Deaf Twins Going Blind Euthanized

gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
edited January 2013 in A Moving Train
haven't seen a discussion on this issue here in a long time.

i just came across this article. i'm not sure how i feel about it... normally i am all for patients having the right to choose euthanasia in cases of terminal illness, but this was not terminal. part of me feels like this was murder. they were not terminal, but i guess none of us could ever feel or imagine their suffering...

i guess more than anything it just makes me feel sad.


Deaf Twins Going Blind Euthanized

http://news.yahoo.com/deaf-twins-going- ... ories.html

Two deaf twin brothers in Belgium were euthanized by their doctor after realizing they were going blind and would be unable to see each other ever again, their physician says.

The 45-year-old men, whose names have not been made public, were legally put to death by lethal injection at the Brussels University Hospital in Jette, on Dec. 14.

The men, who were born deaf, had a cup of coffee and said goodbye to other family members before walking into hospital room together to die, their doctor told Belgian television station RTL.

"They were very happy. It was a relief to see the end of their suffering," said Dr. David Dufour.

"They had a cup of coffee in the hall. It went well and a rich conversation. Then the separation from their parents and brother was very serene and beautiful," he said. "At the last there was a little wave of their hands and then they were gone,"

More than 1,000 people legally availed themselves of doctor-assisted deaths in Belgium in 2011, most of them were terminally ill cancer patients.

The brothers are unique in that their illness was not terminal. Belgian law, however, allows doctors to euthanize "suffering" patients who are both mentally sound, over 18 and want to die.

Belgian lawmakers are considering a law that would extend euthanasia to dementia patients and children, whose families and doctors consented.
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Comments

  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    Bizarre. Is this a real story? These people weren't even sick!
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 23,303
    yeah it is real.

    Faced with blindness, deaf twins choose euthanasia

    http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013 ... nasia?lite

    A pair of adult identical twins in Belgium have been legally killed at their request, the men's doctor told journalists.

    The 45-years-old men, who were born deaf, spent their lives side-by-side — growing up together and then, as adults, sharing an apartment and working as cobblers together, according to Belgian media reports.

    The men’s names have not been released but photographs of the identical twins from the Antwerp region have been made available to some media outlets.

    Their doctor, David Dufour, told Belgium’s RTL Television over the weekend that the two men had been losing their eyesight for several years and soon would have been completely blind. The prospect of being blind as well as deaf was unbearable to them, he said.

    "They were fully aware of their decision," Dufour said.

    After winning approval from the necessary authorities, the two men received lethal injections at a Belgian hospital in December.

    Dufour described their last moments: "They had a last cup of coffee and everything was fine. They said goodbye to their parents and brother and all was serene. They waved — and that was that."

    Under a 2002 law, Belgians are allowed to end their own lives if a doctor judges an individual has made his or her wishes clear and is suffering unbearable pain.

    The case of the twins was unusual because the two men were not approaching the end of their natural lives nor were they terminally ill.

    But Jacqueline Herremans, a member of the Belgian Commission of Euthanasia, told RTL that they did meet the legal requirements as their suffering was grave and incurable. When they became blind as well as deaf, he said, they would not have been able to lead autonomous lives, and that with only a sense of touch they had no prospects of a future.

    She acknowledged this was an exceptional case.

    "Evidently they had a particular destiny. They were two human beings who have lived together, grown up together, worked together and wanted to die together. Their suffering may not have been physical, but there was psychological suffering," she said.

    In 2010 and 2011, a total of 2,086 people died by euthanasia in Belgium, according to the country’s Euthanasia Commission.

    Belgium is now looking at introducing a legal amendment that would allow children and those with dementia the option of seeking permission to die. If passed later this year, the option of euthanasia will be extended to minors affected by an incurable illness, or suffering that cannot be alleviated.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • the wolfthe wolf Posts: 7,027
    Yeah, I'm not sure how I feel about this either gimmie.

    Very sad indeed.
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  • See... no.

    These are two people who have a very serious co-dependent mental disorder. Being unable to see each other. Yes.. it would suck. But sorry, allowing those people to be euthanized is... A very dangerous step.

    I'm going blind too. But no way I'm offing myself.
  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,618
    Well they were allready deaf and now they were going blind what else could they endure , i feel sad for them but i'm glad they had the final say .....Fucking life not fare at all .
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  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    I read about this earlier and while I don't know how I'd handle the same situation, it's apparently (and thankfully) their right to seek this out.

    Kinda comes down to this:

    Their doctor, David Dufour, told Belgium’s RTL Television over the weekend that the two men had been losing their eyesight for several years and soon would have been completely blind. The prospect of being blind as well as deaf was unbearable to them, he said.

    "They were fully aware of their decision," Dufour said.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    im not sure what im feeling after reading that story. but i am in support of people taking control of their own deaths.
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  • A raw deal for sure. Imagine being blind and deaf.

    On one hand... you'd think they have had the time to learn some coping mechanisms before going blind... but on the other hand... it wouldn't be a lot of fun.

    With taste and touch as your only senses, you're not exactly enjoying a whole lot. Being completely dependent on others to do virtually everything for you would be difficult to accept.

    I get where they are at. I support their decision. Of course I wish for something better for them, but I think it would be wrong to tell them to 'suck it up' if they weren't up for the task.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • peacefrompaulpeacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    im not sure what im feeling after reading that story. but i am in support of people taking control of their own deaths.

    I feel the same way, Cate... totally agree
  • but i am in support of people taking control of their own deaths.


    I am to a point.

    I think letting clinically depressed people kill themselves is against the "first do no harm" bit and I think it's unethical. I think that doctor-assisted suicide should be like gender reassignment surgery... not something that you can just go in and ask for but a very long, drawn-out process since it's an irreversible procedure.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    but i am in support of people taking control of their own deaths.


    I am to a point.

    I think letting clinically depressed people kill themselves is against the "first do no harm" bit and I think it's unethical. I think that doctor-assisted suicide should be like gender reassignment surgery... not something that you can just go in and ask for but a very long, drawn-out process since it's an irreversible procedure.

    we take so much effort to control birth, why should i not be able to die when i want? i understand the finality of the action i just dont want to be forced or force others to live if thats not their wish.
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  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    I think the problem I have with this is that they are not blind yet. It's like, they ended their lives before they are at that point of not wanting to live anymore. Now, those living with dementia and terminal illness, I completely understand. But these folks aren't even there yet. And the articles mention nothing about their health. Were they healthy when they chose to die? I just have a hard time reconciling that. And because of these two, it's probably the beginning to more euthanasia being done lawfully (and perhaps unlawfully).
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    but i am in support of people taking control of their own deaths.


    I am to a point.

    I think letting clinically depressed people kill themselves is against the "first do no harm" bit and I think it's unethical. I think that doctor-assisted suicide should be like gender reassignment surgery... not something that you can just go in and ask for but a very long, drawn-out process since it's an irreversible procedure.

    I agree with this.
  • we take so much effort to control birth,


    And we shouldn't do that, either.
  • we take so much effort to control birth,


    And we shouldn't do that, either.

    I am missing something here. Birth control is a bad thing?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • I am missing something here. Birth control is a bad thing?

    I was thinking more about all the laws about women's reproductive rights.
  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    I am missing something here. Birth control is a bad thing?

    I was thinking more about all the laws about women's reproductive rights.


    i was thinking contraception and abortion.
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  • Uh i say we have a voluteer worldwide suicide to help heal the planet and save others in the process. Its a sacrifice for others well being. Its all out of love. The world could shed about a billion or two...and life would greatly improve for the ones left here!

    We would see the biggest martyrdom act in history!

    Just saying.
    Theres no time like the present

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    All people need to do more on every level!
  • 8181 Needing a ride to Forest Hills and a ounce of weed. Please inquire within. Thanks. Or not. Posts: 58,276
    saw that....

    interesting read.

    seems an old way to term the procedure.
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  • catefrancescatefrances Posts: 29,003
    Uh i say we have a voluteer worldwide suicide to help heal the planet and save others in the process. Its a sacrifice for others well being. Its all out of love. The world could shed about a billion or two...and life would greatly improve for the ones left here!

    We would see the biggest martyrdom act in history!

    Just saying.


    will you be leading by example???
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  • I am missing something here. Birth control is a bad thing?

    I was thinking more about all the laws about women's reproductive rights.


    i was thinking contraception and abortion.

    Imagine a movement to ignore contraceptive measures. People are sexual: you won't see abstinence being practiced- you would see a population explosion. The earth can't even sustain the current population let alone this happening.

    I can't see this being a good thing.

    Then toss in our youth sector all young, stupid and horny: becoming parents at 13/14/15. You think we have problems now with the lack of parenting we have experienced... just wait until this scenario unfolded and reflect on the state of society.

    Contraception is a really, really good thing. I can't fathom why someone would think differently?
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Good for them. They went out when/how they wanted.
  • USARAYUSARAY Posts: 517
    "Death is no more than passing from one room into another. But there's a difference for me, you know. Because in that other room I shall be able to see."

    Helen Keller
  • how awful for their parents.
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  • JonnyPistachioJonnyPistachio Florida Posts: 10,219
    What an unusual case. Makes me wonder - If they were determined to die, would they have done it themselves if the doctor option wasnt available?
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  • ZosoZoso Posts: 6,425
    unless someone is seriously ill/sick with a disease to something that is terminal or something that seriously hinder's their life I'm not in favor of this.. if it can be proven someone's quality of life is SO POOR they can barely function then I'm in favor.
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  • Zoso wrote:
    unless someone is seriously ill/sick with a disease to something that is terminal or something that seriously hinder's their life I'm not in favor of this.. if it can be proven someone's quality of life is SO POOR they can barely function then I'm in favor.

    that's too subjective to be proven by anyone. my wife's two aunts are blind and extremely sickly from malaria, have been for years, both nuns in africa. they couldn't be happier with the choices they made (being that religious helps I'm sure).
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  • hedonisthedonist Posts: 24,524
    Zoso wrote:
    unless someone is seriously ill/sick with a disease to something that is terminal or something that seriously hinder's their life I'm not in favor of this.. if it can be proven someone's quality of life is SO POOR they can barely function then I'm in favor.
    I think quality of life is subjective, though. And it sort of ties in to JP's question up there as well...

    I wonder...we treat our our animals with kindness and humaneness by determining their life has become more painful than pleasurable for them, and then do what we feel is right for them.

    How can we not afford OURSELVES that option, by our own choice? Even if not by our own hand?
  • JeanwahJeanwah Posts: 6,363
    edited January 2013
    hedonist wrote:
    Zoso wrote:
    unless someone is seriously ill/sick with a disease to something that is terminal or something that seriously hinder's their life I'm not in favor of this.. if it can be proven someone's quality of life is SO POOR they can barely function then I'm in favor.
    I think quality of life is subjective, though. And it sort of ties in to JP's question up there as well...

    I wonder...we treat our our animals with kindness and humaneness by determining their life has become more painful than pleasurable for them, and then do what we feel is right for them.

    How can we not afford OURSELVES that option, by our own choice? Even if not by our own hand?

    But these guys weren't blind yet. They weren't suffering. And who knows what their health was like. They could have had no other health problems. I don't know, but it seems unethical.

    We also put our beloved animals down for a final rest when they are sick or badly injured. My grandparents actually had a dog that was blind and deaf and continued to live for 2 years before dying.
    Post edited by Jeanwah on
  • Last-12-ExitLast-12-Exit Charleston, SC Posts: 8,661
    Zoso wrote:
    unless someone is seriously ill/sick with a disease to something that is terminal or something that seriously hinder's their life I'm not in favor of this.. if it can be proven someone's quality of life is SO POOR they can barely function then I'm in favor.

    Nobody should have to prove that they are miserable or suffering. To anyone. I understand suicide is a horrific tragedy that can be avoided in many cases. I know the pain it brings to the family and friends left behind. But ultimately, its an individuals choice to die if he/she feels they can't live thru whatever it is they are dealing with.
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