How can we humans get back in balance with nature?
brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 42,408
Redrock posted this: "Some [people who live closer to nature] do Brian but it must be very difficult. Completely 'unlearning' our life, our conditioning. You mentioned Gaia in another thread... How can we become part of this community (as a living organism) again? Not just the tangible aspect of mother nature but the wider 'philosophical' earth, the 'connection'." in another thread and because it seems I was taking off on a tangent from that thread I thought to respond here and hopefully get some discussion going in the direction of this thread's title.
I've been reading a lot lately about what has gone wrong with the environmental movement. Several people well studied in this field including Derrick Jensen, Neil Evernden, Wendell Berry and Richard Manning have made attempts to show that the environmental movement has failed largely because there has been a huge tendency to see humans as separate from nature. Our earliest attempts at establishing natural preserves include, for example, Teddy Roosevelt's efforts to set aside natural places. This effort has often hailed as the beginnings of environmentalism when actually much of the impetus for doing so was to set aside places for elitist hunting clubs carry out their sport more so than it was for the general public's benefit. Even to the extent these place have been set aside from industrialism, they are often what Manning refers to as "scenic zoos" and he asserts that "the environmental movement became a mountain-and-forest movement"- in other words, mostly only scenic areas have been saved.* He goes on to say:
"A mature environmentalism rejects industrialism's imposed dichotomy of man against nature, the idea that we damage nature to serve ourselves. That has it backward. If there is any truth to the assertion of our connection to nature, it is that when we damage nature, we damage ourselves. And when we misunderstand nature, we misunderstand ourselves."**
By separating ourselves from nature and separating fragments of nature from ourselves what we have done is little more than assemble what Wendell Berry refers to as "a reservoir of symbols".
An example of re-aligning ourselves with nature is the notion of halting the mostly useless habit of plowing arid grasslands or overgrazing them with non-native cattle and restoring the great American plains to grassland on which hunting is allowed. I'm not in favor of hunting as personal choice but the argument is that restoring the plains to grassland and allowing hunting would produce more protein food than grazing cattle, would allow the reintroduction of mega fauna to these areas and would allow the reestablishing of a wide range of native plant species which support much life and retain soil. Elk, moose, bear and wolves are indigenous to grasslands , not mountains. Mountains have become there place of last retreat. Animals and native people lived quite well and happily on these natural grass landscapes or thousands of years.
I'm not saying we all need to become hunter-gatherers but it makes sense that we look at a future where that kind of life is at least reintroduced to some degree and that we find other ways to see and act as part of nature. This is not just theory. Many people are working seriously toward this goal.
Other thoughts, ideas?
* Manning, Grassland p.6
** "" p.8
I've been reading a lot lately about what has gone wrong with the environmental movement. Several people well studied in this field including Derrick Jensen, Neil Evernden, Wendell Berry and Richard Manning have made attempts to show that the environmental movement has failed largely because there has been a huge tendency to see humans as separate from nature. Our earliest attempts at establishing natural preserves include, for example, Teddy Roosevelt's efforts to set aside natural places. This effort has often hailed as the beginnings of environmentalism when actually much of the impetus for doing so was to set aside places for elitist hunting clubs carry out their sport more so than it was for the general public's benefit. Even to the extent these place have been set aside from industrialism, they are often what Manning refers to as "scenic zoos" and he asserts that "the environmental movement became a mountain-and-forest movement"- in other words, mostly only scenic areas have been saved.* He goes on to say:
"A mature environmentalism rejects industrialism's imposed dichotomy of man against nature, the idea that we damage nature to serve ourselves. That has it backward. If there is any truth to the assertion of our connection to nature, it is that when we damage nature, we damage ourselves. And when we misunderstand nature, we misunderstand ourselves."**
By separating ourselves from nature and separating fragments of nature from ourselves what we have done is little more than assemble what Wendell Berry refers to as "a reservoir of symbols".
An example of re-aligning ourselves with nature is the notion of halting the mostly useless habit of plowing arid grasslands or overgrazing them with non-native cattle and restoring the great American plains to grassland on which hunting is allowed. I'm not in favor of hunting as personal choice but the argument is that restoring the plains to grassland and allowing hunting would produce more protein food than grazing cattle, would allow the reintroduction of mega fauna to these areas and would allow the reestablishing of a wide range of native plant species which support much life and retain soil. Elk, moose, bear and wolves are indigenous to grasslands , not mountains. Mountains have become there place of last retreat. Animals and native people lived quite well and happily on these natural grass landscapes or thousands of years.
I'm not saying we all need to become hunter-gatherers but it makes sense that we look at a future where that kind of life is at least reintroduced to some degree and that we find other ways to see and act as part of nature. This is not just theory. Many people are working seriously toward this goal.
Other thoughts, ideas?
* Manning, Grassland p.6
** "" p.8
"Pretty cookies, heart squares all around, yeah!"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
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Oh yeah, (don't cha hate it when a thread goes skidding off to a whole other direction?) So back to nature.
I live in the rockies. This actually means I live in the plains below the rockies. Yes, our rangeland does get overgrazed. Yes, our water oftentimes gets diverted too quickly only to end up swamping an already over saturated Mississippi delta. (couldnt help myself, I had to spell it out like we all did in gradeschool just cuz it's so much fun! miss - iss - i - ppi!)
Energy reserves are nestled within the rockies. Development is rampant. I could go on (except I'm trying to wean myself) so I'll just flip to the other side. This year, (because we keep swamping that delta) the army core of engineers opened many flood gates to our reserviors in January -- anticipating another bumper rain season. Well, it didn't happen but down went our watershed anyway. By the way, you advocate for the reintroduction of wolves -- something I've been meaning to talk with you about. But anyway, as with rangeland overgrazing, the BLM hastened this season (because of no rain) to limit the grazing permits. Meanwhile, I expect to see the army core learn a lesson and next year -- not dump so damn much water. Guess what I'm saying is: we have gov entities attempting to do the right thing. Too slowly you think? Why of course! The wheels of gov are fixed just that way. Do we have time to get our house in order at this rate? Why no! Which brings us full circle once again! I think it's all about time for all humanity the same way as you are only with regards to alll-things-enviorment! And, I'd guess by now you know what I'm relentless about and I'd state it except I don't want your thread to go a-skidding!
Have a great weekend. Out here, the weather is still delightful.
This is an idea I've really been struggling with lately. It can't be forced by the government nor mandated by business but rather a movement we create for ourselves. The problem with this is that there are not enough of us that want to do it and even fewer that can commit to the extreme changes that I think would be necessary to create what you are describing. So how do we reconnect with nature? We can't just do it on the weekend nor during a camping trip. I think it requires a whole life change but maybe I'm just limited in my thinking and can't see a third way - I'd really like to hear some other thoughts on the matter.
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
I think it is important to continue to press our governing officials to make wise environmental choices but the progress that way has been too slow. The US, one of the major contributors of carbon in the atmosphere, continues to drag it's feet on carbon reducing legislation. So yes, it would help to see our governing officials be more proactive that way but I think the first thing we need to do is look at how we as individuals see our ourselves in relation to nature. Derrick Jensen said,
"All of us who participate in a system that 'makes' money at the expense of our ecological base - upon which not only our economics but our lives depend- are signing our own death warrants. Allowing our crazy system to destroy our land base is not merely unethical and unwise but suicidal." (A Language Older Than Words p.369)
We would do well to hold ourselves accountable and also to remember that we are "the governors as well as the governed".
You have a good weekend too, Dancepartner. We're battening down the hatches here on the west coast. A big three day blow with flooding rains is afoot.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
riotgirl said; "This is an idea I've really been struggling with lately. It can't be forced by the government nor mandated by business but rather a movement we create for ourselves."
I knew if I hung out here long enough -- I'd find a kindred spirit!
Brian; batten down tight. Next week we can talk about those wolves!
Again, I think the first step is to rethink how we view ourselves in relation to nature. If we teach ourselves to think more and more as being a part of nature this thinking gets passed on to our children. I'm very thankful that my parents took me camping and hiking and engaged in many outdoor activities. That had a huge impact on my outlook.
The other thing that helps is to learn or at least try to learn to communicate with other animals and even plants. Cleve Backster has made a long career of working with biocommunication. Plants respond well to positive energy. Those kinds of things help us see ourselves as part of a bigger whole and we learn to be more careful about how we live.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Yes, this is very true. My husband always tells me I think too big instead of taking small steps! And I do love reading Wendell Berry, he has some amazing wisdom to pass on!
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Kindred spirits, indeed. I think there are a few here I'd like to think are kindred spirits!
Seems my preconceptions are what should have been burned...
I AM MINE
Profit and Greed will always trump environment.
As you pointed out before (or polaris I think) Only thing that matters is getting the economy cranking. Consume! No talk of the environment.
The only way it will change is when companies start realizing the huge profits that will come with Alternate fuels etc.
Anway, there is another option...
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
This is a fascinating idea, Mickyrat. I was just listening to Television's epic song, "Marquee Moon", and loving the strange and wonderful images from nature:
I remember
How the darkness doubled
I recall
Lightning struck itself.
I was listening
Listening to the rain
I was hearing
Hearing something else.
Life in the hive puckered up my night,
The kiss of death, the embrace of life.
There I stand neath the Marquee Moon Just waiting,
Hesitating
Yeah, art leading to thoughts of nature... yes.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Bookstores, museums, crayons, paint, pen and paper, telling bedtime stories, a simple musical instrument, play-doh, not to mention so much available online.
For me, living in the heart of LA with much concrete around, I connect to nature as I can and make a point of seeing the beauty around me. High treetops seen and appreciated from here. Most mornings I watch the sunrise. Observing our cats (and playing with them!). Smelling the air - especially this time of year. Even watching certain documentaries. Then there are the people - not those physically beautiful, but those who stand out because of something extraordinary within, that can't help but be seen.
I guess this doesn't address the environmental movement you speak of (still need to give that more thought), but figured I'd touch upon the subject line itself first.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
humans in powerful positions ruin everything they touch. life is supposed to be pretty simple actually and enjoyable, free, free to be as you wish without harming others or this planet. many will read this & statements like this and believe i am nuts & that those of us who have such beliefs are into some kind of witch craft american indian hokus pokus.
water is a living thing as are the trees and the air. if we poison the environment we are killing plant life, the air we breathe, the water we drink, everything. why?
everything is a circle. we are all connected; shark, eagle, salmon, apple orchard, beaver, prestine lake or otherwise. maybe the chemicals dumped into the sea are killing us because we are eating the fish with poisons in them. it's not hard to figure out folks.
human beings are not kind, mankind my foot. this united states was once so much more beautiful than it is today. can you imagine the beauty that was once alive & well before the great expanding of this country? plus all the other modern societies & what they have done, what they've started. it isn't pretty, folks.
rivers have been detoured killing off mass numbers of fish. the salmon ladders have saved the salmon, sure. what about the sturgeon? the sturgeon are fucked over.
humans & their guns... this is a sad fucking story. as humans we just gotta kill & ruin something. we will shoot (& later mount) the great rainforest bear(s) because we can. all while drilling for oil & destroying the earth with oil spills, eruptions in pipes above water & earth & below soil & water. what the fuck are we doing?
we are being let by those in charge, the government. those in charge are not good. are we are just along for the ride? some are, many are actually. many go with the flow & do zero research on their own. many believe what is told to them by the television networks, by the media, by the government & they believe what big money spews out. fuck that. do not trust big money & the crooked fuckers in government.
what about the redwood forests? the coral reefs? how long can the redwoods & coral reefs last our bullshit? what about the last remaining lonliest animal on the planet?
http://youtu.be/NR3Z4p5hspI
lonesome george
"Hear me, my chiefs!
I am tired; my heart is
sick and sad. From where
the sun stands I will fight
no more forever."
Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
Thanks for great thoughts here, Chadwick, and that video of Lonesome George- oh, heartbreaking. It's hard to think about the reality of a species as grand as his being reduced to one member. And of course people are going to want to go to places like the Galapagos with the excuse of being "Eco-tourists", an absurd oxymoron. Why do have we have to place our mark on everything? This morning I made an excursion to my porch to watch a hummingbird searching for food in the midst of strong wind and pounding rain. I didn't need to get in a car or plane and go to some far off exotic place to educate myself about nature. I just stepped outside.
Edit: By "Eco-tourism" I mean going to places that have fragile ecosystems with the thought or intent of someone believing they have a right to do so because they are "environmentally conscious" or because they honestly believe that is the way to become educated about a particular facet of nature. In the past, I've been to two Nature Conservancy preserves so to some degree it could be said I've engaged in eco-tourism. That was probably twenty years ago. I don't do that any more.
I don't consider going to a park, weather it be local, state, national or international the same as eco-tourism. Most often I would refer to that as "industrial tourism", especially going to places like Yosemite or Yellowstone which I've also done but with decreasing frequently. More often, I find myself on a beach or in the forest or field somewhere enjoying nature and picking up other people's trash.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Which part, Mickyrat?
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
6/29/06 - Milwaukee, WI
9/25/11 - Vancouver, BC
11/4/12 - (Eddie Vedder) Phoenix, AZ
11/1/13 - New Orleans, LA
11/19/13 - Phoenix, AZ
11/21/13 - San Diego, CA
10/12/14 - Austin, TX
10/22/14 - Denver, CO
8/22/16 - Chicago, IL (Wrigley 2)
5/9/22 - Glendale, AZ
5/18/24 - Las Vegas, NV
I think kids need to spend time in massive forrests, near the ocean, or immerse themselves more in nature (somehow). This is not easy for many though. I was lucky enough to grow up on the ocean and near the Florida Keys, and being a little explorer opened my eyes to how much bigger things are and how I should respect all of it.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I never thought of picking up other people's trash that way but, why not.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
Hmm, THEN use that trash to make art with.
I could be on to something big here.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I think you are, indeed! I can't find the article, but here are similar pictures for further inspiration for you! Hurry, before the idea catches on here in the west!
http://www.google.com/search?q=art+made ... 66&bih=596
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
we will ultimately find a balance ... it is inevitable ... what nature will be when that happens - i am not sure ... i do know that between then and now - we will witness mass suffering, extinction and tragedy ... it is sad to think that we, as humans, are in many ways stupider than we ever have been and continue to get more so with each passing day ...
Exactly. If I had to answer my own question with one simple phrase (though I don't see a solution as being "simple") it would be: The best course for bringing humans back into balance with nature is for us to become biocentric in our thinking as opposed to anthropocentric.
We see ourselves as separate from nature and as more important that the rest of life. As long as we maintain this line of thinking we have sealed our fate. What makes sense (to me anyway) would be to begin to change our thinking to a biocentric view and let that kind of thinking and action be an example to children.
It is sad, polaris_x, to see how stupid we have become- and not just stupid, but greatly arrogant to think we are smart enough to live outside of and outsmart nature.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"
http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/12/03-0
Global Pollution Hits Record High, Frighteningly Hot Future Seems 'Inevitable'
'Carbon pollution up to 2 million pounds a second'
- Common Dreams staff
New global carbon emission numbers released on Sunday show that the world is heading in the exact wrong direction when it comes to its energy production policies and scientists at the Global Carbon Project now say that frightening climate change impacts are all but inevitable without a "radical plan" to decrease the level of greenhouse gasses spewing into the atmosphere.
Activists have been protesting at the climate change conference in Doha as new report shows emissions are at an all-time high (Reuters) The research by the Global Carbon Project, which releases an annual report card on global CO2 pollution, says emissions grew by over 3 percent in 2011, keeping the world on a nearly certain path towards dangerous changes to the climate, including more floods, droughts and more powerful and frequent storms.
As the Associated Press reports:
[...] all the world's nations combined pumped nearly 38.2 billion tons of carbon dioxide into the air from the burning of fossil fuels such as coal and oil, according to new international calculations on global emissions published Sunday in the journal Nature Climate Change. That's about a billion tons more than the previous year.
The total amounts to more than 2.4 million pounds (1.1 million kilograms) of carbon dioxide released into the air every second.
The GCP report is the latest in a string of dramatic scientific findings released as the UN Climate Change Conference deliberates a new global framework in Doha, Qatar. All the reports tell parts to the same story: climate change is here now and it's going to get much worse if world governments cannot find a way to change course in short order.
Though a past agreement saw leaders agree that preventing anything more than a 2°C global temperature rise should be the unifying goal, all the scientific evidence, including this latest report, show temperatures rising much beyond that.
"Unless large and concerted global mitigation efforts are initiated soon, the goal of remaining below 2°C will soon become unachievable," says the report. "A shift to a 2°C pathway requires immediate significant and sustained global mitigation, with a probable reliance on net negative emissions in the longer term."
"I am worried that the risks of dangerous climate change are too high on our current emissions trajectory. We need a radical plan," co-author Corinne Le Quéré, director of the Tyndall Center for Climate Change Research in Britain and professor at the University of East Anglia, told The Guardian.
As negotiators from around the world convene in Doha, however, a workable and achievable deal seems as far away as ever.
"The prospect of catastrophic climate change needs to change the mindsets of political leaders," said Martin Kaiser, Greenpeace climate campaigner.
But even Christiana Figueres, the UN Executive Secretary of the climate convention, said the global negotiations —even if nominally successful—would not be sufficient to the task. Realizing the countries are still primarily concerned with national interests, the big fights over policy would still need to be handled at that level.
“We won’t get an international agreement until enough domestic legislation and action are in place to begin to have an effect,” she said in an interview with the New York Times. “Governments have to find ways in which action on the ground can be accelerated and taken to a higher level, because that is absolutely needed.”
The New York Times reports:
Over all, global emissions jumped 3 percent in 2011 and are expected to jump 2.6 percent in 2012, researchers reported in two papers released by scientific journals on Sunday. It has become routine to set new emissions records each year, although the global economic crisis led to a brief decline in 2009.
The level of carbon dioxide, the most important heat-trapping gas in the atmosphere, has increased about 41 percent since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, and scientists fear it could double or triple before emissions are brought under control. The temperature of the planet has already increased about 1.5 degrees Fahrenheit since 1850.
Further increases in carbon dioxide are likely to have a profound effect on climate, scientists say, leading to higher seas and greater coastal flooding, more intense weather disasters like droughts and heat waves, and an extreme acidification of the ocean. Many experts believe the effects are already being seen, but they are projected to worsen.
-Eddie Vedder, "Smile"