Except this was a clean block to his shoulder not a launching to a qb's head. He has a chance to make the tackle for fucks sake.
If it was no where near the play then it's unnecessary but it wasn't.
I feel you, I'm a Packers fan and I get pissed fairly often at some of the things Clay does (and not just when they're flagged), I'm by no means advocating for them. However all I heard Clay say was that it was a cheap shot, and it was.
I'm of the mindset that football is about scoring or stopping other people from scoring, he could have stopped Clay from making that tackle about 20 other less violent ways with the same exact result. And it's not like hitting a QB in hopes of spooking him for future downs, if anything you're just gonna piss him off and make him play harder.
I'm not mad about it or anything, I'm just calling a spade a spade. Legal or not, deserved or not, it was a cheap shot.
Except this was a clean block to his shoulder not a launching to a qb's head. He has a chance to make the tackle for fucks sake.
If it was no where near the play then it's unnecessary but it wasn't.
I feel you, I'm a Packers fan and I get pissed fairly often at some of the things Clay does (and not just when they're flagged), I'm by no means advocating for them. However all I heard Clay say was that it was a cheap shot, and it was.
I'm of the mindset that football is about scoring or stopping other people from scoring, he could have stopped Clay from making that tackle about 20 other less violent ways with the same exact result. And it's not like hitting a QB in hopes of spooking him for future downs, if anything you're just gonna piss him off and make him play harder.
I'm not mad about it or anything, I'm just calling a spade a spade. Legal or not, deserved or not, it was a cheap shot.
how was it cheap? how was he supposed to block him without hitting him like that? if he doesn't hit him like that Matthews makes the play. c
So John Harbaugh, and Ozzie Newsome, might be on the hot if the Ravens falter down the stretch?
Hmmmmm
But where does Newsome go? Howie's not going anywhere, and I don't think he'd take orders from Ozzie above him in a higher role either right?
And I don't think they dump Doug yet. I think not being perceived as an impatient organization means something to Lurie. Stepping away and looking from above = first season as a head coach, won 5 games in his first year with a couple more to come, I don't think he does anything impulsive. Chip realllllly pissed him off, and that's about the only thing it would take to get rid of Doug this early. We're getting at least one more year of Milquetoast Doug, most likely two.
what does this even mean? you really think he is going anywhere anytime soon? short of a 3-win season in the next two years he is here for the long haul. Him and Wentz are going to be tied together like Reid and McNabb. buckle up and enjoy it.
Is comprehension a problem? What do you mean what do I mean? They are not tied like Reid and McNabb. I don't know how another year, possibly two, is a means of getting rid of him early. They are not Reid and McNabb - this is an assumption on your part because you expect 10, 11 win-seasons to come. That would be revisionist history. If that happens of course they'll be tied like Reid and McNabb, and if that happens - and we do get anything even remotely close to Reid & McNabb - then I'll be a happy guy. Other than the vacuum you sit in and shout at everyone as if they're Reid/McNabb haters and/or are spawned from sports radio (which is ironic here because I don't think you realize how your tone and purpose comes off in this vein) then A) everyone else doesn't take you seriously & B ) people like me do not need to give you a response (which I usually do not).
I just explained to Juggs here why they wouldn't get rid of either Roseman, and Doug, yet you're ready with your dumb take on things. So if anything my comments were directed towards him, not you, thanks.
Just as Lurie was willing to let Doug and Roseman gamble on the drafting Wentz by selling a ton of picks to build a foundation, he understands the patience to evaluate once Doug/Roseman are given time to build around the QB with picks & free agents in the future.
Furthermore, we see the physical and mental ability from Wentz to be a good-to-great QB under any head coach. Nothing about Doug so far has shown me when you make that statement if you reversed it - though I'll admit he's been very good at adjusting at halftime, but a lot more is left to be questioned. Which is EXACTLY why he'll get , most likely, two more seasons to expand/improve upon what we already doubt.
Except this was a clean block to his shoulder not a launching to a qb's head. He has a chance to make the tackle for fucks sake.
If it was no where near the play then it's unnecessary but it wasn't.
I feel you, I'm a Packers fan and I get pissed fairly often at some of the things Clay does (and not just when they're flagged), I'm by no means advocating for them. However all I heard Clay say was that it was a cheap shot, and it was.
I'm of the mindset that football is about scoring or stopping other people from scoring, he could have stopped Clay from making that tackle about 20 other less violent ways with the same exact result. And it's not like hitting a QB in hopes of spooking him for future downs, if anything you're just gonna piss him off and make him play harder.
I'm not mad about it or anything, I'm just calling a spade a spade. Legal or not, deserved or not, it was a cheap shot.
I completely agree with you about the way it was done. There of plenty of hits like that every week where all a guy has to do is get in another players way instead of laying him out. Crazy that the players don't realize this yet just like celebrating by headbutting each other constantly. Could've been unnecessary roughness but it was so close to the ball I think you have to let that go.
Alright, alright, alright!
Tom O. "I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
Except this was a clean block to his shoulder not a launching to a qb's head. He has a chance to make the tackle for fucks sake.
If it was no where near the play then it's unnecessary but it wasn't.
I feel you, I'm a Packers fan and I get pissed fairly often at some of the things Clay does (and not just when they're flagged), I'm by no means advocating for them. However all I heard Clay say was that it was a cheap shot, and it was.
I'm of the mindset that football is about scoring or stopping other people from scoring, he could have stopped Clay from making that tackle about 20 other less violent ways with the same exact result. And it's not like hitting a QB in hopes of spooking him for future downs, if anything you're just gonna piss him off and make him play harder.
I'm not mad about it or anything, I'm just calling a spade a spade. Legal or not, deserved or not, it was a cheap shot.
how was it cheap? how was he supposed to block him without hitting him like that? if he doesn't hit him like that Matthews makes the play. c
Except this was a clean block to his shoulder not a launching to a qb's head. He has a chance to make the tackle for fucks sake.
If it was no where near the play then it's unnecessary but it wasn't.
I feel you, I'm a Packers fan and I get pissed fairly often at some of the things Clay does (and not just when they're flagged), I'm by no means advocating for them. However all I heard Clay say was that it was a cheap shot, and it was.
I'm of the mindset that football is about scoring or stopping other people from scoring, he could have stopped Clay from making that tackle about 20 other less violent ways with the same exact result. And it's not like hitting a QB in hopes of spooking him for future downs, if anything you're just gonna piss him off and make him play harder.
I'm not mad about it or anything, I'm just calling a spade a spade. Legal or not, deserved or not, it was a cheap shot.
There of plenty of hits like that every week where all a guy has to do is get in another players way instead of laying him out.
Except this was a clean block to his shoulder not a launching to a qb's head. He has a chance to make the tackle for fucks sake.
If it was no where near the play then it's unnecessary but it wasn't.
I feel you, I'm a Packers fan and I get pissed fairly often at some of the things Clay does (and not just when they're flagged), I'm by no means advocating for them. However all I heard Clay say was that it was a cheap shot, and it was.
I'm of the mindset that football is about scoring or stopping other people from scoring, he could have stopped Clay from making that tackle about 20 other less violent ways with the same exact result. And it's not like hitting a QB in hopes of spooking him for future downs, if anything you're just gonna piss him off and make him play harder.
I'm not mad about it or anything, I'm just calling a spade a spade. Legal or not, deserved or not, it was a cheap shot.
I completely agree with you about the way it was done. There of plenty of hits like that every week where all a guy has to do is get in another players way instead of laying him out. Crazy that the players don't realize this yet just like celebrating by headbutting each other constantly. Could've been unnecessary roughness but it was so close to the ball I think you have to let that go.
So John Harbaugh, and Ozzie Newsome, might be on the hot if the Ravens falter down the stretch?
Hmmmmm
But where does Newsome go? Howie's not going anywhere, and I don't think he'd take orders from Ozzie above him in a higher role either right?
And I don't think they dump Doug yet. I think not being perceived as an impatient organization means something to Lurie. Stepping away and looking from above = first season as a head coach, won 5 games in his first year with a couple more to come, I don't think he does anything impulsive. Chip realllllly pissed him off, and that's about the only thing it would take to get rid of Doug this early. We're getting at least one more year of Milquetoast Doug, most likely two.
what does this even mean? you really think he is going anywhere anytime soon? short of a 3-win season in the next two years he is here for the long haul. Him and Wentz are going to be tied together like Reid and McNabb. buckle up and enjoy it.
Is comprehension a problem? What do you mean what do I mean? They are not tied like Reid and McNabb. I don't know how another year, possibly two, is a means of getting rid of him early. They are not Reid and McNabb - this is an assumption on your part because you expect 10, 11 win-seasons to come. That would be revisionist history. If that happens of course they'll be tied like Reid and McNabb, and if that happens - and we do get anything even remotely close to Reid & McNabb - then I'll be a happy guy. Other than the vacuum you sit in and shout at everyone as if they're Reid/McNabb haters and/or are spawned from sports radio (which is ironic here because I don't think you realize how your tone and purpose comes off in this vein) then A) everyone else doesn't take you seriously & B ) people like me do not need to give you a response (which I usually do not).
I just explained to Juggs here why they wouldn't get rid of either Roseman, and Doug, yet you're ready with your dumb take on things. So if anything my comments were directed towards him, not you, thanks.
Just as Lurie was willing to let Doug and Roseman gamble on the drafting Wentz by selling a ton of picks to build a foundation, he understands the patience to evaluate once Doug/Roseman are given time to build around the QB with picks & free agents in the future.
Furthermore, we see the physical and mental ability from Wentz to be a good-to-great QB under any head coach. Nothing about Doug so far has shown me when you make that statement if you reversed it - though I'll admit he's been very good at adjusting at halftime, but a lot more is left to be questioned. Which is EXACTLY why he'll get , most likely, two more seasons to expand/improve upon what we already doubt.
when you make a comment like 'we are getting one more year at least and take a personal shot at the coach' it sure seems like your advocating him not being around does it not?
and what's up with calling people names? are we like 14 still? i mean bad enough you said a guy getting cancer might be a good thing for the Phillies now you have to make a reference to the Eagles coach? is it so hard to be an adult and call him by his name? jeez
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,458
So John Harbaugh, and Ozzie Newsome, might be on the hot if the Ravens falter down the stretch?
Hmmmmm
But where does Newsome go? Howie's not going anywhere, and I don't think he'd take orders from Ozzie above him in a higher role either right?
And I don't think they dump Doug yet. I think not being perceived as an impatient organization means something to Lurie. Stepping away and looking from above = first season as a head coach, won 5 games in his first year with a couple more to come, I don't think he does anything impulsive. Chip realllllly pissed him off, and that's about the only thing it would take to get rid of Doug this early. We're getting at least one more year of Milquetoast Doug, most likely two.
Yeah you're right. I mean it's a pipe dream that has about a .05% chance of happening. Just seems like Ederson is in over his head and if there's a chance to make a huge upgrade like this I'd love for it to happen but, alas, it's not...
So John Harbaugh, and Ozzie Newsome, might be on the hot if the Ravens falter down the stretch?
Hmmmmm
But where does Newsome go? Howie's not going anywhere, and I don't think he'd take orders from Ozzie above him in a higher role either right?
And I don't think they dump Doug yet. I think not being perceived as an impatient organization means something to Lurie. Stepping away and looking from above = first season as a head coach, won 5 games in his first year with a couple more to come, I don't think he does anything impulsive. Chip realllllly pissed him off, and that's about the only thing it would take to get rid of Doug this early. We're getting at least one more year of Milquetoast Doug, most likely two.
Yeah you're right. I mean it's a pipe dream that has about a .05% chance of happening. Just seems like Ederson is in over his head and if there's a chance to make a huge upgrade like this I'd love for it to happen but, alas, it's not...
so you predicted a 5 or 6 win season with a veteran QB expected to start. with a rookie qb, 2nd best lineman out for 10 games, and after the 1st two games a brutal schedule yet they are 5-6 and the coach is in over his head? well all righty then. let's hope your track record on eagles coaches stays in tact though. the last one you thought was revolutionizing the game right? i wonder how the grass looks now that the players are allowed to walk on it again at practice.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,458
So John Harbaugh, and Ozzie Newsome, might be on the hot if the Ravens falter down the stretch?
Hmmmmm
But where does Newsome go? Howie's not going anywhere, and I don't think he'd take orders from Ozzie above him in a higher role either right?
And I don't think they dump Doug yet. I think not being perceived as an impatient organization means something to Lurie. Stepping away and looking from above = first season as a head coach, won 5 games in his first year with a couple more to come, I don't think he does anything impulsive. Chip realllllly pissed him off, and that's about the only thing it would take to get rid of Doug this early. We're getting at least one more year of Milquetoast Doug, most likely two.
Yeah you're right. I mean it's a pipe dream that has about a .05% chance of happening. Just seems like Ederson is in over his head and if there's a chance to make a huge upgrade like this I'd love for it to happen but, alas, it's not...
so you predicted a 5 or 6 win season with a veteran QB expected to start. with a rookie qb, 2nd best lineman out for 10 games, and after the 1st two games a brutal schedule yet they are 5-6 and the coach is in over his head? well all righty then. let's hope your track record on eagles coaches stays in tact though. the last one you thought was revolutionizing the game right? i wonder how the grass looks now that the players are allowed to walk on it again at practice.
Ha....really? I didn't like the hire from day one. Yes, he got off to a great start and I'd love for that magic to come back. But if such a unique opportunity presents itself to hire a guy like Harbaugh, who I wanted to originally replace Reid way, way back in the day, I'd love for that to happen. But, as JP and I both said, the chances are minuscule, so it's pointless to have this convo right now....
And, really, just change your name to PJHotTakes and be done with it. You're the love child of Angelo Cataldi and Skip Bayless wrapped up in a giant puddle of poop. Doug Pederson and Carson Wentz are already joined at the hip just like Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb? At this point?? I mean, what an insult to possibly the best coach and qb in the team's history (especially ironic coming from you). Of course, we'd all like them to eclipse the success those two had and actually win a championship, but that is an incredibly, distinctly Philadelphia sports radio short sided argument. It's like saying Chuck Pagano is joined at Andrew Luck 's hip just because he was his first coach. Not likely.
Pederson would be smart to replicate his mentor's masterful way of easing Donovan McNabb into the NFL. He didn't have his rookie qb throwing 40+ times a game to a similarly under talented receiving corps. Hopefully he goes back to a more balanced attack today as the team had their only success with that game plan.
Oh and by the way, the Eagles along with plenty of other teams in all different sports now still utilize sports science. Scaled it back a bit but they still use it and even retained the Director of Sports Science and Conditioning that Chip hired. As opposed to "fast food Fridays" and "taco Tuesdays" it just makes sense for professional athletes to take advantage of today's technology to better take care of their bodies http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelphia-eagles/eagles-scale-back-keep-chip-kelly-sports-science-program-doug-pederson
So John Harbaugh, and Ozzie Newsome, might be on the hot if the Ravens falter down the stretch?
Hmmmmm
But where does Newsome go? Howie's not going anywhere, and I don't think he'd take orders from Ozzie above him in a higher role either right?
And I don't think they dump Doug yet. I think not being perceived as an impatient organization means something to Lurie. Stepping away and looking from above = first season as a head coach, won 5 games in his first year with a couple more to come, I don't think he does anything impulsive. Chip realllllly pissed him off, and that's about the only thing it would take to get rid of Doug this early. We're getting at least one more year of Milquetoast Doug, most likely two.
Yeah you're right. I mean it's a pipe dream that has about a .05% chance of happening. Just seems like Ederson is in over his head and if there's a chance to make a huge upgrade like this I'd love for it to happen but, alas, it's not...
so you predicted a 5 or 6 win season with a veteran QB expected to start. with a rookie qb, 2nd best lineman out for 10 games, and after the 1st two games a brutal schedule yet they are 5-6 and the coach is in over his head? well all righty then. let's hope your track record on eagles coaches stays in tact though. the last one you thought was revolutionizing the game right? i wonder how the grass looks now that the players are allowed to walk on it again at practice.
Ha....really? I didn't like the hire from day one. Yes, he got off to a great start and I'd love for that magic to come back. But if such a unique opportunity presents itself to hire a guy like Harbaugh, who I wanted to originally replace Reid way, way back in the day, I'd love for that to happen. But, as JP and I both said, the chances are minuscule, so it's pointless to have this convo right now....
And, really, just change your name to PJHotTakes and be done with it. You're the love child of Angelo Cataldi and Skip Bayless wrapped up in a giant puddle of poop. Doug Pederson and Carson Wentz are already joined at the hip just like Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb? At this point?? I mean, what an insult to possibly the best coach and qb in the team's history (especially ironic coming from you). Of course, we'd all like them to eclipse the success those two had and actually win a championship, but that is an incredibly, distinctly Philadelphia sports radio short sided argument. It's like saying Chuck Pagano is joined at Andrew Luck 's hip just because he was his first coach. Not likely.
Pederson would be smart to replicate his mentor's masterful way of easing Donovan McNabb into the NFL. He didn't have his rookie qb throwing 40+ times a game to a similarly under talented receiving corps. Hopefully he goes back to a more balanced attack today as the team had their only success with that game plan.
Oh and by the way, the Eagles along with plenty of other teams in all different sports now still utilize sports science. Scaled it back a bit but they still use it and even retained the Director of Sports Science and Conditioning that Chip hired. As opposed to "fast food Fridays" and "taco Tuesdays" it just makes sense for professional athletes to take advantage of today's technology to better take care of their bodies http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelphia-eagles/eagles-scale-back-keep-chip-kelly-sports-science-program-doug-pederson
So John Harbaugh, and Ozzie Newsome, might be on the hot if the Ravens falter down the stretch?
Hmmmmm
But where does Newsome go? Howie's not going anywhere, and I don't think he'd take orders from Ozzie above him in a higher role either right?
And I don't think they dump Doug yet. I think not being perceived as an impatient organization means something to Lurie. Stepping away and looking from above = first season as a head coach, won 5 games in his first year with a couple more to come, I don't think he does anything impulsive. Chip realllllly pissed him off, and that's about the only thing it would take to get rid of Doug this early. We're getting at least one more year of Milquetoast Doug, most likely two.
Yeah you're right. I mean it's a pipe dream that has about a .05% chance of happening. Just seems like Ederson is in over his head and if there's a chance to make a huge upgrade like this I'd love for it to happen but, alas, it's not...
so you predicted a 5 or 6 win season with a veteran QB expected to start. with a rookie qb, 2nd best lineman out for 10 games, and after the 1st two games a brutal schedule yet they are 5-6 and the coach is in over his head? well all righty then. let's hope your track record on eagles coaches stays in tact though. the last one you thought was revolutionizing the game right? i wonder how the grass looks now that the players are allowed to walk on it again at practice.
Ha....really? I didn't like the hire from day one. Yes, he got off to a great start and I'd love for that magic to come back. But if such a unique opportunity presents itself to hire a guy like Harbaugh, who I wanted to originally replace Reid way, way back in the day, I'd love for that to happen. But, as JP and I both said, the chances are minuscule, so it's pointless to have this convo right now....
And, really, just change your name to PJHotTakes and be done with it. You're the love child of Angelo Cataldi and Skip Bayless wrapped up in a giant puddle of poop. Doug Pederson and Carson Wentz are already joined at the hip just like Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb? At this point?? I mean, what an insult to possibly the best coach and qb in the team's history (especially ironic coming from you). Of course, we'd all like them to eclipse the success those two had and actually win a championship, but that is an incredibly, distinctly Philadelphia sports radio short sided argument. It's like saying Chuck Pagano is joined at Andrew Luck 's hip just because he was his first coach. Not likely.
Pederson would be smart to replicate his mentor's masterful way of easing Donovan McNabb into the NFL. He didn't have his rookie qb throwing 40+ times a game to a similarly under talented receiving corps. Hopefully he goes back to a more balanced attack today as the team had their only success with that game plan.
Oh and by the way, the Eagles along with plenty of other teams in all different sports now still utilize sports science. Scaled it back a bit but they still use it and even retained the Director of Sports Science and Conditioning that Chip hired. As opposed to "fast food Fridays" and "taco Tuesdays" it just makes sense for professional athletes to take advantage of today's technology to better take care of their bodies http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelphia-eagles/eagles-scale-back-keep-chip-kelly-sports-science-program-doug-pederson
Go Birds
Harbaugh is .500 in his last 4 years. Obviously Pederson's trajectory is still to be determined but let's not treat Harbaugh like Bellichek or well Andy who is going to win 10 games again.
edit: Wentz 392 passes in 11 games for an average 35.63 passes per game. McNabb's 1st full season as a starter 569 passes in 16 games for...wait for it...35.56 passes per game. god i love the fucking internet
Post edited by pjhawks on
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,458
edited December 2016
Oh, PjHotTakes.....gee, I wonder why you completely ignored the first 6 games of Donovan's career as a starter....
Looks like the Bengals dont want this game either.
And so you see, I have come to doubt All that I once held as true I stand alone without beliefs The only truth I know is you.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,458
edited December 2016
9 straight games without scoring more than 2 touchdowns. Longest streak since 1998.
Also.....Wentz's 60 PASS ATTEMPTS are the second most in NFL HISTORY by a rookie. Chris Weinke holds the the dubious record of 63 back in 2001. Pederson is going to get this kid killed.
9 straight games without scoring more than 2 touchdowns. Longest streak since 1998.
Also.....Wentz's 60 PASS ATTEMPTS are the second most in NFL HISTORY by a rookie. Chris Weinke holds the the dubious record of 63 back in 2001. Pederson is going to get this kid killed.
"Should've passed the ball more! " --pjhottakes
moronic to blame or give 2 shits about the play calling when the defense got absolutely torched by an average offense playing without their best receiver. not sure why i would expect any different though.
9 straight games without scoring more than 2 touchdowns. Longest streak since 1998.
Also.....Wentz's 60 PASS ATTEMPTS are the second most in NFL HISTORY by a rookie. Chris Weinke holds the the dubious record of 63 back in 2001. Pederson is going to get this kid killed.
"Should've passed the ball more! " --pjhottakes
moronic to blame or give 2 shits about the play calling when the defense got absolutely torched by an average offense playing without their best receiver. not sure why i would expect any different though.
So because the defense was horrible, that completely absolves the head coach from calling a bad game on offense again...sound logic right there. All 3 phases, this team was woefully unprepared for an inferior team and quit until they made a few plays in garbage time. But, yeah, that's not on the head coach at all.
By the way, "moronic?" Hey, come on man! Cool it with the insults. What are you 14?
It was a great weekend for my water heater to blow, flooding half my basement, so I din't have to see a play of the game. Except i Ertz's matador move on Burfict, what a pussy!
Alright, alright, alright!
Tom O. "I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,458
Eagles Wake-Up Call: Carson Wentz Is Not Being Set Up For Success
The Eagles need to help out their rookie quarterback.
To say Carson Wentz didn’t play well during the Eagles’ 32 to 14 loss to the Bengals would be putting it lightly.
The rookie passer threw three interceptions and had three more dropped. Wentz had six of his passes batted down at the line of scrimmage. He averaged a mere 5.1 yards per attempt and finished with a 58.2 passer rating.
Much like the Eagles as a whole, Wentz has really cooled off after getting off to such a great start this season. It was less than two months ago when he had won NFL Rookie of the Week for the third time. He also took home NFL Offensive Rookie of the Month and NFC Offensive Player of the Week awards.
So what happened?
One key number from the Eagles’ loss to the Bengals helps to explain why the rookie quarterback has regressed.
60.
That’s how many times Wentz had to throw the ball against Cincinnati, who owned the NFL’s 28th-ranked run defense, on Sunday. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that’s simply not a formula for success.
In their first six games of the year, Wentz averaged 30.8 pass attempts per game. The Eagles were 4-2 in that span, which included the Detroit game that they gave away. In their last six game, Wentz has averaged 39.2 pass attempts per game. The Birds are 1-5 in that stretch.
Part of the reason the Eagles have had to throw so much is because they’ve gotten behind early in games. It’s obviously hard to rely on the running game when you’re trailing.
Injuries have also forced the Eagles to get away from the run. Philadelphia’s offensive line has been banged up. Ryan Mathews has predictably missed time due to injury and Darren Sproles understandably looks less effective while playing through a broken rib.
But whether it’s by circumstance or design, it’s clear the Eagles have been asking too much of a rookie quarterback who they originally didn’t plan on playing this year. They simply can’t ask him to throw the ball this often and expect him to have success.
It’s painfully clear that Wentz doesn’t have many quality receiving options to work with, especially when leading receiver Jordan Matthews isn’t active. Philadelphia’s leading receiver against the Bengals was undrafted rookie free agent Paul Turner, who spent most of the season on the practice squad and was only playing in his second game. It bears repeating: Wentz needs more weapons.
The importance of having a strong run game also can’t be understated. Remember how Nick Foles once went 27-2? It’s no coincidence LeSean McCoy led the league in rushing that season. If one is looking for a more recent example, look at how Dak Prescott is having success in Dallas. The rookie fourth-round pick is operating behind a strong offensive line that has also paved the way for NFL MVP candidate Ezekiel Elliott. The Cowboys rank second to last in pass attempts per game.
The bad news for the Eagles is they likely won’t be able to fix their talent issues any time soon. Those improvements will need to be made in the offseason. In the meantime, the Eagles have four games left. The team would like to see progress from their rookie quarterback, but it’s going to be hard to expect Wentz to rebound if he has to continue to throw more often than he should.
Wentz can’t be completely absolved of his struggles. A lack of talent around him doesn’t fully explain why the rookie quarterback is continuing to sail passes over the head of his receivers and right into the arms of defenders. This is an issue that has been apparent with Wentz dating back to offseason practices.
“It’s strictly mechanics,” said Doug Pederson of Wentz’s overthrows. “It’s the fact that we have to get him off his back foot and get him stepping into the throws and trusting the decision down the field. There were opportunities, obviously. Again, he’s a young quarterback who missed a lot of time in the preseason, but now we just need to keep cleaning these things up.”
The Eagles’ rookie quarterback doesn’t seem to be on the same page as Pederson, though.
“I don’t think it’s the mechanics,” said Wentz. “You make mistakes. Things happen, and that’s just the bottom line.”
Whatever the issue is, everyone can agree that Wentz needs to be better. The Eagles can make that happen by putting him in better positions to succeed. They probably won’t be able to do that down the stretch this season, but it should obviously be their goal moving forward.
Though it hasn’t always been pretty, Wentz has shown franchise quarterback potential this season. It’s up to the organization to build around him and give him the help he needs.
as i said last week Wentz wasn't very good but what do people expect with this offense without their top running back, top receiver, 2nd best tackle and his replacement? media and fans constantly rip the lack of talent on offense...then complain that they haven't scored more points? what the hell do you people expect? it's not complicated, they lack fucking talent on offense mostly because the previous genius coach got rid our 2 best receivers.
hey Juggler do we miss DeSean Jackson yet? another one of your famous proclamations during your chip love fest.
the same people all over the current coach slobbered over the previous coach and ran the best coach in franchise history out of town. as i said back then it was going to be awfully hard to find someone better. being proven again as Andy rolls to 10+ wins again.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,458
edited December 2016
Everyone knows they lack talent...so it's up to the coach to work with what he has. Throwing the ball 60 times with a rookie QB against a team ranked 28th against the run is a bit counterintuitive and is stunting Wentz's growth. To not see that is...par for the course for HotTakes.
Pederson would be wise to go back to what worked earlier in the year and to what he saw what worked with Donovan 17 years ago.
Everyone knows they lack talent...so it's up to the coach to work with what he has. Throwing the ball 60 times with a rookie QB against a team ranked 28th against the run is a bit counterintuitive and is stunting Wentz's growth. To not see that is...par for the course for HotTakes.
Pederson would be wise to go back to what worked earlier in the year and to what he saw what worked with Donovan 17 years ago.
the way the games went the last two weeks dictated the number of passes. not the game plans. no coach in the NFL would run the more down 29-0. it wouldn't happen. yes, ideally 60 passes is far to many for any QB, let a alone a rookie. game situations as i pointed out last week dictated more passes. really it's not complicated.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,458
Everyone knows they lack talent...so it's up to the coach to work with what he has. Throwing the ball 60 times with a rookie QB against a team ranked 28th against the run is a bit counterintuitive and is stunting Wentz's growth. To not see that is...par for the course for HotTakes.
Pederson would be wise to go back to what worked earlier in the year and to what he saw what worked with Donovan 17 years ago.
the way the games went the last two weeks dictated the number of passes. not the game plans. no coach in the NFL would run the more down 29-0. it wouldn't happen. yes, ideally 60 passes is far to many for any QB, let a alone a rookie. game situations as i pointed out last week dictated more passes. really it's not complicated.
You act like they started the game down 29 points. It was a 2 score game until seconds before half time. That is what's considered still close. They called 19 pass plays to 11 runs. The only sustained drive they had (with the missed field goal) not surprising to everyone but you was the only drive where they ran it more than 3 times.
Against Atlanta in the first half they threw it 15 times and ran 12. The only sustained drive they had (their only touchdown of the half) came early when they ran it 7 times.
The only way this team will have any success (it won't be much) and the way to protect and develop your young qb is to lean on the rushing attack just like Reid did with McNabb very early in his rookie season.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,458
There's something wrong with Carson Wentz's throwing style and NFL teams are catching on Charles RobinsonDecember 5, 2016
Carson Wentz doesn’t believe he has issues with his throwing mechanics. Some NFL evaluators disagree.
That was the takeaway after the Philadelphia Eagles’ 32-14 loss to the Cincinnati Bengals on Sunday, which featured a three-interception outing from Wentz and one of his worst performances of his rookie season. The quarterback has come back to earth after a stunning 3-0 start to the season. Now several personnel evaluators familiar with the Eagles and Wentz are pointing to a common thread, one that the quarterback and coaching staff may not share agreement.
The Eagles have some work to do on Wentz’s throwing motion. Carson Wentz had another rough Sunday, this one resulting in a 36-of-60 outing against the Bengals. (AP)
That’s the common theme in the assessments of multiple NFL personnel evaluators who say Wentz is exhibiting some of the mechanical flaws that he illustrated prior to the NFL draft. And evaluators say they are manifesting in accuracy issues and the length of time it takes for Wentz to deliver the ball after making a decision.
#Eagles Wentz doesn't see his mechanics as a problem. #NFL personnel evaluators disagree. Here's 1-yr progression, including 2 INTs Sunday. pic.twitter.com/Ptwg5yKOTn
Wentz didn’t seem to agree with such an assessment on Sunday, when he said his mistakes were garden-variety errors that are prone to happen when throwing the football frequently. Wentz made 60 attempts on Sunday and completed 36 passes.
“I don’t think it’s the mechanics,” Wentz said after Sunday’s loss. “You make mistakes. Things happen.”
But a handful of personnel evaluators who spoke to Yahoo Sports over the past week about Wentz’s mechanics said his throwing motion is showing up prominently on film. They also believe it’s leading to some accuracy issues and mistakes. Two issues in particular are sticking out to those who have viewed the rookie quarterback: a long-armed looping windup that needs to be more compact; and an awkward arm position in the middle of his throwing motion that is slowing down his delivery.
One NFC East source likened Wentz’s arm positioning to something from a baseball pitcher. Another evaluator said the rookie displayed “bountiful bad arm angles” during his throwing motion.
“[The] ball is dropped down, turned out, then looped back around,” one evaluator said. “With his long arms and that motion, [it’s] very hard to be accurate. Especially on the move. … [The] inability to get the ball out quick and on time is key.”
The motion was also something that concerned the Cleveland Browns in their scouting evaluations of Wentz, prior to their trading of the No. 2 overall pick to the Eagles. A Browns source told Yahoo Sports Wentz’s motion was noted in draft evaluations – though he also maintained trading the No. 2 pick was more about netting draft picks than not liking Wentz.
Interestingly, a league source told Yahoo Sports that restyling Wentz’s throwing motion was an important bullet point on the Eagles’ offseason docket, but that the team was able to make only marginal progress before the start of the regular season. According to the source, those efforts were spearheaded by Eagles head coach Doug Pederson and offensive coordinator Frank Reich, both former NFL quarterbacks.
As the process moved along, there was a hope to continue developing Wentz during a “redshirt” rookie season. However, that timeline changed when Wentz was elevated from No. 3 quarterback to starter following the Eagles’ trade of Sam Bradford to the Minnesota Vikings. The source said the Eagles realized at that point that any serious strides to refine Wentz’s motion were likely going to have to wait until next offseason.
In essence, this was supposed to be the season when the Eagles drilled down on his mechanics and worked the kinks out. That was taken off the table, and now evaluators are attributing some of his struggles to that reality.
Some of that has also become a more pressing topic in Philadelphia, as the Eagles have stumbled to 5-7 and last in the NFC East – with Wentz being a part of those struggles. During that 3-0 start, Wentz threw five touchdowns and no interceptions. In the 2-7 stretch that has ensued, Wentz’s touchdown-to-interception ratio has been 7-to-11. While the mistakes and losses have come from a variety of issues, the work needed for Wentz has been showcased in some of his individual miscues.
This could be seen in the loss to the Bengals, when his long, looped throwing motion was particularly evident in at least two of his interceptions. In them, Wentz’s windup was so pronounced that he dropped the ball to (or below) his waist – something that was a notable trait in some of his college film. It’s a flaw considered fixable (or at least improvable) and it’s most commonly addressed by teams in the offseason.
“Augmenting [a throwing motion] is a lot of process, process, process. A lot of repetition. And it can be incremental – maybe even several years,” one evaluator said. “There is some elimination involved that can wreak havoc with a quarterback mentally. So you have to be careful with it – try some things and if the changes start making problems worse, you move on to something else. That’s why it’s an offseason thing because you need the time to be deliberate. … It’s not easy. You can tinker and get really bad [results].”
The Eagles may not be at that point with Wentz, but it appears the offseason bullet point is still there. That 3-0 start is in the rear-view mirror. Now it’s the 2-7 fall speaking most loudly. There is plenty of work left for Wentz and his throwing motion. And Philadelphia can probably see it more clearly than anyone.
Everyone knows they lack talent...so it's up to the coach to work with what he has. Throwing the ball 60 times with a rookie QB against a team ranked 28th against the run is a bit counterintuitive and is stunting Wentz's growth. To not see that is...par for the course for HotTakes.
Pederson would be wise to go back to what worked earlier in the year and to what he saw what worked with Donovan 17 years ago.
the way the games went the last two weeks dictated the number of passes. not the game plans. no coach in the NFL would run the more down 29-0. it wouldn't happen. yes, ideally 60 passes is far to many for any QB, let a alone a rookie. game situations as i pointed out last week dictated more passes. really it's not complicated.
You act like they started the game down 29 points. It was a 2 score game until seconds before half time. That is what's considered still close. They called 19 pass plays to 11 runs. The only sustained drive they had (with the missed field goal) not surprising to everyone but you was the only drive where they ran it more than 3 times.
Against Atlanta in the first half they threw it 15 times and ran 12. The only sustained drive they had (their only touchdown of the half) came early when they ran it 7 times.
The only way this team will have any success (it won't be much) and the way to protect and develop your young qb is to lean on the rushing attack just like Reid did with McNabb very early in his rookie season.
the Jets got thumped last night and threw the ball on 73% of their plays. i wonder if their fans are obsessed with that run/pass ratio. as i said, that is what NFL teams when they get down.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,458
edited December 2016
The Jets are an atrocious football team. The fact that you are using what they do to support your point, should tell you how terrible your point is.
Two seasons is not a lot of time, but it's more than enough to come to this conclusion: The Jets need to fire Todd Bowles.
Why give him a third year when 28 games into his head coaching career he has proven he's not the right man to end the Jets nearly half-century Super Bowl drought? No need to make a bad situation even worse. This is a multi-billion dollar business and you can't give away seasons.
Nice man, good defensive coordinator in Arizona, over-his-head head coach in New York.
Time again for another change.
Nobody's safe after Jets are unacceptably bad in 41-10 loss
Is Bowles worried the 3-9 record, which could be on the way to 3-13, will get him fired?
"No," he said. Todd Bowles may have coached his way out of a job after the Jets' Monday night loss to the Colts. (Robert Sabo/New York Daily News)
He should be worried.
Does he think his job is in jeopardy?
Andrew Luck has a field day against Jets defense
"You know your job is in jeopardy when you take one of these jobs," he said.
Bowles' game management skills put the Jets at a competitive disadvantage nearly every week. I don't see him growing into this job.
He has divorced himself from the offense, the downfall in the six years of Rex Ryan. Bowles has no feel how to handle his quarterbacks - he decided before Monday night's humiliating 41-10 loss to the Colts that Bryce Petty would start the final four games of the season even if Ryan Fitzpatrick beat Indy 45-0.
Should the @nyjets fire Todd Bowles? — NY Daily News Sports (@NYDNSports) December 6, 2016
Naturally, he didn't have to worry about being second-guessed about switching after a 45-0 victory because these Jets don't seem capable of winning another game. Instead, he accelerated his QB timetable and put in Petty at the half. Of course, Petty threw two picks.
Mid-game adjustments are just not his thing. He looks lost on the sideline. He rarely shows fire, although he did f-bomb his defensive line in the first half Monday night. Finally, a pulse.
"Too many cuss words to mention," he said.
He sounds comatose at this news conferences and weekly spot on the radio. Is that important? It's how he communicates to Jets Nation and his lack of passion inspires no confidence.
Football teams reflect the personality of their head coach. The Jets don't have much of a personality.
Bowles said after the game, "For the first time this year, we got our ass handed to us." Then he said, "I think they kicked our ass. I don't think we showed a lot of effort," followed by, "We got our ass handed to us," and then, "I just know we got our ass kicked."
He's got it all figured out.
Wellington Mara used to say he could handle Giants fans booing, but it was the apathy represented by empty seats that would signal the right time to make a change. The crowd at Met Life Stadium on Monday night was announced as 78,160. It appeared to be an invitation-only audience with only about 40,000-45,000 actually using their tickets.
Huge pockets of empty seats were all over. Upper deck seats were selling for $5 - that's $5 - on the secondary market Monday. Jets owner Woody Johnson entertained vice president- elect Mike Pence, the governor of Indiana, in his suite. It had to be humiliating for Johnson that his team played its worst game of the season against Pence's team and the Jets fans showed their disgust by not even bothering to show up.
Johnson is reportedly under consideration to become the ambassador to Great Britain. The job would certainly require him spending a majority of his time out of the country. It might be in the best interest of his health if he spent football seasons abroad. The farther away he is from this slop, the better off he will be.
The Jets not only stink, as their 3-9 record solidly attests, they give no effort. Muhammad Wilkerson fought for years for a big contract, finally got one, and has mailed in the season. Darrelle Revis has taken early retirement on game day. The Jets desperately tried to dump Sheldon Richardson at the trade deadline. These were supposed to be foundation players. Bowles couldn't get any of them to play.
In the third quarter, two knucklehead shirtless fans ran on the field. The state trooper who took down one fan and the security guard who took down the other showed better tackling form and more desire and passion than the Jets defense, which was carved up by Andrew Luck, just three days out of concussion protocol.
Bowles put together a 10-6 record in his rookie season taking over a 4-12 team from Ryan. He benefitted from a career year by Ryan Fitzpatrick and an easy schedule.
All the Jets had to do to make the playoffs was beat a dysfunctional team coached by Ryan in the final game in Buffalo. The Bills had their bags packed, but Bowles didn't have the Jets ready to play. Fitzpatrick threw away the playoffs with interceptions on the final three possessions of the season.
As a result, the Jets had no momentum to carry into this season when their schedule early-on was brutal. It's tough for Jets fans to show their faces after a loss like that. It's tough for Jets fans to show their faces after a loss like that. (Al Bello/Getty Images)
Bowles, like every Jets coach before him for the last 40 years, has been handcuffed by not having a franchise quarterback. He compounded the problem by handing his offense to Chan Gailey, an old-school coach in a high-tech offensive era. Bowles did not put together a great staff.
He hasn't been helped by GM Mike Maccagnan, who was hand-picked for the job by former Washington and Texans GM Charley Casserly. Maccagnan worked for Casserly in both spots. Bowles was also a Casserly choice. Bowles was not Maccagnan's choice.
Johnson decided on Bowles and then picked Maccagnan. He didn't learn from his mistake of forcing John Idzik to inherit Ryan.
Maccagnan gave his approval to Bowles. He really had no choice. He wanted this job and nobody else was hiring Maccagnan as a GM. Maccagnan can't find a QB. He picked Petty in the fourth round in 2015 and Christian Hackenberg in the second round this year. Petty isn't good enough and Hackenberg can't get a uniform on game day.
The Jets last six head coaches have all been from the defensive side. They need an offensive coach in an offensive era. They haven't hired a head coach with prior NFL head coaching experience since Bill Parcells in 1997. Johnson keeps hiring rookies.
Two years is enough for Bowles, and once again, it's time for the Jets to start over.
Comments
I'm of the mindset that football is about scoring or stopping other people from scoring, he could have stopped Clay from making that tackle about 20 other less violent ways with the same exact result. And it's not like hitting a QB in hopes of spooking him for future downs, if anything you're just gonna piss him off and make him play harder.
I'm not mad about it or anything, I'm just calling a spade a spade. Legal or not, deserved or not, it was a cheap shot.
I just explained to Juggs here why they wouldn't get rid of either Roseman, and Doug, yet you're ready with your dumb take on things. So if anything my comments were directed towards him, not you, thanks.
Just as Lurie was willing to let Doug and Roseman gamble on the drafting Wentz by selling a ton of picks to build a foundation, he understands the patience to evaluate once Doug/Roseman are given time to build around the QB with picks & free agents in the future.
Furthermore, we see the physical and mental ability from Wentz to be a good-to-great QB under any head coach. Nothing about Doug so far has shown me when you make that statement if you reversed it - though I'll admit he's been very good at adjusting at halftime, but a lot more is left to be questioned. Which is EXACTLY why he'll get , most likely, two more seasons to expand/improve upon what we already doubt.
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
and what's up with calling people names? are we like 14 still? i mean bad enough you said a guy getting cancer might be a good thing for the Phillies now you have to make a reference to the Eagles coach? is it so hard to be an adult and call him by his name? jeez
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
And, really, just change your name to PJHotTakes and be done with it. You're the love child of Angelo Cataldi and Skip Bayless wrapped up in a giant puddle of poop. Doug Pederson and Carson Wentz are already joined at the hip just like Andy Reid and Donovan McNabb? At this point?? I mean, what an insult to possibly the best coach and qb in the team's history (especially ironic coming from you). Of course, we'd all like them to eclipse the success those two had and actually win a championship, but that is an incredibly, distinctly Philadelphia sports radio short sided argument. It's like saying Chuck Pagano is joined at Andrew Luck 's hip just because he was his first coach. Not likely.
Pederson would be smart to replicate his mentor's masterful way of easing Donovan McNabb into the NFL. He didn't have his rookie qb throwing 40+ times a game to a similarly under talented receiving corps. Hopefully he goes back to a more balanced attack today as the team had their only success with that game plan.
Oh and by the way, the Eagles along with plenty of other teams in all different sports now still utilize sports science. Scaled it back a bit but they still use it and even retained the Director of Sports Science and Conditioning that Chip hired. As opposed to "fast food Fridays" and "taco Tuesdays" it just makes sense for professional athletes to take advantage of today's technology to better take care of their bodies
http://www.csnphilly.com/philadelphia-eagles/eagles-scale-back-keep-chip-kelly-sports-science-program-doug-pederson
Go Birds
edit: Wentz 392 passes in 11 games for an average 35.63 passes per game. McNabb's 1st full season as a starter 569 passes in 16 games for...wait for it...35.56 passes per game. god i love the fucking internet
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/McNaDo00/gamelog/1999/
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WentCa00/gamelog/2016/
Don's 1st 11 starts/pass attempts:
21, 36, 28, 31, 17, 32, 28, 33, 31, 32, 44 =30 avg.....once over 40
Carson's 1st 11 starts/pass attempts:
37, 34, 31, 33, 22, 28, 43, 47, 36, 45, 36 =36 avg....three times over 40
Hopefully Doug gets back on track today. Go back to what worked earlier in the season.
This game is actually comical...feels like I'm watching the 2012 Eagles.
Ugh...
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
Also.....Wentz's 60 PASS ATTEMPTS are the second most in NFL HISTORY by a rookie. Chris Weinke holds the the dubious record of 63 back in 2001. Pederson is going to get this kid killed.
"Should've passed the ball more! " --pjhottakes
8/28/98- Camden, NJ
10/31/09- Philly
5/21/10- NYC
9/2/12- Philly, PA
7/19/13- Wrigley
10/19/13- Brooklyn, NY
10/21/13- Philly, PA
10/22/13- Philly, PA
10/27/13- Baltimore, MD
Tres Mts.- 3/23/11- Philly
Eddie Vedder- 6/25/11- Philly
and i love the name calling. so mature. i swear some of you guys are 14 years old
By the way, "moronic?" Hey, come on man! Cool it with the insults. What are you 14?
Tom O.
"I never had any friends later on like the ones I had when I was twelve. Jesus, does anyone?"
-The Writer
Eagles Wake-Up Call: Carson Wentz Is Not Being Set Up For Success
The Eagles need to help out their rookie quarterback.
To say Carson Wentz didn’t play well during the Eagles’ 32 to 14 loss to the Bengals would be putting it lightly.
The rookie passer threw three interceptions and had three more dropped. Wentz had six of his passes batted down at the line of scrimmage. He averaged a mere 5.1 yards per attempt and finished with a 58.2 passer rating.
Much like the Eagles as a whole, Wentz has really cooled off after getting off to such a great start this season. It was less than two months ago when he had won NFL Rookie of the Week for the third time. He also took home NFL Offensive Rookie of the Month and NFC Offensive Player of the Week awards.
So what happened?
One key number from the Eagles’ loss to the Bengals helps to explain why the rookie quarterback has regressed.
60.
That’s how many times Wentz had to throw the ball against Cincinnati, who owned the NFL’s 28th-ranked run defense, on Sunday. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that’s simply not a formula for success.
In their first six games of the year, Wentz averaged 30.8 pass attempts per game. The Eagles were 4-2 in that span, which included the Detroit game that they gave away. In their last six game, Wentz has averaged 39.2 pass attempts per game. The Birds are 1-5 in that stretch.
Part of the reason the Eagles have had to throw so much is because they’ve gotten behind early in games. It’s obviously hard to rely on the running game when you’re trailing.
Injuries have also forced the Eagles to get away from the run. Philadelphia’s offensive line has been banged up. Ryan Mathews has predictably missed time due to injury and Darren Sproles understandably looks less effective while playing through a broken rib.
But whether it’s by circumstance or design, it’s clear the Eagles have been asking too much of a rookie quarterback who they originally didn’t plan on playing this year. They simply can’t ask him to throw the ball this often and expect him to have success.
It’s painfully clear that Wentz doesn’t have many quality receiving options to work with, especially when leading receiver Jordan Matthews isn’t active. Philadelphia’s leading receiver against the Bengals was undrafted rookie free agent Paul Turner, who spent most of the season on the practice squad and was only playing in his second game. It bears repeating: Wentz needs more weapons.
The importance of having a strong run game also can’t be understated. Remember how Nick Foles once went 27-2? It’s no coincidence LeSean McCoy led the league in rushing that season. If one is looking for a more recent example, look at how Dak Prescott is having success in Dallas. The rookie fourth-round pick is operating behind a strong offensive line that has also paved the way for NFL MVP candidate Ezekiel Elliott. The Cowboys rank second to last in pass attempts per game.
The bad news for the Eagles is they likely won’t be able to fix their talent issues any time soon. Those improvements will need to be made in the offseason. In the meantime, the Eagles have four games left. The team would like to see progress from their rookie quarterback, but it’s going to be hard to expect Wentz to rebound if he has to continue to throw more often than he should.
Wentz can’t be completely absolved of his struggles. A lack of talent around him doesn’t fully explain why the rookie quarterback is continuing to sail passes over the head of his receivers and right into the arms of defenders. This is an issue that has been apparent with Wentz dating back to offseason practices.
“It’s strictly mechanics,” said Doug Pederson of Wentz’s overthrows. “It’s the fact that we have to get him off his back foot and get him stepping into the throws and trusting the decision down the field. There were opportunities, obviously. Again, he’s a young quarterback who missed a lot of time in the preseason, but now we just need to keep cleaning these things up.”
The Eagles’ rookie quarterback doesn’t seem to be on the same page as Pederson, though.
“I don’t think it’s the mechanics,” said Wentz. “You make mistakes. Things happen, and that’s just the bottom line.”
Whatever the issue is, everyone can agree that Wentz needs to be better. The Eagles can make that happen by putting him in better positions to succeed. They probably won’t be able to do that down the stretch this season, but it should obviously be their goal moving forward.
Though it hasn’t always been pretty, Wentz has shown franchise quarterback potential this season. It’s up to the organization to build around him and give him the help he needs.
hey Juggler do we miss DeSean Jackson yet? another one of your famous proclamations during your chip love fest.
the same people all over the current coach slobbered over the previous coach and ran the best coach in franchise history out of town. as i said back then it was going to be awfully hard to find someone better. being proven again as Andy rolls to 10+ wins again.
Pederson would be wise to go back to what worked earlier in the year and to what he saw what worked with Donovan 17 years ago.
Against Atlanta in the first half they threw it 15 times and ran 12. The only sustained drive they had (their only touchdown of the half) came early when they ran it 7 times.
The only way this team will have any success (it won't be much) and the way to protect and develop your young qb is to lean on the rushing attack just like Reid did with McNabb very early in his rookie season.
https://www.yahoo.com/amphtml/sports/news/theres-something-wrong-with-carson-wentzs-throwing-style-and-much-of-nfl-has-caught-on-011427565.html
There's something wrong with Carson Wentz's throwing style and NFL teams are catching on
Charles RobinsonDecember 5, 2016
Carson Wentz doesn’t believe he has issues with his throwing mechanics. Some NFL evaluators disagree.
That was the takeaway after the Philadelphia Eagles’ 32-14 loss to the Cincinnati Bengals on Sunday, which featured a three-interception outing from Wentz and one of his worst performances of his rookie season. The quarterback has come back to earth after a stunning 3-0 start to the season. Now several personnel evaluators familiar with the Eagles and Wentz are pointing to a common thread, one that the quarterback and coaching staff may not share agreement.
The Eagles have some work to do on Wentz’s throwing motion.
Carson Wentz had another rough Sunday, this one resulting in a 36-of-60 outing against the Bengals. (AP)
That’s the common theme in the assessments of multiple NFL personnel evaluators who say Wentz is exhibiting some of the mechanical flaws that he illustrated prior to the NFL draft. And evaluators say they are manifesting in accuracy issues and the length of time it takes for Wentz to deliver the ball after making a decision.
#Eagles Wentz doesn't see his mechanics as a problem. #NFL personnel evaluators disagree. Here's 1-yr progression, including 2 INTs Sunday. pic.twitter.com/Ptwg5yKOTn
— Charles Robinson (@CharlesRobinson) December 5, 2016
Wentz didn’t seem to agree with such an assessment on Sunday, when he said his mistakes were garden-variety errors that are prone to happen when throwing the football frequently. Wentz made 60 attempts on Sunday and completed 36 passes.
“I don’t think it’s the mechanics,” Wentz said after Sunday’s loss. “You make mistakes. Things happen.”
But a handful of personnel evaluators who spoke to Yahoo Sports over the past week about Wentz’s mechanics said his throwing motion is showing up prominently on film. They also believe it’s leading to some accuracy issues and mistakes. Two issues in particular are sticking out to those who have viewed the rookie quarterback: a long-armed looping windup that needs to be more compact; and an awkward arm position in the middle of his throwing motion that is slowing down his delivery.
One NFC East source likened Wentz’s arm positioning to something from a baseball pitcher. Another evaluator said the rookie displayed “bountiful bad arm angles” during his throwing motion.
“[The] ball is dropped down, turned out, then looped back around,” one evaluator said. “With his long arms and that motion, [it’s] very hard to be accurate. Especially on the move. … [The] inability to get the ball out quick and on time is key.”
The motion was also something that concerned the Cleveland Browns in their scouting evaluations of Wentz, prior to their trading of the No. 2 overall pick to the Eagles. A Browns source told Yahoo Sports Wentz’s motion was noted in draft evaluations – though he also maintained trading the No. 2 pick was more about netting draft picks than not liking Wentz.
Interestingly, a league source told Yahoo Sports that restyling Wentz’s throwing motion was an important bullet point on the Eagles’ offseason docket, but that the team was able to make only marginal progress before the start of the regular season. According to the source, those efforts were spearheaded by Eagles head coach Doug Pederson and offensive coordinator Frank Reich, both former NFL quarterbacks.
As the process moved along, there was a hope to continue developing Wentz during a “redshirt” rookie season. However, that timeline changed when Wentz was elevated from No. 3 quarterback to starter following the Eagles’ trade of Sam Bradford to the Minnesota Vikings. The source said the Eagles realized at that point that any serious strides to refine Wentz’s motion were likely going to have to wait until next offseason.
In essence, this was supposed to be the season when the Eagles drilled down on his mechanics and worked the kinks out. That was taken off the table, and now evaluators are attributing some of his struggles to that reality.
Some of that has also become a more pressing topic in Philadelphia, as the Eagles have stumbled to 5-7 and last in the NFC East – with Wentz being a part of those struggles. During that 3-0 start, Wentz threw five touchdowns and no interceptions. In the 2-7 stretch that has ensued, Wentz’s touchdown-to-interception ratio has been 7-to-11. While the mistakes and losses have come from a variety of issues, the work needed for Wentz has been showcased in some of his individual miscues.
This could be seen in the loss to the Bengals, when his long, looped throwing motion was particularly evident in at least two of his interceptions. In them, Wentz’s windup was so pronounced that he dropped the ball to (or below) his waist – something that was a notable trait in some of his college film. It’s a flaw considered fixable (or at least improvable) and it’s most commonly addressed by teams in the offseason.
“Augmenting [a throwing motion] is a lot of process, process, process. A lot of repetition. And it can be incremental – maybe even several years,” one evaluator said. “There is some elimination involved that can wreak havoc with a quarterback mentally. So you have to be careful with it – try some things and if the changes start making problems worse, you move on to something else. That’s why it’s an offseason thing because you need the time to be deliberate. … It’s not easy. You can tinker and get really bad [results].”
The Eagles may not be at that point with Wentz, but it appears the offseason bullet point is still there. That 3-0 start is in the rear-view mirror. Now it’s the 2-7 fall speaking most loudly. There is plenty of work left for Wentz and his throwing motion. And Philadelphia can probably see it more clearly than anyone.
Oh...and this:
http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/jets/jets-fire-todd-bowles-lifeless-performance-colts-article-1.2899832
It’s time for Jets to fire Todd Bowles after lifeless performance vs. Colts
Two seasons is not a lot of time, but it's more than enough to come to this conclusion: The Jets need to fire Todd Bowles.
Why give him a third year when 28 games into his head coaching career he has proven he's not the right man to end the Jets nearly half-century Super Bowl drought? No need to make a bad situation even worse. This is a multi-billion dollar business and you can't give away seasons.
Nice man, good defensive coordinator in Arizona, over-his-head head coach in New York.
Time again for another change.
Nobody's safe after Jets are unacceptably bad in 41-10 loss
Is Bowles worried the 3-9 record, which could be on the way to 3-13, will get him fired?
"No," he said.
Todd Bowles may have coached his way out of a job after the Jets' Monday night loss to the Colts. (Robert Sabo/New York Daily News)
He should be worried.
Does he think his job is in jeopardy?
Andrew Luck has a field day against Jets defense
"You know your job is in jeopardy when you take one of these jobs," he said.
Bowles' game management skills put the Jets at a competitive disadvantage nearly every week. I don't see him growing into this job.
He has divorced himself from the offense, the downfall in the six years of Rex Ryan. Bowles has no feel how to handle his quarterbacks - he decided before Monday night's humiliating 41-10 loss to the Colts that Bryce Petty would start the final four games of the season even if Ryan Fitzpatrick beat Indy 45-0.
Should the @nyjets fire Todd Bowles?
— NY Daily News Sports (@NYDNSports) December 6, 2016
Naturally, he didn't have to worry about being second-guessed about switching after a 45-0 victory because these Jets don't seem capable of winning another game. Instead, he accelerated his QB timetable and put in Petty at the half. Of course, Petty threw two picks.
Mid-game adjustments are just not his thing. He looks lost on the sideline. He rarely shows fire, although he did f-bomb his defensive line in the first half Monday night. Finally, a pulse.
"Too many cuss words to mention," he said.
He sounds comatose at this news conferences and weekly spot on the radio. Is that important? It's how he communicates to Jets Nation and his lack of passion inspires no confidence.
Football teams reflect the personality of their head coach. The Jets don't have much of a personality.
Bowles said after the game, "For the first time this year, we got our ass handed to us." Then he said, "I think they kicked our ass. I don't think we showed a lot of effort," followed by, "We got our ass handed to us," and then, "I just know we got our ass kicked."
He's got it all figured out.
Wellington Mara used to say he could handle Giants fans booing, but it was the apathy represented by empty seats that would signal the right time to make a change. The crowd at Met Life Stadium on Monday night was announced as 78,160. It appeared to be an invitation-only audience with only about 40,000-45,000 actually using their tickets.
Huge pockets of empty seats were all over. Upper deck seats were selling for $5 - that's $5 - on the secondary market Monday. Jets owner Woody Johnson entertained vice president- elect Mike Pence, the governor of Indiana, in his suite. It had to be humiliating for Johnson that his team played its worst game of the season against Pence's team and the Jets fans showed their disgust by not even bothering to show up.
Johnson is reportedly under consideration to become the ambassador to Great Britain. The job would certainly require him spending a majority of his time out of the country. It might be in the best interest of his health if he spent football seasons abroad. The farther away he is from this slop, the better off he will be.
The Jets not only stink, as their 3-9 record solidly attests, they give no effort. Muhammad Wilkerson fought for years for a big contract, finally got one, and has mailed in the season. Darrelle Revis has taken early retirement on game day. The Jets desperately tried to dump Sheldon Richardson at the trade deadline. These were supposed to be foundation players. Bowles couldn't get any of them to play.
In the third quarter, two knucklehead shirtless fans ran on the field. The state trooper who took down one fan and the security guard who took down the other showed better tackling form and more desire and passion than the Jets defense, which was carved up by Andrew Luck, just three days out of concussion protocol.
Bowles put together a 10-6 record in his rookie season taking over a 4-12 team from Ryan. He benefitted from a career year by Ryan Fitzpatrick and an easy schedule.
All the Jets had to do to make the playoffs was beat a dysfunctional team coached by Ryan in the final game in Buffalo. The Bills had their bags packed, but Bowles didn't have the Jets ready to play. Fitzpatrick threw away the playoffs with interceptions on the final three possessions of the season.
As a result, the Jets had no momentum to carry into this season when their schedule early-on was brutal.
It's tough for Jets fans to show their faces after a loss like that.
It's tough for Jets fans to show their faces after a loss like that. (Al Bello/Getty Images)
Bowles, like every Jets coach before him for the last 40 years, has been handcuffed by not having a franchise quarterback. He compounded the problem by handing his offense to Chan Gailey, an old-school coach in a high-tech offensive era. Bowles did not put together a great staff.
He hasn't been helped by GM Mike Maccagnan, who was hand-picked for the job by former Washington and Texans GM Charley Casserly. Maccagnan worked for Casserly in both spots. Bowles was also a Casserly choice. Bowles was not Maccagnan's choice.
Johnson decided on Bowles and then picked Maccagnan. He didn't learn from his mistake of forcing John Idzik to inherit Ryan.
Maccagnan gave his approval to Bowles. He really had no choice. He wanted this job and nobody else was hiring Maccagnan as a GM. Maccagnan can't find a QB. He picked Petty in the fourth round in 2015 and Christian Hackenberg in the second round this year. Petty isn't good enough and Hackenberg can't get a uniform on game day.
The Jets last six head coaches have all been from the defensive side. They need an offensive coach in an offensive era. They haven't hired a head coach with prior NFL head coaching experience since Bill Parcells in 1997. Johnson keeps hiring rookies.
Two years is enough for Bowles, and once again, it's time for the Jets to start over.