Lance Armstrong!

fear4freedom

Lance has lied for many years and will face litigation for sure. He is worth about 130 million dollars and my question to you is, how much of that 130 million should be taken from him? How should his life be after this incident?
Also, does the 2nd place guys in all the Tour de Frances get the prize? Were they also doping?
Im sure Lance isnt the only rider on drugs! Your take?

catefrances

my take is i couldnt give a shit about lance armstrong. he cheated. he got caught. he lied and lied and lied. the man tripped on his own ego. and no the 2nd place guy shouldnt get the titles armstrong won... the records should be left void as a reminder to alll those who thinking cheating is the way to go.

Bentleyspop

fear4freedom wrote:

Lance has lied for many years and will face litigation for sure. He is worth about 130 million dollars and my question to you is, how much of that 130 million should be taken from him? How should his life be after this incident?
Also, does the 2nd place guys in all the Tour de Frances get the prize? Were they also doping?
Im sure Lance isnt the only rider on drugs! Your take?

To answer your question about the The Tour titles.....they will be left vacant
it was found that every rider that finished in the top 5 each of those 7 years was tainted some way
So the people who own and operate The Tour decided to leave the titles vacant

TS1969

If my memory serves me correct, it was stated the winner would be left blank because so many people were caught doping during those years.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

I'm sure he'll be fine. He plans on testifying against officials in the industry for apparently encouraging and facilitating drug use.

then he'll write a NY Times best seller about it all and make more millions.

fear4freedom

Ok heres a good question....if many of the top racers were on drugs and noone even knows their names, is this a situation where Lance take the hit for the other drug users? Noone gets a prize and Lance benefitted the most....so he will lose the most! But the other guys gotta lose their wealth too!

Take all their money away and give it to the needy!

Hugh Freaking Dillon

most have them have already been caught and ruined. it's not just the cycling association saying "we think everyone was on drugs, so no one wins". and it was his former team mates and other cyclists that testified against him, so they probably got softer penalties as a result.

hedonist

I think he's a cheating dumbass and forever tainted his character and honor - two things far more valuable (to me) than money.

I'd likely have a tough time looking anyone in the eye, or hoping they'd trust me at my word.

Cheaters suck.

Prince Of Dorkness

He got that money by being paid to endorse things.

Which he did.

There was no back-end clause that said "and if we find out in 10 years that you cheated, we get the money back."

So no money will be taken from him.

And if we can put this in perspective... 130 Million dollars isn't that much. And other than people who were dumb enough to "believe in" a sports star and actually get emotionally invested in the accomplishments of others, nobody was hurt.

The guys who ran the big banks and invested and cheated and stole and lied and tanked the US economy and ruined the lives of hundreds of millions of people... they have all walked away with MORE than 130 million dollars and most of them got nothing more than a bitter look from a few people.

And oddly enough, more people seem more upset and more emotionally involved in Lance Armstrong than anything else.

Why is that?

catefrances

fear4freedom wrote:

Ok heres a good question....if many of the top racers were on drugs and noone even knows their names, is this a situation where Lance take the hit for the other drug users? Noone gets a prize and Lance benefitted the most....so he will lose the most! But the other guys gotta lose their wealth too!

Take all their money away and give it to the needy!

its not as easy as just giving back the prize money. the rider doesnt take it all... he shares it with his crew and why the fuck should they hand it back cause armstrong is a dick. but of course theres always the question of how complicit they were in his cheating..and thats also the question being levelled at cyclings governing body... did they foster this climate by doing nothing? if so then they should be in a world of hurt as well.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

He got that money by being paid to endorse things.

Which he did.

There was no back-end clause that said "and if we find out in 10 years that you cheated, we get the money back."

So no money will be taken from him.

And if we can put this in perspective... 130 Million dollars isn't that much. And other than people who were dumb enough to "believe in" a sports star and actually get emotionally invested in the accomplishments of others, nobody was hurt.

The guys who ran the big banks and invested and cheated and stole and lied and tanked the US economy and ruined the lives of hundreds of millions of people... they have all walked away with MORE than 130 million dollars and most of them got nothing more than a bitter look from a few people.

And oddly enough, more people seem more upset and more emotionally involved in Lance Armstrong than anything else.

Why is that?

because he was the face of overcoming cancer. he inspired a LOT of people. now he is a fraud. that makes a lot of people question a lot of things about themselves.

like any spiritual figure, really.

he was paid to endorse things based on his performance in his field of sport and his reputation. now that both of those are ruined, it also hurts the reputation of those that he endorsed, potentially. there is a risk of libel and I don't disagree with that.

and how the fuck is $130 million not a lot of money? how many zeros does your bank statement actually have?

gimmesometruth27

cycling has the second most dopers. historically, biathletes have a history of being the sport with the most pervasive use of PEDs. they use beta blockers to slow their heartbeat down so slow that they can actually shoot in between heartbeats for more accurate shooting.

catefrances

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

cycling has the second most dopers. historically, biathletes have a history of being the sport with the most pervasive use of PEDs. they use beta blockers to slow their heartbeat down so slow that they can actually shoot in between heartbeats for more accurate shooting.

that would come in handy in a post apocalyptic world. *shakes head*

Prince Of Dorkness

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

because he was the face of overcoming cancer. he inspired a LOT of people. now he is a fraud. that makes a lot of people question a lot of things about themselves.

And that in itself is kind of sad. Fame warps people's minds, I guess.

I know a LOT of guys who've lived through testicular cancer because just about every man who gets it "overcomes" it. It's very curable and seldom deadly. Not to be more of a dick than I usually am but maybe people just don't talk about it much. Calling him a "spiritual figure" is absurd. He's a guy who got a very common kind of cancer that just about everyone survives. That's just saying Madonna is spiritual because she overcame having a gap in her front teeth.

there is a risk of libel and I don't disagree with that.

Um.. I don't think "libel" means what you think it does.

and how the fuck is $130 million not a lot of money? how many zeros does your bank statement actually have?

A rather tacky question. My own finances aren't the subject although I guess I should point out that I've never taken steroids to make any of it. Nor do I think anyone is likely to drink Red Bull because I held a can of it and had a Paparazzi take my picture.

catefrances

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

because he was the face of overcoming cancer. he inspired a LOT of people. now he is a fraud. that makes a lot of people question a lot of things about themselves.

And that in itself is kind of sad. Fame warps people's minds, I guess.

I know a LOT of guys who've lived through testicular cancer because just about every man who gets it "overcomes" it. It's very curable and seldom deadly. Not to be more of a dick than I usually am but maybe people just don't talk about it much. Calling him a "spiritual figure" is absurd. He's a guy who got a very common kind of cancer that just about everyone survives. That's just saying Madonna is spiritual because she overcame having a gap in her front teeth.

have to agree with you here prince. millions of peeps all over the world overcome cancer(tho i have tbh and say no one in my family has ever lived to tell the tale afterwards)..and theyre not all a world famous cyclist... actually none of them are im guessing. celebrity has warped our society.

polaris_x

http://community.pearljam.com/viewtopic ... 4&t=157305

or

http://community.pearljam.com/viewtopic ... ilit=lance

all are answered there

know1

Lie Strong

cincybearcat

Man, I don't really care that much about Lance, but I'm bummed. People suck.

Jeanwah

Who cares. I mean, the real problem is the worshipping of athletes and celebs in general, so we should blame no one but ourselves for falling for Mr. Armstrong as being some kind of hero. And besides, success corrupts athletes. Look at Tiger. We should know better.

Moonpig

I'd give my left nut to have a crack at his missus.

And sure atleast he had the ball to come clean.

:? too soon?

JimmyV

I don't care too much about Lance or cycling. Doping in a dope sport is not surprising.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:

because he was the face of overcoming cancer. he inspired a LOT of people. now he is a fraud. that makes a lot of people question a lot of things about themselves.

And that in itself is kind of sad. Fame warps people's minds, I guess.

I know a LOT of guys who've lived through testicular cancer because just about every man who gets it "overcomes" it. It's very curable and seldom deadly. Not to be more of a dick than I usually am but maybe people just don't talk about it much. Calling him a "spiritual figure" is absurd. He's a guy who got a very common kind of cancer that just about everyone survives. That's just saying Madonna is spiritual because she overcame having a gap in her front teeth.

there is a risk of libel and I don't disagree with that.

Um.. I don't think "libel" means what you think it does.

and how the fuck is $130 million not a lot of money? how many zeros does your bank statement actually have?

A rather tacky question. My own finances aren't the subject although I guess I should point out that I've never taken steroids to make any of it. Nor do I think anyone is likely to drink Red Bull because I held a can of it and had a Paparazzi take my picture.

that question was made in jest, Prince. See the little winky? Come on.

libel can be defined as something that damagingly misrepresents, which he did. But even if you disagree with my verbage, you know what I mean.

I didn't say he was a spiritual figure to me, but anyone who inspires other people can be seen as a spiritual figure. Not sure how that's absurd.

blackredyellow

I could honestly care less about the cheating at cycling... And while some riders lost out because they lost to a cheater, in the end, him doing what he did probably brought millions and millions more to the sport than if he wasn't there (or didn't win).

What bothers me more is the vindictive way that he apparently destroyed anyone who crossed him and told the apparent truth about him doping.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/questions- ... 49439.html

josevolution

I don't care i say let all of the athletes do as much doping as they wan't ride untill your legs fall off make all the money you wan't to make , it has no effect on my life at all ...

Take away hi's $$$$$$$$

I don't idolize pro athletes , artist , musicians no one .....

even flow - question mark

When he was winning everybody loved the guy. When Sosa, Maguire and the lot were pounding balls, seven hundred feet over the fences sports fans went crazy. When Ben Johnson, Carl Lewis and that crew were smashing world records per race, the world loved it. So why does everybody, turn at the drop of doping. You'd have to be from Mars to think that barely breaking a sweat while climbing an alp on a bike is natural. You'd have to be retarded to think that when a baseball bat in Maguires hands all of a sudden looked like a toothpick was due to a good gym program. When looking into Johnson's eyes and they had a yellow haze to them, not to mention the body on the guy, you had to know that running 9.69 or whatever it was just wasn't done with growth hormones. Toss in the women who looked like men from the eastern block back in the day and doping has been going on as long as prestige with being a sports hero has. Doping is good for sports!

vant0037

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

He got that money by being paid to endorse things.

Which he did.

There was no back-end clause that said "and if we find out in 10 years that you cheated, we get the money back."

So no money will be taken from him.

And if we can put this in perspective... 130 Million dollars isn't that much. And other than people who were dumb enough to "believe in" a sports star and actually get emotionally invested in the accomplishments of others, nobody was hurt.

The guys who ran the big banks and invested and cheated and stole and lied and tanked the US economy and ruined the lives of hundreds of millions of people... they have all walked away with MORE than 130 million dollars and most of them got nothing more than a bitter look from a few people.

And oddly enough, more people seem more upset and more emotionally involved in Lance Armstrong than anything else.

Why is that?

While I agree with you that there are worse criminals in the world than Lance Armstrong, it doesn't make what he did any less deplorable. He ruined careers and reputations of several journalists who tried to expose him originally. That's probably the worst part about all of it.

Additionally, I think you're wrong in saying there was no contractual obligation to not use PEDs. The US Postal Service agreement specifically stated that a condition of the sponsorship was that he not use PEDs and pass all required drug tests, which makes why he chose to come out and admit anything all the more vexing. Perhaps he was choosing the least shitty of two shitty choices: be labeled a cheater forever and keep denying it, or be labeled a cheater forever but be honest about it.

Prince Of Dorkness

[quote="Hugh Freaking Dillon"
that question was made in jest, Prince. See the little winky? Come on.
libel can be defined as something that damagingly misrepresents, which he did. But even if you disagree with my verbage, you know what I mean.

I didn't say he was a spiritual figure to me, but anyone who inspires other people can be seen as a spiritual figure. Not sure how that's absurd.[/quote]

I should have read the name and saw it was you. Geez... People changing their avatar is confusing.

Ok, I'm a dunce. :fp:

Anyway.. Testicular cancer has a 95% survival rate when caught at the stage he caught it. So him being deified for it I think either shows that we blow celebrity achievements out of proportion or that people don't really understand how curable it is.

And I do see what you mean... He did screw over a lot of people and have made a lot of sponsors look dumb. That's for sure.

catefrances

know1 wrote:

Lie Strong

:thumbup:

Moonpig

Prince Of Dorkness wrote:

[quote="Hugh Freaking Dillon"
that question was made in jest, Prince. See the little winky? Come on.
libel can be defined as something that damagingly misrepresents, which he did. But even if you disagree with my verbage, you know what I mean.

I didn't say he was a spiritual figure to me, but anyone who inspires other people can be seen as a spiritual figure. Not sure how that's absurd.

I should have read the name and saw it was you. Geez... People changing their avatar is confusing.

Ok, I'm a dunce. :fp:

Anyway.. Testicular cancer has a 95% survival rate when caught at the stage he caught it. So him being deified for it I think either shows that we blow celebrity achievements out of proportion or that people don't really understand how curable it is.

And I do see what you mean... He did screw over a lot of people and have made a lot of sponsors look dumb. That's for sure.[/quote]

I know a little off topic, but I was reading up on that Notre Dame footballer, fuck me what a story. He's saying now that he never met her, he was very much defied by it.

And now him trying to distance himself from it when it all blows up in his face. His PR team are in overdrive at the moment to paint him as the victim.

Smellyman

I don't care at all.

He has helped raise 500 million for cancer research....... thanks to his doping perhaps?

he gets a hall pass.

polaris_x

Smellyman wrote:

I don't care at all.

He has helped raise 500 million for cancer research....... thanks to his doping perhaps?

he gets a hall pass.

i am guessing you don't know the full story ... there's a thread on the AET if you choose to read it ... it'll shed some light as to why this guy doesn't deserve a hall pass ...