football championship > rape victim

Hugh Freaking Dillon

even flow - question mark wrote:

So there are people who don't mind helping out there. But I find there are less and less everyday.

that's awesome that someone helped you like that. I think there are fewer instances like this, and I don't know that it's because there are fewer nice people, or that people are fearful in some way that they will be held accountable for doing the "wrong thing", even if their intentions are great. What if this cab driver raped them after you put them in the cab? What if the person died of puking on their own vomit and they wouldn't have if they hadn't been helped up? it's crazy that we have to think of these things now, but we do. all of a sudden, in today's world, you could be sued or worse for trying to help. or if the person woke up in a rage and knifed you. that sort of thing.

people look the other way because they are afraid to help and/or get involved, for a variety of reasons.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

At the risk of sounding repetitive... and jumping in late to an interesting exchange of dialogue... I'm going to offer the following:

The problem with this case and for most others that don't make the headlines is the simple fact that young men are prone to violent behaviours. Not only towards females... but to other men as well. The brain develops from 'inside out': meaning that the frontal lobe is the last part of the brain to fully mature. This part of the brain is the 'responsible' part of the brain. When alcohol and/or drugs are ingested, young men are prone to acting out and seeking opportunities to pleasure the most reptillian portion of the brain (in particular... fighting and mating). In many cases, overridden with primal urges... they aren't capable of understanding the seriousness of their actions.

I'm not so sure the frontal lobe ever develops in men. When young men grow into old men... it doesn't seem like we get a whole let better.

Polaris's points are hard to take, but there's an element of truth in them that people seem to want to dismiss or ignore. In a perfect world, we would not have to take precautionary measures to avoid getting raped or robbed... but we are far from perfect and we never will be- let's get serious. We give ourselves way too much credit. Humanity has no limits to the depth of our cruelty and disregard. For every eloquent philosophic speaker on the Moving Train... there are countless individuals that care very little for others or their environment. We are not a kind species.

I will be educating my beautiful daughter to deal with the reality she will face as she matures into a woman. Admittedly, this is sad... but to not do so would be tantamount to sticking my head up my ass, crossing my fingers, and just hoping that with a naive state of mind... she never comes across a bad person with dubious intent.

Of course... no amount of education can protect you entirely. I mean, geez man... half the damn time it's a husband or an uncle that a woman needed to be safeguarded from.

Jeanwah

polaris_x wrote:

redrock wrote:

How so?

And which 'friends'? The ones who raped her? The ones who filmed? Or maybe the ones who stood by and joked or did nothing?

Did the victim 'ignore' them because she was passed out?

no ... two "former" friends who testified ... said that they pleaded for her to stop drinking and asked her to follow them and not go with those boys ... but she ignored them ...

The boys were classmates though, and prestigious, well-to-do athletes at that. While it's easy now to say you can't trust anyone, when you're a teen and out with peers partying, no one's likely to be fearful of the company you're in. There's a certain level of trust there. The guys took advantage of that. I'm on the fence between "living in fear" and wanting to trust my fellow human. I know I want to be able to trust and believe in the good in people. Most people do. One would never think that the smart sports hero teenager is capable of being a rapist, and why would they do such a thing anyway and jeopardize their future. But these guys did. When you're partying with "friends", there's a level of trust there.

PJ_Soul

CNN's coverage of guilty verdict - they seem to feel absolutely terrible for these poor, poor rapists (as pointed out by Upworthy, and I agree).

http://www.upworthy.com/cnn-pays-touchi ... irl?c=upw1

Strange coverage - just shows where the mindset still is in NA.

Jeanwah

PJ_Soul wrote:

CNN's coverage of guilty verdict - they seem to feel absolutely terrible for these poor, poor rapists (as pointed out by Upworthy, and I agree).

http://www.upworthy.com/cnn-pays-touchi ... irl?c=upw1

Strange coverage - just shows where the mindset still is in NA.

From pg. 5 (thanks for this Redrock). http://thinkprogress.org/health/2013/03 ... ?mobile=nc

Who Princess

polaris_x wrote:

ok ... one thing i will agree on is we are indeed going in circles ... so, i'll just say this last thing ...

I also said that there are indeed consequences of stupid behavior. I tend to think the victim has learned that and then some.

I'm really frustrated though by the news accounts that continue to state that she was intoxicated (and not how that fact would have prevented her from consenting, making the crime just as despicable as if she'd screamed "No! No!") and overlook the fact that both assailants were intoxicated as well (which doesn't excuse their actions and make them less deserving of punishment).

I certainly agree that girls and women must take all available precautions to avoid assault. I'm a former rape crisis counselor and am well acquainted with the reality of rape. I just don't see much point in dwelling on the victim's bad choices that led to her assault. From what I've seen, when we talk about those things in terms of bad choices/consequences, it serves to increase denial with the women who say "it would never happen to me" (because I'm a good girl, I don't drink to excess, I only go out with nice guys, I keep my doors locked, etc. etc. etc.).

I would prefer to give women the information in a way that empowers rather than frightens them.

Jason P

Steubenville Convicted Rapist Will Appeal Because His 'Brain Isn't Fully Developed'

Read more: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national ... z2O1MQxRbF

Hmm ... interesting.

It will be interesting to see opinions on this defense. I know some have approved of this defense with juveniles getting tried as adults in murder cases.

(i think it is complete b.s. in both cases, btw)

PJ_Soul

Jason P wrote:

Steubenville Convicted Rapist Will Appeal Because His 'Brain Isn't Fully Developed'

Read more: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national ... z2O1MQxRbF

Hmm ... interesting.

It will be interesting to see opinions on this defense. I know some have approved of this defense with juveniles getting tried as adults in murder cases.

(i think it is complete b.s. in both cases, btw)

This exact same case was argued on Law & Order: SVU! .... I don't recall how it ended. :think:

Jason P

PJ_Soul wrote:

This exact same case was argued on Law & Order: SVU! .... I don't recall how it ended. :think:

Can you imagine trying to pitch an episode to the producers of Law & Order that was based exactly on the O.J. Simpson trial with the exact same outcome??? They would laugh you out of the building .....

:fp:

norm

Jason P wrote:

Steubenville Convicted Rapist Will Appeal Because His 'Brain Isn't Fully Developed'

Read more: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national ... z2O1MQxRbF

Hmm ... interesting.

It will be interesting to see opinions on this defense. I know some have approved of this defense with juveniles getting tried as adults in murder cases.

(i think it is complete b.s. in both cases, btw)

sigh...i was a 16 year old once and i never raped anyone...and unless i'm missing some stats, the majority of 16 year olds don't rape

try again counselor

gimmesometruth27

Jason P wrote:

Steubenville Convicted Rapist Will Appeal Because His 'Brain Isn't Fully Developed'

Read more: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national ... z2O1MQxRbF

Hmm ... interesting.

It will be interesting to see opinions on this defense. I know some have approved of this defense with juveniles getting tried as adults in murder cases.

(i think it is complete b.s. in both cases, btw)

the undeveloped brain defense....i have heard it before...

quite an accomplishment to be a great football player and be able to read complex offensive and defensive schemes and make snap strategic decisions knowing full well the potential good and bad consequences of the decisions they make.. doesn't hold water to me for them to know that and then not know that sticking your fingers where they don't belong might possibly be frowned upon...

this appeal is not going to get any traction.

Jeanwah

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Steubenville Convicted Rapist Will Appeal Because His 'Brain Isn't Fully Developed'

Read more: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national ... z2O1MQxRbF

Hmm ... interesting.

It will be interesting to see opinions on this defense. I know some have approved of this defense with juveniles getting tried as adults in murder cases.

(i think it is complete b.s. in both cases, btw)

the undeveloped brain defense....i have heard it before...

quite an accomplishment to be a great football player and be able to read complex offensive and defensive schemes and make snap strategic decisions knowing full well the potential good and bad consequences of the decisions they make.. doesn't hold water to me for them to know that and then not know that sticking your fingers where they don't belong might possibly be frowned upon...

this appeal is not going to get any traction.

From the media, I'm sure it will, and they'll be sympathizing with them the whole way.

PJ_Soul

Jeanwah wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Steubenville Convicted Rapist Will Appeal Because His 'Brain Isn't Fully Developed'

Read more: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national ... z2O1MQxRbF

Hmm ... interesting.

It will be interesting to see opinions on this defense. I know some have approved of this defense with juveniles getting tried as adults in murder cases.

(i think it is complete b.s. in both cases, btw)

the undeveloped brain defense....i have heard it before...

quite an accomplishment to be a great football player and be able to read complex offensive and defensive schemes and make snap strategic decisions knowing full well the potential good and bad consequences of the decisions they make.. doesn't hold water to me for them to know that and then not know that sticking your fingers where they don't belong might possibly be frowned upon...

this appeal is not going to get any traction.

From the media, I'm sure it will, and they'll be sympathizing with them the whole way.

The media doesn't make the decision.

Jeanwah

PJ_Soul wrote:

Jeanwah wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

the undeveloped brain defense....i have heard it before...

quite an accomplishment to be a great football player and be able to read complex offensive and defensive schemes and make snap strategic decisions knowing full well the potential good and bad consequences of the decisions they make.. doesn't hold water to me for them to know that and then not know that sticking your fingers where they don't belong might possibly be frowned upon...

this appeal is not going to get any traction.

From the media, I'm sure it will, and they'll be sympathizing with them the whole way.

The media doesn't make the decision.

I know that, but whatever traction it does get, you know where the media will be.

Thirty Bills Unpaid

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Steubenville Convicted Rapist Will Appeal Because His 'Brain Isn't Fully Developed'

Read more: http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national ... z2O1MQxRbF

Hmm ... interesting.

It will be interesting to see opinions on this defense. I know some have approved of this defense with juveniles getting tried as adults in murder cases.

(i think it is complete b.s. in both cases, btw)

the undeveloped brain defense....i have heard it before...

quite an accomplishment to be a great football player and be able to read complex offensive and defensive schemes and make snap strategic decisions knowing full well the potential good and bad consequences of the decisions they make.. doesn't hold water to me for them to know that and then not know that sticking your fingers where they don't belong might possibly be frowned upon...

this appeal is not going to get any traction.

As per my previous post... please trust me that I had no idea they were actually going to make a legal defence under such a premise. I stand by what I wrote... it's legitimate... but I also stand by my assertion that these guys need to face the consequences for their action.

By the way... a portion of my post was attributed to talking of the effects of alcohol on the underdeveloped brain. Football players rarely attend practices and compete in games when they are shitfaced. If they did... we'd see the results of that very easily. Consuming lcohol and being drunk is not an excuse either.

Who Princess

I could stand to see some guidelines for when juveniles would be charged as adults. As I understand it, there currently are no standards in any state and the decision is usually made by the local district attorney, often because of the public outcry about the crime. I think there are times when it's appropriate to charge an adolescent as an adult and times when it may not be, but currently it can be used for political grandstanding by an elected official.

Don't ask me what the guidelines should be. I just think they should be based on logical criteria and not emotion. In a case like this one, I have a lot of trouble separating my emotions from the crime which is why I think there ought to be some kind of standards.

But like norm, I think most 16 year olds know better than to do things like this no matter how undeveloped their brains.

josevolution

The fucked up part of it is this town is all behind the rapists not the victim but the creeps who raped this young girl and you know why , the precious game of football god forbid they loose their star players because we all know it's hard to find that special athelete but a common girl they are dime a dz .....Damn i'm pissed have we found life in another planet yet :oops:

norm

Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:

By the way... a portion of my post was attributed to talking of the effects of alcohol on the underdeveloped brain. Football players rarely attend practices and compete in games when they are shitfaced. If they did... we'd see the results of that very easily. Consuming lcohol and being drunk is not an excuse either.

it's true...after that night at the strip club, the coyotes played like shit the next day...coach kilmer was pissed

Thirty Bills Unpaid

Who Princess wrote:

But like norm, I think most 16 year olds know better than to do things like this no matter how undeveloped their brains.

Absolutely.

PJ_Soul

The drunk argument has worked too ... a drunk AND underdeveloped brain? Kid might get probation. :fp: