America's voting system is a disgrace
Comments
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PJFAN13 wrote:Winston Churchill was right: “Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.”
America's voting system is screwy, for sure, and in need of a major overhaul. Funny how different states and counties have different procedures, machines, regulations, etc... but a 7-11 in Maine and a 7-11 in Oklahoma both have the exact same Slurpee's
On a serious note: I don't know where dignin is from as 81 inquired, but I do know that David Frum is from Canada. The one small challenge I have with a point in Frums piece is this: "...simply does not happen in Germany, Canada, Britain or France..."
a) I don't know anyone rushing out of America personally to go move there
b) the winners of those elections don't go on to become one of (if not the single) most prominent and preeminent human beings on the face of Planet Earth.
Which is why- as you ahave alluded to yourself- the US should not have a 'screwy voting system'. If the winner is about to become one of the most prominent human beings on the planet... shouldn't the methodology to determine who this person is be as close to flawless as possible?
And, being slightly petty in light of what you have also said... it's not exactly as if people from Germany, Canada, Britain or France are rushing to move to America. Your comment kind of suggested that other countries are inferior. Some, including myself, might beg to differ. I'll give you your military might- you could kick Canada's ass with a fraction of your might... but I'm not so sure I'd concede anything else at this point in time."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
I heard both candidates have their lawyers ready to fight....
great :fp:0 -
hippiemom = goodness0
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Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:Which is why- as you ahave alluded to yourself- the US should not have a 'screwy voting system'. If the winner is about to become one of the most prominent human beings on the planet... shouldn't the methodology to determine who this person is be as close to flawless as possible?
And, being slightly petty in light of what you have also said... it's not exactly as if people from Germany, Canada, Britain or France are rushing to move to America. Your comment kind of suggested that other countries are inferior. Some, including myself, might beg to differ. I'll give you your military might- you could kick Canada's ass with a fraction of your might... but I'm not so sure I'd concede anything else at this point in time.
I honestly am not suggesting superiority on the US part. I am sorry if that is how it is coming across, honestly. Wow. Plus the main point of Mr. Frum's article is, and I quote: Politicians of one party do not set voting schedules to favor their side and harm the other. Politicians do not move around voting places to gain advantages for themselves or to disadvantage their opponents. In fact, in almost no other country do politicians have any say in the administration of elections at all.
It is broken. It is screwy. We need a fix. My point comparing the other countries isn't USA is better, its just nobody I've ever talked to, worked with, conversed with is rushing to those countries because their voting methods are so superior. Again, sorry it isn't clear.
This is not an "us vs them" thing. I'm not being antagonistic. Please...calm down. Really. The US system is flawed.
happy election day11.30.93~10.2.96~9.13.98~9.1.00~8.25.00~7.3.03~7.5.03
7.9.03~9.28.04~10.1.05~5.12.06~5.13.06~5.27.06~5.28.06
8.5.08(EV)~10.9.09~5.21.10~6.20.11(EV)~7.5.11(EV)~7.9.11(EV)
11.21.13~8.27.16(EV)~11.14.16(TOTD)~4.13.20~9.27.20~9.26.21~10.2.21
2.15.22 (EV)~2.25.22 (EV)~2.27.22 (EV)~5.3.22~5.7.22~9.17.24~9.29.240 -
cincybearcat wrote:
Doesn't change the fact that there are huge lines of minorities waiting in line to vote for hours.0 -
PJFAN13 wrote:
Plus the main point of Mr. Frum's article is, and I quote: Politicians of one party do not set voting schedules to favor their side and harm the other. Politicians do not move around voting places to gain advantages for themselves or to disadvantage their opponents. In fact, in almost no other country do politicians have any say in the administration of elections at all.
It is broken. It is screwy. We need a fix.
You got to the heart of it right there.0 -
PJFAN13 wrote:Thirty Bills Unpaid wrote:Which is why- as you ahave alluded to yourself- the US should not have a 'screwy voting system'. If the winner is about to become one of the most prominent human beings on the planet... shouldn't the methodology to determine who this person is be as close to flawless as possible?
And, being slightly petty in light of what you have also said... it's not exactly as if people from Germany, Canada, Britain or France are rushing to move to America. Your comment kind of suggested that other countries are inferior. Some, including myself, might beg to differ. I'll give you your military might- you could kick Canada's ass with a fraction of your might... but I'm not so sure I'd concede anything else at this point in time.
I honestly am not suggesting superiority on the US part. I am sorry if that is how it is coming across, honestly. Wow. Plus the main point of Mr. Frum's article is, and I quote: Politicians of one party do not set voting schedules to favor their side and harm the other. Politicians do not move around voting places to gain advantages for themselves or to disadvantage their opponents. In fact, in almost no other country do politicians have any say in the administration of elections at all.
It is broken. It is screwy. We need a fix. My point comparing the other countries isn't USA is better, its just nobody I've ever talked to, worked with, conversed with is rushing to those countries because their voting methods are so superior. Again, sorry it isn't clear.
This is not an "us vs them" thing. I'm not being antagonistic. Please...calm down. Really. The US system is flawed.
happy election day
I'm calm. I misunderstood what you where getting at. It's all good.
In all seriousness... I know all my neighbours to the south are so optimistic today. Lots of dreams and hopes that their country can begin to make its way up that slope it began sliding down over a decade ago.
My hope is that regardless of the outcome... US citizens 'accept' the democratic selection regardless of what might have been hoped for and begin to do what is necessary to find commonality and move forward."My brain's a good brain!"0 -
dignin wrote:PJFAN13 wrote:
Plus the main point of Mr. Frum's article is, and I quote: Politicians of one party do not set voting schedules to favor their side and harm the other. Politicians do not move around voting places to gain advantages for themselves or to disadvantage their opponents. In fact, in almost no other country do politicians have any say in the administration of elections at all.
It is broken. It is screwy. We need a fix.
You got to the heart of it right there.
it goes well beyond that tho ... there are way more serious question marks in terms of the integrity of the system ... i just find is absurd that a country that preaches democracy more than any other has an easily manipulated democratic voting system ... and to me it points to the fact that is how the powers that be want it ...0 -
PJFAN13 wrote:I honestly am not suggesting superiority on the US part. I am sorry if that is how it is coming across, honestly. Wow. Plus the main point of Mr. Frum's article is, and I quote: Politicians of one party do not set voting schedules to favor their side and harm the other. Politicians do not move around voting places to gain advantages for themselves or to disadvantage their opponents. In fact, in almost no other country do politicians have any say in the administration of elections at all.
It is broken. It is screwy. We need a fix. My point comparing the other countries isn't USA is better, its just nobody I've ever talked to, worked with, conversed with is rushing to those countries because their voting methods are so superior. Again, sorry it isn't clear.
This is not an "us vs them" thing. I'm not being antagonistic. Please...calm down. Really. The US system is flawed.
happy election day
even if your point was to say that people aren't emigrating out of america because Canada's/Germany's/Britain's voting system is so superior, that's kind of a bizarre point to make.Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 20140 -
Lawyers = Trouble
A lot of politicians are lawyers.
Casting the votes is pretty easy. The court system is the disgrace.Be Excellent To Each OtherParty On, Dudes!0 -
that's what I was going to say......all the affluent white dudes in this thread saying "well I've never had a problem"...dignin wrote:cincybearcat wrote:
Doesn't change the fact that there are huge lines of minorities waiting in line to vote for hours.
So is there a campaign of intentional vote suppression and manipulation? Is it more prominent in black and hispanic neighbourhoods? and if so....does that point a finger more at the GOP than the dems? Or is that just something that pesky liberal media wants us to believe?
I follow freelance writer Greg Palast on fb.......he has a new book out called Billionaires and Ballot Bandits.....his status updates for the past few weeks have been about nothing but how fucked the system is: how blatantly the election can and is manipulated.
I won't bother posting all the links....but there are a ton of articles and lots of video footage of poll lineups a thousand long in Florida, five blocks deep in Ohio....articles about voting machine manipulation, last minute poll moves, manipulation of dead-voter purging, etc etc....search his fb page for a look....some pretty topical stuff. The book sounds interesting too.0 -
Not to mention the comment that our leaders "don't go on to become one of (if not the single) most prominent and preeminent human beings on the face of Planet Earth".....because actually they do....(well, I'd argue that no politician is pre-eminent)....but after the POTUS, those leaders are among the most powerful in the world. Even if they weren't, this doesn't have much to do with the topic, so it seems like a bit of an out of place reminder of america's position as top dog....Hugh Freaking Dillon wrote:PJFAN13 wrote:I honestly am not suggesting superiority on the US part. I am sorry if that is how it is coming across, honestly. Wow. Plus the main point of Mr. Frum's article is, and I quote: Politicians of one party do not set voting schedules to favor their side and harm the other. Politicians do not move around voting places to gain advantages for themselves or to disadvantage their opponents. In fact, in almost no other country do politicians have any say in the administration of elections at all.
It is broken. It is screwy. We need a fix. My point comparing the other countries isn't USA is better, its just nobody I've ever talked to, worked with, conversed with is rushing to those countries because their voting methods are so superior. Again, sorry it isn't clear.
This is not an "us vs them" thing. I'm not being antagonistic. Please...calm down. Really. The US system is flawed.
happy election day
even if your point was to say that people aren't emigrating out of america because Canada's/Germany's/Britain's voting system is so superior, that's kind of a bizarre point to make.
Honestly PJFAN, it doesn't sound like you had any ill intent with your comments....but people who believe in american exceptionalism use these same arguments (numbers 1 and 2)for a lot of different issues, so it rubs some of us non-americans the wrong way (sometimes in a bit of a knee-jerk)....0 -
Drowned Out wrote:that's what I was going to say......all the affluent white dudes in this thread saying "well I've never had a problem"...
So is there a campaign of intentional vote suppression and manipulation? Is it more prominent in black and hispanic neighbourhoods? and if so....does that point a finger more at the GOP than the dems? Or is that just something that pesky liberal media wants us to believe?
I follow freelance writer Greg Palast on fb.......he has a new book out called Billionaires and Ballot Bandits.....his status updates for the past few weeks have been about nothing but how fucked the system is: how blatantly the election can and is manipulated.
I won't bother posting all the links....but there are a ton of articles and lots of video footage of poll lineups a thousand long in Florida, five blocks deep in Ohio....articles about voting machine manipulation, last minute poll moves, manipulation of dead-voter purging, etc etc....search his fb page for a look....some pretty topical stuff. The book sounds interesting too.
Thanks, I will check that out.0 -
YEP OBAMA STOLE ELECTION.....FRAUD is what did it!Theres no time like the present
A man that stands for nothing....will fall for anything!
All people need to do more on every level!0 -
Is it true last Election more people voted for American Idol (have to pay), than for a President?0
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belinda27 wrote:Is it true last Election more people voted for American Idol (have to pay), than for a President?
http://voices.yahoo.com/american-idol-v ... 96529.html0 -
Not quite a disgrace now is it.
Compared with other countries out there in the world ....
Your voting system is just fine. You have one. Win.Sometimes I speak of nothing at all.0
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