Interesting that so many people here are calling for him to be murdered by the state.
Maybe this is why the U.S will always be riddled with violence. Violence breeds violence.
As for any good that the death penalty does - it does no good whatsoever. It's just state-sanctioned revenge killing that serves no long-term purpose at all.
This was a horrific act, but no need to abandon our laws/constitution/principles. That's one of the goals of a "terror" attack and we fall for it every time.
Interesting that so many people here are calling for him to be murdered by the state.
Maybe this is why the U.S will always be riddled with violence. Violence breeds violence.
As for any good that the death penalty does - it does no good whatsoever. It's just state-sanctioned revenge killing that serves no long-term purpose at all.
Anyway, carry on with your blood lust.
It serve a long term purpose. The bottom line is that by executing him, it saves the American tax payers from providing this guys health care, housing, and food for the next 40-70 year's.
He's a citizen and deserves all the rights granted to him by the constitution.
They become citizens to work the system. like the Times Square terrorist of Bridgeport, Connecticut, who had become a U.S. citizen in April 2009
....because they know about PC and know how to work it....now we will spent millions on a trials for them.... time we freeze student visas....and close the boarders....the good people can stay....and no PC should be involved when figuring out who the good people are....just command sense
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
He's a citizen and deserves all the rights granted to him by the constitution.
They become citizens to work the system. like the Times Square terrorist of Bridgeport, Connecticut, who had become a U.S. citizen in April 2009
....because they know about PC and know how to work it....now we will spent millions on a trials for them.... time we freeze student visas....and close the boarders....the good people can stay....and no PC should be involved when figuring out who the good people are....just command sense
are those that neglected and worked the system in west texas "good people"? west fertilizer management?
We know that the EPA, back in 2006, cited West Fertilizer for not having an emergency risk management plan.
Indeed, it has been reported that the company had assured the EPA, in response to the complaint, that there was “no risk” of an explosion at the plant!
An AP article reports that the company, five years after being cited for lacking a risk plan, did file one with the EPA, but that the report claimed the company “…was not handling flammable materials and did not have sprinklers, water-deluge systems, blast walls, fire walls or other safety mechanisms in place at the plant.”
“Records reviewed by The Associated Press show the U.S. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration fined West Fertilizer $10,000 last summer for safety violations that included planning to transport anhydrous ammonia without a security plan. An inspector also found the plant’s ammonia tanks weren’t properly labeled.”
Then the article gets to the crux of the problem, saying:
“The government accepted $5,250 after the company took what it described as corrective actions, the records show. It is not unusual for companies to negotiate lower fines with regulators.”
Aside from the ridiculousness of West Fertilizer management’s reported assertion that the plant wasn’t handling flammable materials (a claim that the current deadly catastrophe has demonstrably proved was false), consider the incredible response of the EPA to this incredible assertion: The agency, emasculated by the Bush administration, and still a joke under the Obama administration, levied a pathetically small fine, but did nothing to shut the operation down until it put in place critical safety measures.
The other agency that could have acted, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), is even more of a paper tiger than the EPA. Despite their inherent risks and hazards, it is reported that OSHA has made only six investigations of fertilizer plant operators in Texas in the last six years. West Fertilizer was not one of them. In six years, it has not been visited by OSHA inspectors!
Interesting that so many people here are calling for him to be murdered by the state.
Maybe this is why the U.S will always be riddled with violence. Violence breeds violence.
As for any good that the death penalty does - it does no good whatsoever. It's just state-sanctioned revenge killing that serves no long-term purpose at all.
Anyway, carry on with your blood lust.
It serve a long term purpose. The bottom line is that by executing him, it saves the American tax payers from providing this guys health care, housing, and food for the next 40-70 year's.
It costs more to execute someone than to keep them alive. Check the death penalty thread if you need proof of this.
It serve a long term purpose. The bottom line is that by executing him, it saves the American tax payers from providing this guys health care, housing, and food for the next 40-70 year's.
this is absolutely untrue. look at the death penalty thread. there is a vast number of research links posted that prove time and time again that life in prison costs less than a death sentence, appeals, and the cost of the execution.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
this guy is a citizen. he has rights that are inalienable, correct??
funny how people on here cling to the bill of rights when it comes to amendment number 2, but when it comes to 5th and 6th they would just as soon throw those out.
i would think that it would be more important to make sure that the guy's rights are not violated and that he gets the same due process as i get. if he doesn't, we might as well throw out the entire fucking bill of rights and let the government have its way with all of us.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,079
this guy is a citizen. he has rights that are inalienable, correct??
funny how people on here cling to the bill of rights when it comes to amendment number 2, but when it comes to 5th and 6th they would just as soon throw those out.
i would think that it would be more important to make sure that the guy's rights are not violated and that he gets the same due process as i get. if he doesn't, we might as well throw out the entire fucking bill of rights and let the government have its way with all of us.
I was thinking the enlarged words above before I even got to them, gimme. Absolutely true!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
The bottom line is that by executing him, it saves the American tax payers from providing this guys health care, housing, and food for the next 40-70 year's.
The death penalty saves money. It costs less to kill people than to imprison them for life.
FACT
The death penalty costs millions more than a sentence of life without parole. Taxpayers' money could be used more efficiently on crime prevention programs and police.
Death penalty trials require a lot more work. The appeals process is longer and more expensive.
- In Kansas, death penalty trials cost 16 times more, and appeals 21 times more, than in non-death penalty cases.
- In California, the annual cost of the present death penalty system is currently $137 million USD. It would cost 70% more ($232m) if critical reforms - to ensure fair trials and eliminate wrongful convictions - were put in place. By contrast, a system of life without parole would cost $11.5m.
"People will say we can't put a price on justice, but in fact, we do put a price on justice when we are not able to give our district attorneys, our police departments, our attorney general the funding they need." - Democratic Rep. Gail Chasey
Some counties have been pushed to the brink of bankruptcy, repeatedly increasing taxes to fund extremely expensive capital cases.
A lot of the money fed into the death penalty system could be used for programmes aimed at reducing crime in the first place.
Prisoners' time could be used meaningfully in prevention or education programmes, even from prison.
"My heart goes out to troublesome youngsters because I 'see' myself in them. And it is my heart to do it. I can explain my heart’s desire to help youngsters understand how wrong decisions can lead them down a path that can lead to prison. I could influence and encourage them to make better choices and strive to further their education. I could use my past mistakes as examples. I could inspire them to believe in themselves and pursue legitimate careers. I could do it, if given the opportunity, because I know how to relate to troublesome youngsters: I’ve been there. Perhaps I could persuade the adults presiding over organizations created to help youngsters or juvenile correctional facilities out there to give me a chance to work or speak with these kids (…). Once they see how the kids respond to me, they [the adults] will be impressed… " - A Mungin, from death row in Florida. Mungin is involved in an educational program with the Victoria’s Academy.
The bottom line is that by executing him, it saves the American tax payers from providing this guys health care, housing, and food for the next 40-70 year's.
The death penalty saves money. It costs less to kill people than to imprison them for life.
FACT
The death penalty costs millions more than a sentence of life without parole. Taxpayers' money could be used more efficiently on crime prevention programs and police.
Death penalty trials require a lot more work. The appeals process is longer and more expensive.
- In Kansas, death penalty trials cost 16 times more, and appeals 21 times more, than in non-death penalty cases.
- In California, the annual cost of the present death penalty system is currently $137 million USD. It would cost 70% more ($232m) if critical reforms - to ensure fair trials and eliminate wrongful convictions - were put in place. By contrast, a system of life without parole would cost $11.5m.
"People will say we can't put a price on justice, but in fact, we do put a price on justice when we are not able to give our district attorneys, our police departments, our attorney general the funding they need." - Democratic Rep. Gail Chasey
Some counties have been pushed to the brink of bankruptcy, repeatedly increasing taxes to fund extremely expensive capital cases.
A lot of the money fed into the death penalty system could be used for programmes aimed at reducing crime in the first place.
Prisoners' time could be used meaningfully in prevention or education programmes, even from prison.
"My heart goes out to troublesome youngsters because I 'see' myself in them. And it is my heart to do it. I can explain my heart’s desire to help youngsters understand how wrong decisions can lead them down a path that can lead to prison. I could influence and encourage them to make better choices and strive to further their education. I could use my past mistakes as examples. I could inspire them to believe in themselves and pursue legitimate careers. I could do it, if given the opportunity, because I know how to relate to troublesome youngsters: I’ve been there. Perhaps I could persuade the adults presiding over organizations created to help youngsters or juvenile correctional facilities out there to give me a chance to work or speak with these kids (…). Once they see how the kids respond to me, they [the adults] will be impressed… " - A Mungin, from death row in Florida. Mungin is involved in an educational program with the Victoria’s Academy.
There are things to be argued with this particular artlicle. I looked though about 7 or 8 pages of the deatje penalty thread and didn't see anymore links. I am going to have to do a little research on this.
He's a citizen and deserves all the rights granted to him by the constitution.
They become citizens to work the system. like the Times Square terrorist of Bridgeport, Connecticut, who had become a U.S. citizen in April 2009
....because they know about PC and know how to work it....now we will spent millions on a trials for them.... time we freeze student visas....and close the boarders....the good people can stay....and no PC should be involved when figuring out who the good people are....just command sense
are those that neglected and worked the system in west texas "good people"? west fertilizer management?
this would be a discussion for another thread....but did those that are at fault become citizens right before the place blew up?
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
We know that the EPA, back in 2006, cited West Fertilizer for not having an emergency risk management plan.
Indeed, it has been reported that the company had assured the EPA, in response to the complaint, that there was “no risk” of an explosion at the plant!
An AP article reports that the company, five years after being cited for lacking a risk plan, did file one with the EPA, but that the report claimed the company “…was not handling flammable materials and did not have sprinklers, water-deluge systems, blast walls, fire walls or other safety mechanisms in place at the plant.”
“Records reviewed by The Associated Press show the U.S. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration fined West Fertilizer $10,000 last summer for safety violations that included planning to transport anhydrous ammonia without a security plan. An inspector also found the plant’s ammonia tanks weren’t properly labeled.”
Then the article gets to the crux of the problem, saying:
“The government accepted $5,250 after the company took what it described as corrective actions, the records show. It is not unusual for companies to negotiate lower fines with regulators.”
Aside from the ridiculousness of West Fertilizer management’s reported assertion that the plant wasn’t handling flammable materials (a claim that the current deadly catastrophe has demonstrably proved was false), consider the incredible response of the EPA to this incredible assertion: The agency, emasculated by the Bush administration, and still a joke under the Obama administration, levied a pathetically small fine, but did nothing to shut the operation down until it put in place critical safety measures.
The other agency that could have acted, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), is even more of a paper tiger than the EPA. Despite their inherent risks and hazards, it is reported that OSHA has made only six investigations of fertilizer plant operators in Texas in the last six years. West Fertilizer was not one of them. In six years, it has not been visited by OSHA inspectors!
The government seemed to give them a pass.....The government is not doing there job (as usual) despite several agencies that are supposed to keep workers safe.....The Government should be accountable along with the owners for the deaths....I am sure the owners will be punished (unless they know someone) but the government will probably keep the attitude "does it really matter" how the plant blew up? They never are held accountable.
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
this guy is a citizen. he has rights that are inalienable, correct??
funny how people on here cling to the bill of rights when it comes to amendment number 2, but when it comes to 5th and 6th they would just as soon throw those out.
i would think that it would be more important to make sure that the guy's rights are not violated and that he gets the same due process as i get. if he doesn't, we might as well throw out the entire fucking bill of rights and let the government have its way with all of us.
And then there are those that would throw out Amendment 2. The terrorist worked the system so give them there rights......but we need to learn from this and stop student Visas and close the boarders.
“We the people are the rightful masters of bothCongress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.” Abraham Lincoln
.....but we need to learn from this and stop student Visas and close the boarders.
and how u gonna find cheap workers if you do that??who is gonna clean your pools,mow your lawn ?
not only them take advadadge the system...system take advadange of them you know,,
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
And then there are those that would throw out Amendment 2. The terrorist worked the system so give them there rights......but we need to learn from this and stop student Visas and close the boarders.
:fp:
who is advocating throwing out the 2nd amendment? isn't the right to bear arms in part to guarantee those rights to due process? is a government worth preserving when it is allowed to punish it's citizens without a trial and due process?
don't you believe that the 5th and 6 amendments and the right to due process are more important than the 2nd amendment?
and stopping student visas because a couple of idiots blew up the marathon is the equivalent of making everyone take their shoes off at the airport because one guy had a rudimentary bomb in his shoe...
oh yeah nevermind...
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Hey... Enough with all of your "liberal" facts and Worry about the Constitution.. What we really need to make this country safer is good ole' knee-jerk, reactionary blood lust...
I'm gone ..Long gone..This time I'm letting go of it all...So long...Cause this time I'm gone
Comments
Maybe this is why the U.S will always be riddled with violence. Violence breeds violence.
As for any good that the death penalty does - it does no good whatsoever. It's just state-sanctioned revenge killing that serves no long-term purpose at all.
Anyway, carry on with your blood lust.
This was a horrific act, but no need to abandon our laws/constitution/principles. That's one of the goals of a "terror" attack and we fall for it every time.
They become citizens to work the system. like the Times Square terrorist of Bridgeport, Connecticut, who had become a U.S. citizen in April 2009
....because they know about PC and know how to work it....now we will spent millions on a trials for them.... time we freeze student visas....and close the boarders....the good people can stay....and no PC should be involved when figuring out who the good people are....just command sense
are those that neglected and worked the system in west texas "good people"? west fertilizer management?
We know that the EPA, back in 2006, cited West Fertilizer for not having an emergency risk management plan.
Indeed, it has been reported that the company had assured the EPA, in response to the complaint, that there was “no risk” of an explosion at the plant!
An AP article reports that the company, five years after being cited for lacking a risk plan, did file one with the EPA, but that the report claimed the company “…was not handling flammable materials and did not have sprinklers, water-deluge systems, blast walls, fire walls or other safety mechanisms in place at the plant.”
“Records reviewed by The Associated Press show the U.S. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration fined West Fertilizer $10,000 last summer for safety violations that included planning to transport anhydrous ammonia without a security plan. An inspector also found the plant’s ammonia tanks weren’t properly labeled.”
Then the article gets to the crux of the problem, saying:
“The government accepted $5,250 after the company took what it described as corrective actions, the records show. It is not unusual for companies to negotiate lower fines with regulators.”
Aside from the ridiculousness of West Fertilizer management’s reported assertion that the plant wasn’t handling flammable materials (a claim that the current deadly catastrophe has demonstrably proved was false), consider the incredible response of the EPA to this incredible assertion: The agency, emasculated by the Bush administration, and still a joke under the Obama administration, levied a pathetically small fine, but did nothing to shut the operation down until it put in place critical safety measures.
The other agency that could have acted, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), is even more of a paper tiger than the EPA. Despite their inherent risks and hazards, it is reported that OSHA has made only six investigations of fertilizer plant operators in Texas in the last six years. West Fertilizer was not one of them. In six years, it has not been visited by OSHA inspectors!
It costs more to execute someone than to keep them alive. Check the death penalty thread if you need proof of this.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
funny how people on here cling to the bill of rights when it comes to amendment number 2, but when it comes to 5th and 6th they would just as soon throw those out.
i would think that it would be more important to make sure that the guy's rights are not violated and that he gets the same due process as i get. if he doesn't, we might as well throw out the entire fucking bill of rights and let the government have its way with all of us.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
I was thinking the enlarged words above before I even got to them, gimme. Absolutely true!
http://www.reprieve.org.uk/articles/201 ... Xi4pkrsY-Y
MYTH
The death penalty saves money. It costs less to kill people than to imprison them for life.
FACT
The death penalty costs millions more than a sentence of life without parole. Taxpayers' money could be used more efficiently on crime prevention programs and police.
Death penalty trials require a lot more work. The appeals process is longer and more expensive.
- In Kansas, death penalty trials cost 16 times more, and appeals 21 times more, than in non-death penalty cases.
- In California, the annual cost of the present death penalty system is currently $137 million USD. It would cost 70% more ($232m) if critical reforms - to ensure fair trials and eliminate wrongful convictions - were put in place. By contrast, a system of life without parole would cost $11.5m.
"People will say we can't put a price on justice, but in fact, we do put a price on justice when we are not able to give our district attorneys, our police departments, our attorney general the funding they need." - Democratic Rep. Gail Chasey
Some counties have been pushed to the brink of bankruptcy, repeatedly increasing taxes to fund extremely expensive capital cases.
A lot of the money fed into the death penalty system could be used for programmes aimed at reducing crime in the first place.
Prisoners' time could be used meaningfully in prevention or education programmes, even from prison.
"My heart goes out to troublesome youngsters because I 'see' myself in them. And it is my heart to do it. I can explain my heart’s desire to help youngsters understand how wrong decisions can lead them down a path that can lead to prison. I could influence and encourage them to make better choices and strive to further their education. I could use my past mistakes as examples. I could inspire them to believe in themselves and pursue legitimate careers. I could do it, if given the opportunity, because I know how to relate to troublesome youngsters: I’ve been there. Perhaps I could persuade the adults presiding over organizations created to help youngsters or juvenile correctional facilities out there to give me a chance to work or speak with these kids (…). Once they see how the kids respond to me, they [the adults] will be impressed… " - A Mungin, from death row in Florida. Mungin is involved in an educational program with the Victoria’s Academy.
There are things to be argued with this particular artlicle. I looked though about 7 or 8 pages of the deatje penalty thread and didn't see anymore links. I am going to have to do a little research on this.
The government seemed to give them a pass.....The government is not doing there job (as usual) despite several agencies that are supposed to keep workers safe.....The Government should be accountable along with the owners for the deaths....I am sure the owners will be punished (unless they know someone) but the government will probably keep the attitude "does it really matter" how the plant blew up? They never are held accountable.
And then there are those that would throw out Amendment 2. The terrorist worked the system so give them there rights......but we need to learn from this and stop student Visas and close the boarders.
not only them take advadadge the system...system take advadange of them you know,,
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
who is advocating throwing out the 2nd amendment? isn't the right to bear arms in part to guarantee those rights to due process? is a government worth preserving when it is allowed to punish it's citizens without a trial and due process?
don't you believe that the 5th and 6 amendments and the right to due process are more important than the 2nd amendment?
and stopping student visas because a couple of idiots blew up the marathon is the equivalent of making everyone take their shoes off at the airport because one guy had a rudimentary bomb in his shoe...
oh yeah nevermind...
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."