3. I'm also tired of the whole "using children" thing - whether in this instance, or the occupy movement, or anti-abortion protests, or those fucking Subaru commercials, etc. Let children fucking BE children, and not have them be their parents' (or corporations') mouthpieces for purposes of pulling at heartstrings
But the article says it was the little girl's idea to make & take & hold the sign & for it to say what it did despite the dad telling her that guitar smashing is a thing of the past. I mean, in my opinion, the dad could have put his foot down more if he wanted to, but I don't think that this is an adult "using children for their own pursposes" instance, ya know?
3. I'm also tired of the whole "using children" thing - whether in this instance, or the occupy movement, or anti-abortion protests, or those fucking Subaru commercials, etc. Let children fucking BE children, and not have them be their parents' (or corporations') mouthpieces for purposes of pulling at heartstrings
But the article says it was the little girl's idea to make & take & hold the sign & for it to say what it did despite the dad telling her that guitar smashing is a thing of the past. I mean, in my opinion, the dad could have put his foot down more if he wanted to, but I don't think that this is an adult "using children for their own pursposes" instance, ya know?
You may be right. All I'm going by is how I (think I) was at seven years old...and how my parents, well, parented me. Children at that age require/demand guidance by those supposedly wiser. My remark is also prompted by seeing children regularly used as accessories, much like lapdogs.
(I also have come to distrust what articles - and their authors - offer up as truth)
I liked to hear what The Who Princess has to say on this matter. Now this kind of stuff would never happen at a RUSH concert. In fact of the 46 times I've seen the band I've never ever heard Geddy Lee curse. It's always safe to take daughter who first saw them at 7, all she needs are ear plugs.
Beyond what I've said there, this seems to have turned into a why-Pete-Townsend-is-an-asshole-and-I-always-knew-he-was-guilty rant and I've had more than enough of those conversations.
I don't think anyone is expecting Peter to display G-Rated behaviour and god-like behaviour... get serious. I think what people are expecting Peter to display though is at least a remote level of respect for the support they have been given. Most performers express at least some gratitude for their fans and some gush for their fans: thanking them for affording them the lifestyle they live!
I guess I have a different perspective for how I feel I should be treated at a concert. I'm not paying to get cussed out or spit on or pissed on. I'm paying to show up, enjoy, pay tribute and have a great time. If I was acting like an ass... then I could expect to be addressed. This goofy situation hardly qualifies for a verbal assault in front of 1000s of people.
How YOU should be treated at a concert? Like any performer owes you anything. Good god... It all goes right back to having expectations... And what he did is nothing compared to say a punk concert where the band throws nothing but insults into the crowd. (Yet the crowd loves this and begs for more, because it IS a punk rock show...)
I never said anything at all about performers owing me anything. I mentioned that many performers respect and appreciate their fan base. They don't view them as simple-minded minions there for their abuse if the mood strikes them. Are you saying that a paying fan can have no baseline expectations? That they are owed nothing?
"Gee. I sure hope they play more than one song!"
"Yeah. And we're in the front row. I sure hope they don't throw their feces at us!"
"Yeah. Remember the last time we were in the front row? Remember when Pete took one of those big boogers from his big nose and flicked it on Johnny?"
If it goes back to expectations... then why compare a Who concert in 2013, when they are 100 years old, to a punk rock show filled with raving lunatics with spiked faces thrashing about madly? This comparison is ridiculous. The dad never took his daughter to a punk rock show. He took her to a show where the average age of the audience was 40+ and the performers are considered legends.
Bottom line:
1. The dad took his daughter to a rock concert and, admittedly it's a little early in her life, is trying to introduce her to one of life's greatest gifts- music. Good move.
2. The dad should have explained to his daughter that the sign was inappropriate because... oh... say... when you hold it up at the concert- it interferes with people's view. Not doing so= poor move.
3. Peter is unable to get past some benign sign that hardly signifies offensiveness. He chooses to berate the father and daughter. What if the father had a terminal illness and was spending the last moments of his life in every capacity he might before he exited the earth? He can hardly be expected to know the circumstances of the two at the show, yet you think he's within his right to shit all over them because he feels like doing so? This was a really really poor move.
You seem to want to give him full marks for being a performer. Fair enough. But being a performer or artist doesn't remove you from acting like a decent human being. In my books... attempting to access child pornography and berating a fan at a concert because his daughter is holding a sign up qualifies you as an asshole.
You think he was justified in attacking the two. I don't. Fair enough. We can agree to disagree on this one.
I guess I have a different perspective for how I feel I should be treated at a concert.
We'll agree to disagree on this, but you do tend to focus on Pete singling out the kid when in reality, he was focusing on the father.
There are no rules at concerts, and we are all at the mercy of the ones on stage. When they're in a shitty mood, it's the audience who hears about it, it's just the way it goes. Yes, he didn't have to be a dick, but the father could certainly have known better as well.
Post edited by Jeanwah on
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,083
I liked to hear what The Who Princess has to say on this matter. Now this kind of stuff would never happen at a RUSH concert. In fact of the 46 times I've seen the band I've never ever heard Geddy Lee curse. It's always safe to take daughter who first saw them at 7, all she needs are ear plugs.
Beyond what I've said there, this seems to have turned into a why-Pete-Townsend-is-an-asshole-and-I-always-knew-he-was-guilty rant and I've had more than enough of those conversations.
Well said posts, Who Princess.
It really is amazing what fans expect out of their favorite musicians. I say, get a baby sitter, go to the show, hope it's a good one, feel lucky you got to be there in the first place, respect the act and those around you and if you can't do any of that, stay home and listen to the records.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
I liked to hear what The Who Princess has to say on this matter. Now this kind of stuff would never happen at a RUSH concert. In fact of the 46 times I've seen the band I've never ever heard Geddy Lee curse. It's always safe to take daughter who first saw them at 7, all she needs are ear plugs.
Beyond what I've said there, this seems to have turned into a why-Pete-Townsend-is-an-asshole-and-I-always-knew-he-was-guilty rant and I've had more than enough of those conversations.
Well said posts, Who Princess.
It really is amazing what fans expect out of their favorite musicians. I say, get a baby sitter, go to the show, hope it's a good one, feel lucky you got to be there in the first place, respect the act and those around you and if you can't do any of that, stay home and listen to the records.
Good advice Brian. Perhaps we should stop expecting anything from those we admire and look up to, because that expectation, if not carried through, always brings disappointment.
0
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,083
Good advice Brian. Perhaps we should stop expecting anything from those we admire and look up to, because that expectation, if not carried through, always brings disappointment.
So true, Jeanwah. I saw Dizzy Gilliespie once a year or two before he died. Someone nearby commented on how he "just didn't have it anymore". I wanted to tell them they should just be thankful he's still around and feel lucky to get to see him at all. Actually I wanted to say more than that but realized it might be better if I keep those thoughts to myself!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
i was there 2 rows directly in front of this clown/dad
leave your 7 year old at home is all i have to say about it
Laugh and say I'm green
I've seen things you'll never see.
Talk behind my back
But I'm off the beaten track.
I'll take on anyone
Ain't scared of a bloody nose,
Drink till I drop down
With one eye on my clothes.
What is it? I'll take it.
Who is she? I'll rape it.
Got a bet there? I'll meet it.
Getting High? You can't beat it.
Doctor Jimmy and mister Jim
When I'm pilled you don't notice him,
He only comes out when I drink my gin.
You say she's a virgin.
I'm gonna be the first in.
Her fellah's gonna kill me?
Oh fucking will he.
I'm seeing double
But don't miss me if you can.
There's gonna be trouble
When she choses her man.
What is it? [etc.]
Doctor Jimmy and mister Jim etc.
Is it me? For a moment
The stars are falling.
The heat is rising
The past is calling.
I'm going back soon
Home to get the baboon.
Who cut up my eye,
Messed up my Levis.
I'm feeling restless
Bring another score around
Maybe something stronger
Could really hold me down.
Using your child as a prop.
Where have I heard of this behavior before?
oh i get this totally, and bravo speedy!!
after it went down in hamilton the dad and daughter went back to their seats they sat down for the rest of the show sulking like their lives were over and someone kicked their puppy...then they left 2 songs before the end of the show...
and i'm bringing my 6 year old, cute as a button, niece, to the next PJ show cause i want a tambourine
Using your child as a prop.
Where have I heard of this behavior before?
oh i get this totally, and bravo speedy!!
after it went down in hamilton the dad and daughter went back to their seats they sat down for the rest of the show sulking like their lives were over and someone kicked their puppy...then they left 2 songs before the end of the show...
and i'm bringing my 6 year old, cute as a button, niece, to the next PJ show cause i want a tambourine
I'm not saying the guy used good judgement... but how is the scenario you describe a great thing?
There are way more offensive concert behaviours to single out and attack than some guy and his daughter holding a sign.
So he told this kids father to F-off ... Hardly worthy of him running to the press about. As for those judging his past based on 1 incident ... Get real ... Do the proper research and reading on the subject ...
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
I've always found The Who to be overrated. I like a few songs and I respect Pete Townshend as a songwriter, but after this and the whole child porn thing this guy sickens me.
Hamilton, ON 9/13/2005
Albany NY 5/12/2006
Mansfield, MA 6/28/2008
Buffalo, NY 5/10/2010
Hamilton, ON 9/15/2011
Buffalo, NY 10/12/2013
Although he explained to her that the band doesn’t do that anymore, she still made the sign in hopes that it would cause a return to Townshend’s old stage antics.
Doesn't sound like dad put the girl up to it. Sounds like it was her idea. Too bad Pete could have just made a joke out of it. A sad reminder that some of our heroes have character flaws that are not always admirable. On the other hand, I'm sure artists like Townshend get awfully tired of people wanting them to act like they're still in their twenties.
Actually there's nothing totally new about this though. I saw The Who at the San Jose Civic Auditorium in (I believe it was) 1968. Most of us in the crowd expect Pete to dutifully smash his guitar. I guess it didn't occur to some of us that at that time even The Who couldn't afford to buy new gear for every show. He did toss it around a bit and bumped it on the floor a few times but that was it. No complaints though (now or then)-- it was a GREAT show!
how about dad excercising better judgement for his daughter. I wonder if she was wearing hearing protection?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Dad getting his 15 minutes of fame by, yes, using his daughter (and maybe 'covering up' some embarrassement?)
"At the show, towards the end of the band's first set when they played their famous Quadrophenia record, Costello hoisted his daughter on his shoulders and they walked towards the stage. (ie the 'using' the daughter - wouldn't have done that without her)A couple in the fourth row who thought the sign was cute offered the family their seats, he said. (Look at that - someone got 'taken in' by the 'cute' kid on daddy's shoulders)
Then Townshend dropped what appeared to be the F-bomb to the sound of cheers and applause(oh dear... could have rubbed dad the wrong way).
"It all happened so quickly," Costello said. "Some people have explained that (Townshend) had thought that I was using her (to get up to the front) (Yep)and I want to make it perfectly clear that is not what happened at all (of course not....)and I support my daughter in what she wants to do."
Furthermore, he says that no one speaks to his daughter like that. Well... Pete was clearly addressing him and not his daughter.
Townsend is no saint, far from that, but the Dad really lacked judgement here. But hey... the guy tried and it backfired. So be it.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Ed lashed out at a girl at a solo show in Chicago a few years ago because she didn't agree with his politics (or didn't want to hear about them). I felt bad for her for (assuming) being a huge fan and have your idle single you out with the "F" word.
Ed lashed out at a girl at a solo show in Chicago a few years ago because she didn't agree with his politics (or didn't want to hear about them). I felt bad for her for (assuming) being a huge fan and have your idle single you out with the "F" word.
Ed lashed out at a girl at a solo show in Chicago a few years ago because she didn't agree with his politics (or didn't want to hear about them). I felt bad for her for (assuming) being a huge fan and have your idle single you out with the "F" word.
What did she say or do to get him to lash out?
He was talking politics in between songs and I think she yelled at him to shut up and Ed gave a very directed 'Eff You and a 30 second dressing down.
I think Ed realized he exploded rather harshly and gave a semi-apology half-way though, but he was pretty worked up. I just remember being thankful I wasn't in her shoes.
This was in '08 right before the elections. Sean Penn was at the show ... I can only imagine that led to more politics being involved then usual.
how about dad excercising better judgement for his daughter. I wonder if she was wearing hearing protection?
indeed! the dad should not be taking his little kid to this show 5:15 has some lyrics and a chorus that is not for 7year olds
leave your kid at home i say.
and to answer your question...yes she had ear muffs on...and they looked like good ones to me
Using your child as a prop.
Where have I heard of this behavior before?
oh i get this totally, and bravo speedy!!
after it went down in hamilton the dad and daughter went back to their seats they sat down for the rest of the show sulking like their lives were over and someone kicked their puppy...then they left 2 songs before the end of the show...
and i'm bringing my 6 year old, cute as a button, niece, to the next PJ show cause i want a tambourine
I'm not saying the guy used good judgement... but how is the scenario you describe a great thing?
There are way more offensive concert behaviours to single out and attack than some guy and his daughter holding a sign.
are you saying that I SAID it was a "great thing" ?
show me where i said that.
Ed lashed out at a girl at a solo show in Chicago a few years ago because she didn't agree with his politics (or didn't want to hear about them). I felt bad for her for (assuming) being a huge fan and have your idle single you out with the "F" word.
What did she say or do to get him to lash out?
He was talking politics in between songs and I think she yelled at him to shut up and Ed gave a very directed 'Eff You and a 30 second dressing down.
I think Ed realized he exploded rather harshly and gave a semi-apology half-way though, but he was pretty worked up. I just remember being thankful I wasn't in her shoes.
This was in '08 right before the elections. Sean Penn was at the show ... I can only imagine that led to more politics being involved then usual.
This is the thing. The one with the microphone has the floor. Where does any audience member feel that they can tell the one holding the microphone to shut up? How did she think he would respond to her telling him to shut up?
This is the thing. The one with the microphone has the floor. Where does any audience member feel that they can tell the one holding the microphone to shut up? How did she think he would respond to her telling him to shut up?
Good question ... I don't know? If you pay to see a music show and the act decides to do magic tricks in between songs, does the payer have the right to vocally demand music be played?
I just kind of grind through it whether I agree or not. Politics can make me feel uncomfortable in large groups and create a weird vibe.
are you saying that I SAID it was a "great thing" ?
show me where i said that.
I'm not saying you did. I realize it might have come across that way.
What some are forgetting about is that regardless of whether or not the dad needed to be addressed the way he was, there was a little girl there that was affected as well.
I don't do Facebook but as of yesterday, in what I'd like to hope is the final word on this, the dad has posted that actually the daughter didn't pick up on the insult (I'm guessing that 7 year olds typically don't read lips) and that she had a good time at the show. He now regrets putting the story out on the internet. He also says that one newspaper ran the story without his permission.
Apparently this information is only on his Facebook page; none of the newspapers who originally reported the story have written a follow up.
Ed lashed out at a girl at a solo show in Chicago a few years ago because she didn't agree with his politics (or didn't want to hear about them). I felt bad for her for (assuming) being a huge fan and have your idle single you out with the "F" word.
What did she say or do to get him to lash out?
He was talking politics in between songs and I think she yelled at him to shut up and Ed gave a very directed 'Eff You and a 30 second dressing down.
I think Ed realized he exploded rather harshly and gave a semi-apology half-way though, but he was pretty worked up. I just remember being thankful I wasn't in her shoes.
This was in '08 right before the elections. Sean Penn was at the show ... I can only imagine that led to more politics being involved then usual.
Look if you are in the audience you have ZERO right to say something like that. I don't care what you think of his political view. Shut up and listen or leave. I wouldn't go see Ted Nugent and then tell him to shut up when he calls Hillary Clinton a C#@t. If you want to see Ed or PJ you better be ready to hear some liberal political things come out of his mouth, deal with it or don't go.
Who brings their fucking little kid to a concert to get attention for themself?
Did the daughter make the sign and want to see Pete smash a guitar... or did the DAD want it?
...
And yeah... I've seen it at other shows... there parents will take their kids and hold them up to get attention. Have your kids hold up a sign asking McCready to give them a guitar pick... or Dave Grohl to sign an autograph. The kid doesn't want that shit... the fucking parent does.
Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
Hail, Hail!!!
Comments
But the article says it was the little girl's idea to make & take & hold the sign & for it to say what it did despite the dad telling her that guitar smashing is a thing of the past. I mean, in my opinion, the dad could have put his foot down more if he wanted to, but I don't think that this is an adult "using children for their own pursposes" instance, ya know?
(I also have come to distrust what articles - and their authors - offer up as truth)
Beyond what I've said there, this seems to have turned into a why-Pete-Townsend-is-an-asshole-and-I-always-knew-he-was-guilty rant and I've had more than enough of those conversations.
We'll agree to disagree on this, but you do tend to focus on Pete singling out the kid when in reality, he was focusing on the father.
There are no rules at concerts, and we are all at the mercy of the ones on stage. When they're in a shitty mood, it's the audience who hears about it, it's just the way it goes. Yes, he didn't have to be a dick, but the father could certainly have known better as well.
It really is amazing what fans expect out of their favorite musicians. I say, get a baby sitter, go to the show, hope it's a good one, feel lucky you got to be there in the first place, respect the act and those around you and if you can't do any of that, stay home and listen to the records.
Good advice Brian. Perhaps we should stop expecting anything from those we admire and look up to, because that expectation, if not carried through, always brings disappointment.
So true, Jeanwah. I saw Dizzy Gilliespie once a year or two before he died. Someone nearby commented on how he "just didn't have it anymore". I wanted to tell them they should just be thankful he's still around and feel lucky to get to see him at all. Actually I wanted to say more than that but realized it might be better if I keep those thoughts to myself!
leave your 7 year old at home is all i have to say about it
Laugh and say I'm green
I've seen things you'll never see.
Talk behind my back
But I'm off the beaten track.
I'll take on anyone
Ain't scared of a bloody nose,
Drink till I drop down
With one eye on my clothes.
What is it? I'll take it.
Who is she? I'll rape it.
Got a bet there? I'll meet it.
Getting High? You can't beat it.
Doctor Jimmy and mister Jim
When I'm pilled you don't notice him,
He only comes out when I drink my gin.
You say she's a virgin.
I'm gonna be the first in.
Her fellah's gonna kill me?
Oh fucking will he.
I'm seeing double
But don't miss me if you can.
There's gonna be trouble
When she choses her man.
What is it? [etc.]
Doctor Jimmy and mister Jim etc.
Is it me? For a moment
The stars are falling.
The heat is rising
The past is calling.
I'm going back soon
Home to get the baboon.
Who cut up my eye,
Messed up my Levis.
I'm feeling restless
Bring another score around
Maybe something stronger
Could really hold me down.
oh i get this totally, and bravo speedy!!
after it went down in hamilton the dad and daughter went back to their seats they sat down for the rest of the show sulking like their lives were over and someone kicked their puppy...then they left 2 songs before the end of the show...
and i'm bringing my 6 year old, cute as a button, niece, to the next PJ show cause i want a tambourine
I'm not saying the guy used good judgement... but how is the scenario you describe a great thing?
There are way more offensive concert behaviours to single out and attack than some guy and his daughter holding a sign.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Albany NY 5/12/2006
Mansfield, MA 6/28/2008
Buffalo, NY 5/10/2010
Hamilton, ON 9/15/2011
Buffalo, NY 10/12/2013
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Dad getting his 15 minutes of fame by, yes, using his daughter (and maybe 'covering up' some embarrassement?)
"At the show, towards the end of the band's first set when they played their famous Quadrophenia record, Costello hoisted his daughter on his shoulders and they walked towards the stage. (ie the 'using' the daughter - wouldn't have done that without her)A couple in the fourth row who thought the sign was cute offered the family their seats, he said. (Look at that - someone got 'taken in' by the 'cute' kid on daddy's shoulders)
Then Townshend dropped what appeared to be the F-bomb to the sound of cheers and applause (oh dear... could have rubbed dad the wrong way).
"It all happened so quickly," Costello said. "Some people have explained that (Townshend) had thought that I was using her (to get up to the front) (Yep)and I want to make it perfectly clear that is not what happened at all (of course not....)and I support my daughter in what she wants to do."
Furthermore, he says that no one speaks to his daughter like that. Well... Pete was clearly addressing him and not his daughter.
Townsend is no saint, far from that, but the Dad really lacked judgement here. But hey... the guy tried and it backfired. So be it.
Again... a storm in a teacup.
too bad the way that all turned out
What do the faithful have to say about Ed and his "mosquito bites" comment to a female fan at that show many years ago?
Saying fuck off is a bit different than a verbal personal attack
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
HA - first thing I thought of was EV/PJ shows.
SHOW COUNT: (159) 1990's=3, 2000's=53, 2010/20's=103, US=118, CAN=15, Europe=20 ,New Zealand=2, Australia=2
Mexico=1, Colombia=1
Upcoming: Aucklandx2, Gold Coast, Melbournex2
What did she say or do to get him to lash out?
I think Ed realized he exploded rather harshly and gave a semi-apology half-way though, but he was pretty worked up. I just remember being thankful I wasn't in her shoes.
This was in '08 right before the elections. Sean Penn was at the show ... I can only imagine that led to more politics being involved then usual.
indeed! the dad should not be taking his little kid to this show
5:15 has some lyrics and a chorus that is not for 7year olds
leave your kid at home i say.
and to answer your question...yes she had ear muffs on...and they looked like good ones to me
are you saying that I SAID it was a "great thing" ?
show me where i said that.
This is the thing. The one with the microphone has the floor. Where does any audience member feel that they can tell the one holding the microphone to shut up? How did she think he would respond to her telling him to shut up?
I just kind of grind through it whether I agree or not. Politics can make me feel uncomfortable in large groups and create a weird vibe.
I'm not saying you did. I realize it might have come across that way.
What some are forgetting about is that regardless of whether or not the dad needed to be addressed the way he was, there was a little girl there that was affected as well.
I feel badly for her.
Apparently this information is only on his Facebook page; none of the newspapers who originally reported the story have written a follow up.
Look if you are in the audience you have ZERO right to say something like that. I don't care what you think of his political view. Shut up and listen or leave. I wouldn't go see Ted Nugent and then tell him to shut up when he calls Hillary Clinton a C#@t. If you want to see Ed or PJ you better be ready to hear some liberal political things come out of his mouth, deal with it or don't go.
Did the daughter make the sign and want to see Pete smash a guitar... or did the DAD want it?
...
And yeah... I've seen it at other shows... there parents will take their kids and hold them up to get attention. Have your kids hold up a sign asking McCready to give them a guitar pick... or Dave Grohl to sign an autograph. The kid doesn't want that shit... the fucking parent does.
Hail, Hail!!!