, CIA and the FBI, are using the tools Congress gave them.

Congress failed to understand that ‘a war on terror’ is a war on an ‘ideology’ there is always going to a ‘terrorist’, thus, you have a never ending war – which allows the military to utilizes their ‘war powers’ at their discretion.

The fact that technology has become more sophisticated in how the tools are applied, does not negate the authority to use the tool.

I don't believe the Senator from Maine was in congress when it was passed, so I am sure he did learn a lot that day, which is probably why he said what he did.
Like any other too broad a law it has been used to justify actions since its passing that was not the intent of the law...like the commerce clause being used to justify the Federal gov't how much wheat a farmer could produce for HIS OWN CONSUMPTION (Wickard v. Filburn)

http://usgovinfo.about.com/library/week ... shouse.htm [just a reminder]
the complete text of the House Joint Resolution authorizing the President of the United States to use U.S. Armed Forces against Iraq. October 2, 2002.

This resolution includes the authorization for the military to use its war powers against ‘terrorists’ and ‘international terrorists’. Congress in its zealous to go after Iraq gave the military the authority to pursue a never-ending global war against terrorism. The Patriot Act pushed aside the Constitution. The Telecommunication Act provided the needed means of controlling the mass.

Granted he wasn’t in Congress, but think back. When the ACLU questioned the habeas corpus issue on both the Patriot Act and the Telecommunications Act saying they impeded on the Constitution, they were dismissed as crying wolf. Even we the people, including the now Senator from Maine relied on the whole support the troops – I’m not a terrorist or Arab, so these Bills won’t impact me. We now see the wolf was not only real, but, it ran in a pack; and, now we are part of the herd being watched and targeted.

Congress's hands are tied unless they are willing to say that the Unitied States is declaring an end to its war on terrorism - thus, admitting defeat. It's not going to happen so we are in it for 10 or 20 more years like the military stated.