Is peace possible and if so, how do we achieve it?

brianlux

polaris_x wrote:

i pose this out there ...

if we didn't have the military industrial complex and the US did not engage in a foreign policy of economic imperialism and war profiteering ... and the conviction that was spent on securing oil was spent on fortifying the UN - would we not have peace now?

Possibly. One thing for sure-- this kind of thinking makes more sense that saying "peace isn't possible". I believe in your kind of thinking here polaris_x. Why say anything is impossible? It's easy to be pessimistic but anything is possible... if we want it enough. Peace is possible.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

I think it is a fair statement to say that human beings have 'violent' characteristics that are inherent to them. People are not truly opposed to violence: this is why today, we seem to be somewhat fascinated with stories of violence and death; MMA; coming across a car accident scene; etc.

Just as the sight of a beautiful woman attracts the eyes of many men who cannot resist looking and desiring to some degree... there are traits within humans that are inherent, natural, and very powerful. Dismissing these would be naive.

Granted, many people recognize such 'human' traist and fight the urges within them to behold or entertain such imagery in pursuit of a more noble existence, but I think this alludes to my point: exercising such 'control' is tantamount to resisting instincts- they are still there.

Greed, or the urge to covet, is a trait within us as well.

If one could accept the aforementioned, then one could surmise that war is not 'below' us and somewhat 'typical' given our animalistic traits and behaviours. I mean, when in the history of man has violence at all levels not been rampant?

DriftingByTheStorm

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

selfishness is inherent in people, and greed is as well.

I think this is somewhat myopic, or misguided.

Selfishness and greed are inherent in the lower emotional nature and the lower mind.
But neither are present in the higher mind ... that part of the mental capacity that has a direct link with the true self.

Man must go through the arduous process of separating his lower mind (personality) from, and then subjugating it to his higher mind. This is, in fact, what all of the great religious books of the world are speaking about -- the process whereby man transcends his own personal desires, and begins to focus solely on the good of the whole. Man must recognize the one life, actively pursue integration with that life, and then focus on service to that life.

brianlux

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I think it is a fair statement to say that human beings have 'violent' characteristics that are inherent to them. People are not truly opposed to violence: this is why today, we seem to be somewhat fascinated with stories of violence and death; MMA; coming across a car accident scene; etc.

Just as the sight of a beautiful woman attracts the eyes of many men who cannot resist looking and desiring to some degree... there are traits within humans that are inherent, natural, and very powerful. Dismissing these would be naive.

Granted, many people recognize such 'human' traist and fight the urges within them to behold or entertain such imagery in pursuit of a more noble existence, but I think this alludes to my point: exercising such 'control' is tantamount to resisting instincts- they are still there.

Greed, or the urge to covet, is a trait within us as well.

If one could accept the aforementioned, then one could surmise that war is not 'below' us and somewhat 'typical' given our animalistic traits and behaviours. I mean, when in the history of man has violence at all levels not been rampant?

As I said earlier, Japan had a period of 250 of peace. No war for 250 years!

I don't deny our impulses but I do believe we are capable of controlling them. Who among us has not harbored animosity toward someone and said something like "OOH, I could just strangle that guy!" But who among us has actually strangled someone? How many of you have killed other humans? What percentage of humans are murderous? Not many. We can overcome destructive tendencies if we use this huge brain that evolved in us. And our hearts.

Jeanwah

Peace is possible but we have to start with ourselves first. Individually, people are plagued with stress, self-doubt, cynicism, refusal to take responsibility for one's own actions, and a biggie: need for competition. If there's any place to start, it's within. Baby steps, like hedonist said, but we can't look at the big picture on this if we don't start with ourselves. Cooperation has to trump competition. We have to stop looking at each other and ourselves as an opponent and see each other as equals and friends. In a country that worships athletics and competition, there will never be peace. So working on peace on a small scale, working with ourselves first, then building to our local communities is the way to do it.

As far as Japan goes, they've got this cooperation thing going already. They were there for each other after the earthquake, they communed and picked up the pieces together rather than loiter and riot their country away, which is something the U.S. would do. We have a lot to learn from them on how to cooperate.

gimmesometruth27

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

selfishness is inherent in people, and greed is as well.

I think this is somewhat myopic, or misguided.

Selfishness and greed are inherent in the lower emotional nature and the lower mind.
But neither are present in the higher mind ... that part of the mental capacity that has a direct link with the true self.

Man must go through the arduous process of separating his lower mind (personality) from, and then subjugating it to his higher mind. This is, in fact, what all of the great religious books of the world are speaking about -- the process whereby man transcends his own personal desires, and begins to focus solely on the good of the whole. Man must recognize the one life, actively pursue integration with that life, and then focus on service to that life.

true or false. 99% of people do things for the betterment of themselves or their circumstances, and not to the detriment of themselves?

self preservation is an instinct.

pj1981

There's a real grass roots movement to help on an everyday level doing and being nice, then paying it forward.
Thoughtfulness is a way of life.

Jeanwah

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

selfishness is inherent in people, and greed is as well.

I think this is somewhat myopic, or misguided.

Selfishness and greed are inherent in the lower emotional nature and the lower mind.
But neither are present in the higher mind ... that part of the mental capacity that has a direct link with the true self.

Man must go through the arduous process of separating his lower mind (personality) from, and then subjugating it to his higher mind. This is, in fact, what all of the great religious books of the world are speaking about -- the process whereby man transcends his own personal desires, and begins to focus solely on the good of the whole. Man must recognize the one life, actively pursue integration with that life, and then focus on service to that life.

The way to get to the true self is through meditation and self-evaluation. If more people actually practiced meditation, it would definitely be a more peaceful world.

hedonist

pj1981 wrote:

There's a real grass roots movement to help on an everyday level doing and being nice, then paying it forward.
Thoughtfulness is a way of life.

I like this thought, but as to it being a grass-roots deal? Not sure, and apologies if we're just talking semantics here - but this is something I was taught (and shown) from the time I was a kid.

But yes...it IS a way of life. Or at least, should be, and not a movement.

Don't we learn these basics in kindergarten?

JonnyPistachio

brianlux wrote:

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

I think it is a fair statement to say that human beings have 'violent' characteristics that are inherent to them. People are not truly opposed to violence: this is why today, we seem to be somewhat fascinated with stories of violence and death; MMA; coming across a car accident scene; etc.

Just as the sight of a beautiful woman attracts the eyes of many men who cannot resist looking and desiring to some degree... there are traits within humans that are inherent, natural, and very powerful. Dismissing these would be naive.

Granted, many people recognize such 'human' traist and fight the urges within them to behold or entertain such imagery in pursuit of a more noble existence, but I think this alludes to my point: exercising such 'control' is tantamount to resisting instincts- they are still there.

Greed, or the urge to covet, is a trait within us as well.

If one could accept the aforementioned, then one could surmise that war is not 'below' us and somewhat 'typical' given our animalistic traits and behaviours. I mean, when in the history of man has violence at all levels not been rampant?

As I said earlier, Japan had a period of 250 of peace. No war for 250 years!

I don't deny our impulses but I do believe we are capable of controlling them. Who among us has not harbored animosity toward someone and said something like "OOH, I could just strangle that guy!" But who among us has actually strangled someone? How many of you have killed other humans? What percentage of humans are murderous? Not many. We can overcome destructive tendencies if we use this huge brain that evolved in us. And our hearts.

Good points Brian, my point earlier was that violence is easier when its not personalized, when it is distant. When we're really faced with the reality, most of us would likely concede. I like the examples often given in the death penalty threads... how many who are advocates of the DP would even be able to pull the switch or drop the guillotine? Not many. Hopefully we can all get back to that, and evolve in our hearts and brains as you suggested.

pj1981

hedonist wrote:

pj1981 wrote:

There's a real grass roots movement to help on an everyday level doing and being nice, then paying it forward.
Thoughtfulness is a way of life.

I like this thought, but as to it being a grass-roots deal? Not sure, and apologies if we're just talking semantics here - but this is something I was taught (and shown) from the time I was a kid.

But yes...it IS a way of life. Or at least, should be, and not a movement.

Don't we learn these basics in kindergarten?

By grass roots movement I was addressing a growing trend of getting people aware to be
thoughtful, to be nice, to care in the smallest everyday interaction.
There are movements across the country of reaching out and the media is there to spread the
word. It's the wake up call people need, this the movement.
And what's cool is each one of us plays a role and it spreads quickly.

brianlux

pj1981 wrote:

hedonist wrote:

pj1981 wrote:

There's a real grass roots movement to help on an everyday level doing and being nice, then paying it forward.
Thoughtfulness is a way of life.

I like this thought, but as to it being a grass-roots deal? Not sure, and apologies if we're just talking semantics here - but this is something I was taught (and shown) from the time I was a kid.

But yes...it IS a way of life. Or at least, should be, and not a movement.

Don't we learn these basics in kindergarten?

By grass roots movement I was addressing a growing trend of getting people aware to be
thoughtful, to be nice, to care in the smallest everyday interaction.
There are movements across the country of reaching out and the media is there to spread the
word. It's the wake up call people need, this the movement.
And what's cool is each one of us plays a role and it spreads quickly.

I like this. Let's be a part of that movement.

The Peace Train!

peacefrompaul

brianlux wrote:

I like this. Let's be a part of that movement.

The Peace Train!

Cue Cat Stevens

Hugh Freaking Dillon

polaris_x wrote:

i pose this out there ...

if we didn't have the military industrial complex and the US did not engage in a foreign policy of economic imperialism and war profiteering ... and the conviction that was spent on securing oil was spent on fortifying the UN - would we not have peace now?

not world peace.

hedonist

peacefrompaul wrote:

brianlux wrote:

I like this. Let's be a part of that movement.

The Peace Train!

Cue Cat Stevens

Oooh ahh, eeey ahh eeey ahh!

pj1981, not a whole lot of things these days are positive AND infectious...so I hear ya

brianlux

peacefrompaul wrote:

brianlux wrote:

I like this. Let's be a part of that movement.

The Peace Train!

Cue Cat Stevens

Yes! Followed by:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL7Iyhqnbwg

DriftingByTheStorm

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

selfishness is inherent in people, and greed is as well.

I think this is somewhat myopic, or misguided.

Selfishness and greed are inherent in the lower emotional nature and the lower mind.
But neither are present in the higher mind ... that part of the mental capacity that has a direct link with the true self.

Man must go through the arduous process of separating his lower mind (personality) from, and then subjugating it to his higher mind. This is, in fact, what all of the great religious books of the world are speaking about -- the process whereby man transcends his own personal desires, and begins to focus solely on the good of the whole. Man must recognize the one life, actively pursue integration with that life, and then focus on service to that life.

true or false. 99% of people do things for the betterment of themselves or their circumstances, and not to the detriment of themselves?

self preservation is an instinct.

Self-Betterment and Selfish-Greed are not indentical concepts. At all.
You can better your self and your condition, and do it with out infringing on the prospects of others. You can even better yourself and give *back* to others.

On the other hand, you can be selfish and greedy, and yet do nothing to actually better yourself.

You may claim I am arguing semantics. But you are the one who is either deliberately or accidentally confusing terms.

All life wants to live, yes. And most life wants to improve.
All life does not have to, and does not necessarily want to, impede on the lives of others to do so.
Have you ever met a Buddhist monk? (just for example)

even flow - question mark

Good luck for peace!

In the words of the wonderful Bob Marley:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch0X6FxoGTE

Until the philosophy which hold one race superior
And another
Inferior
Is finally
And permanently
Discredited
And abandoned -
Everywhere is war -
Me say war.

That until there no longer
First class and second class citizens of any nation
Until the colour of a man's skin
Is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes -
Me say war.

That until the basic human rights
Are equally guaranteed to all,
Without regard to race -
Dis a war.

That until that day
The dream of lasting peace,
World citizenship
Rule of international morality
Will remain in but a fleeting illusion to be pursued,
But never attained -
Now everywhere is war - war.

And until the ignoble and unhappy regimes
That hold our brothers in Angola,
In Mozambique,
South Africa
Sub-human bondage
Have been toppled,
Utterly destroyed -
Well, everywhere is war -
Me say war.

War in the east,
War in the west,
War up north,
War down south -
War - war -
Rumours of war.
And until that day,
The African continent
Will not know peace,
We Africans will fight - we find it necessary -
And we know we shall win
As we are confident
In the victory

Of good over evil -
Good over evil, yeah!
Good over evil -
Good over evil, yeah!
Good over evil -

mikepegg44

Interesting discussion.


We can minimize the amount of fighting, but unfortunately I fear that if WW I and the devastation and immense loss of life couldn't cure mankind of war, nothing ever will.

Depends on what kind of peace you want really...world peace? I doubt it. Lasting meaningful peace for most of the world? probably, will take some drastic action on the part of the more imperialistic countries to reverse course and play nice. Elimination of tribal, ethnic, and racial hatred? not in my or anyone here's lifetime.

World peace is not impossible Brian, just not probable.

polaris_x

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

polaris_x wrote:

i pose this out there ...

if we didn't have the military industrial complex and the US did not engage in a foreign policy of economic imperialism and war profiteering ... and the conviction that was spent on securing oil was spent on fortifying the UN - would we not have peace now?

not world peace.

care to elaborate? ... a functioning UN with a security council that believed in peace? ... where would we have major conflicts?