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Believing what we want to believe

PJFAN13PJFAN13 Posts: 1,422
edited December 2012 in A Moving Train
Believing what we want to believe

Human beings, thanks to culture and genetics, are inclined to be pessimistic, fearful, skeptical and believers in conspiracy theories. We also don't like change.

The marketer (products, government, religion, whatever) that decides to trade in any of these glitches has a tremendous advantage. It's far easier to create fear than to soothe it, far easier to argue for a conspiracy than to prove that one doesn't exist.

When we find ourselves rewarding our instincts instead of reality, we often make poor choices. Of course, sometimes there's a good reason to be afraid or to imagine that a secret conspiracy is at work. Not often, though.

When confronted by a mass of facts and nothing but instinct or tribal confirmation on the other side, it might be worth revisiting why we choose to believe what we believe.

-Seth Godin
(this was so good and appropriate I had to share :D )
11.30.93~10.2.96~9.13.98~9.1.00~8.25.00~7.3.03~7.5.03
7.9.03~9.28.04~10.1.05~5.12.06~5.13.06~5.27.06~5.28.06
8.5.08(EV)~10.9.09~5.21.10~6.20.11(EV)~7.5.11(EV)~7.9.11(EV)
11.21.13~8.27.16(EV)~11.14.16(TOTD)~4.13.20~9.27.20~9.26.21~10.2.21
2.15.22 (EV)~2.25.22 (EV)~2.27.22 (EV)~5.3.22~5.7.22~9.17.24~9.29.24
Post edited by Unknown User on

Comments

  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Funny, I was thinking about this today in the death penalty thread.

    You can't change some people's minds about anything, even when you confront them with the facts.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    PJFAN13 wrote:
    Believing what we want to believe

    Human beings, thanks to culture and genetics, are inclined to be pessimistic, fearful, skeptical and believers in conspiracy theories. We also don't like change.

    The marketer (products, government, religion, whatever) that decides to trade in any of these glitches has a tremendous advantage. It's far easier to create fear than to soothe it, far easier to argue for a conspiracy than to prove that one doesn't exist.

    When we find ourselves rewarding our instincts instead of reality, we often make poor choices. Of course, sometimes there's a good reason to be afraid or to imagine that a secret conspiracy is at work. Not often, though.

    When confronted by a mass of facts and nothing but instinct or tribal confirmation on the other side, it might be worth revisiting why we choose to believe what we believe.

    -Seth Godin
    (this was so good and appropriate I had to share :D )

    most often thou when facts contradict the agenda a reasonable theory gets marginalized by being labeled a conspiracy
  • dimitrispearljamdimitrispearljam Posts: 139,720
    like what I read..thanks for sharing..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Funny, I was thinking about this today in the death penalty thread.

    You can't change some people's minds about anything, even when you confront them with the facts.

    The facts you speak of, Byrnzie, are not necessarily facts. For example... one of the quotations you referenced stated: "The same is true when the U.S. is compared to countries similar to it. The U.S., with the death penalty, has a higher murder rate than the countries of Europe or Canada, which do not use the death penalty." The quotation was in the context provided by a Northeastern professor who was suggesting that the death penalty made countries more violent. This is an oversimplification and an opinion- far from fact as you seem to present. There are other, more significant variables that make the US more violent than the countries he compared it to.

    The death penalty revolves around values. One could refer to the reoffending rates for supporting their position on the death penalty- we just had a high profile 'reoffending situation' involving firefighters. One could suggest that the death penalty acts as a deterrent. One could use any 'reasoning' -whether sound or not. I tend to think the death penalty is a measure we are able to afford survivors. It's easy to sit safe and secure- personally removed from a heinous crime that maybe saw your child raped and dismembered- but it would be a much tougher for those directy impacted: sharing the air with the man that committed the crime. Death for sick bastards committing extreme crimes is not a stretch and if it offers survivors a small level of closure then fair enough: the crime was thrust upon them.

    If you feel that the life of Clifford Olson has value and that we are above executing him for murdering mulitiple children... then fair enough; but this doesn't make your position right. Others have value sets that would rather see such a heinous monster clinically removed from the earth.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    The previous post was not an attempt to hijack the thread. I think it speaks to the subject title: one person thinks this way... another thinks differently.

    If one consistently fails to see why someone might feel the way they do... then I would be so bold as to suggest they are not as global minded as they might think they are.
    "My brain's a good brain!"
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    The previous post was not an attempt to hijack the thread. I think it speaks to the subject title: one person thinks this way... another thinks differently.

    If one consistently fails to see why someone might feel the way they do... then I would be so bold as to suggest they are not as global minded as they might think they are.

    there was another thread about belief, think and feel....go hi-jack that one (jk)
  • ByrnzieByrnzie Posts: 21,037
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    The facts you speak of, Byrnzie, are not necessarily facts. For example... one of the quotations you referenced stated: "The same is true when the U.S. is compared to countries similar to it. The U.S., with the death penalty, has a higher murder rate than the countries of Europe or Canada, which do not use the death penalty." The quotation was in the context provided by a Northeastern professor who was suggesting that the death penalty made countries more violent. This is an oversimplification and an opinion- far from fact as you seem to present. There are other, more significant variables that make the US more violent than the countries he compared it to.

    I didn't speak of any specific facts.

    Though I was referring to the fact that it costs more to execute people than to keep them alive. A fact that I proved, again and again with source material, and which was denied, again and again, without the person denying it providing any evidence to support his argument.

    Anyway, the quote that you cherry-picked and edited above didn't merely refer to the differences in crime rates between countries, but also pointed out that States without the death penalty have less violent crime than States with the death penalty. Though maybe that didn't help your argument, which is why you chose not to mention it?:

    "States in the United States that do not employ the death penalty generally have lower murder rates than states that do. The same is true when the U.S. is compared to countries similar to it. The U.S., with the death penalty, has a higher murder rate than the countries of Europe or Canada, which do not use the death penalty."
  • blackredyellowblackredyellow Posts: 5,889
    PJFAN13 wrote:
    Believing what we want to believe

    Human beings, thanks to culture and genetics, are inclined to be pessimistic, fearful, skeptical and believers in conspiracy theories. We also don't like change.

    The marketer (products, government, religion, whatever) that decides to trade in any of these glitches has a tremendous advantage. It's far easier to create fear than to soothe it, far easier to argue for a conspiracy than to prove that one doesn't exist.

    When we find ourselves rewarding our instincts instead of reality, we often make poor choices. Of course, sometimes there's a good reason to be afraid or to imagine that a secret conspiracy is at work. Not often, though.

    When confronted by a mass of facts and nothing but instinct or tribal confirmation on the other side, it might be worth revisiting why we choose to believe what we believe.

    -Seth Godin
    (this was so good and appropriate I had to share :D )

    This is very true...

    or at least I think it is because I want to believe it :D :P :?
    My whole life
    was like a picture
    of a sunny day
    “We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, or rejoice because thorn bushes have roses.”
    ― Abraham Lincoln
  • Thirty Bills UnpaidThirty Bills Unpaid Posts: 16,881
    Byrnzie wrote:
    Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:
    The facts you speak of, Byrnzie, are not necessarily facts. For example... one of the quotations you referenced stated: "The same is true when the U.S. is compared to countries similar to it. The U.S., with the death penalty, has a higher murder rate than the countries of Europe or Canada, which do not use the death penalty." The quotation was in the context provided by a Northeastern professor who was suggesting that the death penalty made countries more violent. This is an oversimplification and an opinion- far from fact as you seem to present. There are other, more significant variables that make the US more violent than the countries he compared it to.

    I didn't speak of any specific facts.

    Though I was referring to the fact that it costs more to execute people than to keep them alive. A fact that I proved, again and again with source material, and which was denied, again and again, without the person denying it providing any evidence to support his argument.

    Anyway, the quote that you cherry-picked and edited above didn't merely refer to the differences in crime rates between countries, but also pointed out that States without the death penalty have less violent crime than States with the death penalty. Though maybe that didn't help your argument, which is why you chose not to mention it?:

    "States in the United States that do not employ the death penalty generally have lower murder rates than states that do. The same is true when the U.S. is compared to countries similar to it. The U.S., with the death penalty, has a higher murder rate than the countries of Europe or Canada, which do not use the death penalty."

    The entire quote that you have provided actually adds to what I am saying. The professor from Northeastern (my alma matter... great school!) attempts to imply that the death penalty might be the causal factor for increased murder rates. While the suggested relationship is true for several states... there are exceptions. Furthermore, there are many more variables that contribute to crime rates and murder rates that carry much more significance than the penalty one might receive after the fact. I truly don't think the death penalty acts as a deterrent any more than it promotes more violence.

    As for the first part of your response... it has been shown to cost more to execute someone than institue them- your point stands; however... the costs associated with capital punishment really have no place in this argument. Cost efficiency is not a point that should be debated when deciding on a course of action that might mean taking someone's life. This debate should be centered on morality: is it right or is it wrong?

    I am assuming you will respond. Please copy this text or any part of it and place it in the 'other' thread if it's not too much of a hassle! I'd like to leave the integrity of this thread for the OP (I am responsible for the deviation here!).
    "My brain's a good brain!"
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