enemy combatant or not?

badbrains

hedonist wrote:

badbrains wrote:

hedonist wrote:

Being hung by the balls is no more cruel than torture?

Anyway, he should be treated/tried as the American he is.

Ironic, though.

Are you fucken kidding me? Hang him by his balls AFTER he's gone through our system. But to torture him for information? That shit doesn't work and you know it. To torture just for the sake of torturing is bullshit. But I'm all for hangen him by his balls ONCE he's gone through our system.

My point was about inflicting pain, whether to garner information or provide punishment.

I'm for capital punishment, just found the exchange of posts interesting and a little contradictory.

Sorry i confused you with my post. At first I meant it as a figure of speech. I'm all for this fucktard to be punished to the fullest of the law or whatever justice you want to give him because what he did was evil and cruel. But, after he goes through "our" system. As an American, he deserves the right to be tried not tortured.

redrock

Godfather. wrote:

redrock wrote:

Were McVeigh and his accomplices considered 'enemy combatants'? They caused so much more death and destruction.

and he was put to death, my opinopn...definetly an enemy of the people and should be treated as such.

Godfather.

Definitely enemy of the people - yep. But designing this US citizen (whether citizenship acquired or by birth - it's still citizenship) as 'enemy combatant' is just a 'all things go' in the way he will be treated, interrogated (possibly using torture - thus the not reading his miranda rights?), removing any rights he may have (which some can argue he doesn't deserve any), possibly removing his right to a fair trial, etc. A far cry from the likes of McVeigh or even Rudolph who were both treated as the citizens they were, tried, verdict reached and punishment dished out.

I would much rather see that than the government aligning itself to shady practices of the 'enemy combatant'.

redrock

From another thread:

blackredyellow wrote:

The Associated Press ‏@AP
BREAKING: White House says surviving suspect in Boston bombings will not be tried as an enemy combatant.

Good to see

JC29856

Federal prosecutors charged badly wounded Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in his hospital bed on Monday with using a weapon of mass destruction, a charge that could result in the death penalty, officials said.

Do they not have backpacks and pressure cookers in Iraq?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/ ... GQ20130422

Last-12-Exit

JC29856 wrote:

Federal prosecutors charged badly wounded Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in his hospital bed on Monday with using a weapon of mass destruction, a charge that could result in the death penalty, officials said.

Do they not have backpacks and pressure cookers in Iraq?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/ ... GQ20130422

Why is it relevant if there are pressure cooker bombs in Iraq?

redrock

Last-12-Exit wrote:

JC29856 wrote:

Federal prosecutors charged badly wounded Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in his hospital bed on Monday with using a weapon of mass destruction, a charge that could result in the death penalty, officials said.

Do they not have backpacks and pressure cookers in Iraq?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/ ... GQ20130422

Why is it relevant if there are pressure cooker bombs in Iraq?

Never mind the pressure cooker... what's with Iraq? :?

JC29856

Last-12-Exit wrote:

JC29856 wrote:

Federal prosecutors charged badly wounded Boston Marathon bombing suspect Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in his hospital bed on Monday with using a weapon of mass destruction, a charge that could result in the death penalty, officials said.

Do they not have backpacks and pressure cookers in Iraq?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/ ... GQ20130422

Why is it relevant if there are pressure cooker bombs in Iraq?

i deduce the following...
pressure cookers and backpacks are WMDs...they did NOT find any WMDs in Iraq = Iraq has no backpacks and pressure cookers

Jason P

JC29856 wrote:

i deduce the following...
pressure cookers and backpacks are WMDs...they did NOT find any WMDs in Iraq = Iraq has no backpacks and pressure cookers

Huh. So Bush was right afterall.

Go figure ...

JC29856

What are Weapons of Mass Destruction?

Weapons of Mass Destruction (WMD) are defined in US law (18 USC §2332a) as:

“(A) any destructive device as defined in section 921 of this title (i.e. explosive device);
(B) any weapon that is designed or intended to cause death or serious bodily injury through the release, dissemination, or impact of toxic or poisonous chemicals, or their precursors;
(C) any weapon involving a biological agent, toxin, or vector (as those terms are defined in section 178 of this title)(D) any weapon that is designed to release radiation or radioactivity at a level dangerous to human life.”

WMD is often referred to by the collection of modalities that make up the set of weapons: chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, and explosive (CBRNE). These are weapons that have a relatively large-scale impact on people, property, and/or infrastructure.

Why does the Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate (WMDD) exist?

In 2006, the FBI determined that the threat presented by WMD was sufficient to require specialized attention. WMDD was established to create a unique combination of law enforcement authorities, intelligence analysis capabilities, and technical subject matter expertise that exists nowhere else in the U.S. government. The creation of WMDD enabled the FBI to focus its WMD preparedness, prevention, and response capabilities in a single, focused organization rather than through decentralized responsibilities across divisions.

What is the nature of the threat?

WMD terrorism and proliferation are evolving threats to U.S. national security. In his 2010 testimony before the Senate and the House of Representatives, the director of national intelligence stated that dozens of identified domestic and international terrorists and terrorist groups have expressed their intent to obtain and use WMD in future acts of terrorism. The frequency of high-profile acts of terrorism has increased over the past decade. Indicators of this increasing threat include the 9/11 attacks, the 2001 Amerithrax letters, the possession of WMD-related materials by Aafia Siddiqui when she was captured in 2008, and multiple attempts by terrorists at home and abroad to use explosives improvised from basic chemical precursors. The challenge presented by these threats is compounded by the large volume of hoax threats that distract and divert law enforcement agencies from addressing real threats.

In its 2008 report World at Risk, the Commission on the Prevention of WMD Proliferation and Terrorism stated there is a high likelihood of some type of WMD terrorist attack by the year 2013. The U.S. Intelligence Community determined that the most probable WMD scenarios involve the use of toxic industrial chemicals, biological toxins/poisons, or radioisotopes fabricated into an improvised dispersal device. The use of chemical warfare agents, biological warfare agents, and improvised nuclear devices are other possible—though less likely—scenarios due to the difficulties in obtaining the necessary materials, technologies, and expertise.

In addition to efforts by terrorists to use WMD, multiple countries seek to expand their WMD capabilities. For some of these countries, U.S. technologies represent the key to moving their WMD programs forward. The U.S. faces constant attempts by foreign nations to obtain technology, knowledge, and materials for the development and production of chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons. As new technologies emerge and mature and as scientific expertise and technological equipment become more readily available, the challenge of safeguarding these from those that would use them for nefarious purposes is increasing exponentially. Accordingly, the U.S. government must regularly reassess its counterproliferation methods to meet the ever-changing challenge.

What kinds of cases does WMDD manage?

Unlike some other FBI divisions, WMDD approaches cases based on modalities and methods rather than actors. In this way, WMDD addresses purely WMD cases and supports its partners in the Counterterrorism Division and the Counterintelligence Division on cases where the WMD nexus is secondary.

WMDD’s case management responsibilities fall into two primary categories: WMD terrorism and WMD proliferation. The WMD terrorism cases managed by WMDD involve non-attributed instances involving the threat, attempt, or use of a WMD. These may include anything from the mailing of a letter containing white powder to the attempted fabrication of a chemical weapon. On the proliferation side, WMDD handles all WMD proliferation cases that do not directly involve an intelligence officer from a foreign nation.

See the Case Examples webpage for specific examples of the FBI WMD cases.

What is WMD counterproliferation?

Counterproliferation describes the collective activities conducted by U.S. government agencies to prevent foreign governments and other organizations from obtaining WMD or from acquiring the materials, technology, and knowledge necessary to fabricate a WMD. Typically, WMD counterproliferation activities are aimed at preventing the spread of high-impact WMD such as nuclear weapons, contagious biological agents, and military-grade chemical weapons.

JC29856

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-201 ... chap44.htm

Byrnzie

Interesting that so many people here are calling for him to be murdered by the state.

Maybe this is why the U.S will always be riddled with violence. Violence breeds violence.

As for any good that the death penalty does - it does no good whatsoever. It's just state-sanctioned revenge killing that serves no long-term purpose at all.

Anyway, carry on with your blood lust.

butterjam

Enemy combatant? WMD? A big NO on both.

This was a horrific act, but no need to abandon our laws/constitution/principles. That's one of the goals of a "terror" attack and we fall for it every time.

peacefrompaul

He's a citizen and deserves all the rights granted to him by the constitution.

Last-12-Exit

Byrnzie wrote:

Interesting that so many people here are calling for him to be murdered by the state.

Maybe this is why the U.S will always be riddled with violence. Violence breeds violence.

As for any good that the death penalty does - it does no good whatsoever. It's just state-sanctioned revenge killing that serves no long-term purpose at all.

Anyway, carry on with your blood lust.

It serve a long term purpose. The bottom line is that by executing him, it saves the American tax payers from providing this guys health care, housing, and food for the next 40-70 year's.

aerial

peacefrompaul wrote:

He's a citizen and deserves all the rights granted to him by the constitution.

They become citizens to work the system. like the Times Square terrorist of Bridgeport, Connecticut, who had become a U.S. citizen in April 2009
....because they know about PC and know how to work it....now we will spent millions on a trials for them.... time we freeze student visas....and close the boarders....the good people can stay....and no PC should be involved when figuring out who the good people are....just command sense

JC29856

aerial wrote:

peacefrompaul wrote:

He's a citizen and deserves all the rights granted to him by the constitution.

They become citizens to work the system. like the Times Square terrorist of Bridgeport, Connecticut, who had become a U.S. citizen in April 2009
....because they know about PC and know how to work it....now we will spent millions on a trials for them.... time we freeze student visas....and close the boarders....the good people can stay....and no PC should be involved when figuring out who the good people are....just command sense

are those that neglected and worked the system in west texas "good people"? west fertilizer management?

JC29856

working the system...(15 dead)

We know that the EPA, back in 2006, cited West Fertilizer for not having an emergency risk management plan.

Indeed, it has been reported that the company had assured the EPA, in response to the complaint, that there was “no risk” of an explosion at the plant!

An AP article reports that the company, five years after being cited for lacking a risk plan, did file one with the EPA, but that the report claimed the company “…was not handling flammable materials and did not have sprinklers, water-deluge systems, blast walls, fire walls or other safety mechanisms in place at the plant.”

“Records reviewed by The Associated Press show the U.S. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration fined West Fertilizer $10,000 last summer for safety violations that included planning to transport anhydrous ammonia without a security plan. An inspector also found the plant’s ammonia tanks weren’t properly labeled.”

Then the article gets to the crux of the problem, saying:

“The government accepted $5,250 after the company took what it described as corrective actions, the records show. It is not unusual for companies to negotiate lower fines with regulators.”

Aside from the ridiculousness of West Fertilizer management’s reported assertion that the plant wasn’t handling flammable materials (a claim that the current deadly catastrophe has demonstrably proved was false), consider the incredible response of the EPA to this incredible assertion: The agency, emasculated by the Bush administration, and still a joke under the Obama administration, levied a pathetically small fine, but did nothing to shut the operation down until it put in place critical safety measures.

The other agency that could have acted, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA), is even more of a paper tiger than the EPA. Despite their inherent risks and hazards, it is reported that OSHA has made only six investigations of fertilizer plant operators in Texas in the last six years. West Fertilizer was not one of them. In six years, it has not been visited by OSHA inspectors!

Byrnzie

Last-12-Exit wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

Interesting that so many people here are calling for him to be murdered by the state.

Maybe this is why the U.S will always be riddled with violence. Violence breeds violence.

As for any good that the death penalty does - it does no good whatsoever. It's just state-sanctioned revenge killing that serves no long-term purpose at all.

Anyway, carry on with your blood lust.

It serve a long term purpose. The bottom line is that by executing him, it saves the American tax payers from providing this guys health care, housing, and food for the next 40-70 year's.

It costs more to execute someone than to keep them alive. Check the death penalty thread if you need proof of this.

gimmesometruth27

Last-12-Exit wrote:

It serve a long term purpose. The bottom line is that by executing him, it saves the American tax payers from providing this guys health care, housing, and food for the next 40-70 year's.

this is absolutely untrue. look at the death penalty thread. there is a vast number of research links posted that prove time and time again that life in prison costs less than a death sentence, appeals, and the cost of the execution.

gimmesometruth27

this guy is a citizen. he has rights that are inalienable, correct??

funny how people on here cling to the bill of rights when it comes to amendment number 2, but when it comes to 5th and 6th they would just as soon throw those out.

i would think that it would be more important to make sure that the guy's rights are not violated and that he gets the same due process as i get. if he doesn't, we might as well throw out the entire fucking bill of rights and let the government have its way with all of us.