AI revisited (again).

brianlux

A while back, dancepartner posted thoughts on artificial intelligence. This months Mother Jones has published an article by Kevin Drum, entitled "Terminated" which talks about the likelihood of AI becoming a reality twenty years or so from now. The article (which I don't find on-line this early after publication) covers the development of AI and many of its benefits but also focuses much on the problem of jobs elimination. Personally, I believe there are other inherent problems with AI including questions that will arise in the future such as:

-What does it mean to be human?
-What are humans for?
-When is enough?
-If the power goes out in the short term how will we take care of ourselves?
-If the power goes out in the long run, will we survive?
-Once AI is developed, will real, human/hand skills survive? Many are already dying out such as chasing and engraving, weaving, hand sewing, masonry and stone carving, etc.

From my own personal standpoint, I would not mind not living to see AI. I prefer a world full of real minds.

Annafalk

Me too..

hedonist

I don't know where it is now, but awhile back you made a thread about robots making "human" decisions, and if that would be a good thing.

This seems to tie into it, somehow...though from a different angle.

We have robotics doing a shitload for us...analyzing, working an assembly line, running our cars, phone apps that control tv, AC, security systems.

What IS being human? No different than being any other animal.

"Enough" is subjective; who is anyone else to determine what is enough for me?

Let people's opinions apply to themselves and no one else.

dankind

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/08/robot-wrote-this-article-gpt-3

brianlux

dankind said:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/sep/08/robot-wrote-this-article-gpt-3

This is hugely unsettling to me.  Why do we need A.I.? 

And why should we trust A.I. (despite what this machine tells us). 

This machine said this: 

 "I know that my brain is not a “feeling brain”.

...and then this:

"I am grateful for this feedback. I am always grateful for feedback. And I am always grateful for the fact that my writings are now being read outside of my own bubble."

Wednesday Thursday Friday?  Doesn't this sound a bit like lying?  Wait machine, you say you don't have a feeling brain and yet you are telling us you are grateful?  Are you trying to tell me gratitude is not a feeling?  You lying mechanical piece of shit, tell me again why I should trust you?

brianlux

Are you on YouTube and if so, you have a YouTube Voodoo doll.  Another good reason to limit your time there.  (Sorry Machine, don't mean to piss you off!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5LOmeKuyMM

tempo_n_groove

I started that thread "machines controlling our lives" which is basically the same thing.  On FB people play the games and answer questions like What's you mothers name?  What Month are you born? Etc.  This is all a grand way of collecting your information so AI will know whom you are.

As far as carving goes Brian there aren't people clamoring for that so maybe it would go to being a desired skill again which could be a good thing?

hedonist

Tristan was fascinating. I also dug Joe’s time with Gad Saad.

brianlux

tempo_n_groove said:

I started that thread "machines controlling our lives" which is basically the same thing.  On FB people play the games and answer questions like What's you mothers name?  What Month are you born? Etc.  This is all a grand way of collecting your information so AI will know whom you are.

As far as carving goes Brian there aren't people clamoring for that so maybe it would go to being a desired skill again which could be a good thing?

I should have posted it there.

I get in and out of FB as quickly as possible.  I only go there because some people I know only keep in touch that way.  I wish they wouldn't do that!

brianlux

hedonist said:

Tristan was fascinating. I also dug Joe’s time with Gad Saad.

Yeah, he's good!

Lerxst1992

Chat GPT gives Pearl Jam a try,



Sure, here is an example of lyrics that are similar in style to those written by Pearl Jam:

Verse 1: I'm standing on the edge of a cliff With a heart full of rage Trying to forget all the pain And the mistakes I've made

Chorus: But I won't be silenced I'll raise my voice and sing For the ones who've been broken And the ones who've yet to see the light

Verse 2: I've been living in the shadows Of a past that's full of scars But I won't let it define me I'll break the chains and go far

Chorus: 'Cause I won't be silenced I'll raise my voice and sing For the ones who've been broken And the ones who've yet to see the light

Bridge: With every step I take And every breath I make I'll be fighting for a better tomorrow For a world that's free and true

Chorus: And I won't be silenced I'll raise my voice and sing For the ones who've been broken And the ones who've yet to see the light

benjs

In this interview (at least at the beginning), Noam Chomsky gives his thoughts on ChatGPT. I'm disturbed and terrified by the way an intelligent person like he can scoff at what ChatGPT's impact can/will be. People need to wake the fuck up - education and labour are now in a new era. Both serve to be made far better or far worse depending on how this is handled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgxzcOugvEI&ab_channel=EduKitchen

Lerxst1992

Was the 2020 election rigged?

Multiple investigations and court cases have been conducted and have found no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 United States Presidential Election. While there have been isolated instances of voter fraud, they were not significant enough to have impacted the outcome of the election. Both the Trump administration and the Department of Justice under the Biden administration have stated that there is no evidence that the 2020 election was rigged.

Smart bot

Halifax2TheMax

Lerxst1992 said:

Was the 2020 election rigged?

Multiple investigations and court cases have been conducted and have found no evidence of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 United States Presidential Election. While there have been isolated instances of voter fraud, they were not significant enough to have impacted the outcome of the election. Both the Trump administration and the Department of Justice under the Biden administration have stated that there is no evidence that the 2020 election was rigged.

Smart bot

Smart Deep State bot I think you meant to say.

Halifax2TheMax

Lerxst1992 said:

Chat GPT gives Pearl Jam a try,



Sure, here is an example of lyrics that are similar in style to those written by Pearl Jam:

Verse 1: I'm standing on the edge of a cliff With a heart full of rage Trying to forget all the pain And the mistakes I've made

Chorus: But I won't be silenced I'll raise my voice and sing For the ones who've been broken And the ones who've yet to see the light

Verse 2: I've been living in the shadows Of a past that's full of scars But I won't let it define me I'll break the chains and go far

Chorus: 'Cause I won't be silenced I'll raise my voice and sing For the ones who've been broken And the ones who've yet to see the light

Bridge: With every step I take And every breath I make I'll be fighting for a better tomorrow For a world that's free and true

Chorus: And I won't be silenced I'll raise my voice and sing For the ones who've been broken And the ones who've yet to see the light

Are you sure that you didn’t find this on the Backspacer editing room floor?

brianlux

benjs said:

In this interview (at least at the beginning), Noam Chomsky gives his thoughts on ChatGPT. I'm disturbed and terrified by the way an intelligent person like he can scoff at what ChatGPT's impact can/will be. People need to wake the fuck up - education and labour are now in a new era. Both serve to be made far better or far worse depending on how this is handled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgxzcOugvEI&ab_channel=EduKitchen

Here's my initial response, Ben:

Ouch!  Coming from you, Ben, knowing you as a good, smart, compassionate soul, and though not a fan being being told to "wake the fuck up", I'll try to be open minded about this. 

You may have no idea how difficult the above statement is for me to make!

But I'm assuming you are strongly in favor of the development of ChatGPT's and since I am unable to view the link (shitty ISP service here), I may be totally off base here.  Perhaps you could elaborate a bit further your views on this subject? 

Halifax2TheMax

benjs said:

In this interview (at least at the beginning), Noam Chomsky gives his thoughts on ChatGPT. I'm disturbed and terrified by the way an intelligent person like he can scoff at what ChatGPT's impact can/will be. People need to wake the fuck up - education and labour are now in a new era. Both serve to be made far better or far worse depending on how this is handled.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgxzcOugvEI&ab_channel=EduKitchen

It didn’t appear to me that he scoffed at the concept but was rather pretty critical of it as another, latest form of plagerism. He was much more critical of the ongoing onslaught against public education and education in general of the past 40 years and hinted at the desire for their to be “dumbbots” people who government could more easily control. I don’t think he expounded on the future of chatai and the potential ramifications, good or bad. Admittedly, I only watched until they shifted to the second subject about 18-20 minutes in figuring on the introduction of what they were going to discuss.

Did they go deeper in depth after 20 minutes? If so, I’ll go back and watch the rest.

Lerxst1992

Not that impressed with this answer,

Who is a better musician stone gossard or Mike mccready?

It is subjective to determine who is a better musician between Stone Gossard and Mike McCready as both are highly skilled and accomplished musicians in their own right. Stone Gossard is a founding member of the band Pearl Jam and has been a major contributor to the band's songwriting and guitar playing. Mike McCready is also a founding member of Pearl Jam and is known for his guitar solos and contributions to the band's songwriting. Both have also pursued solo projects and collaborations outside of Pearl Jam.

static111

Chat GPT reminds me of those pictures of schooners in the mall that were all the rage for a few years.

Spiritual_Chaos

static111

From Nick Cave

https://www.theredhandfiles.com/chat-gpt-what-do-you-think/

.ISSUE #218 / JANUARY 2023

I asked Chat GPT to write a song in the style of Nick Cave and this is what it produced. What do you think? 

Verse 1: 
In the depths of the night, I hear a call 
A voice that echoes, through the hall 
It’s a siren’s song, that pulls me in 
Takes me to a place, where I can’t begin  

Chorus: 
I am the sinner, I am the saint 
I am the darkness, I am the light 
I am the hunter, I am the prey 
I am the devil, I am the savior  

Verse 2: 
I walk the streets, with my head held high 
I’ve got my demons, but I’ll make them fly 
I’ll dance with the devil, and I’ll play his game 
I’ll be the one, to call his name 

Chorus: 
I am the sinner, I am the saint 
I am the darkness, I am the light 
I am the hunter, I am the prey 
I am the devil, I am the savior  

Bridge: 
I’ve got the blood of angels, on my hands 
I’ve got the fire of hell, in my eyes 
I’m the king of the abyss, I’m the ruler of the dark 
I’m the one that they fear, in the shadows they hark 

Chorus: 
I am the sinner, I am the saint 
I am the darkness, I am the light 
I am the hunter, I am the prey 
I am the devil, I am the savior 

Outro: 
So come with me, to the edge of the night 
Where the darkness and the light collide 
We’ll walk the line, between the good and the bad 
And we’ll see, who comes out on top in the end.

MARK, CHRISTCHURCH, NEW ZEALAND

Dear Mark,

Since its launch in November last year many people, most buzzing with a kind of algorithmic awe, have sent me songs ‘in the style of Nick Cave’ created by ChatGPT. There have been dozens of them. Suffice to say, I do not feel the same enthusiasm around this technology. I understand that ChatGPT is in its infancy but perhaps that is the emerging horror of AI – that it will forever be in its infancy, as it will always have further to go, and the direction is always forward, always faster. It can never be rolled back, or slowed down, as it moves us toward a utopian future, maybe, or our total destruction. Who can possibly say which? Judging by this song ‘in the style of Nick Cave’ though, it doesn’t look good, Mark. The apocalypse is well on its way. This song sucks.

What ChatGPT is, in this instance, is replication as travesty. ChatGPT may be able to write a speech or an essay or a sermon or an obituary but it cannot create a genuine song. It could perhaps in time create a song that is, on the surface, indistinguishable from an original, but it will always be a replication, a kind of burlesque.

Songs arise out of suffering, by which I mean they are predicated upon the complex, internal human struggle of creation and, well, as far as I know, algorithms don’t feel. Data doesn’t suffer. ChatGPT has no inner being, it has been nowhere, it has endured nothing, it has not had the audacity to reach beyond its limitations, and hence it doesn’t have the capacity for a shared transcendent experience, as it has no limitations from which to transcend. ChatGPT’s melancholy role is that it is destined to imitate and can never have an authentic human experience, no matter how devalued and inconsequential the human experience may in time become.

What makes a great song great is not its close resemblance to a recognizable work. Writing a good song is not mimicry, or replication, or pastiche, it is the opposite. It is an act of self-murder that destroys all one has strived to produce in the past. It is those dangerous, heart-stopping departures that catapult the artist beyond the limits of what he or she recognises as their known self. This is part of the authentic creative struggle that precedes the invention of a unique lyric of actual value; it is the breathless confrontation with one’s vulnerability, one’s perilousness, one’s smallness, pitted against a sense of sudden shocking discovery; it is the redemptive artistic act that stirs the heart of the listener, where the listener recognizes in the inner workings of the song their own blood, their own struggle, their own suffering. This is what we humble humans can offer, that AI can only mimic, the transcendent journey of the artist that forever grapples with his or her own shortcomings. This is where human genius resides, deeply embedded within, yet reaching beyond, those limitations.

It may sound like I’m taking all this a little too personally, but I’m a songwriter who is engaged, at this very moment, in the process of songwriting. It’s a blood and guts business, here at my desk, that requires something of me to initiate the new and fresh idea. It requires my humanness. What that new idea is, I don’t know, but it is out there somewhere, searching for me. In time, we will find each other.

Mark, thanks for the song, but with all the love and respect in the world, this song is bullshit, a grotesque mockery of what it is to be human, and, well, I don’t much like it — although, hang on!, rereading it, there is a line in there that speaks to me —

‘I’ve got the fire of hell in my eyes’ 

— says the song ‘in the style of Nick Cave’, and that’s kind of true. I have got the fire of hell in my eyes – and it’s ChatGPT.

Love, Nick