Pics where IDF look hot...part 2

yosi

And to lighten the mood a little:

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-d ... m-1.512047

mysticweed

yosi wrote:

Has this picture been verified by anyone that it is what it appears to be? No matter what the picture is terrible for the message it conveys. I'm curious, though, because there's clearly hebrew writing on the wall behind the soldiers, and the setting looks to me like some sort of classroom, and the soldiers aren't in combat gear, all of which suggests to me that this might be a bunch of kids playing around in an inappropriate way rather than the abuse of a prisoner.

what i was thinking
looks fake to me

badbrains

Yup, fake.... :roll:

yosi

Not fake, just an uncaptioned image, which could be very easily mistaken to depict something other than what it actually shows. Or not. I'm just asking if anyone has any more info about the picture?

badbrains

yosi wrote:

Not fake, just an uncaptioned image, which could be very easily mistaken to depict something other than what it actually shows. Or not. I'm just asking if anyone has any more info about the picture?

Come on yosi, deep down in your heart you know that it's real. Look, I understand why you'd question this picture, trust me I do. I'm Muslim and get embarrassed by a lot of the shit that gets done in my religions name. What's wrong is wrong and right is right, that picture is soooo wrong in sooo many ways. That could be your sister, my sister who's 16 years old, or even mystics daughter (if she has one), it's ok to admit that shit gets done in your religions name that you dnt agree with at all. No religions perfect, they may all think they are, but who are we kidding here. Dnt defend it blindly. I've talked to you thru pm yosi, you're a good guy. You seem smart and knowledgeable. I dnt always agree with you, but I'm quick to defend you as a person. And I'm sorry to say, this picture is what it is, and it's fucked up.

yosi

Like I said, the picture is f-ed up no matter which way you cut it. I'm not looking to defend the pic, I'm just asking whether the assumptions that everyone is jumping too are actually justified. In that regard I'd point out that you yourself are assuming that what's depicted in the photo is religiously motivated. What about the photo makes you think that religion has anything to do with it? People are jumping to conclusions; perhaps those conclusions are warranted. Perhaps they are not.

This conflict has spawned many images that appeared to show one thing and were later acknowledged to have been misinterpreted/mischaracterized. I remember one famous case in particular where an AP photo showed a young man with a bloodied head and close behind him an angry-looking Israeli policeman yelling and raising a baton. The caption read "An Israeli Policeman and a Palestinian on the Temple Mount," and was taken to depict the policeman beating the Palestinian young man. In turned out that the young man was not Palestinian, but was rather an American Jewish student, the picture wasn't taken on the Temple Mount, and the policeman wasn't attacking the student, but was rather trying to protect him from a Palestinian mob that had dragged him from the back of a cab and beaten and stabbed him.

All of which is to say that pictures can be deceiving.

Byrnzie

Shame that there aren't more people like this in Israel:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ap ... tor-eighth

Israel set to jail teenage conscientious objector for eighth time

Nathan Blanc has spent more than 100 days in prison over the past 19 weeks due to his refusal to enlist in Israeli army

Harriet Sherwood, Jerusalem
The Guardian, Sunday 31 March 2013


It is a routine Nathan Blanc knows well. At 9am on Tuesday morning, the 19-year-old will report, as instructed in his draft papers, to a military base near Tel Aviv. There he will state his objection to serving in the Israeli army. Following his refusal to enlist, Blanc expects to be arrested and sentenced to between 10 and 20 days in jail. He will then be taken to Military Prison Number 6 to serve his time. And then, following his release, the cycle will begin over again.

The reason why Blanc knows what to expect is that this will be the eighth time the teenage conscientious objector has been jailed in the past 19 weeks. Since the date of his original call-up for military service, Blanc has spent more than 100 days in prison; on one occasion, he was released on a Tuesday and re-imprisoned two days later on a Thursday.

Blanc began to consider the possibility of refusing the draft several years ago. "It was a very hard decision, it took me a long time to get to it," he says.

The turning point was Operation Cast Lead, the war in Gaza that began at the end of 2008 and ended three weeks later with a Palestinian death toll of around 1,400. In a statement issued when he was first imprisoned, Blanc said: "The wave of aggressive militarism that swept the country then, the expressions of mutual hatred, and the vacuous talk about stamping out terror and creating a deterrent effect were the primary trigger for my refusal."

The government, he said, was "not interested in finding a solution to the existing situation, but rather in preserving it … We will talk of deterrence, we will kill some terrorist, we will lose some civilians on both sides, and we will prepare the ground for a new generation full of hatred on both sides … We, as citizens and human beings, have a moral duty to refuse to participate in this cynical game."

In an interview with the Guardian, he says: "The war going on in this country for more than 60 years could have ended a long time ago. But both sides are giving into extremists and fundamentalists. The occupation was supposed to be temporary, but now no one speaks of it ending."

The Israeli state, he adds, keeps people "under our control" without democratic rights. Palestinians are subject to "collective punishment" for the actions of a few.

...Blanc rejected the option taken by some objectors of claiming a medical condition that would exempt him from military service. "I didn't want to lie. This is a point of principle."

...He brushes aside a suggestion that his current stance could harm his future prospects. "I'm proud of what I'm doing. I may have caused some damage to my future, but it's minor compared to the principle at stake."

badbrains

yosi wrote:

Like I said, the picture is f-ed up no matter which way you cut it. I'm not looking to defend the pic, I'm just asking whether the assumptions that everyone is jumping too are actually justified. In that regard I'd point out that you yourself are assuming that what's depicted in the photo is religiously motivated. What about the photo makes you think that religion has anything to do with it? People are jumping to conclusions; perhaps those conclusions are warranted. Perhaps they are not.

This conflict has spawned many images that appeared to show one thing and were later acknowledged to have been misinterpreted/mischaracterized. I remember one famous case in particular where an AP photo showed a young man with a bloodied head and close behind him an angry-looking Israeli policeman yelling and raising a baton. The caption read "An Israeli Policeman and a Palestinian on the Temple Mount," and was taken to depict the policeman beating the Palestinian young man. In turned out that the young man was not Palestinian, but was rather an American Jewish student, the picture wasn't taken on the Temple Mount, and the policeman wasn't attacking the student, but was rather trying to protect him from a Palestinian mob that had dragged him from the back of a cab and beaten and stabbed him.

All of which is to say that pictures can be deceiving.

Religiously motivated? Of course it is! Yosi, you have a pic depicting IDF doing this shit to jews? Are we gonna sit here and debate this now?

badbrains

Byrnzie wrote:

Shame that there aren't more people like this in Israel:


http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/ap ... tor-eighth

Israel set to jail teenage conscientious objector for eighth time

Nathan Blanc has spent more than 100 days in prison over the past 19 weeks due to his refusal to enlist in Israeli army

Harriet Sherwood, Jerusalem
The Guardian, Sunday 31 March 2013


It is a routine Nathan Blanc knows well. At 9am on Tuesday morning, the 19-year-old will report, as instructed in his draft papers, to a military base near Tel Aviv. There he will state his objection to serving in the Israeli army. Following his refusal to enlist, Blanc expects to be arrested and sentenced to between 10 and 20 days in jail. He will then be taken to Military Prison Number 6 to serve his time. And then, following his release, the cycle will begin over again.

The reason why Blanc knows what to expect is that this will be the eighth time the teenage conscientious objector has been jailed in the past 19 weeks. Since the date of his original call-up for military service, Blanc has spent more than 100 days in prison; on one occasion, he was released on a Tuesday and re-imprisoned two days later on a Thursday.

Blanc began to consider the possibility of refusing the draft several years ago. "It was a very hard decision, it took me a long time to get to it," he says.

The turning point was Operation Cast Lead, the war in Gaza that began at the end of 2008 and ended three weeks later with a Palestinian death toll of around 1,400. In a statement issued when he was first imprisoned, Blanc said: "The wave of aggressive militarism that swept the country then, the expressions of mutual hatred, and the vacuous talk about stamping out terror and creating a deterrent effect were the primary trigger for my refusal."

The government, he said, was "not interested in finding a solution to the existing situation, but rather in preserving it … We will talk of deterrence, we will kill some terrorist, we will lose some civilians on both sides, and we will prepare the ground for a new generation full of hatred on both sides … We, as citizens and human beings, have a moral duty to refuse to participate in this cynical game."

In an interview with the Guardian, he says: "The war going on in this country for more than 60 years could have ended a long time ago. But both sides are giving into extremists and fundamentalists. The occupation was supposed to be temporary, but now no one speaks of it ending."

The Israeli state, he adds, keeps people "under our control" without democratic rights. Palestinians are subject to "collective punishment" for the actions of a few.

...Blanc rejected the option taken by some objectors of claiming a medical condition that would exempt him from military service. "I didn't want to lie. This is a point of principle."

...He brushes aside a suggestion that his current stance could harm his future prospects. "I'm proud of what I'm doing. I may have caused some damage to my future, but it's minor compared to the principle at stake."

Wow, bravo Nathan bravo. Oh wait Steve, this story mite be fake too :roll:

yosi

Badbrains, this may surprise you, but for a great many people on both sides this conflict is about competing secular nationalisms, not religion.

badbrains

Is that what we're calling the occupation, nationalism? Interesting

yosi

I don't get what you mean by that. I'm not trying to be evasive or to meaninglessly substitute terms. I'm telling you that there are many people who are deeply engaged in this conflict who understand it in entirely secular terms, and who have as much disdain for the religious zealotry of their compatriots as you do. To suggest, therefore, that this whole conflict is simply about religion is just plainly false.

polaris_x

yosi or anyone for that matter seen the gatekeepers yet?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2309788/

i think if the last 5 heads of shin bet say the same thing ... and that same thing isn't the standard israeli propaganda ... people should listen ...

like i've always contended - the only path to peace is with the will of the israeli people ... only when israeli denounces their terrorist wing and move to a national gov't that does not push the zionist agenda will there be peace ... hamas or any other military group in palestine could cease to exist in this instant and we would be no closer to peace ...

DriftingByTheStorm

FWIW, that "innocent little girl" appears to have one or two improvised homemade explosive devices sitting in front of her.

???
and most here should know that I'm not too overly fond of the Israeli approach to the conflict. to say the least.

DriftingByTheStorm

polaris_x wrote:

only when israeli denounces their terrorist wing and move to a national gov't that does not push the zionist agenda will there be peace

How can a people come together to have their Nation-State Government NOT push a Nation-State agenda?

I think Yosi has made this point before as well.
Zionism IS by definition a movement to establish, maintain and protect a State of Israel.
Why would you expect, or even think it possible, for a pre-existing State of Israel to not maintain a "Zionist" government?

DriftingByTheStorm

and, Badbrains,
to your "side" of the "argument" (really both opposing sides of a horrible racial conflict) ...
http://palestinianprisoners.blogspot.co ... diers.html

badbrains

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

FWIW, that "innocent little girl" appears to have one or two improvised homemade explosive devices sitting in front of her.

???
and most here should know that I'm not too overly fond of the Israeli approach to the conflict. to say the least.

They use propane tanks in the Middle East for there stove tops. They dnt have gas pipes running to there houses. And not for nothing, but a 12year old girl walking with a propane tank isn't the brightest ideas for an improvised bomb. I do see your point tho how one can assume its a bomb.

polaris_x

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

How can a people come together to have their Nation-State Government NOT push a Nation-State agenda?

I think Yosi has made this point before as well.
Zionism IS by definition a movement to establish, maintain and protect a State of Israel.
Why would you expect, or even think it possible, for a pre-existing State of Israel to not maintain a "Zionist" government?

the current nation-state gov't is not interested in peace ... the definition of zionism is up for debate as yes - in its simplest form, it means what you've said but what defines the state of israel geographically? ... the difference is that zionists aim to take all the land they can - hence the ever continuing expansionist agenda ...

gimmesometruth27

polaris_x wrote:

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

How can a people come together to have their Nation-State Government NOT push a Nation-State agenda?

I think Yosi has made this point before as well.
Zionism IS by definition a movement to establish, maintain and protect a State of Israel.
Why would you expect, or even think it possible, for a pre-existing State of Israel to not maintain a "Zionist" government?

the current nation-state gov't is not interested in peace ... the definition of zionism is up for debate as yes - in its simplest form, it means what you've said but what defines the state of israel geographically? ... the difference is that zionists aim to take all the land they can - hence the ever continuing expansionist agenda ...

they believe that that land is there for the taking, otherwise why would they expand settlements? what would give them the authority to do so?

they should be like the rest of us and respect and honor established borders by not expanding on to other people's land. unfortunately nobody can agree on where the borders are. the international community, except for the us, has tried to establish them at the pre-1967 war borders, but the us keeps allowing israel to expand beyond those. the us is allowing the conflict to continue by doing nothing to condemn the israeli government's policies.

peacefrompaul

I'm so sick of this shit