Hope

EdsonNascimentoEdsonNascimento Posts: 5,521
edited December 2012 in A Moving Train
I have to say I'm somewhat optimistic Obama will address the Newtown tragedy appropriately. It was heartening that after having a bit of time (but not too much) to gather his thoughts about the issues involved, he addressed what amounts to the proverbial "3 legged stool" that will be necessary:

1. Mental Illness
2. Culture
3. Guns

While 3 should be the easiest and most direct to address (so, might happen the quickest), it is nice to see he is not following the simple play card and addressing all the primary issues involved here.

My optimism also stems from the fact that this is the kind of thing his experience is most likely to help. That is, as a community organizer, these are the types of things (among others), that he would have to consider in his daily work even if they were only tangential to the specific issue he was dealing with. Also, these things are very much community based objectives that hopefully he can lend his expertise to to help us solve (well, come as close to a solution, as there probably is not real world solution that will wipe everything "clean.")

I'm hopeful in how this will play out and think he is the right person to lead on these issues.
Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    By far, #2 will prove to be the hardest.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JimmyV wrote:
    By far, #2 will prove to be the hardest.
    the #2 isnt something you can buy ...or do wars for get it...
    its impossible to happens..will need like 100 years
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • I have to say I'm somewhat optimistic Obama will address the Newtown tragedy appropriately. It was heartening that after having a bit of time (but not too much) to gather his thoughts about the issues involved, he addressed what amounts to the proverbial "3 legged stool" that will be necessary:

    1. Mental Illness
    2. Culture
    3. Guns

    While 3 should be the easiest and most direct to address (so, might happen the quickest), it is nice to see he is not following the simple play card and addressing all the primary issues involved here.

    My optimism also stems from the fact that this is the kind of thing his experience is most likely to help. That is, as a community organizer, these are the types of things (among others), that he would have to consider in his daily work even if they were only tangential to the specific issue he was dealing with. Also, these things are very much community based objectives that hopefully he can lend his expertise to to help us solve (well, come as close to a solution, as there probably is not real world solution that will wipe everything "clean.")

    I'm hopeful in how this will play out and think he is the right person to lead on these issues.
    i was thinking...he dont have anything to loose...its his second 4 years..so he will not be elected again
    its his chance to do something will stay in history..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    I have to say I'm somewhat optimistic Obama will address the Newtown tragedy appropriately. It was heartening that after having a bit of time (but not too much) to gather his thoughts about the issues involved, he addressed what amounts to the proverbial "3 legged stool" that will be necessary:

    1. Mental Illness
    2. Culture
    3. Guns

    While 3 should be the easiest and most direct to address (so, might happen the quickest), it is nice to see he is not following the simple play card and addressing all the primary issues involved here.

    My optimism also stems from the fact that this is the kind of thing his experience is most likely to help. That is, as a community organizer, these are the types of things (among others), that he would have to consider in his daily work even if they were only tangential to the specific issue he was dealing with. Also, these things are very much community based objectives that hopefully he can lend his expertise to to help us solve (well, come as close to a solution, as there probably is not real world solution that will wipe everything "clean.")

    I'm hopeful in how this will play out and think he is the right person to lead on these issues.
    i was thinking...he dont have anything to loose...its his second 4 years..so he will not be elected again
    its his chance to do something will stay in history..

    This is the hope for every President's second term. Unfortunately it usually proves to be more complicated and difficult than we think.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • JimmyV wrote:
    I have to say I'm somewhat optimistic Obama will address the Newtown tragedy appropriately. It was heartening that after having a bit of time (but not too much) to gather his thoughts about the issues involved, he addressed what amounts to the proverbial "3 legged stool" that will be necessary:

    1. Mental Illness
    2. Culture
    3. Guns

    While 3 should be the easiest and most direct to address (so, might happen the quickest), it is nice to see he is not following the simple play card and addressing all the primary issues involved here.

    My optimism also stems from the fact that this is the kind of thing his experience is most likely to help. That is, as a community organizer, these are the types of things (among others), that he would have to consider in his daily work even if they were only tangential to the specific issue he was dealing with. Also, these things are very much community based objectives that hopefully he can lend his expertise to to help us solve (well, come as close to a solution, as there probably is not real world solution that will wipe everything "clean.")

    I'm hopeful in how this will play out and think he is the right person to lead on these issues.
    i was thinking...he dont have anything to loose...its his second 4 years..so he will not be elected again
    its his chance to do something will stay in history..

    This is the hope for every President's second term. Unfortunately it usually proves to be more complicated and difficult than we think.
    i think he cant do it alone..need congress ,right?
    well..lets see some balls there..who cares about people,and put peoples safety first of all the rest..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    i think he cant do it alone..need congress ,right?
    well..lets see some balls there..who cares about people,and put peoples safety first of all the rest..

    Needs Congress, but also needs a sizable chunk of the American people behind him. Not necessarily a majority but pretty close. Unfortunately, we as a society often have short memories.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • rollingsrollings unknown Posts: 7,124
    JimmyV wrote:
    By far, #2 will prove to be the hardest.

    Right. And this may necessarily involve just the time for a generation or two to pass.


    There are other cultures where mental illness does not have the stigmatism that it does in ours.

    and there are countries that successfully prohibit gun ownership (Japan).

    So there is hope
  • pandorapandora Posts: 21,855
    I wish mental illness would be # 1 priority, that would give me hope.
  • JC29856JC29856 Posts: 9,617
    JimmyV wrote:
    i think he cant do it alone..need congress ,right?
    well..lets see some balls there..who cares about people,and put peoples safety first of all the rest..

    Needs Congress, but also needs a sizable chunk of the American people behind him. Not necessarily a majority but pretty close. Unfortunately, we as a society often have short memories.


    given what was done (or not done) when obama "had" congress during (a part) his first term.... doesnt leave me with much hope (there's that word again)
  • i think he cant do it alone..need congress ,right?
    well..lets see some balls there..who cares about people,and put peoples safety first of all the rest..

    Has nothing to do with Congress. But, to provide a history lesson, 2nd terms tend to be less "successful" than initial terms. Even Reagan faced that (though to a lesser degree than most).

    The whole rhetoric that someone's been working 4 years to prevent his election, etc. and now he's "free" to do as he wants is hogwash. Doesn't really work that way. That's all propaganda. Very rare a President has Congress in his party (Even Reagan).

    I didn't want to derail this thread, because I hope it to be a postivie one. But, those are the historical facts. Perhaps, he'll buck the trend. But, he'd be extremely unique in that. And it has NOTHING to do with Congress.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • pandora wrote:
    I wish mental illness would be # 1 priority, that would give me hope.

    Even if he gets the gun laws changed before this does not necessarily mean this is not the #1 priority. That is a lot more difficult task. The gun laws are purely political (I mean c'mon who REALLY thinks owning magazines of bullets makes sense?). Mental Illness will face that as well, but there's many more obstacles and issues to consider that might make this take a bit longer to address more completely even if it's the #1 priority.

    Now changing the culture....
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • JimmyV wrote:
    i think he cant do it alone..need congress ,right?
    well..lets see some balls there..who cares about people,and put peoples safety first of all the rest..

    Needs Congress, but also needs a sizable chunk of the American people behind him. Not necessarily a majority but pretty close. Unfortunately, we as a society often have short memories.

    Fact. And also why your noting culture change being the hardest is spot on.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWest Posts: 19,183
    i think he cant do it alone..need congress ,right?
    well..lets see some balls there..who cares about people,and put peoples safety first of all the rest..

    Has nothing to do with Congress. But, to provide a history lesson, 2nd terms tend to be less "successful" than initial terms. Even Reagan faced that (though to a lesser degree than most).

    The whole rhetoric that someone's been working 4 years to prevent his election, etc. and now he's "free" to do as he wants is hogwash. Doesn't really work that way. That's all propaganda. Very rare a President has Congress in his party (Even Reagan).

    I didn't want to derail this thread, because I hope it to be a postivie one. But, those are the historical facts. Perhaps, he'll buck the trend. But, he'd be extremely unique in that. And it has NOTHING to do with Congress.

    He will need Congress to pass any laws, right? I think Congress will be deeply involved in any potential change. It can start with the President but he can't do it alone.
    ___________________________________________

    "...I changed by not changing at all..."
  • i was thinking...he dont have anything to loose...its his second 4 years..so he will not be elected again
    its his chance to do something will stay in history..

    And just to finish the thought above - the reason this logic doesn't work is because the flip of this is - nobody needs to work with him either b/c they KNOW they won't have to deal with him (or any 2nd term President) in 4 years. So, the whole 2nd term thing is really not a logical conclusion. There's a flip side to the coin. And it results in you being back where you started - there's no leverage gained or lost by any of this. If you know how to lead, you'll lead.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • JimmyV wrote:
    i think he cant do it alone..need congress ,right?
    well..lets see some balls there..who cares about people,and put peoples safety first of all the rest..

    Has nothing to do with Congress. But, to provide a history lesson, 2nd terms tend to be less "successful" than initial terms. Even Reagan faced that (though to a lesser degree than most).

    The whole rhetoric that someone's been working 4 years to prevent his election, etc. and now he's "free" to do as he wants is hogwash. Doesn't really work that way. That's all propaganda. Very rare a President has Congress in his party (Even Reagan).

    I didn't want to derail this thread, because I hope it to be a postivie one. But, those are the historical facts. Perhaps, he'll buck the trend. But, he'd be extremely unique in that. And it has NOTHING to do with Congress.

    He will need Congress to pass any laws, right? I think Congress will be deeply involved in any potential change. It can start with the President but he can't do it alone.

    True. But, that's true of any President. The situation he's in is not unique to him. That's why I'm saying HIS success or failure, while reliant on Congress (obviously), has NOTHING to do with Congress and everything to do with how he manages them (if that makes sense).

    I guess to make the point clearer - yes, the outcome includes Congress, but no, it is not unique to his situation.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,088
    rollings wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    By far, #2 will prove to be the hardest.

    Right. And this may necessarily involve just the time for a generation or two to pass.


    There are other cultures where mental illness does not have the stigmatism that it does in ours.

    and there are countries that successfully prohibit gun ownership (Japan).

    So there is hope

    Your vision of hope makes good sense to me, Rollings.

    Good thread, Edson!
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
    Democracy Dies in Darkness- Washington Post













  • brianlux wrote:
    rollings wrote:
    JimmyV wrote:
    By far, #2 will prove to be the hardest.

    Right. And this may necessarily involve just the time for a generation or two to pass.


    There are other cultures where mental illness does not have the stigmatism that it does in ours.

    and there are countries that successfully prohibit gun ownership (Japan).

    So there is hope

    Your vision of hope makes good sense to me, Rollings.

    Good thread, Edson!

    Thanks, and to hopefully keep this on track, I want to reiterate - I think Obama is WELL equipped to lead on these issues. And in that I include the very definition of leadership which is getting folks to follow.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.

  • Thanks, and to hopefully keep this on track, I want to reiterate - I think Obama is WELL equipped to lead on these issues. And in that I include the very definition of leadership which is getting folks to follow.
    so,how this can work buddy?
    how can pressure things?so moves things?
    citizens??local society?mayor?some lobbies?
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    edited December 2012
    2. Culture

    If culture changes (for the best), everything can change. As said, unfortunately the longest and hardest thing to change.

    Mental health - a wider issue that involves culture change.

    Stricter controls - 'easy' (ish) and quick (ish). Of course not a fix for all the woes of the country but part of the problem alleviated already clearing a path - less rocks to stumble on.

    Right now, people are still in shock. All kinds of emotions - anger, sadness, realisation. This leads to them willing/wanting to change things. My hope is that this 'gut reaction' becomes more than that and that this one too many tragic event sets off a chain of events...
    Post edited by redrock on
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,088

    Thanks, and to hopefully keep this on track, I want to reiterate - I think Obama is WELL equipped to lead on these issues. And in that I include the very definition of leadership which is getting folks to follow.

    Good point! It would help of those in office would act more like leaders and less like politicians. I think that could happen in this case.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
    Democracy Dies in Darkness- Washington Post













  • polaris_xpolaris_x Posts: 13,559
    the biggest obstacle is getting americans to acknowledge their culture ... a culture that is rooted in violence and really doesn't have a social infrastructure to support people ...

  • Thanks, and to hopefully keep this on track, I want to reiterate - I think Obama is WELL equipped to lead on these issues. And in that I include the very definition of leadership which is getting folks to follow.
    so,how this can work buddy?
    how can pressure things?so moves things?
    citizens??local society?mayor?some lobbies?

    All of those things. But, ultimately it takes a good leader with good ideas (even if those ideas are others' to begin with). Obviously, one can't do things all on their own. It's no different than being the CEO of a company or a manager of a department (only bigger, more complicated and more important). Having the idea is good. Having the idea that can be implemented is better. And leading folks to implement them is best.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • brianlux wrote:

    Thanks, and to hopefully keep this on track, I want to reiterate - I think Obama is WELL equipped to lead on these issues. And in that I include the very definition of leadership which is getting folks to follow.

    Good point! It would help of those in office would act more like leaders and less like politicians. I think that could happen in this case.

    Agreed. And that is also why I have hope Obama can lead here. It is clearly in his wheel house.
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • polaris_x wrote:
    the biggest obstacle is getting americans to acknowledge their culture ... a culture that is rooted in violence and really doesn't have a social infrastructure to support people ...

    Running out right now (not to work, but to lunch, don't worry), but his isn't 100% accurate. There is some truth to this, but any blanket statement like this is bound to be wrong. I will try to get back to this this afternoon - hold that thought, but part of it is that folks don't take advantage of what is out there, and don't always act even in their OWN best interest let alone others' (example in this case - as legal as it was, why would that mother knowing what she knows about her son's tendencies have a gun let alone an apparent small cache anywhere near him - there's no legislation/culture change, etc that will change pure stupidity).
    Sorry. The world doesn't work the way you tell it to.
  • btw..this is really a very good thread
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • redrock wrote:

    Right now, people are still in shock. All kinds of emotions - anger, sadness, realisation. This leads to them willing/wanting to change things. My hope is that this 'gut reaction' becomes more than that and that this one too many tragic event sets off a chain of events...
    this is describe perfect the situation..
    and here is when Leaders need to lead as Edson said..
    "...Dimitri...He talks to me...'.."The Ghost of Greece..".
    "..That's One Happy Fuckin Ghost.."
    “..That came up on the Pillow Case...This is for the Greek, With Our Apologies.....”
  • redrockredrock Posts: 18,341
    edited December 2012
    redrock wrote:

    Right now, people are still in shock. All kinds of emotions - anger, sadness, realisation. This leads to them willing/wanting to change things. My hope is that this 'gut reaction' becomes more than that and that this one too many tragic event sets off a chain of events...
    this is describe perfect the situation..
    and here is when Leaders need to lead as Edson said..
    Beat the iron whileit's hot, as they say..
    Post edited by redrock on
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,088
    I'm off and running too but just a quick word about a word- this thread title put me back on board. Hope!

    Have a great day everyone! :mrgreen:
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
    Democracy Dies in Darkness- Washington Post













  • CosmoCosmo Posts: 12,225
    Great opening message, sir.
    I agree with those who are saying the Culture is going to be the most difficult to change.
    For example, in the immediate wake of this horrifying event... Americans ran out and bought the same weapon that with the weapon of choice by this unstable individual. They went out a bought tons of ammo, too. What does that say about us? I would imagine that the owner of an AR-15 might look inwards and wonder, was this a good choice... owning this gun. Even if for only a split second... at least, addressing the real need for such a weapon. I am not expecting people to throw down their guns... but, at the bare minimum, give it a thought.
    This culture of fear.. and that being armed to the teeth will somehow protect us from... well.... WHAT? What are we protecting ourselves from? The Government? Each other? What?
    As long as we choose to live in fear... we will never change. That is the tough one.. changing us, not our laws.
    Allen Fieldhouse, home of the 2008 NCAA men's Basketball Champions! Go Jayhawks!
    Hail, Hail!!!
  • Just my two cents.....Isn't it fear that is causing everyone to jump on bandwagon and cry out for a ban on a rifle type that causes only approximately 1% of the gun related deaths in this country? I mean handguns are the weapon of choice and most gun related deaths from handgun are from only one or two shots. Even a ban on semiautomatics will do little to stop the deaths according to statistics. It is fear that causes people to give up rights for a feeling of security. I don't know.
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