Hope

EdsonNascimento

I have to say I'm somewhat optimistic Obama will address the Newtown tragedy appropriately. It was heartening that after having a bit of time (but not too much) to gather his thoughts about the issues involved, he addressed what amounts to the proverbial "3 legged stool" that will be necessary:

1. Mental Illness
2. Culture
3. Guns

While 3 should be the easiest and most direct to address (so, might happen the quickest), it is nice to see he is not following the simple play card and addressing all the primary issues involved here.

My optimism also stems from the fact that this is the kind of thing his experience is most likely to help. That is, as a community organizer, these are the types of things (among others), that he would have to consider in his daily work even if they were only tangential to the specific issue he was dealing with. Also, these things are very much community based objectives that hopefully he can lend his expertise to to help us solve (well, come as close to a solution, as there probably is not real world solution that will wipe everything "clean.")

I'm hopeful in how this will play out and think he is the right person to lead on these issues.

JimmyV

By far, #2 will prove to be the hardest.

dimitrispearljam

JimmyV wrote:

By far, #2 will prove to be the hardest.

the #2 isnt something you can buy ...or do wars for get it...
its impossible to happens..will need like 100 years

dimitrispearljam

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I have to say I'm somewhat optimistic Obama will address the Newtown tragedy appropriately. It was heartening that after having a bit of time (but not too much) to gather his thoughts about the issues involved, he addressed what amounts to the proverbial "3 legged stool" that will be necessary:

1. Mental Illness
2. Culture
3. Guns

While 3 should be the easiest and most direct to address (so, might happen the quickest), it is nice to see he is not following the simple play card and addressing all the primary issues involved here.

My optimism also stems from the fact that this is the kind of thing his experience is most likely to help. That is, as a community organizer, these are the types of things (among others), that he would have to consider in his daily work even if they were only tangential to the specific issue he was dealing with. Also, these things are very much community based objectives that hopefully he can lend his expertise to to help us solve (well, come as close to a solution, as there probably is not real world solution that will wipe everything "clean.")

I'm hopeful in how this will play out and think he is the right person to lead on these issues.

i was thinking...he dont have anything to loose...its his second 4 years..so he will not be elected again
its his chance to do something will stay in history..

JimmyV

dimitrispearljam wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I have to say I'm somewhat optimistic Obama will address the Newtown tragedy appropriately. It was heartening that after having a bit of time (but not too much) to gather his thoughts about the issues involved, he addressed what amounts to the proverbial "3 legged stool" that will be necessary:

1. Mental Illness
2. Culture
3. Guns

While 3 should be the easiest and most direct to address (so, might happen the quickest), it is nice to see he is not following the simple play card and addressing all the primary issues involved here.

My optimism also stems from the fact that this is the kind of thing his experience is most likely to help. That is, as a community organizer, these are the types of things (among others), that he would have to consider in his daily work even if they were only tangential to the specific issue he was dealing with. Also, these things are very much community based objectives that hopefully he can lend his expertise to to help us solve (well, come as close to a solution, as there probably is not real world solution that will wipe everything "clean.")

I'm hopeful in how this will play out and think he is the right person to lead on these issues.

i was thinking...he dont have anything to loose...its his second 4 years..so he will not be elected again
its his chance to do something will stay in history..

This is the hope for every President's second term. Unfortunately it usually proves to be more complicated and difficult than we think.

dimitrispearljam

JimmyV wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

I have to say I'm somewhat optimistic Obama will address the Newtown tragedy appropriately. It was heartening that after having a bit of time (but not too much) to gather his thoughts about the issues involved, he addressed what amounts to the proverbial "3 legged stool" that will be necessary:

1. Mental Illness
2. Culture
3. Guns

While 3 should be the easiest and most direct to address (so, might happen the quickest), it is nice to see he is not following the simple play card and addressing all the primary issues involved here.

My optimism also stems from the fact that this is the kind of thing his experience is most likely to help. That is, as a community organizer, these are the types of things (among others), that he would have to consider in his daily work even if they were only tangential to the specific issue he was dealing with. Also, these things are very much community based objectives that hopefully he can lend his expertise to to help us solve (well, come as close to a solution, as there probably is not real world solution that will wipe everything "clean.")

I'm hopeful in how this will play out and think he is the right person to lead on these issues.

i was thinking...he dont have anything to loose...its his second 4 years..so he will not be elected again
its his chance to do something will stay in history..

This is the hope for every President's second term. Unfortunately it usually proves to be more complicated and difficult than we think.

i think he cant do it alone..need congress ,right?
well..lets see some balls there..who cares about people,and put peoples safety first of all the rest..

JimmyV

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i think he cant do it alone..need congress ,right?
well..lets see some balls there..who cares about people,and put peoples safety first of all the rest..

Needs Congress, but also needs a sizable chunk of the American people behind him. Not necessarily a majority but pretty close. Unfortunately, we as a society often have short memories.

rollings

JimmyV wrote:

By far, #2 will prove to be the hardest.

Right. And this may necessarily involve just the time for a generation or two to pass.


There are other cultures where mental illness does not have the stigmatism that it does in ours.

and there are countries that successfully prohibit gun ownership (Japan).

So there is hope

pandora

I wish mental illness would be # 1 priority, that would give me hope.

JC29856

JimmyV wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i think he cant do it alone..need congress ,right?
well..lets see some balls there..who cares about people,and put peoples safety first of all the rest..

Needs Congress, but also needs a sizable chunk of the American people behind him. Not necessarily a majority but pretty close. Unfortunately, we as a society often have short memories.

given what was done (or not done) when obama "had" congress during (a part) his first term.... doesnt leave me with much hope (there's that word again)

EdsonNascimento

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i think he cant do it alone..need congress ,right?
well..lets see some balls there..who cares about people,and put peoples safety first of all the rest..

Has nothing to do with Congress. But, to provide a history lesson, 2nd terms tend to be less "successful" than initial terms. Even Reagan faced that (though to a lesser degree than most).

The whole rhetoric that someone's been working 4 years to prevent his election, etc. and now he's "free" to do as he wants is hogwash. Doesn't really work that way. That's all propaganda. Very rare a President has Congress in his party (Even Reagan).

I didn't want to derail this thread, because I hope it to be a postivie one. But, those are the historical facts. Perhaps, he'll buck the trend. But, he'd be extremely unique in that. And it has NOTHING to do with Congress.

EdsonNascimento

pandora wrote:

I wish mental illness would be # 1 priority, that would give me hope.

Even if he gets the gun laws changed before this does not necessarily mean this is not the #1 priority. That is a lot more difficult task. The gun laws are purely political (I mean c'mon who REALLY thinks owning magazines of bullets makes sense?). Mental Illness will face that as well, but there's many more obstacles and issues to consider that might make this take a bit longer to address more completely even if it's the #1 priority.

Now changing the culture....

EdsonNascimento

JimmyV wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i think he cant do it alone..need congress ,right?
well..lets see some balls there..who cares about people,and put peoples safety first of all the rest..

Needs Congress, but also needs a sizable chunk of the American people behind him. Not necessarily a majority but pretty close. Unfortunately, we as a society often have short memories.

Fact. And also why your noting culture change being the hardest is spot on.

JimmyV

EdsonNascimento wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i think he cant do it alone..need congress ,right?
well..lets see some balls there..who cares about people,and put peoples safety first of all the rest..

Has nothing to do with Congress. But, to provide a history lesson, 2nd terms tend to be less "successful" than initial terms. Even Reagan faced that (though to a lesser degree than most).

The whole rhetoric that someone's been working 4 years to prevent his election, etc. and now he's "free" to do as he wants is hogwash. Doesn't really work that way. That's all propaganda. Very rare a President has Congress in his party (Even Reagan).

I didn't want to derail this thread, because I hope it to be a postivie one. But, those are the historical facts. Perhaps, he'll buck the trend. But, he'd be extremely unique in that. And it has NOTHING to do with Congress.

He will need Congress to pass any laws, right? I think Congress will be deeply involved in any potential change. It can start with the President but he can't do it alone.

EdsonNascimento

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i was thinking...he dont have anything to loose...its his second 4 years..so he will not be elected again
its his chance to do something will stay in history..

And just to finish the thought above - the reason this logic doesn't work is because the flip of this is - nobody needs to work with him either b/c they KNOW they won't have to deal with him (or any 2nd term President) in 4 years. So, the whole 2nd term thing is really not a logical conclusion. There's a flip side to the coin. And it results in you being back where you started - there's no leverage gained or lost by any of this. If you know how to lead, you'll lead.

EdsonNascimento

JimmyV wrote:

EdsonNascimento wrote:

dimitrispearljam wrote:

i think he cant do it alone..need congress ,right?
well..lets see some balls there..who cares about people,and put peoples safety first of all the rest..

Has nothing to do with Congress. But, to provide a history lesson, 2nd terms tend to be less "successful" than initial terms. Even Reagan faced that (though to a lesser degree than most).

The whole rhetoric that someone's been working 4 years to prevent his election, etc. and now he's "free" to do as he wants is hogwash. Doesn't really work that way. That's all propaganda. Very rare a President has Congress in his party (Even Reagan).

I didn't want to derail this thread, because I hope it to be a postivie one. But, those are the historical facts. Perhaps, he'll buck the trend. But, he'd be extremely unique in that. And it has NOTHING to do with Congress.

He will need Congress to pass any laws, right? I think Congress will be deeply involved in any potential change. It can start with the President but he can't do it alone.

True. But, that's true of any President. The situation he's in is not unique to him. That's why I'm saying HIS success or failure, while reliant on Congress (obviously), has NOTHING to do with Congress and everything to do with how he manages them (if that makes sense).

I guess to make the point clearer - yes, the outcome includes Congress, but no, it is not unique to his situation.

brianlux

rollings wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

By far, #2 will prove to be the hardest.

Right. And this may necessarily involve just the time for a generation or two to pass.


There are other cultures where mental illness does not have the stigmatism that it does in ours.

and there are countries that successfully prohibit gun ownership (Japan).

So there is hope

Your vision of hope makes good sense to me, Rollings.

Good thread, Edson!

EdsonNascimento

brianlux wrote:

rollings wrote:

JimmyV wrote:

By far, #2 will prove to be the hardest.

Right. And this may necessarily involve just the time for a generation or two to pass.


There are other cultures where mental illness does not have the stigmatism that it does in ours.

and there are countries that successfully prohibit gun ownership (Japan).

So there is hope

Your vision of hope makes good sense to me, Rollings.

Good thread, Edson!

Thanks, and to hopefully keep this on track, I want to reiterate - I think Obama is WELL equipped to lead on these issues. And in that I include the very definition of leadership which is getting folks to follow.

dimitrispearljam

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Thanks, and to hopefully keep this on track, I want to reiterate - I think Obama is WELL equipped to lead on these issues. And in that I include the very definition of leadership which is getting folks to follow.

so,how this can work buddy?
how can pressure things?so moves things?
citizens??local society?mayor?some lobbies?

redrock

EdsonNascimento wrote:

2. Culture

If culture changes (for the best), everything can change. As said, unfortunately the longest and hardest thing to change.

Mental health - a wider issue that involves culture change.

Stricter controls - 'easy' (ish) and quick (ish). Of course not a fix for all the woes of the country but part of the problem alleviated already clearing a path - less rocks to stumble on.

Right now, people are still in shock. All kinds of emotions - anger, sadness, realisation. This leads to them willing/wanting to change things. My hope is that this 'gut reaction' becomes more than that and that this one too many tragic event sets off a chain of events...

brianlux

EdsonNascimento wrote:

Thanks, and to hopefully keep this on track, I want to reiterate - I think Obama is WELL equipped to lead on these issues. And in that I include the very definition of leadership which is getting folks to follow.

Good point! It would help of those in office would act more like leaders and less like politicians. I think that could happen in this case.