Maybe there's hope - 19 y.o. fights teaching creationism

PJ_Soul

Glad to see the younger generation has at least one person who really gives enough of a shit to actually try and do something. :thumbup:

http://www.upworthy.com/the-19-year-old ... ney?c=upw1

polaris_x

america is becoming more and more extremist ... the stats are staggering ...

PJ_Soul

polaris_x wrote:

america is becoming more and more extremist ... the stats are staggering ...

Yeah, it's bizarre. I don't understand it. I guess it's about uncreative people seeking more control over everything. Literally. That is pathetic IMO. I'm just glad that there are people actually willing to take action against it. I hope it works. The fundamentalism in the US scares the shit out of me.

Abuskedti

I swear the host of that show, the man interviewing the young man, used to have a Sunday Christian show guess I am just being racist against old white people.. sorry

polaris_x

PJ_Soul wrote:

Yeah, it's bizarre. I don't understand it. I guess it's about uncreative people seeking more control over everything. Literally. That is pathetic IMO. I'm just glad that there are people actually willing to take action against it. I hope it works. The fundamentalism in the US scares the shit out of me.

the thing with indoctrinated people ... is that they are easily manipulated ... ultimately, it allows america to be the way it is ... a place where corporations rule the roost ...

Jeanwah

Abuskedti wrote:

I swear the host of that show, the man interviewing the young man, used to have a Sunday Christian show guess I am just being racist against old white people.. sorry

Bill Moyers?! Far from it!

That kid should be a hero. Well spoken, mature, has guts.

Cosmo

Abuskedti wrote:

I swear the host of that show, the man interviewing the young man, used to have a Sunday Christian show guess I am just being racist against old white people.. sorry

...
Actually, That is Bill Moyers, a trusted journalist.
But, I can see how easily he can be confused with those T.V. Evangalists. I think it is the cheap studio backdrop.

Cosmo

I watched this show when it broadcast.
for further insight into the Discovery Institute and its 'Wedge Strategy' to inject Creationism (disguised as science in 'Intelligent Design'), watch the NOVA program called, 'Judgement Day: Intelligent Design on Trial' ( http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/evolution/ ... trial.html ).
It discusses the 2005 landmark case in Dover, PA. The verdict was that Intelligent Design is just a re-packaged version of Creationism, backed and funded by the Discovery Institute. A violation of the seperation between Church and State.
You may remember this case... it was the one where Pat Robertson said, "I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: if there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God, you just rejected Him from your city."

aerial

But what about the people that do believe in God? Can they opt out of the evolution class? If so I guess it would be fine, if not it would be indoctrination anyway.

PJ_Soul

aerial wrote:

But what about the people that do believe in God? Can they opt out of the evolution class? If so I guess it would be fine, if not it would be indoctrination anyway.

This is not about "people who believe in God." But for those who refuse evolution and all science related to it, they should be going to a religious school that teaches that nonsense. Teaching evolution is NOT indoctrination. You're acting as though evolution and creationism are on equal footing. They're not. There is NO reason for government or schools to act as though they are.

javis el errante

PJ_Soul wrote:

Glad to see the younger generation has at least one person who really gives enough of a shit to actually try and do something. :thumbup:

http://www.upworthy.com/the-19-year-old ... ney?c=upw1

With that titled, I knew this was from Upworthy...

Check this great video... The most hilarious attack on science!

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-o ... -it-up-to-

Prince Of Dorkness

aerial wrote:

But what about the people that do believe in God? Can they opt out of the evolution class? If so I guess it would be fine, if not it would be indoctrination anyway.

OH. Please.

If you do "believe in god," that's frankly not an excuse to teach fairy tales as fact to your kids.

No. Sorry, I draw the line at silly superstitions and made up superhero zombie stories being used as an excuse to cut class and not learn something. Creationism is not science. It's just people too dumb to understand biology saying "No... god made it." That's all and nothing more.

brianlux

Where do people live who don't believe evolution should be taught? I'm not sure I want to go there.

evolution is such a major part of science and nature leaving evolution out of a science class would be like having your english teacher walk in and say we're going to learn about sentence structure and grammar in this class but we won't be using any punctuation as there is no such thing

True, James Joyce tried it once... but only for one chapter... thankfully!

know1

I am a strong believer in God and believe he created the universe.

That being said, I believe in evolution. It's impossible to truly deny that species have evolved over time.

There sure are some extremely close-minded, arrogant individuals on both sides of the fence.

mysticweed

know1 wrote:

I am a strong believer in God and believe he created the universe.

That being said, I believe in evolution. It's impossible to truly deny that species have evolved over time.

There sure are some extremely close-minded, arrogant individuals on both sides of the fence.

i feel the same
sort of
maybe not the terms "god" and "he"
and i believe there are billions of other universes all in various stages of their evolution
a la creation via evolution

Bentleyspop

aerial wrote:

But what about the people that do believe in God? Can they opt out of the evolution class? If so I guess it would be fine, if not it would be indoctrination anyway.

You can believe in god and not believe in creationism. The 2 are not exclusive

You know that when god created man she was just kidding

riotgrl

I just don't understand this. Creationism and intelligent design are not scientific theories while evolution IS. Why would (public) schools teach creationism in a science class? Teaching that god created the earth or that an "intelligent designer" created is the purview of religious institutions.

hedonist

know1 wrote:

That being said, I believe in evolution. It's impossible to truly deny that species have evolved over time.

There sure are some extremely close-minded, arrogant individuals on both sides of the fence.

Faith and reason...how 'bout that?

Agree with you on the fence comment.

cincybearcat

riotgrl wrote:

I just don't understand this. Creationism and intelligent design are not scientific theories while evolution IS. Why would (public) schools teach creationism in a science class? Teaching that god created the earth or that an "intelligent designer" created is the purview of religious institutions.

Personally I don;t have a problem with schools teaching that religions have other theories. It's all about learning and deciding for yourself. The problem is most people only want kids taught the stuff that they believe in, so the kids don;t get to learn and make up their own minds, they get brainwashed.

polaris_x

cincybearcat wrote:

Personally I don;t have a problem with schools teaching that religions have other theories. It's all about learning and deciding for yourself. The problem is most people only want kids taught the stuff that they believe in, so the kids don;t get to learn and make up their own minds, they get brainwashed.

it's the whole separation of church and state thing ... it's ok to teach religion ... as you probably know - i am fairly anti-religion ... however, i consider myself agnostic and i do think the catholic church should be destroyed ...

having said that - i believe all faiths should have equal opportunity in a PUBLIC education system ... i don't think tho that non-science related things like creationism should be taught in science classes ...

this is strictly the religious right in america trying to indoctrinate a faith any which way they can ... go ahead and tout intelligent design at church or in religion class but don't try to pawn it off as science ...

riotgrl

cincybearcat wrote:

riotgrl wrote:

I just don't understand this. Creationism and intelligent design are not scientific theories while evolution IS. Why would (public) schools teach creationism in a science class? Teaching that god created the earth or that an "intelligent designer" created is the purview of religious institutions.

Personally I don;t have a problem with schools teaching that religions have other theories. It's all about learning and deciding for yourself. The problem is most people only want kids taught the stuff that they believe in, so the kids don;t get to learn and make up their own minds, they get brainwashed.

Teaching religion in a world history class or geography class when teaching culture is where it makes most sense (to me at least as I teach a great deal about religion in my classes). I don't believe it has a place in science class as a legitimate theory.

cincybearcat

polaris_x wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Personally I don;t have a problem with schools teaching that religions have other theories. It's all about learning and deciding for yourself. The problem is most people only want kids taught the stuff that they believe in, so the kids don;t get to learn and make up their own minds, they get brainwashed.

it's the whole separation of church and state thing ... it's ok to teach religion ... as you probably know - i am fairly anti-religion ... however, i consider myself agnostic and i do think the catholic church should be destroyed ...

having said that - i believe all faiths should have equal opportunity in a PUBLIC education system ... i don't think tho that non-science related things like creationism should be taught in science classes ...

this is strictly the religious right in america trying to indoctrinate a faith any which way they can ... go ahead and tout intelligent design at church or in religion class but don't try to pawn it off as science ...

Yeah, I'm close to what you are saying. I'm not saying teach creationism...but simply mention it's existence.

cincybearcat

riotgrl wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

riotgrl wrote:

I just don't understand this. Creationism and intelligent design are not scientific theories while evolution IS. Why would (public) schools teach creationism in a science class? Teaching that god created the earth or that an "intelligent designer" created is the purview of religious institutions.

Personally I don;t have a problem with schools teaching that religions have other theories. It's all about learning and deciding for yourself. The problem is most people only want kids taught the stuff that they believe in, so the kids don;t get to learn and make up their own minds, they get brainwashed.

Teaching religion in a world history class or geography class when teaching culture is where it makes most sense (to me at least as I teach a great deal about religion in my classes). I don't believe it has a place in science class as a legitimate theory.

I actually think we'd be a lot better off if we had a religion class in Middle school or high school where you simply learned the beliefs and traditions of many religions. Doubt you could cover all and all the nuances though and then someone is going to be pissed off!!!!

polaris_x

cincybearcat wrote:

Yeah, I'm close to what you are saying. I'm not saying teach creationism...but simply mention it's existence.

thing is - if it's a science class ... mentioning creationism should theoretically result in the deconstruction of the theory ... saying there is an "alternate theory" is misleading because there is no science tied into that belief ... you'd have to have some scientific basis for it ...

cincybearcat

polaris_x wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Yeah, I'm close to what you are saying. I'm not saying teach creationism...but simply mention it's existence.

thing is - if it's a science class ... mentioning creationism should theoretically result in the deconstruction of the theory ... saying there is an "alternate theory" is misleading because there is no science tied into that belief ... you'd have to have some scientific basis for it ...

Tis a good point.

Cosmo

polaris_x wrote:

cincybearcat wrote:

Yeah, I'm close to what you are saying. I'm not saying teach creationism...but simply mention it's existence.

thing is - if it's a science class ... mentioning creationism should theoretically result in the deconstruction of the theory ... saying there is an "alternate theory" is misleading because there is no science tied into that belief ... you'd have to have some scientific basis for it ...

...
That's how i feel...
I have absolutely no problem with Creationism used as a reference in a class titled 'Theology'. And i don't have a problem with the Bible being read in classrooms under the heading of 'Literature'. But, to try to extract Creationism from Biblical Text and try to pass it off as Science is the same thing as trying to pass off 'A Tale of Two Cities' as Math or 'The Cat In The Hat' as History.
I don't think there is anything wrong if public schools taught about all religions and adhere their Holy Texts to each religion. But, leave religion and their texts in the realm of Theology, where it belongs, not in the field of Science, where it makes no sense.

Prince Of Dorkness

If we are expected to teach "Creationism" in science class, we should also teach evolution in Sunday school.

OR...

How's this...

We teach kids that

And then we teach them that God says "1 + 1 = 3."

Give kids all the information and let them decide for themselves.

OR maybe people who can't understand science and math should keep their idiot Christian selves out of science and math class. :fp:

How's that?

does that work for y'all?

cincybearcat

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

If we are expected to teach "Creationism" in science class, we should also teach evolution in Sunday school.

OR...

How's this...

We teach kids that

And then we teach them that God says "1 + 1 = 3."

Give kids all the information and let them decide for themselves.

OR maybe people who can't understand science and math should keep their idiot Christian selves out of science and math class. :fp:

How's that?

does that work for y'all?

You have a gift. A gift of making people that tend to agree with you pissed off at you.

Prince Of Dorkness

cincybearcat wrote:

You have a gift. A gift of making people that tend to agree with you pissed off at you.

Meh. Every creative genius is that way because he doesn't really care who gets pissed.

That said... yes... I know... I can be a jerk. But quite frankly, I'm sick of having to "respect" people's asinine superstitions. Believe what you want, I believe Christians are idiots and will say so.

your move now

it's really very simple, science; teach evolution. IF you want your kid to learn creationism there is Sunday School or send them to a religious school where I'm sure RE will cover it.... I would know for sure because I was regularly ejected from those classes but it seems like something they would have covered

brianlux

From now on, if someone I'm talking to gets upset about the concept of evolution I'll tell them, "Get over it, you could have been a fury beast."

Someone should use that line in a song. You know, something like "You are, you are, a fury beast."

http://lightyears.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03 ... hpt=hp_bn1