Twinkies Are Forever.
Comments
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PJ_Soul wrote:
No, I actually live the reality of it. I am in a union, and i am telling you that most of your perceptions about how things are within a union environment are bullshit, and that that perception has been created by those whose interests lie in spreading such bullshit in an effort to get rid of unions for the sole reason of making more money by giving as little as possible to the workers.DS1119 wrote:PJ_Soul wrote:I understand what your perception of unions is, but you are just plain wrong. You've embraced some very twisted views of what most unions are about. Those twisted views are propagated by the execs because it feels their own interests. It's just a propaganda war and you have fallen for their side of it.
ANd perhaps you have fallen to the propaganda of unions? :?
One thing I will say is that there are a few bad apple unions out there, but they are very much the exception, not the rule.
...and I'm wondering why a management team who is trying to bring their product to market by spending the least on labor costs is a bad thing? Why is it bad to reward the hard worker and replace the inadequate one? Why is it bad to not want unions when quite simply someone not paying union dues to another form of bureaucracy and management team could be viewed as a raise?0 -
DS1119 wrote:If the business stops being productive and profitable that's the way it goes. If the guy who pumps the crèam into the Twinkies wants the same privelages as the guy who sits behind the big oak desks perhaps he should go back to school and work to get into that position?
a) the filling is inserted by a machine.
b) wow, what a totally obnoxious thing to say. And clueless. And plutocratic.0 -
Prince Of Dorkness wrote:DS1119 wrote:If the business stops being productive and profitable that's the way it goes. If the guy who pumps the crèam into the Twinkies wants the same privelages as the guy who sits behind the big oak desks perhaps he should go back to school and work to get into that position?
a) the filling is inserted by a machine.
b) wow, what a totally obnoxious thing to say. And clueless. And plutocratic.
Sorry. That's just reality. I don't have unicorns and butterflies flying out of my ass that can make it all better, and there's actually nothing wrong with the way business works. The workers at Hostess that lost their jobs are more than free in this country to start their own pastry company using their own capital, even a loan, and start their own business. Then they can sit behind the big oak desk.0 -
DS1119 wrote:Sorry. That's just reality. I don't have unicorns and butterflies flying out of my ass that can make it all better, and there's actually nothing wrong with the way business works. The workers at Hostess that lost their jobs are more than free in this country to start their own pastry company using their own capital, even a loan, and start their own business. Then they can sit behind the big oak desk.
Yes.
please... just like that... keep saying stuff like that. Show us the classist, plutocratic and obnoxious bullshit of the Romneys of the world... keep doing that for the next few years... remind the masses why they voted in overwhelming numbers against that bullshit.0 -
Because we as people ought to be working towards the greater good - paying people decent wages and providing them with benefits improve society as a whole. What you're talking about is letting those who will greedily profit undervalue the workers. They will.and do exactly that if the workers don't stand strongly for fair value. It reminds me of the US healthcare system, where the insurance companies are allowed to increase their profits by denying coverage... some things are just WRONG, and if there is a way to fight those things (I.e. labour unions), then that is wonderful as far as I'm concerned. It's strange that you ask what's wrong with what union busting companies do, but it doesn't seem to occur to you to ask what's wrong with workers trying to stand up for their well-being and fair treatment. You kind of seem to think that corporations are the only ones who have a justified right to stand up for what they want (the difference between the two being, of course, that one works to improve the lot forany who need it, while the other works to improve the lots for an already priviledged select few. I personally have no problem deciding which side I respect more).DS1119 wrote:PJ_Soul wrote:
No, I actually live the reality of it. I am in a union, and i am telling you that most of your perceptions about how things are within a union environment are bullshit, and that that perception has been created by those whose interests lie in spreading such bullshit in an effort to get rid of unions for the sole reason of making more money by giving as little as possible to the workers.DS1119 wrote:
ANd perhaps you have fallen to the propaganda of unions? :?
One thing I will say is that there are a few bad apple unions out there, but they are very much the exception, not the rule.
...and I'm wondering why a management team who is trying to bring their product to market by spending the least on labor costs is a bad thing? Why is it bad to reward the hard worker and replace the inadequate one? Why is it bad to not want unions when quite simply someone not paying union dues to another form of bureaucracy and management team could be viewed as a raise?
And your comment about keeping the good workers and replacing inadequate ones just again shows that you have been suckered by those whose interest it is for the public to think that way. It is pure bullshit that that is how it works in unions. Again, the bad apple unions where that is the case are few, but always the ones they hold up as examples of how it works. That simply is NOT the case. What MOST unions primarily do is protect workers from abuse of power, and ensure that they earn living wages and benefits for their hard, dedicated, and largely skilled labour. Most do NOT function to keep those who are inadequate or prevent those who are deserving from excelling. That is a union busting myth. Those who think that unions are no longer relevant are kidding themselves. Employers are as willing to mistreat and undervalue workers for their own massive profits today as they ever were. I see non reason at all not to fight for a system where business is mutually beneficial to all involved - the owners AND the workers. The owners have the money and the ownership on their side; the workers have the union on theirs. It's fair, and I like fairness.
I know your attitude is "if you work hard enough you can sit behind the big desk too; until you do, fuck you." And the men behind the desks rule the world ... That thinking completely undervalues the role of workers. To the point that it makes me a bit sick to my stomach knowing that people are vicious enough to have this attitude. Plus, if everyone worked to sit behind a big desk (as though that is SO much more valuable than all.other work in the world, and ever so rewarding to giant egos), who in the fuck would do all the real work that actually keeps the world functioning on a day to day basis? ... The people who keep the world functioning on a day to day basis deserve fair treatment and reasonable wages and benefits, and say, they need unions to fight for that since corporations are too greedy and unappreciative to give it of their own free will most of the time.With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata0 -
PJ_Soul wrote:
I know your attitude is "if you work hard enough you can sit behind the big desk too; until you do, fuck you." And the men behind the desks rule the world ... That thinking completely undervalues the role of workers. To the point that it makes me a bit sick to my stomach knowing that people are vicious enough to have this attitude. Plus, if everyone worked to sit behind a big desk (as though that is SO much more valuable than all.other work in the world, and ever so rewarding to giant egos), who in the fuck would do all the real work that actually keeps the world functioning on a day to day basis? ... The people who keep the world functioning on a day to day basis deserve fair treatment and reasonable wages and benefits, and say, they need unions to fight for that since corporations are too greedy and unappreciative to give it of their own free will most of the time.
Workers are treated fairly and with fair wages. If their current situation doesn't they are free to seek employment elsewhere. They are also free to start their own business using their own capital.0 -
Prince Of Dorkness wrote:DS1119 wrote:Sorry. That's just reality. I don't have unicorns and butterflies flying out of my ass that can make it all better, and there's actually nothing wrong with the way business works. The workers at Hostess that lost their jobs are more than free in this country to start their own pastry company using their own capital, even a loan, and start their own business. Then they can sit behind the big oak desk.
Yes.
please... just like that... keep saying stuff like that. Show us the classist, plutocratic and obnoxious bullshit of the Romneys of the world... keep doing that for the next few years... remind the masses why they voted in overwhelming numbers against that bullshit.
Overwhelming numbers? OK.
And yes thank you for your permission, I will continue thinking like this. I would have to think you offering Donald Trump 5 million dollars to shove a dildo up his ass may have been slightly more obnoxious, classist, and plutocratic but that's just me I guess.0 -
DS1119 wrote:I would have to think you offering Donald Trump 5 million dollars to shove a dildo up his ass may have been slightly more obnoxious, classist, and plutocratic but that's just me I guess.
Yes, it's just you.
the rest of us know what "classist" and "plutocratic" mean.0 -
DS1119 wrote:Workers are treated fairly and with fair wages. If their current situation doesn't they are free to seek employment elsewhere. They are also free to start their own business using their own capital.
And if YOU don't like how the majority of the American people voted and support the right of busines owners to pay their employees slave wages, treat them unfairly and expect them to work in unsafe conditions, you are free to move to North Korea where I'm sure you'll be much happier.0 -
Prince Of Dorkness wrote:DS1119 wrote:I would have to think you offering Donald Trump 5 million dollars to shove a dildo up his ass may have been slightly more obnoxious, classist, and plutocratic but that's just me I guess.
Yes, it's just you.
the rest of us know what "classist" and "plutocratic" mean.
I know what they mean and flashing around the ability to pay Trump 5 million dollars certainly fits, if in fact you do have 5 million bucks to apparently waste for something so ridiclulous.0 -
Prince Of Dorkness wrote:DS1119 wrote:Workers are treated fairly and with fair wages. If their current situation doesn't they are free to seek employment elsewhere. They are also free to start their own business using their own capital.
And if YOU don't like how the majority of the American people voted and support the right of busines owners to pay their employees slave wages, treat them unfairly and expect them to work in unsafe conditions, you are free to move to North Korea where I'm sure you'll be much happier.
I like the way American business is going. Every year unions shrink in this country and eventually they will be gone. Finally full accountability in the workplace and all of these union heads will actually have to find real and productive jobs.0 -
DS1119 wrote:Finally full accountability in the workplace and all of these union heads will actually have to find real and productive jobs.
Because making cars and construction and teaching aren't "productive" at all?0 -
DS1119 wrote:I know what they mean and flashing around the ability to pay Trump 5 million dollars certainly fits, if in fact you do have 5 million bucks to apparently waste for something so ridiclulous.
Yes. I was seriously going to offer Donald Trump $5 Million to go fuck himself.
That was a serious offer.
:fp:0 -
Prince Of Dorkness wrote:DS1119 wrote:I know what they mean and flashing around the ability to pay Trump 5 million dollars certainly fits, if in fact you do have 5 million bucks to apparently waste for something so ridiclulous.
Yes. I was seriously going to offer Donald Trump $5 Million to go fuck himself.
That was a serious offer.
:fp:
Shouldn't have said it then. What if he read it and took you up on your offer?0 -
Prince Of Dorkness wrote:DS1119 wrote:Finally full accountability in the workplace and all of these union heads will actually have to find real and productive jobs.
Because making cars and construction and teaching aren't "productive" at all?
3 industries in this country with serious serious issues. Couldn't possibly be the unions causing those issues? And when I said productive I was referring to the union heads. You know, the guys who sit behind big oak desks and make their incomes off of the actual workers through union dues.0 -
DS1119 wrote:Shouldn't have said it then. What if he read it and took you up on your offer?
then he would be the second-dumbest person in the Pearl Jam fanclub.0 -
DS1119 wrote:You know, the guys who sit behind big oak desks and make their incomes off of the actual workers through union dues.
Um... my father was the president of the professors union at the university he taught at and he still taught a full panel of classes, conducted the orchestra and had private students.
What's the "big oak desk" thing you keep going on about?0 -
Prince Of Dorkness wrote:DS1119 wrote:You know, the guys who sit behind big oak desks and make their incomes off of the actual workers through union dues.
Um... my father was the president of the professors union at the university he taught at and he still taught a full panel of classes, conducted the orchestra and had private students.
What's the "big oak desk" thing you keep going on about?
Imagine how much more productive he would have been if he only had to worry about his job.0 -
Prince Of Dorkness wrote:DS1119 wrote:Shouldn't have said it then. What if he read it and took you up on your offer?
then he would be the second-dumbest person in the Pearl Jam fanclub.
So now you're calling me stupid? You certainly can be offensive at times with the pictures you display and the names you throw around.0
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