Joseph Stiglitz: 'The American Dream Has Become A Myth'

whygohome

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/0 ... 35564.html
(be sure to check out the charts)

I'm not saying that I wholly agree with Stiglitz, but I am interested in the discussion that will follow.

Joseph Stiglitz: 'The American Dream Has Become A Myth'

Rising from rags to riches isn't the American dream, it's an American fairytale, according to Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz.

"The American dream has become a myth," Stiglitz, an economics professor at Columbia University, told the German news magazine Der Spiegel in an interview published Tuesday. "The belief in the American dream is not supported by the data."

There's evidence to support such claims. The U.S. has less economic mobility than Canada and much of Western Europe, according to economic research cited by The New York Times. Seven in ten Americans that start out in the bottom fifth of family income stay in the lower class as adults, and more than six in ten Americans that start out in the top family income quintile stay in the upper class as adults, according to a July report by the Pew Charitable Trusts.

While the data may not be there to back the idea of the American dream, there are some that still consider it to be pretty important. Republican vice presidential nominee Paul Ryan, for his part, said last year that "70 percent of Americans want the American dream. They believe in the American idea. Only 30 percent want the welfare state."

Stiglitz told Der Spiegel that in spite of anecdotes about poor people becoming rich, overall "the life chances of a young U.S. citizen are more dependent on the income and education of his parents than in any other advanced industrial country for which there is data."

http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2012/10/03-1

In an interview published Tuesday with German newspaper DER SPIEGEL, noted Columbia University economist and 2001 Nobel Prize winner Joseph Stiglitz says that "the American dream has become a myth" and calls Gov. Romney "emblematic of the top one percent."

Stiglitz highlights the inequality in the U.S. that has grown "dramatically" as wealth is concentrated in the upper echelon because the "marvelous economic machine" in the U.S. reinforces the division. This division is seen in comments like those by Romney disparaging 47% of Americans that show the total disconnect those at the top have with everyone else, according to Stiglitz.

It is "anecdotes" that keep the myth of the American dream alive, says Stiglitz. Yet this dream "is not supported by the data."

Stiglitz slams those who "in the financial sector [who] got rich by economic manipulation and by deceptive" practices, taking advantage of and profiting off predatory systems. Asked by DER SPIEGEL why the government didn't stop these practices, Stiglitz says it's because the financial elite "buy the rules that allow them to make the money."

Stiglitz also addresses what he feels is needed to get out of financial crisis, both in the U.S. and the EU.

A growth strategy is needed, and he says it would be "stupid" for the U.S. not to invest in the future: "We need a growth strategy to stimulate the economy. We haven't invested enough for 30 years -- in infrastructure, technology, education." The austerity path the EU has chosen is destined to fail. It is "absolutely essential" to to switch from austerity to investments, according to Stiglitz, who says that "no eonomy has ever recovered from a downturn through austerity."

Stiglitz says that government spending, not cuts, is necessary to create jobs. While DER SPIEGEL says that this investment can lead to "questionable" return, Stiglitz says that even in less than ideal outcomes the amount pales in comparison to the billions spent bailing out the banks.

aerial

Mitt's Plan

http://debates.mittromney.com/real-recovery


Nobel Prize has no prestige anymore.

fear4freedom

there is no other country that can do what we do, exporting culture and freedom like we do, sharing love and charity like we do, helping weak nations like we do, providing hope and prosperity like we do!

So you tell me, what nation would you think this world should be modeled after?

catefrances

fear4freedom wrote:

there is no other country that can do what we do, exporting culture and freedom like we do, sharing love and charity like we do, helping weak nations like we do, providing hope and prosperity like we do!

So you tell me, what nation would you think this world should be modeled after?

australia.


you say exporting culture like thats a good thing and exporting freedom like thats a real thing. as for sharing love and charity.. holy fuckballs do you read history?

now dont get me wrong some of my favourite writers, artists, thinkers, movie makers and musicians are american but the US also exports a very high volume of crapola... so when you say like we do dont expect it to mean the same to us as it means to you.

Moonpig

fear4freedom wrote:

there is no other country that can do what we do, exporting culture and freedom like we do, sharing love and charity like we do, helping weak nations like we do, providing hope and prosperity like we do!

So you tell me, what nation would you think this world should be modeled after?

You can't really believe that. LOL, exporting culture, on the back of an armament payload.

I think you'll find, America has done a lot to suppress the freedom of many nations. Please tell me this isn't news, surely they teach you world history, and not just your own nation's, in school.

I've heard this a few times - exporting culture - can you pls explain to me what your definition of exporting culture is??

Byrnzie

fear4freedom wrote:

there is no other country that can do what we do, exporting culture and freedom like we do, sharing love and charity like we do, helping weak nations like we do, providing hope and prosperity like we do!

You don't export culture, you export products, such as hamburgers, and cruise missiles. As for freedom, please provide one example of where the U.S has exported freedom. Just one. Thanks.

Sharing love and charity...helping weak nations? WTF? Tell that to the people of Chile, El salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Panama, and Vietnam. Tell it to the Iraqi's and Afghans. They'd laugh in your face.

fear4freedom wrote:

So you tell me, what nation would you think this world should be modeled after?

One that doesn't murder it's own citizens in the name of justice, and one who's biggest export isn't war, and weapons of mass destruction.

Byrnzie

Morrissey - America is not the world
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QON6SSMLcC8

whygohome

fear4freedom wrote:

there is no other country that can do what we do, exporting culture and freedom like we do, sharing love and charity like we do, helping weak nations like we do, providing hope and prosperity like we do!

So you tell me, what nation would you think this world should be modeled after?

These statements are everything that is wrong with America.
I wonder if he has ever stepped foot outside of this country....outside of his own zip code

Wow. Just a sick joke.

Jason P

Byrnzie wrote:

You don't export culture, you export products, such as hamburgers, and cruise missiles. As for freedom, please provide one example of where the U.S has exported freedom. Just one. Thanks.

east germany.

there are more, but that is a start.

whygohome

Jason P wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

You don't export culture, you export products, such as hamburgers, and cruise missiles. As for freedom, please provide one example of where the U.S has exported freedom. Just one. Thanks.

east germany.

there are more, but that is a start.

My girlfriend's family despises this myth. But, what do they know, they're only German.

This is an America-centric fallacy

Jason P

France

Jason P

South Korea

whygohome

Jason P wrote:

France

"World" War

whygohome

Jason P wrote:

South Korea

"On June 25, 1950, North Korean forces invaded South Korea. Led by the U.S., a 16-member coalition undertook the first collective action under the United Nations Command (UNC)."

http://www.usfk.mil/usfk/content.united ... command.68


**this is fun

FattyFatCat

catefrances wrote:

fear4freedom wrote:

there is no other country that can do what we do, exporting culture and freedom like we do, sharing love and charity like we do, helping weak nations like we do, providing hope and prosperity like we do!

So you tell me, what nation would you think this world should be modeled after?

australia.


you say exporting culture like thats a good thing and exporting freedom like thats a real thing. as for sharing love and charity.. holy fuckballs do you read history?

now dont get me wrong some of my favourite writers, artists, thinkers, movie makers and musicians are american but the US also exports a very high volume of crapola... so when you say like we do dont expect it to mean the same to us as it means to you.

Ive read some history... I learned that modern day Australia began as a penal colony for the Brits, and that some Australian women cuss like sailors as a result. And then there's the aboriginy thing... yikes.

Cant speak for anyone but myself, but when I say "like we do", the last thing Im thinking about is what some Australian will think.

Stiglitz seems to be capatalizing on a popular theme lately- the "post-American world".

Jason P

whygohome wrote:

Jason P wrote:

South Korea

"On June 25, 1950, North Korean forces invaded South Korea. Led by the U.S., a 16-member coalition undertook the first collective action under the United Nations Command (UNC)."

http://www.usfk.mil/usfk/content.united ... command.68


**this is fun

?

With this logic, I guess the US can wash their hands of the current war.

This is fun.

fife

fear4freedom wrote:

there is no other country that can do what we do, exporting culture and freedom like we do, sharing love and charity like we do, helping weak nations like we do, providing hope and prosperity like we do!

So you tell me, what nation would you think this world should be modeled after?

do you mind giving more details around this statement.

also, i don't think the author is saying that the USA has to model itself after another country but i do believe that the usa can learn from many different countries just like other countries can learn some things from the USA.

Jason P

whygohome wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Byrnzie wrote:

You don't export culture, you export products, such as hamburgers, and cruise missiles. As for freedom, please provide one example of where the U.S has exported freedom. Just one. Thanks.

east germany.

there are more, but that is a start.

My girlfriend's family despises this myth. But, what do they know, they're only German.

This is an America-centric fallacy

Myth?

The collapse of the Soviet Union and the Iron Curtain wasn't influenced by the US? Western Europe wasn't protected for 40 years from Soviet aggression?

I like how the US is 100% at fault for ruining Chile, El salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Panama with a shadow black-ops program, but doesn't getting any credit on the backside. And since the folly of the Vietnam war, Vietnam has become an important economic ally of the US and is seeing a resurgence in their economy.

riotgrl

whygohome wrote:

Jason P wrote:

France

"World" War

France has been a republic since 1870. And during WWII, the Vichy Government was more or less controlled by the Germans. It was not recognized by most other nations as the legitimate government of France - that would be the Provisional republic led by de Gaulle. So no, America did not bring democracy to France. And if you mean the French Revolution, then I would think America would only get credit in terms of ideology; although, that could be argued, as Enlightenment ideals that were not strictly American but were a compilation of philosophical ideals, many of which originated from French philosophers.

whygohome

Jason P wrote:

Myth?

The collapse of the Soviet Union and the Iron Curtain wasn't influenced by the US? Western Europe wasn't protected for 40 years from Soviet aggression?

I like how the US is 100% at fault for ruining Chile, El salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Panama with a shadow black-ops program, but doesn't getting any credit on the backside. And since the folly of the Vietnam war, Vietnam has become an important economic ally of the US and is seeing a resurgence in their economy.

All I said was that it was not the U.S. who was solely responsible; and, I offered a different perspective on it----actual Germans.

Jason P

whygohome wrote:

Jason P wrote:

Myth?

The collapse of the Soviet Union and the Iron Curtain wasn't influenced by the US? Western Europe wasn't protected for 40 years from Soviet aggression?

I like how the US is 100% at fault for ruining Chile, El salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Panama with a shadow black-ops program, but doesn't getting any credit on the backside. And since the folly of the Vietnam war, Vietnam has become an important economic ally of the US and is seeing a resurgence in their economy.

All I said was that it was not the U.S. who was solely responsible; and, I offered a different perspective on it----actual Germans.

The real collapse was just waiting out the communist philosophy to self-implode. Even in Vietnam, within 20 years the communist government collapsed and capitalism took hold. We never needed to send any troops to get what we were supposedly fighting for. Just needed father time.