Freedom isn't Free

2

Comments

  • USARAY
    USARAY Posts: 517
    aerial wrote:
    Flutter Girl wrote:
    Moonpig wrote:
    If Obama suited up for war and headed off, you'd accuse him of dereliction of duty.

    Can't speak for anyone else, but I'd personally have more respect for him. My own opinion is if you are going to serve as the top honcho of our military, you should serve in it first..

    :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
    :thumbup: yep i would respect a leader more too
  • Flutter Girl
    Flutter Girl Posts: 548
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    name any modern president that has ever been in the armed forces.

    Harry Truman: World War I (Army)
    Dwight D. Eisenhower: World War I and World War II (Army)
    John F. Kennedy: World War II (Navy)
    Lyndon B. Johnson: World War II (Navy)
    Richard Nixon: World War II (Navy)
    Gerald Ford: World War II (Navy)
    Jimmy Carter: Cold War era (Navy)
    Ronald Reagan: World War II (Air Force)
    George H.W. Bush: World War II (Navy)
    George W. Bush

    Most had served..actually..but these are the most recent. Out of the past 12 Presidents, Obama and Clinton are the only 2 who did not serve in the military.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,673
    World War II was a long time ago. Any president today that did not serve in the military in any war since then at least knew enough to avoid wars that we unjustifiable. Oh, and there are also other things to do that are quite honorable besides serving in the military. For example, people teach instead (I did that) or work in hospitals or volunteer or work to understand environmental issues or help the aged or the weak or the underprivileged- the list goes on and on.

    Free your minds.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • Flutter Girl
    Flutter Girl Posts: 548
    brianlux wrote:
    World War II was a long time ago. Any president today that did not serve in the military in any war since then at least knew enough to avoid wars that we unjustifiable. Oh, and there are also other things to do that are quite honorable besides serving in the military. For example, people teach instead (I did that) or work in hospitals or volunteer or work to understand environmental issues or help the aged or the weak or the underprivileged- the list goes on and on.

    Free your minds.

    WWII was not that long ago and the Cold war was just 20 years ago. Those serving in Korea and Vietnam were drafted, they didn't (for the most part) sign up for it freely, they were forced to go. Hippies don't like to acknowledge that. It would make them look bad for literally spitting on them when those guys came back. They're all about love and peace, unless you do or say something they disagree with, then they become vile and hateful and spiteful. Regardless, it doesn't change that only 2 out of the last 12 Presidents did not serve in the military.

    How does being a teacher, or working in a hospital, teach you how the military works? When running for President, you aren't applying to become dean of a university or CEO of a hospital. You are applying to be the leader of the military. The General's General.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,673
    Flutter Girl wrote:
    brianlux wrote:
    World War II was a long time ago. Any president today that did not serve in the military in any war since then at least knew enough to avoid wars that we unjustifiable. Oh, and there are also other things to do that are quite honorable besides serving in the military. For example, people teach instead (I did that) or work in hospitals or volunteer or work to understand environmental issues or help the aged or the weak or the underprivileged- the list goes on and on.

    Free your minds.

    WWII was not that long ago and the Cold war was just 20 years ago. Those serving in Korea and Vietnam were drafted, they didn't (for the most part) sign up for it freely, they were forced to go. Hippies don't like to acknowledge that. It would make them look bad for literally spitting on them when those guys came back. They're all about love and peace, unless you do or say something they disagree with, then they become vile and hateful and spiteful. Regardless, it doesn't change that only 2 out of the last 12 Presidents did not serve in the military.

    How does being a teacher, or working in a hospital, teach you how the military works? When running for President, you aren't applying to become dean of a university or CEO of a hospital. You are applying to be the leader of the military. The General's General.

    See what I mean? More vitriol.

    Are you old enough to know what people like me who did not serve in Vietnam are like? Do you really thing all of us "hippies" spit on the vets? Do you not know that many of us supported them and still do to this day? Or do you just like spitting venom at old farts like me?
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    Flutter Girl wrote:
    When running for President, you aren't applying to become dean of a university or CEO of a hospital. You are applying to be the leader of the military. The General's General.
    you know...be a president doesnt mean to do wars ONLY....
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • Flutter Girl
    Flutter Girl Posts: 548
    brianlux wrote:
    See what I mean? More vitriol.

    Are you old enough to know what people like me who did not serve in Vietnam are like? Do you really thing all of us "hippies" spit on the vets? Do you not know that many of us supported them and still do to this day? Or do you just like spitting venom at old farts like me?

    You said "Any president today that did not serve in the military in any war since then at least knew enough to avoid wars that we unjustifiable."

    That is not a supportive statement. That is like saying my daddy wasn't smart cos he didn't manage to avoid serving in Korea when his number came up. He was one that got spit on. All I had to go on was what you, yourself, said. And I never said all hippies.

    Regardless, it doesn't change the original point. The other poster said to name one recent president who served. So I named 10.
  • riotgrl
    riotgrl LOUISVILLE Posts: 1,895
    Flutter Girl wrote:
    Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:
    name any modern president that has ever been in the armed forces.

    Harry Truman: World War I (Army)
    Dwight D. Eisenhower: World War I and World War II (Army)
    John F. Kennedy: World War II (Navy)
    Lyndon B. Johnson: World War II (Navy)
    Richard Nixon: World War II (Navy)
    Gerald Ford: World War II (Navy)
    Jimmy Carter: Cold War era (Navy)
    Ronald Reagan: World War II (Air Force)
    George H.W. Bush: World War II (Navy)
    George W. Bush

    Most had served..actually..but these are the most recent. Out of the past 12 Presidents, Obama and Clinton are the only 2 who did not serve in the military.

    And how many of these presidents served in a combat position? Sitting stateside in a reporters position (Reagan) or flight training school (Bush II) is not the same.
    Are we getting something out of this all-encompassing trip?

    Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...

    I AM MINE
  • Flutter Girl
    Flutter Girl Posts: 548
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    Flutter Girl wrote:
    When running for President, you aren't applying to become dean of a university or CEO of a hospital. You are applying to be the leader of the military. The General's General.
    you know...be a president doesnt mean to do wars ONLY....

    It's in the Constitution. He/She is in charge of commanding our military and using that military to protect our right to exist as a nation. Everything else a President does today got added on over the years. And waging war is supposed to be a last resort of a military. Peacekeeping is supposed to be their main focus.


    riotgrl- 8 out of 10. So..most of them. But that is irrelevant. You can serve during a time of peace, just the act of serving is enough. You learn how the military works then. Something I can personally say you just can't learn right unless you join.
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    Flutter Girl wrote:
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    Flutter Girl wrote:
    When running for President, you aren't applying to become dean of a university or CEO of a hospital. You are applying to be the leader of the military. The General's General.
    you know...be a president doesnt mean to do wars ONLY....

    It's in the Constitution. He/She is in charge of commanding our military and using that military to protect our right to exist as a nation. Everything else a President does today got added on over the years. And waging war is supposed to be a last resort of a military. Peacekeeping is supposed to be their main focus.


    r.
    he is in charge of everything..healthcare as well...he dont have to know how to do the operations at hospital...
    he is leader at education,he dont have to know to teach at elemetary school..
    leader at justice,jhe dont have to be a judge at courts.....

    president has to be a leader to everything ....serve or not serve the country doesnt make him less leader or less patriot...

    same as generals.do u think generals know how to fire a missle from a sub marine?
    they dont,even they are 30 years at the force..
    they are there to make the calls..
    so they are next to president,tell him the facts,whats the options,and he to make the calls..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • Flutter Girl
    Flutter Girl Posts: 548
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    he is in charge of everything..healthcare as well...he dont have to know how to do the operations at hospital...
    he is leader at education,he dont have to know to teach at elemetary school..
    leader at justice,jhe dont have to be a judge at courts.....

    president has to be a leader to everything ....serve or not serve the country doesnt make him less leader or less patriot...

    same as generals.do u think generals know how to fire a missle from a sub marine?
    they dont,even they are 30 years at the force..
    they are there to make the calls..
    so they are next to president,tell him the facts,whats the options,and he to make the calls..

    He's not supposed to be in charge of all those things, and he doesn't try to manage those things..it's not his job. That is delegated to Congress, and the Senate, and boards like the school board, etc.

    If you are the General of the Air Force, then no, I don't expect you to know how to fire a missile from a submarine. But if you are General of the Navy, yes I do expect you to, and they do. They don't just join and get the top position right out the gate. They had to work their way up the ranks, they had to do things like swab the deck and, yes, even fire missiles from submarines..honestly, how different is the Greek military run that you wouldn't know that's how a General becomes a General?
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    Flutter Girl wrote:
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    he is in charge of everything..healthcare as well...he dont have to know how to do the operations at hospital...
    he is leader at education,he dont have to know to teach at elemetary school..
    leader at justice,jhe dont have to be a judge at courts.....

    president has to be a leader to everything ....serve or not serve the country doesnt make him less leader or less patriot...

    same as generals.do u think generals know how to fire a missle from a sub marine?
    they dont,even they are 30 years at the force..
    they are there to make the calls..
    so they are next to president,tell him the facts,whats the options,and he to make the calls..

    He's not supposed to be in charge of all those things, and he doesn't try to manage those things..it's not his job. That is delegated to Congress, and the Senate, and boards like the school board, etc.

    If you are the General of the Air Force, then no, I don't expect you to know how to fire a missile from a submarine. But if you are General of the Navy, yes I do expect you to, and they do. They don't just join and get the top position right out the gate. They had to work their way up the ranks, they had to do things like swab the deck and, yes, even fire missiles from submarines..honestly, how different is the Greek military run that you wouldn't know that's how a General becomes a General?
    no,the generals dont know shit about details
    they get briefings about what a weapon can do..
    if you put them in a submarine,probably will be hard to find the exit..
    to become a general,you will atleast need like 30 years carreer...so 30 years ago the submarines that you may serve was different,same weapons same technology..
    a general has so many under him to give him the infos they need,so,when it needs,having all the infos,to make the calls,cos his rank is the one need to do it..
    experience and years of duty give you that right,and not cos you know how to pilot an F-22 or a submarine...is how military works..
    same as president..he takes all the infos from people under him,like the generals,of army,navy,airforce and give the ok to attack...
    not the president or the generals knows how to fix the missle,how to lock the target...etc..
    is how military works..everywhere..
    people do the job that people order them to do..
    and ill tell u..the pain in the ass in my job,is that people make the calls,never did my job...
    is how hierarchy is..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • Flutter Girl
    Flutter Girl Posts: 548
    The military is different from a regular job. Yes, submarines were different 30 years ago, but they didn't serve 30 years ago, take a 30 year hiatus, then get the rank of General. They were in and active, even as technology changed..Getting trained on the new equipement. It's required. Besides that, it's common sense. How can they train the new kids how to use it if they don't know how it works? Not that it matters. No matter the technology, firing a missile is firing a missile. The consequence is the same. And that is learned the same, no matter what year they were behind the weapon themselves. It's the experience that teaches you how to run a military, not knowing where every nut and screw is on a weapon built yesterday compared to one built 30 years ago.
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    Flutter Girl wrote:
    The military is different from a regular job. Yes, submarines were different 30 years ago, but they didn't serve 30 years ago, take a 30 year hiatus, then get the rank of General. They were in and active, even as technology changed..Getting trained on the new equipement. It's required. Besides that, it's common sense. How can they train the new kids how to use it if they don't know how it works? Not that it matters. No matter the technology, firing a missile is firing a missile. The consequence is the same. And that is learned the same, no matter what year they were behind the weapon themselves. It's the experience that teaches you how to run a military, not knowing where every nut and screw is on a weapon built yesterday compared to one built 30 years ago.
    thats im saying..you become a general to have the balls to say fire,to start a war,to end a war to be in war..
    you dont have to fight..you make the calls

    same as president...has to have the balls to make the calls..
    dont have to be a general...
    we have political system....not military to run the country,...my country,your country..
    so the politician will be presidents..no matter if serve or not..thats their job..
    let military do theirs..
    if we let military runs the country,we are fucked
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • Flutter Girl
    Flutter Girl Posts: 548
    Yea but there's more to it than just making the calls. The President can't just delegate strategy to a General. He has to be involved. That's his job as the Commander of the military. Be it in a time of peace, or a time of war. There's more to it than just saying "stand down," or "take the first shot."
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    Flutter Girl wrote:
    Yea but there's more to it than just making the calls. The President can't just delegate strategy to a General. He has to be involved. That's his job as the Commander of the military. Be it in a time of peace, or a time of war. There's more to it than just saying "stand down," or "take the first shot."
    strategy is something worked from alot of people..
    im sure ther president whern they attack and kill bill landen he listen the generals strategy,who get the plan and strategy from the commander of the seals,he talk the whole with generals,and the options ,then he talked with his political advisors,VP ,who ever.how this will be for the public,the scenarios what if goes wrong or right the operation,and he gave the ok..
    he did it without have a day served,just fine..as any president will do..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • Who Princess
    Who Princess out here in the fields Posts: 7,305
    brianlux wrote:
    See what I mean? More vitriol.

    Are you old enough to know what people like me who did not serve in Vietnam are like? Do you really thing all of us "hippies" spit on the vets? Do you not know that many of us supported them and still do to this day? Or do you just like spitting venom at old farts like me?
    As a fellow hippie (I wear the term proudly) who was around during the draft and knew and was friends with MANY people who served in Vietnam, I'll say that just as not every hippie was rude to the people who went to war, not every serviceman or woman was subjected to rejection or rude behavior. I'm willing to say most were not. Nobody I knew ever spoke about such treatment. The worst complaint I ever heard from some Vietnam vets was that Hollywood gets it all wrong in the movies. That was in a class I taught at a community college where about a third of my students were vets.

    Not everybody who went to Vietnam was drafted, especially in the early years. I knew many people who enlisted.

    Sheesh, it drives me nuts when somebody who wasn't even around tries to tell me what things were like in a situation. I wouldn't tell my parents' generation what it was like to live through the Depression. I also wouldn't presume to say what the military is like today when I have no experience with it.
    "The stars are all connected to the brain."
  • Flutter Girl
    Flutter Girl Posts: 548
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    Flutter Girl wrote:
    Yea but there's more to it than just making the calls. The President can't just delegate strategy to a General. He has to be involved. That's his job as the Commander of the military. Be it in a time of peace, or a time of war. There's more to it than just saying "stand down," or "take the first shot."
    strategy is something worked from alot of people..
    im sure ther president whern they attack and kill bill landen he listen the generals strategy,who get the plan and strategy from the commander of the seals,he talk the whole with generals,and the options ,then he talked with his political advisors,VP ,who ever.how this will be for the public,the scenarios what if goes wrong or right the operation,and he gave the ok..
    he did it without have a day served,just fine..as any president will do..

    Actually Obama doesn't get it just fine. He ignored his own General and now Iraq and Afghanastan are paying for it. We never should have went to war in the first place. But once you're in, you're in. It's not like they were heading to the store and decided to turn back, no harm no foul. Pulling out too soon has as heavy a consequence as going in to begin with. Iraq is failing cos we left too soon. We haven't even entirely left Afghanastan and it's already starting to fail from leaving too soon. All those troops fought for nothing. All their buddies died in vain. Had Obama served, he'd have known better.
  • dimitrispearljam
    dimitrispearljam Posts: 139,725
    Flutter Girl wrote:
    dimitrispearljam wrote:
    Flutter Girl wrote:
    Yea but there's more to it than just making the calls. The President can't just delegate strategy to a General. He has to be involved. That's his job as the Commander of the military. Be it in a time of peace, or a time of war. There's more to it than just saying "stand down," or "take the first shot."
    strategy is something worked from alot of people..
    im sure ther president whern they attack and kill bill landen he listen the generals strategy,who get the plan and strategy from the commander of the seals,he talk the whole with generals,and the options ,then he talked with his political advisors,VP ,who ever.how this will be for the public,the scenarios what if goes wrong or right the operation,and he gave the ok..
    he did it without have a day served,just fine..as any president will do..

    Actually Obama doesn't get it just fine. He ignored his own General and now Iraq and Afghanastan are paying for it. We never should have went to war in the first place. But once you're in, you're in. It's not like they were heading to the store and decided to turn back, no harm no foul. Pulling out too soon has as heavy a consequence as going in to begin with. Iraq is failing cos we left too soon. We haven't even entirely left Afghanastan and it's already starting to fail from leaving too soon. All those troops fought for nothing. All their buddies died in vain. Had Obama served, he'd have known better.
    at bill landen case he did just fine
    and i agree never should be in war in the first place..and those troops fought for nothing...cos its not your war...
    and let people from Iraq and Afghanastan to worry if their country failing..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • Flutter Girl
    Flutter Girl Posts: 548
    Who Princess wrote:
    As a fellow hippie (I wear the term proudly) who was around during the draft and knew and was friends with MANY people who served in Vietnam, I'll say that just as not every hippie was rude to the people who went to war, not every serviceman or woman was subjected to rejection or rude behavior. I'm willing to say most were not. Nobody I knew ever spoke about such treatment. The worst complaint I ever heard from some Vietnam vets was that Hollywood gets it all wrong in the movies. That was in a class I taught at a community college where about a third of my students were vets.

    Not everybody who went to Vietnam was drafted, especially in the early years. I knew many people who enlisted.

    Sheesh, it drives me nuts when somebody who wasn't even around tries to tell me what things were like in a situation. I wouldn't tell my parents' generation what it was like to live through the Depression. I also wouldn't presume to say what the military is like today when I have no experience with it.

    Again, I never said A-L-L hippies. I did say hippies, simply cos the folks who did that were hippies. I also clearly stated not all who served were drafted. But thanks for putting words in my mouth. And I didn't get my view from hollywood. I got it from the vets. My dad was one who got spit on and treated like crap. And growing up, my mama worked at the VA and was a vet, and my auntie still works there..I was there at least 3 times a week. I've met my fair share of vets and more often than not I got the same story from them as from my dad. And, again, all I had to respond to at the time was what was said and it was not a very supportive or kind statement.

Categories