Alcoholism - It Kills The Family

Hugh Freaking DillonHugh Freaking Dillon Posts: 14,010
edited January 2013 in A Moving Train
My brother in law has been going downhill for a few years now. It is well known that he has some deep seeded issues from his childhood that her refuses to deal with, and this has led to his increasing use of alcohol. My sister has kicked him out a few times, but she clearly has no legal right to do so since he isn't actually abusing anyone in the home, she or their 4 year old son. If she changes the locks, she's actually breaking the law. If she leaves with her son, she forfeits all rights to the home and its contents, basically handing him $200,000+. When she's been the sole breadwinner since he keeps quitting/getting fired from jobs and only using his money for booze and cigarettes. He's a fucking mess.

Well yesterday it all came to a head. It was their son's 4th birthday. Took him to this indoor kids playpark and everyone (including my daughters and my parents) all having a blast. He kept going "out for a smoke" and when he came back he was clearly getting more and more inebriated.

He went to put on his jacket as he wanted to "help" us get the gifts out to the car, which my sister and I and my Dad were taking care of. Fucking loser could barely stand in the lobby getting his jacket on.

We got it all in van, and he continued on outside when he took the bottle of vodka from his coat and was about to take a swig, IN THE LOBBY OF THIS KID PARK. My sister told him to get the fuck out and leave. He started to leave but then fell face first and couldn't get up. His foot was caught in the door. He looked like a pathetic injured animal writhing on the ground. I stood there not knowing what to do for a moment, almost wanting him to suffer there on the cold ground so maybe it would embarrass him a bit. I saw all the other children looking and asking their parents questions, so I went outside and pulled the fucker up. His keys were on the ground, so I quickly scooped them up. I asked him what he was doing, and he mumbled "going to fight". I said "fight who?". "I don't know, anyone".

My Dad ended up taking him home and in the car my brother in law mumbled and let it slip that he HAD A GUN IN THE HOUSE, he insisted "only for protection". When my sister finally came home (she took her son to my parents-this has become somewhat normal over the past couple years), she and my Dad called the cops to come find the gun. They couldn't find it, and he claimed to the cops it was a BB gun. Then the cops left, and he told my sister she'd "never find it".

To anyone who says this is a disease, I call fucking bullshit. My Mom had an alcoholic father, and she's just fine. Two of her siblings are/were alcoholics, but then why did she and her other sibling not become one? I've never seen someone with cancer take a glass of it and drink it. I think calling it a disease is insulting to someone with an actual disease. I know tons of people who have alcoholics for parents, and they aren't. Predisposed? Like any parental behaviour, yeah, of course. That's why you see so many fat kids have fat parents. But a disease? NOPE.

I'm so fucking angry at him for ruining our family right now, I don't even care about HIM anymore. I've had countless discussions with him, trying to help. But it's clear now he doesn't want it. He's CHOOSING to remain in this state. I just want him out of our lives now. Go live in a ditch now for all I care. Just get the fuck out of your son's life, as your presence can only harm now.

He deserves so much better.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    wow hugh, i am so sorry to hear that :(

    alcoholism does kill families. addiction in general kills families.

    the guy obviously needs help.

    i do believe that addiction/alcoholism is genetic. my dad was a severe binge drinker, and as a result i binge drink too. i never drank in high school. maybe 3 times total, just a beer or two. i did not start hitting it hard until i got to college. then it was 4 nights a week for the first 2 years. i don't get to the point where i can't stand or shit like that, but just to the point where i will go out on the town and have 6 or 7 drinks instead of 2 or 3. i reach a state of euphoria or somethng where i just feel great. there is a little switch inside me that once it is turned on i have a hard time switching it off. i have learned to control it, but it is something that i have to be wary of sometimes. i have been a lot better about it the last 15 years or so, but there are still nights where i drink more than i should. mainly at my shows when i am extremely ecstatic, or when i am down about something.

    i hope everything works out for your family.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    My MIL who lives next door to us is an alcoholic. She also is in poor health, has had a quad bi-pass to her heart, is obese, and is agoraphobic (fear of leaving the house), so she sits on the couch every day, watching Fox News and drinks. From years of trying to help get her healthy, I know that you cannot help someone who doesn't want to help themselves. She is ready for her death-bed, regardless of the grand children's lives she would miss. There is nothing we can do, it's the life she wants to live. ...And believe me, we've tried.
  • Brutal. Like many if not all on here, I have a relative who has caused much pain among my family as well. It's sad, but at times his level of self-absorption infuriates me.

    I'm with you here though, Hugh. Labeling alcoholism as a disease might actually enable some people by not holding them fully accountable for their poor choices. I also agree that it would be pretty goofy for some drunkard to console some cancer patient saying something like, "I know your pain. I too have a disease that I must live with."

    The drunks that continue to make the choice to get shitfaced are ultimately doing exactly that- making a choice. An overweight person can look in the mirror and say to themselves, "Hey. This is going to be hard, but I have to do this. I have to stop eating at McDonalds and I have to start exercising. My health depends on it." A smoker can kick their habit. A drug addict can reform. And... the drunk can do it too... if they want to.

    I do understand that exercising the right choice and battling the demons that summon a hardened drunk to his vice is hard, but I tend to believe anyone is capable of overcoming their weakness with the right support and strategies: they have to want to change though.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • I have held a friend in my arms and hugged him as he foamed at the mouth while having a siezure. I didnt even call the ambulance....i continued to hug him and talk him through it. We were at a rave and I didnt want the ambulance coming. He could have died in my arms.

    Me and my friends almost overdosed on GHB in a public square for St. Patricks Day! More than once I have been over the edge on many different things.

    I grew up in a hippie family and seen hard core drinking and smoking my entire childhood. My family idolized partying! My mom smoked while holding me in her arm as a baby. Beer and alcohol was a major part of our lives. It definately had an effect on me for sure. My cousins all have been addicted and almost died on occassions.

    Looking at it from the outside in, now that I am sober and wiser, we were all idiots at some point in time of our lives. I have to forgive anyone and everyone under 30 immediately! If one is over 35 and still acts like a fool....then they probably just dont want it. Being sober is painful.....being high is easy! They seek an easier way out sometimes. Numbing the pains with something!

    I wish we all could do less consumption and embrace the goodness of the world. We act like fools and we take advantage of things and overlook the beauty of the world. We overlook relationships that mean something. We ruin relationships from our emptyness inside. Hughey is now giving up on his relationship with him....and probably best to do so. Life changes....people change....and nothing is a surprise anymore. I wish we all had more self control!

    I numb the pains with JESUS now! Go ahead and tell me that Jesus does not have power! I have seen it all and I have done alot!
    Theres no time like the present

    A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!

    All people need to do more on every level!
  • Brutal. Like many if not all on here, I have a relative who has caused much pain among my family as well. It's sad, but at times his level of self-absorption infuriates me.

    I'm with you here though, Hugh. Labeling alcoholism as a disease might actually enable some people by not holding them fully accountable for their poor choices. I also agree that it would be pretty goofy for some drunkard to console some cancer patient saying something like, "I know your pain. I too have a disease that I must live with."

    The drunks that continue to make the choice to get shitfaced are ultimately doing exactly that- making a choice. An overweight person can look in the mirror and say to themselves, "Hey. This is going to be hard, but I have to do this. I have to stop eating at McDonalds and I have to start exercising. My health depends on it." A smoker can kick their habit. A drug addict can reform. And... the drunk can do it too... if they want to.

    I do understand that exercising the right choice and battling the demons that summon a hardened drunk to his vice is hard, but I tend to believe anyone is capable of overcoming their weakness with the right support and strategies: they have to want to change though.

    and I don't think he wants to yet. I thought he had hit rock bottom when my sis kicked him out and he was living in a van and shitting in the street months ago.......you'd think that would have been lower than anyone expects their life to go, but apparently not.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,087
    Very sorry to hear about this, Hugh. I had a very difficult experience losing a close friend (an otherwise very sweet girl, M.) to alcoholism. It's the kind of thing that's very difficult to watch because it usually happens slowly over a long period of time. My biggest mistake with M. was thinking that because I had survived some close calls with prescription meds and alcohol that somehow I could use my experiences to help her. That was very faulty thinking on my part. We can't make people better. We can only make ourselves better. Good counseling- if he decides to seek that kind of help- will lead your brother to fine his own coping methods, to find his own solution.

    Your anger is understandable. Watching people ruin their lives and cause harm to others is painful. I hope your brother finds the wisdom and courage to take steps to get better.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
    Democracy Dies in Darkness- Washington Post













  • wow hugh, i am so sorry to hear that :(

    alcoholism does kill families. addiction in general kills families.

    the guy obviously needs help.

    i do believe that addiction/alcoholism is genetic. my dad was a severe binge drinker, and as a result i binge drink too. i never drank in high school. maybe 3 times total, just a beer or two. i did not start hitting it hard until i got to college. then it was 4 nights a week for the first 2 years. i don't get to the point where i can't stand or shit like that, but just to the point where i will go out on the town and have 6 or 7 drinks instead of 2 or 3. i reach a state of euphoria or somethng where i just feel great. there is a little switch inside me that once it is turned on i have a hard time switching it off. i have learned to control it, but it is something that i have to be wary of sometimes. i have been a lot better about it the last 15 years or so, but there are still nights where i drink more than i should. mainly at my shows when i am extremely ecstatic, or when i am down about something.

    i hope everything works out for your family.

    thanks. I don't dispute that alcoholism is genetic. everything can have a predisposition attached to it. but many people can and do overcome that. it's not uncontrollable like cancer or heart disease.

    I also sometimes struggle with how much I drink. I realized it was becoming a problem, and I turned it down a few notches. My life is much better after doing that. Is it easy? NOPE. But I made the choice to make my life and my family's life better. And it's not about being strong or weak. I'm not a strong person. I have a VERY addictive personality. But you make the choice that is better for your family, even if it's not better for you at the time.

    it is just unfathomable to me that someone would get pissed drunk at his son's 4th birthday party at a kid complex. just unfathomable.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    can your sister divorce him?

    the guy definitely has a problem and i'm not sure what can be done to save him ... perhaps an intervention of sorts? ... does anyone actually love him enough to go through something painful like that? ... i know it's not easy to empathize, especially when the consequences or so hurtful, but he is not well ... alcohol is but a coping mechanism and it's track record of destroying lives is pretty strong ...
  • mikepegg44mikepegg44 Posts: 3,353
    My brother in law has been going downhill for a few years now. It is well known that he has some deep seeded issues from his childhood that her refuses to deal with, and this has led to his increasing use of alcohol. My sister has kicked him out a few times, but she clearly has no legal right to do so since he isn't actually abusing anyone in the home, she or their 4 year old son. If she changes the locks, she's actually breaking the law. If she leaves with her son, she forfeits all rights to the home and its contents, basically handing him $200,000+. When she's been the sole breadwinner since he keeps quitting/getting fired from jobs and only using his money for booze and cigarettes. He's a fucking mess.

    Well yesterday it all came to a head. It was their son's 4th birthday. Took him to this indoor kids playpark and everyone (including my daughters and my parents) all having a blast. He kept going "out for a smoke" and when he came back he was clearly getting more and more inebriated.

    He went to put on his jacket as he wanted to "help" us get the gifts out to the car, which my sister and I and my Dad were taking care of. Fucking loser could barely stand in the lobby getting his jacket on.

    We got it all in van, and he continued on outside when he took the bottle of vodka from his coat and was about to take a swig, IN THE LOBBY OF THIS KID PARK. My sister told him to get the fuck out and leave. He started to leave but then fell face first and couldn't get up. His foot was caught in the door. He looked like a pathetic injured animal writhing on the ground. I stood there not knowing what to do for a moment, almost wanting him to suffer there on the cold ground so maybe it would embarrass him a bit. I saw all the other children looking and asking their parents questions, so I went outside and pulled the fucker up. His keys were on the ground, so I quickly scooped them up. I asked him what he was doing, and he mumbled "going to fight". I said "fight who?". "I don't know, anyone".

    My Dad ended up taking him home and in the car my brother in law mumbled and let it slip that he HAD A GUN IN THE HOUSE, he insisted "only for protection". When my sister finally came home (she took her son to my parents-this has become somewhat normal over the past couple years), she and my Dad called the cops to come find the gun. They couldn't find it, and he claimed to the cops it was a BB gun. Then the cops left, and he told my sister she'd "never find it".

    To anyone who says this is a disease, I call fucking bullshit. My Mom had an alcoholic father, and she's just fine. Two of her siblings are/were alcoholics, but then why did she and her other sibling not become one? I've never seen someone with cancer take a glass of it and drink it. I think calling it a disease is insulting to someone with an actual disease. I know tons of people who have alcoholics for parents, and they aren't. Predisposed? Like any parental behaviour, yeah, of course. That's why you see so many fat kids have fat parents. But a disease? NOPE.

    I'm so fucking angry at him for ruining our family right now, I don't even care about HIM anymore. I've had countless discussions with him, trying to help. But it's clear now he doesn't want it. He's CHOOSING to remain in this state. I just want him out of our lives now. Go live in a ditch now for all I care. Just get the fuck out of your son's life, as your presence can only harm now.

    He deserves so much better.


    I am sure anecdotes aren't what you want to hear right now, so all I will really say is hang in there. I want to say it will get easier, but it won't. Good luck, and know there are a community of strangers that will read this, feel for you, and I am sure have sent you many anonymous positive thoughts and prayers.
    that’s right! Can’t we all just get together and focus on our real enemies: monogamous gays and stem cells… - Ned Flanders
    It is terrifying when you are too stupid to know who is dumb
    - Joe Rogan
  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    I hope your nephew will get through this all OK. It sounds like he has some strong supportive forces around him in you and your sister, which he'll need - not just now but down the road as well.

    As for the disease side of it...I confess my knowledge in this realm is somewhat limited, but I look at it much as I do mental illness (and similar situations as well). Roll of the dice when mixing genes and variables, but I just can't discount it as NOT being a disease. It's easy - within your rights, even - to become angry, and to want that person to WANT to help themselves. Perhaps controllable to a degree but I'm not sure it can be forced upon the person needing that help.

    No answers, but I wish you all well. Hopefully if your brother-in-law hits rock bottom, it'll be the impetus to get clean, or at least take that first and most difficult step.
  • polaris_x wrote:
    can your sister divorce him?

    the guy definitely has a problem and i'm not sure what can be done to save him ... perhaps an intervention of sorts? ... does anyone actually love him enough to go through something painful like that? ... i know it's not easy to empathize, especially when the consequences or so hurtful, but he is not well ... alcohol is but a coping mechanism and it's track record of destroying lives is pretty strong ...

    yes, she can, but I guess she hasn't gotten to the point yet of completely giving up on him. I think she still has a shred of hope he'll get help and clean up. But that won't be the end of it. Alcohol isn't the root issue, he won't admit, and never has admitted, that he has issues with his family that have never been resolved. Both his parents are dead, his dad was a drunk and he didn't know him as his mom threw him out when he was very young. Hi mom died of cancer many years ago, before my sister and him were even married. And his real father figure, his uncle, died a few years back as well. He has a very large extended family, but they all might as well be strangers to him.

    I really also truly believe that he resents my sister very heavily about how she is so controlling towards him. She always was towards me growing up, so I can defintely understand that. Part of the reason we used to get along so well; we had that common ground.

    My sister is no angel. He has told us stories of how she has become so enraged at some points that she has been physically abusive towards him (broke his nose, a few of his ribs, etc). They have always been a very disfunctional couple. She goes to counselling, but she is the type that NEVER, and I mean NEVER admits any wrongdoing in anything, so that would be difficult to live with.

    Just get a fucking divorce then. Not long ago they actually said they were trying to have a second child. Thank god they didn't. that would have just made it exponentially worse.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • STAYSEASTAYSEA Posts: 3,814
    edited January 2013
    You have to cut all bonds with this person.
    Alcoholics don't need help, they don't want it.

    There is nothing you can do but encourage everyone to avoid contact.

    He must choose a sober path for himself on his own realizations.

    You have the BAKER Act. The Looney bin will take him away if he's a threat to you or himself. Video his drunk ass for proof, it helps the authority. If he Drives over to harass you or a loved one, Make sure you call the police dept, and report a possible drunk driver and his license plate (anonymously).

    All of these have worked for people with similar situations.

    You can't Help him.

    Only He can Help himself.

    My Uncle is sober after 45 years of booze. If anyone would have helped him, he says, It would not have mattered. He was hit by a car and left for dead. He woke up in a hospital after a few days. It really was his wake up call. The hospital had no one in the family to contact.

    He has been sober for 5 Years. But now his health is failing and he is on a long list for a liver transplant.
    I know he's on his way out. My family continues to love and support him since he became clean. It makes him cry sometimes, all the Love he feels from us. He can't even use aftershave or anything containing alcohol. He gets violently sick.

    If your sister every gets really scared, there are Women's shelters that are heavily guarded. The people working there give all the tools and information on how to deal with that. I lived across the street from one. It looked like a compound. Cameras everywhere. He won't even be able to find her or her son.
    Post edited by STAYSEA on
    image
  • STAYSEA wrote:
    You have to cut all bonds with this person.
    Alcoholics don't need help, they don't want it.

    There is nothing you can do but encourage everyone to avoid contact.

    He must choose a sober path for himself on his own realizations.

    You have the BAKER Act. The Looney bin will take him away if he's a threat to you or himself. Video his drunk ass for proof, it helps the authority. If he Drives over to harass you or a loved one, Make sure you call the police dept, and report a possible drunk driver and his license plate (anonymously).

    All of these have worked for people with similar situations.

    You can't Help him.

    Only He can Help himself.

    My Uncle is sober after 45 years of booze. If anyone would have helped him, he says, It would not have mattered. He was hit by a car and left for dead. He woke up in a hospital after a few days. It really was his wake up call. The hospital had no one in the family to contact.

    I know.
    Gimli 1993
    Fargo 2003
    Winnipeg 2005
    Winnipeg 2011
    St. Paul 2014
  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    yes, she can, but I guess she hasn't gotten to the point yet of completely giving up on him. I think she still has a shred of hope he'll get help and clean up. But that won't be the end of it. Alcohol isn't the root issue, he won't admit, and never has admitted, that he has issues with his family that have never been resolved. Both his parents are dead, his dad was a drunk and he didn't know him as his mom threw him out when he was very young. Hi mom died of cancer many years ago, before my sister and him were even married. And his real father figure, his uncle, died a few years back as well. He has a very large extended family, but they all might as well be strangers to him.

    I really also truly believe that he resents my sister very heavily about how she is so controlling towards him. She always was towards me growing up, so I can defintely understand that. Part of the reason we used to get along so well; we had that common ground.

    My sister is no angel. He has told us stories of how she has become so enraged at some points that she has been physically abusive towards him (broke his nose, a few of his ribs, etc). They have always been a very disfunctional couple. She goes to counselling, but she is the type that NEVER, and I mean NEVER admits any wrongdoing in anything, so that would be difficult to live with.

    Just get a fucking divorce then. Not long ago they actually said they were trying to have a second child. Thank god they didn't. that would have just made it exponentially worse.

    yikes ... sounds like he definitely needs help ... hopefully, there are people that love him enough to get him through it ... he doesn't sound like a bad person ... just one with a myriad of problems ... one compounding the other ...
  • USARAYUSARAY Posts: 517
    hewont get help untilrock bottom everyoneleaves him nowor youare just postponing the inevitablethe kids
    deservebetter ifhe gets wellhe will thankyou all andthen you will bea family
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