Weak plan to save Kyoto pushes climate talks to brink
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,089
To my way of thinking, this whole thing is a clusterfuck of epic proportions. Weak proposals on limits to carbon. US never ratifies. Russia, Japan and Canada pulling out (while the planet gets screwed anyway). And the sketchy plans to give money to developing nations who are suffering due to climate change? Good idea in theory but without any accountability, probably a waste of money.
Your thoughts?
http://news.yahoo.com/weak-plan-save-ky ... 24045.html
DOHA (Reuters) - Weak proposals to extend until 2020 a shrivelled U.N. plan to fight climate change pushed marathon talks to the brink of collapse on Saturday.
Delegates from nearly 200 nations spent hours poring over a package deal put forward by the host, OPEC member Qatar, that would also postpone until 2013 a row over demands from developing nations for more cash to help them cope with global warming.
Developing nations were divided over the modest deal that all sides said fell short of recommendations by scientists for tougher action to try to avert more heatwaves, sandstorms, floods, droughts and rising sea levels.
"They face two unpalatable options - accept a weak text or risk the collapse of the entire talks," said Alden Meyer of the Union of Concerned Scientists.
The draft deal would extend the Kyoto Protocol for eight years. It had obliged about 35 industrialised nations to cut greenhouse gas emissions by an average of at least 5.2 percent below 1990 levels during the period from 2008 to 2012.
Kyoto will expire at the end of 2012 if it is not extended and has been weakened by the withdrawals of Russia, Japan and Canada. The United States never ratified it, and its backers, led by the European Union and Australia, account for just 15 percent of world greenhouse gas emissions.
Expiry of Kyoto would leave the world with no legally binding deal to confront global warming, merely a patchwork of national laws to rein in rising carbon emissions.
The two-week U.N. meeting in the Qatari capital had been due to end on Friday but the talks went on past midday on Saturday.
"I believe this is a package we can all live with," conference president Abdullah bin Hamad Al-Attiyah said as he presented the Qatari proposal early on Saturday.
Most importantly, the proposal would keep alive hopes for a new, global U.N. deal to fight climate change due to be agreed by 2015 and enter into force by 2020 after past failures.
The 2015 deal would set goals for all nations, including emerging economies led by China and India that have no targets under Kyoto.
TARGET REVIEW
Qatar proposes that parties to Kyoto would have to revisit their targets for cuts in greenhouse gas emissions by 2014, perhaps to make tougher goals, a concession to developing nations that had wanted Kyoto extended by only five years.
In a blow to the demands of developing nations for a clear timetable for a promised tenfold increase in aid to $100 billion a year by 2020, the draft deal merely agreed to put off decisions to 2013.
"The only thing that negotiators seem to be able to agree on is to defer difficult decisions to the next meeting," said Kumi Naidoo, head of environmental group Greenpeace.
The United States, Europe and other developed nations, facing an economic slowdown at home, have refused to set a timetable for a rise in aid.
The document also outlined possible ways to meet developing nations' demands for a new mechanism, including insurance, to help them confront losses and damage caused by rising sea levels or storms linked to climate change.
"On balance it seems to be fair," Brazilian negotiator Luiz Alberto Figueiredo said of the package. "I think everybody won."
World carbon dioxide emissions are set to rise by 2.6 percent this year, and are more than 50 percent higher than in 1990. Recent growth has come mostly from emerging nations, led by China and India.
Your thoughts?
http://news.yahoo.com/weak-plan-save-ky ... 24045.html
DOHA (Reuters) - Weak proposals to extend until 2020 a shrivelled U.N. plan to fight climate change pushed marathon talks to the brink of collapse on Saturday.
Delegates from nearly 200 nations spent hours poring over a package deal put forward by the host, OPEC member Qatar, that would also postpone until 2013 a row over demands from developing nations for more cash to help them cope with global warming.
Developing nations were divided over the modest deal that all sides said fell short of recommendations by scientists for tougher action to try to avert more heatwaves, sandstorms, floods, droughts and rising sea levels.
"They face two unpalatable options - accept a weak text or risk the collapse of the entire talks," said Alden Meyer of the Union of Concerned Scientists.
The draft deal would extend the Kyoto Protocol for eight years. It had obliged about 35 industrialised nations to cut greenhouse gas emissions by an average of at least 5.2 percent below 1990 levels during the period from 2008 to 2012.
Kyoto will expire at the end of 2012 if it is not extended and has been weakened by the withdrawals of Russia, Japan and Canada. The United States never ratified it, and its backers, led by the European Union and Australia, account for just 15 percent of world greenhouse gas emissions.
Expiry of Kyoto would leave the world with no legally binding deal to confront global warming, merely a patchwork of national laws to rein in rising carbon emissions.
The two-week U.N. meeting in the Qatari capital had been due to end on Friday but the talks went on past midday on Saturday.
"I believe this is a package we can all live with," conference president Abdullah bin Hamad Al-Attiyah said as he presented the Qatari proposal early on Saturday.
Most importantly, the proposal would keep alive hopes for a new, global U.N. deal to fight climate change due to be agreed by 2015 and enter into force by 2020 after past failures.
The 2015 deal would set goals for all nations, including emerging economies led by China and India that have no targets under Kyoto.
TARGET REVIEW
Qatar proposes that parties to Kyoto would have to revisit their targets for cuts in greenhouse gas emissions by 2014, perhaps to make tougher goals, a concession to developing nations that had wanted Kyoto extended by only five years.
In a blow to the demands of developing nations for a clear timetable for a promised tenfold increase in aid to $100 billion a year by 2020, the draft deal merely agreed to put off decisions to 2013.
"The only thing that negotiators seem to be able to agree on is to defer difficult decisions to the next meeting," said Kumi Naidoo, head of environmental group Greenpeace.
The United States, Europe and other developed nations, facing an economic slowdown at home, have refused to set a timetable for a rise in aid.
The document also outlined possible ways to meet developing nations' demands for a new mechanism, including insurance, to help them confront losses and damage caused by rising sea levels or storms linked to climate change.
"On balance it seems to be fair," Brazilian negotiator Luiz Alberto Figueiredo said of the package. "I think everybody won."
World carbon dioxide emissions are set to rise by 2.6 percent this year, and are more than 50 percent higher than in 1990. Recent growth has come mostly from emerging nations, led by China and India.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.” Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
Democracy Dies in Darkness- Washington PostPost edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php?p=13674%3Cbr
one thing i want to say.....weaker, poorer nations DO seek ways to get money from bigger, richer nations!
Also, if India and Russia and China do nothing to curb their emisssions, then why should the USA?
Also, why would we take a beating while China surpasses us on every level?
If there were 5 kids playing a game....and 4 of them were cheating, while one was not, the one that wasnt cheating is going to lose! Apply this common sense to the current global negotiations on climate change!
While this is a worthwile effort and compassionate for mother earth, nothing we do can save the world.....only God can do that! The day we perish, is the day mother earth begins her next stage! So all your efforts will not even delay that day of reckoning!
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
Well let's look at this from the developing country's point of view. The West has had the entire time since the industrial revolution to pollute the world and exploit it for their benefit - including stealing land and resources form said developing countries. And now we want then to stop their development. The kid at the table no longer cheating has been cheating for the last few hundred years and now wants everyone else to play fair???
We've raped the earth for too long and we now need to lead the way on cleaning it up. China is investing a lot of its resources in sustainable energies. We're the ones falling behind the pack.
If the West does not like countries that don't curb their emission the answer is simple - don't trade with them until they clean up their acts - but which one of you will be the first to say no to cheap imported goods? We all benefit from economies that use slave labour, dirty technology and draconian political systems.
For the record - there is no god and expecting help from a mythical man in the sky is like wishing cancer away. We need to man up now and change our over use of the world's resources before it is to late. I can't imagine having to sit down with my grand kids and apologise for fucking up the globe because it made better economic sense.
At the end of the day, the world will be fine - we'll become extinct and the world will go on without us and right itself without the human cancer on it.
Yes, and even if another country is not doing their share to curb emissions, it doesn't make sense to say, "why should we?"
The way to stop trading for imported cheap goods is to buy domestic or even local goods that are durable. Pay more and limit consumption. Instead of 10 items that are cheap crap that will break down in a short period of time, buy just a few that will last a long time. Kurt Vonnegut said, "we could have saved the word but we were too damn cheap."
Yeah, bringing God into a discussion on climate change... leaves me speechless. Better left that way lest I break a few posting rules.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
I just dont understand if these people really thought it was true.....why wouldnt they be hosting summits, pushing legislation, emergency prepardeness, etc. I see no urgency from those who say they are active believers. I see no proposals from Obama. No new ideas! Not one new idea! Where are they?
HMMMMMMMMMMMMMM I dont believe it! Cause if the believers arent urgent about it, why should I be?
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
Yeah, I don't hold out much hope for these conferences. Nothing even close to substantial has come out of them. The most hopeful work toward climate change that I've seen comes from the many scientists working on the issue like the folks at realclimate.org (the videos on the realclimate.org thread above are worth checking out), the information compiled by the Union of Concerned Scientists (ucsusa.org) and the activist work 350.org is doing. My puny little efforts to learn as much as I can about climate change and other environmental issues and to disseminate some of that information might also end up just being so much blah blah blah... but I'll keep doing it anyway.
Its all about re-distributing the wealth of the world!
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
but dont you see brian??? were trying... do you think we like travelling all over the world attending these conferences burning up fossil fuels??? we do want to find solutions... just not this week... and just not at this conference. garcon! more of your finest wine please.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
define wealth.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
...and some of that fine caviar, si vou plait!
thats from a sustainable source i hope brian.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Only from the finest recycled sturgeon, of course!
define wealth.[/quote]
Slowing down the production of industrialized nations, while using the money from those nations to purchase resources, metals, etc. from nations that arent so industrialized! Its a shift of money and wealth!
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
define wealth.[/quote]
Slowing down the production of industrialized nations, while using the money from those nations to purchase resources, metals, etc. from nations that arent so industrialized! Its a shift of money and wealth![/quote]
and the profits end up where???
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Slowing down the production of industrialized nations, while using the money from those nations to purchase resources, metals, etc. from nations that arent so industrialized! Its a shift of money and wealth![/quote]
and the profits end up where???[/quote]
Probably in the hands of AL GORE to fund his amazing internet!
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!
jeez i hope so cause id hate to have to change out of my jammies and go back to the old days of interacting with people face to face outside.... in society.
take a good look
this could be the day
hold my hand
lie beside me
i just need to say
Look, I'm not dissing what the man has done... not altogether, but that's like asking your favorite rock star who to vote for.
Garçon!