Mark my words. Quote my post. Gun crime at this time in NY state will be the exact same next year as it is this year. I'm actually embarrassed as a NYS resident that trash like this can get passed and people applaud it. Way to posture governor cuomo in your "big stand". This was nothing more than the democratic run government of NY helping cuomo build his resume for a presidential run. He can now say he was the first governor to make a stance against gun control when if fact he did nothing. Paper legislation that does zippo to actually help with the issue. :fp:
You are of course hoping you are wrong, right?
Because we all want to see gun related crime go down, right?
Because that is far more important than the politics, right?
Mark my words. Quote my post. Gun crime at this time in NY state will be the exact same next year as it is this year. I'm actually embarrassed as a NYS resident that trash like this can get passed and people applaud it. Way to posture governor cuomo in your "big stand". This was nothing more than the democratic run government of NY helping cuomo build his resume for a presidential run. He can now say he was the first governor to make a stance against gun control when if fact he did nothing. Paper legislation that does zippo to actually help with the issue. :fp:
Aww. Upset that Republicans don't run the NY state legislature aren't you? :(
More fascinating insight from you. Thanks a lot. You bring so much to the table.
How about going back to talk about your breakfast?
You strike me as someone who always feels they are the smartest person in the room. Since you think this law is the greatest thing since sliced bread please explain to me exactly how this law will do anything? Anyone, please chime in an educate me. Tell me exactly how this will reduce illegal gun violence in NYS.
From my point of view, not This Law, but The Law to put it frank does nothing. Zippo.
Just because you wrote something down of piece of paper doesn't control a human being's actions. At the end of the day we're all a bunch of animals, always have been, always will be.
More fascinating insight from you. Thanks a lot. You bring so much to the table.
How about going back to talk about your breakfast?
You strike me as someone who always feels they are the smartest person in the room. Since you think this law is the greatest thing since sliced bread please explain to me exactly how this law will do anything? Anyone, please chime in an educate me. Tell me exactly how this will reduce illegal gun violence in NYS.
Not particularly, at all actually. I never said it was the "greatest thing since sliced bread" in the least. But I don't see why any responsible gun owner would have a problem with it.
What I have seen is NYC decrease the size of the department over the past few years and get tougher on guns. We have also seen the murder rate decline dramatically. And yes, the NYPD is one of the most technolgically advanced departments in the world but if those trends are happening, why not?
You can point to Chicago and I certainly think that would be a very interesting case study into why two areas with strict laws are seeing the murder rates go in opposite directions, but something is working in NYC and you can't necessarily say that it isn't the gun laws because they are taking a lot of guns off the street and if that article is correct, only 10% of the 8,000 they have taken are illegally owned.
Didn't NYC just have an all time low in homocides and don't they also have pretty strict gun laws? Sure, that's not everything but to say nothing will or has changed is kind of bullshit because they city just saw it's best year in terms of murders.
This is where folks see statistics, have a conclusion, and link the 2.
This trend has been a consistent downward trend since Giuliani pumped up the NYPD (so to speak). So, while I am probably closer to your side on the view of the gun thing (though not exactly), the stats you quote actually support the "other side" of good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns if you look at the historical perspective.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
I don't see why any responsible gun owner would have a problem with it.
I'd be surprised too. So what, they have to reload a few more times? Its not much of an inconvenience.
I can see why they'd be pissed about a ban, but better background checks and reduced capacities is no big deal.
Mark my words. Quote my post. Gun crime at this time in NY state will be the exact same next year as it is this year. I'm actually embarrassed as a NYS resident that trash like this can get passed and people applaud it. Way to posture governor cuomo in your "big stand". This was nothing more than the democratic run government of NY helping cuomo build his resume for a presidential run. He can now say he was the first governor to make a stance against gun control when if fact he did nothing. Paper legislation that does zippo to actually help with the issue. :fp:
Aww. Upset that Republicans don't run the NY state legislature aren't you? :(
Don't they run the NY state Senate and overwhelmingly passed the law in the Senate?
Shows: 6.27.08 Hartford, CT/5.15.10 Hartford, CT/6.18.2011 Hartford, CT (EV Solo)/10.19.13 Brooklyn/10.25.13 Hartford
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
Didn't NYC just have an all time low in homocides and don't they also have pretty strict gun laws? Sure, that's not everything but to say nothing will or has changed is kind of bullshit because they city just saw it's best year in terms of murders.
This is where folks see statistics, have a conclusion, and link the 2.
This trend has been a consistent downward trend since Giuliani pumped up the NYPD (so to speak). So, while I am probably closer to your side on the view of the gun thing (though not exactly), the stats you quote actually support the "other side" of good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns if you look at the historical perspective.
Yes, I defintely get the NYPD aspect of it, which I think I addressed in the second point, but hasn't Bloomberg actually done the opposite and decreased the size of the force?
I don't disagree at all that there are plenty of other factors at play with what has happened in New York. The entire gentrification of Manhattan has also played a major factor over the past 20 years. But I don't think you can discount the philosophy on guns and the overall rates.
+...this is a great thread...
good that almost all here understand than need to be changes..
good job NY...
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Didn't NYC just have an all time low in homocides and don't they also have pretty strict gun laws? Sure, that's not everything but to say nothing will or has changed is kind of bullshit because they city just saw it's best year in terms of murders.
This is where folks see statistics, have a conclusion, and link the 2.
This trend has been a consistent downward trend since Giuliani pumped up the NYPD (so to speak). So, while I am probably closer to your side on the view of the gun thing (though not exactly), the stats you quote actually support the "other side" of good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns if you look at the historical perspective.
Didn't NYC just have an all time low in homocides and don't they also have pretty strict gun laws? Sure, that's not everything but to say nothing will or has changed is kind of bullshit because they city just saw it's best year in terms of murders.
This is where folks see statistics, have a conclusion, and link the 2.
This trend has been a consistent downward trend since Giuliani pumped up the NYPD (so to speak). So, while I am probably closer to your side on the view of the gun thing (though not exactly), the stats you quote actually support the "other side" of good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns if you look at the historical perspective.
Beat me to it.
You had plenty of opportunity to post it. You just posted "common sense"
Didn't NYC just have an all time low in homocides and don't they also have pretty strict gun laws? Sure, that's not everything but to say nothing will or has changed is kind of bullshit because they city just saw it's best year in terms of murders.
This is where folks see statistics, have a conclusion, and link the 2.
This trend has been a consistent downward trend since Giuliani pumped up the NYPD (so to speak). So, while I am probably closer to your side on the view of the gun thing (though not exactly), the stats you quote actually support the "other side" of good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns if you look at the historical perspective.
Yes, I defintely get the NYPD aspect of it, which I think I addressed in the second point, but hasn't Bloomberg actually done the opposite and decreased the size of the force?
I don't disagree at all that there are plenty of other factors at play with what has happened in New York. The entire gentrification of Manhattan has also played a major factor over the past 20 years. But I don't think you can discount the philosophy on guns and the overall rates.
I actually do for the most part. Cleaning up 42nd street, etc. had nothing to do with gun laws.
Don't get me wrong. I don't see how folks can be against background checks for ALL sales of guns (are they also against driver's licenses to use one of the favorite "analogies"), but I'm not sure NYC (or any major city) is a good example on either side (Chicago - I'm looking at you).
If you don't take care of the underlying problem (crime, squallor, mental health, etc.), the gun bans, etc. aren't going to do a whole lot. I will repeat again - all the guns in these incidents were LEGALLY owned.
And, yes, Bloomberg has reduced NYPD, and you can see the city slipping back into some of it's old "habits." I am a bit scared that the lag issue is comforting folks into feeling ok with what can only be termed a mistake on his part.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
You had plenty of opportunity to post it. You just posted "common sense"
Nice try though.
I was too busy trying to figure out your correlation between the stats you posted and gun control in NYC via google seeing if there are some laws I missed down there or something. I guess I gave you too much credit.
"...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
I actually do for the most part. Cleaning up 42nd street, etc. had nothing to do with gun laws.
Don't get me wrong. I don't see how folks can be against background checks for ALL sales of guns (are they also against driver's licenses to use one of the favorite "analogies"), but I'm not sure NYC (or any major city) is a good example on either side (Chicago - I'm looking at you).
If you don't take care of the underlying problem (crime, squallor, mental health, etc.), the gun bans, etc. aren't going to do a whole lot. I will repeat again - all the guns in these incidents were LEGALLY owned.
And, yes, Bloomberg has reduced NYPD, and you can see the city slipping back into some of it's old "habits." I am a bit scared that the lag issue is comforting folks into feeling ok with what can only be termed a mistake on his part.
chicago is a cess pool of violence.
chicago pretty much has banned guns for the last 20/30 years or whatever it is.
interesting
anyways....i have no problem with back ground checks (does it even work).
i also have no issues with limited magazine rounds....although with everything grandfathered, plenty of options on the second hand market (what is the correct amount) 1, 6, 7, 10? i'd be ok with 10.
i also have no issue with registering of fire arms, although it will be tough to register alot of what is already out there.
i do have a major issue with those that want to take every fire arm away from every owner. those peope are just as nutty as the the people shooting at other people.
I actually do for the most part. Cleaning up 42nd street, etc. had nothing to do with gun laws.
Don't get me wrong. I don't see how folks can be against background checks for ALL sales of guns (are they also against driver's licenses to use one of the favorite "analogies"), but I'm not sure NYC (or any major city) is a good example on either side (Chicago - I'm looking at you).
If you don't take care of the underlying problem (crime, squallor, mental health, etc.), the gun bans, etc. aren't going to do a whole lot. I will repeat again - all the guns in these incidents were LEGALLY owned.
And, yes, Bloomberg has reduced NYPD, and you can see the city slipping back into some of it's old "habits." I am a bit scared that the lag issue is comforting folks into feeling ok with what can only be termed a mistake on his part.
I am not talking about TImes Sqaure. Manhattan as a whole is a very different place than it was. You can argue that the violence is going other places but the city as a whole has changed, which I do think has played a factor in the gun violence.
I don't disagree with you at all on the mental health aspect of it and I have point out Chicago myself. It is obviously not just taking guns away from people, which in reality is not what the New York law is doing. LIke I said, responsible gun owners shouldn't have a problem with this law.
Like I said, I get that there are many other factors and I guess the point that we will disagree on is that I see the less guns out and about as a good thing and less likely to get in the wrong hands. I am very much in favor of the right to own guns, I just don't think it should be a free for all where anyone can buy and carry any gun they want.
You don't think there is any correllation between the number of guns people are carrying illegally but may own legally and the number of homicides in New York?
You had plenty of opportunity to post it. You just posted "common sense"
Nice try though.
I was too busy trying to figure out your correlation between the stats you posted and gun control in NYC via google seeing if there are some laws I missed down there or something. I guess I gave you too much credit.
Ahhhhhh.....That's what you were doing...got it. Thanks. :?
i do have a major issue with those that want to take every fire arm away from every owner. those peope are just as nutty as the the people shooting at other people.
i do have a major issue with those that want to take every fire arm away from every owner. those peope are just as nutty as the the people shooting at other people.
"We're not looking to demonize gun owners," Cuomo said. "Gun owners have done nothing wrong."
"No one hunts with an assault rifle," Cuomo said. "No one needs 10 bullets to kill a deer. End the madness."
I actually do for the most part. Cleaning up 42nd street, etc. had nothing to do with gun laws.
Don't get me wrong. I don't see how folks can be against background checks for ALL sales of guns (are they also against driver's licenses to use one of the favorite "analogies"), but I'm not sure NYC (or any major city) is a good example on either side (Chicago - I'm looking at you).
If you don't take care of the underlying problem (crime, squallor, mental health, etc.), the gun bans, etc. aren't going to do a whole lot. I will repeat again - all the guns in these incidents were LEGALLY owned.
And, yes, Bloomberg has reduced NYPD, and you can see the city slipping back into some of it's old "habits." I am a bit scared that the lag issue is comforting folks into feeling ok with what can only be termed a mistake on his part.
I am not talking about TImes Sqaure. Manhattan as a whole is a very different place than it was. You can argue that the violence is going other places but the city as a whole has changed, which I do think has played a factor in the gun violence.
I don't disagree with you at all on the mental health aspect of it and I have point out Chicago myself. It is obviously not just taking guns away from people, which in reality is not what the New York law is doing. LIke I said, responsible gun owners shouldn't have a problem with this law.
Like I said, I get that there are many other factors and I guess the point that we will disagree on is that I see the less guns out and about as a good thing and less likely to get in the wrong hands. I am very much in favor of the right to own guns, I just don't think it should be a free for all where anyone can buy any gun they want.
You don't think there is any correllation between the number of guns people are carrying illegally but may own legally and the number of homicides in New York?
Don't take everything so literally. 42nd Street was used as a microcosm of what Rudy did for the ENTIRE city (not just Manhattan).
And to your last question: No. See: Town, Chi
But, to your 2nd to last paragraph - Agree
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Comments
You are of course hoping you are wrong, right?
Because we all want to see gun related crime go down, right?
Because that is far more important than the politics, right?
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
Don't let statistics get in your way though
Aww. Upset that Republicans don't run the NY state legislature aren't you? :(
Are you trolling or do you have anything to back that up?
http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/28/justice/n ... index.html
It's common sense but if it makes people feel better, enjoy.
More fascinating insight from you. Thanks a lot. You bring so much to the table.
How about going back to talk about your breakfast?
You strike me as someone who always feels they are the smartest person in the room. Since you think this law is the greatest thing since sliced bread please explain to me exactly how this law will do anything? Anyone, please chime in an educate me. Tell me exactly how this will reduce illegal gun violence in NYS.
From my point of view, not This Law, but The Law to put it frank does nothing. Zippo.
Just because you wrote something down of piece of paper doesn't control a human being's actions. At the end of the day we're all a bunch of animals, always have been, always will be.
Not particularly, at all actually. I never said it was the "greatest thing since sliced bread" in the least. But I don't see why any responsible gun owner would have a problem with it.
What I have seen is NYC decrease the size of the department over the past few years and get tougher on guns. We have also seen the murder rate decline dramatically. And yes, the NYPD is one of the most technolgically advanced departments in the world but if those trends are happening, why not?
You can point to Chicago and I certainly think that would be a very interesting case study into why two areas with strict laws are seeing the murder rates go in opposite directions, but something is working in NYC and you can't necessarily say that it isn't the gun laws because they are taking a lot of guns off the street and if that article is correct, only 10% of the 8,000 they have taken are illegally owned.
This is where folks see statistics, have a conclusion, and link the 2.
This trend has been a consistent downward trend since Giuliani pumped up the NYPD (so to speak). So, while I am probably closer to your side on the view of the gun thing (though not exactly), the stats you quote actually support the "other side" of good guys with guns stop bad guys with guns if you look at the historical perspective.
I'd be surprised too. So what, they have to reload a few more times? Its not much of an inconvenience.
I can see why they'd be pissed about a ban, but better background checks and reduced capacities is no big deal.
"Becoming a Bruce fan is like hitting puberty as a musical fan. It's inevitable." - dcfaithful
Yes, I defintely get the NYPD aspect of it, which I think I addressed in the second point, but hasn't Bloomberg actually done the opposite and decreased the size of the force?
I don't disagree at all that there are plenty of other factors at play with what has happened in New York. The entire gentrification of Manhattan has also played a major factor over the past 20 years. But I don't think you can discount the philosophy on guns and the overall rates.
good that almost all here understand than need to be changes..
good job NY...
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
Beat me to it.
You had plenty of opportunity to post it. You just posted "common sense"
Nice try though.
I actually do for the most part. Cleaning up 42nd street, etc. had nothing to do with gun laws.
Don't get me wrong. I don't see how folks can be against background checks for ALL sales of guns (are they also against driver's licenses to use one of the favorite "analogies"), but I'm not sure NYC (or any major city) is a good example on either side (Chicago - I'm looking at you).
If you don't take care of the underlying problem (crime, squallor, mental health, etc.), the gun bans, etc. aren't going to do a whole lot. I will repeat again - all the guns in these incidents were LEGALLY owned.
And, yes, Bloomberg has reduced NYPD, and you can see the city slipping back into some of it's old "habits." I am a bit scared that the lag issue is comforting folks into feeling ok with what can only be termed a mistake on his part.
I was too busy trying to figure out your correlation between the stats you posted and gun control in NYC via google seeing if there are some laws I missed down there or something. I guess I gave you too much credit.
"..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
“..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
chicago is a cess pool of violence.
chicago pretty much has banned guns for the last 20/30 years or whatever it is.
interesting
anyways....i have no problem with back ground checks (does it even work).
i also have no issues with limited magazine rounds....although with everything grandfathered, plenty of options on the second hand market (what is the correct amount) 1, 6, 7, 10? i'd be ok with 10.
i also have no issue with registering of fire arms, although it will be tough to register alot of what is already out there.
i do have a major issue with those that want to take every fire arm away from every owner. those peope are just as nutty as the the people shooting at other people.
I am not talking about TImes Sqaure. Manhattan as a whole is a very different place than it was. You can argue that the violence is going other places but the city as a whole has changed, which I do think has played a factor in the gun violence.
I don't disagree with you at all on the mental health aspect of it and I have point out Chicago myself. It is obviously not just taking guns away from people, which in reality is not what the New York law is doing. LIke I said, responsible gun owners shouldn't have a problem with this law.
Like I said, I get that there are many other factors and I guess the point that we will disagree on is that I see the less guns out and about as a good thing and less likely to get in the wrong hands. I am very much in favor of the right to own guns, I just don't think it should be a free for all where anyone can buy and carry any gun they want.
You don't think there is any correllation between the number of guns people are carrying illegally but may own legally and the number of homicides in New York?
Ahhhhhh.....That's what you were doing...got it. Thanks. :?
How so?
I don't disagree with this.
"...I changed by not changing at all..."
"We're not looking to demonize gun owners," Cuomo said. "Gun owners have done nothing wrong."
"No one hunts with an assault rifle," Cuomo said. "No one needs 10 bullets to kill a deer. End the madness."
Don't take everything so literally. 42nd Street was used as a microcosm of what Rudy did for the ENTIRE city (not just Manhattan).
And to your last question: No. See: Town, Chi
But, to your 2nd to last paragraph - Agree