OBAMA INCREASES DRILLS with Muslim Brotherhood

fuck

Godfather. wrote:

Moonpig wrote:

aerial wrote:

OBAMA CURBS MILITARY DRILLS WITH ISRAEL, INCREASES DRILLS with Muslim Brotherhood

http://warnewsupdates.blogspot.com/2012/09/us-and-egypt-to-conduct-military-drills.html


US, Egypt Conducting Joint Military Exercises -- Arutz Sheva

U.S. planes landed in Egypt Tuesday for a joint exercise, the first since the fall of Hosni Mubarak.

Just days after a report that the U.S. was sharply cutting its participation in a military exercise scheduled with Israel, U.S. planes landed in Egypt Tuesday for a joint exercise, the first since the fall of Hosni Mubarak. Code-named “Eagle Arena 2012,” the exercise will include air and naval forays by US and Egyptian planes and boats, over the country, Sinai, and the Red Sea.

Should we be allies with any Muslim Brotherhood entities?

What's wrong with the Muslim Brotherhood?

Actually, for that matter, what's wrong with Muslims?

:shock:
Lord I miss Frank,Dino,Sammy and Joey....and Mayday Malone
if she has said Bush insted of Obama this place would come alive with hell yeahs. :?

Godfather.

Why? You can't defend anything yourself, so you need some gang who doesn't know anything they're talking about to sit here and talk about the big bad scary Muslim Brotherhood, without providing any facts whatsoever? Yeah, it's much easier to hate on something when you have a group of people doing it, regardless of whether there is any factual basis or not.

And what are you even talking about? if she had said Bush instead of Obama? What kind of hypothetical is that? Bush working with the democratically elected Egyptian government after the toppling of the U.S. puppet dictator? Nothing in that hypothetical even makes sense.

let's stop talking partisan politics, and start talking facts here, yeah?

Jason P

Moonpig wrote:

What's wrong with the Muslim Brotherhood?

Actually, for that matter, what's wrong with Muslims?

Nothing is wrong with being Muslim.

However, a political group that is heavily influenced by religion and incorporates religion into their policies is not a good thing. I figure a lot of the posters here would be denouncing this political group based on comments regarding the GOP. :geek:

Godfather.

defend myself.....
please....muslim brother'hood ?

Godfather.

fuck

Jason P wrote:

a political group that is heavily influenced by religion and incorporates religion into their policies is not a good thing. I figure a lot of the posters here would be denouncing this political group based on comments regarding the GOP. :geek:

A group that does that in the U.S., where the 'separation of church and state' is enshrined in its basic principles for the framework of the constitution, should be denounced.

But in a FOREIGN country where the OVERWHELMING majority (near 80% according to Gallup polls) wants some incorporation of the Shari`ah in its framework, who are we as a separate nation to argue otherwise? Should we then cut off all cooperation with this country, military or otherwise even if it would be to our mutual benefit, because we disagree with how they choose to govern themselves? It clearly does not stop us working with the Saudis, who actually have a history of human rights violations, and Obama did a $60billion military deal with them, let alone the Bush cooperation with them. Ah yes, but that is to "balance Iran" so that's ok, right? (that question is not directed at you.) And finally, who are we to claim we understand the intricacies of governing with an Islamic reference? The Western experience of the Church is not anywhere close to the Islamic experience, and the recent cases of Iran and Saudi Arabia are not examples to be held in high regard when opposing an 'Islamist' government. So why do we claim such deep knowledge about this when opposing it? And if we don't claim deep knowledge, then how can we justify truly opposing it?

fuck

Godfather. wrote:

defend myself.....
please....muslim brother'hood ?

Godfather.

Using facts and reason in a political debate... why do that when we have emoticons?

Godfather.

fuck wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

defend myself.....
please....muslim brother'hood ?

Godfather.

Using facts and reason in a political debate... why do that when we have emoticons?

not too many "fact's" are used on the train, mostly opinion and news articals but I was just thinking,do you know who Frank,Dino,Sammy and Joey are ? maybe not because if you did I doubt you would have replyed with
"why can't you defend yourself" and I said Mayday Malone because he always got you guys's pantys wadded up
and it was fun to read.

Godfather.

fuck

Godfather. wrote:

fuck wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

defend myself.....
please....muslim brother'hood ?

Godfather.

Using facts and reason in a political debate... why do that when we have emoticons?

not too many "fact's" are used on the train, mostly opinion and news articals but I was just thinking,do you know who Frank,Dino,Sammy and Joey are ? maybe not because if you did I doubt you would have replyed with
"why can't you defend yourself" and I said Mayday Malone because he always got you guys's pantys wadded up
and it was fun to read.

Godfather.

Do you have something meaningful to contribute to this discussion or do you just insist on derailing it?

Godfather.

fuck you and the muslim brother'hood thing are not really putting anything down that is fact based..just your opinion right ? so why don't you and moonpig give us some "facts" that show a positive impact on America from the muslim brother'hood.

Godfather.

fuck

Godfather. wrote:

fuck you and the muslim brother'hood thing are not really putting anything down that is fact based..just your opinion right ? so why don't you and moonpig give us some "facts" that show a positive impact on America from the muslim brother'hood.

Godfather.

I see what you did there.

Anyway, what are you talking about? I'm not convinced you really know the difference between fact and opinion. I have written many facts in the previous posts in this thread about why the Muslim Brotherhood is far more complicated than this thread assumes it to be, and some questions I was hoping to further the discussion with. On the other hand, you have yet to present any reasons why the MB is something to fear, or any thing to further the discussion at all.

Godfather.

fuck wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

fuck you and the muslim brother'hood thing are not really putting anything down that is fact based..just your opinion right ? so why don't you and moonpig give us some "facts" that show a positive impact on America from the muslim brother'hood.

Godfather.

I see what you did there.

Anyway, what are you talking about? I'm not convinced you really know the difference between fact and opinion. I have written many facts in the previous posts in this thread about why the Muslim Brotherhood is far more complicated than this thread assumes it to be, and some questions I was hoping to further the discussion with. On the other hand, you have yet to present any reasons why the MB is something to fear, or any thing to further the discussion at all.

what ? but anyway here we go man I'll start.

Godfather.

•With the popular uprising in Egypt, much public attention has been given to the Muslim Brotherhood (MB), Egypt’s oldest and best organized opposition party. Founded in 1928 by a schoolteacher named Hassan al Banna, the MB is dedicated to imposing Sharia law and reestablishing an Islamic caliphate throughout the Muslim world. Since its inception nearly a century ago, the MB’s creed has been encapsulated in six succinct phrases:
•Allah is our goal. The Prophet is our leader. The Quran is our constitution. Jihad is our way. Death in the service of Allah is the loftiest of our wishes. Allah is great, Allah is great.
•This remains the MB’s creed to this day. Despite the organization’s overt Islamist beliefs and endorsement of violence (jihad), however, some misconceptions about the MB have grown in the West. Namely, some believe that the MB (1) has renounced violence, (2) is opposed to al Qaeda, and (3) is pro-democracy. All three propositions are demonstrably false.
•The purpose of this memo is to summarize just some of the evidence that demonstrates the fallacy of these three arguments.
•Like most human endeavors, the MB is not a monolith. There is dissent and disagreement within the organization. Still, the overarching direction of the MB is clear. The evidence cited in this memo draws largely from the words of the Egyptian MB’s leadership, beginning with al Banna and continuing with the group’s current leaders. In particular, this memo cites the opinions of three of the MB’s recent supreme guides (the group’s top leadership position): Mustafa Mashhur (1996 – 2002), Muhammad Mahdi ‘Akef (2004 – 2010), and Muhammad Badi' (2010 – present). This analysis also draws from a wealth of other evidence, including the words of renowned MB cleric Sheikh Yousef al Qaradawi, who has an international following and is one of the most influential Muslim clerics in the world.
•The conclusions reached in this memo are as follows:
•The MB has not renounced violence. Hassan al Banna made violent jihad a cornerstone of his Brotherhood, embracing what he called “the art of death.” In Section II below, we will briefly review al Banna’s jihadist philosophy, which helped spawn the martyrdom cult that engulfed the world in violence beginning in the latter half of the 20th century. The MB’s most recent leaders have all openly embraced al Banna’s violent vision. Given the enduring relevance of al Banna’s works, it is not surprising to find that the MB endorses violence in the Palestinian-controlled territories and in Israel, as well as against American-led forces in Iraq and Afghanistan. Hamas, a self-described branch of the Muslim Brotherhood, is one of the premier terrorist organizations on the planet and an innovator in the use of suicide bombings. Egyptian MB leaders routinely praise Hamas and lend the group, at a minimum, rhetorical support during times of crisis. The MB uses non-violent means inside Egypt only because decades of suppression have necessitated it and not because the group believes violence is objectionable.
•The MB is not al Qaeda’s enemy. At most, the MB and al Qaeda are rivals vying for control of an imagined future dominated by the same core ideology. The MB and al Qaeda have much in common, including their approval of “martyrdom” (suicide) operations.

Moonpig

Godfather. wrote:

fuck you and the muslim brother'hood thing are not really putting anything down that is fact based..just your opinion right ? so why don't you and moonpig give us some "facts" that show a positive impact on America from the muslim brother'hood.

Godfather.

Ah here Godfather, I was asking what the problem with the Muslim Brotherhood is, if you didn't know, then you could have just said.

Tell you what, if you're going to get your panties all up in a bunch, best not contribute.

Like really, is this the best response I can expect from asking an honest to god question? Is it any wonder your political parties run the way they do.

Godfather.

Moonpig wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

fuck you and the muslim brother'hood thing are not really putting anything down that is fact based..just your opinion right ? so why don't you and moonpig give us some "facts" that show a positive impact on America from the muslim brother'hood.

Godfather.

Ah here Godfather, I was asking what the problem with the Muslim Brotherhood is, if you didn't know, then you could have just said.

Tell you what, if you're going to get your panties all up in a bunch, best not contribute.

Like really, is this the best response I can expect from asking an honest to god question? Is it any wonder your political parties run the way they do.

dude did you see the post above the one you just posted ? you guy's are asking for reasons and facts but when I ask inturn for the same you both post stuff like your not sure of what you are talking about, I can give more reasons why I believe MB/muslim's are trouble in the US but when asked what poitive influance the MB has in the US you both tell me I have nothing to offer....welll boy's it sounds like the pot is calling the kettle black.

Godfather.

josevolution

Yeah please i need to go and hide the muslims are at it again and pretty soon the brown people to the south of us will be taking all of the jobs so we should kick all the immigrants back to Mexico , give me a brake more of the same fear mongering crap pathetic at best ....

Godfather.

josevolution wrote:

Yeah please i need to go and hide the muslims are at it again and pretty soon the brown people to the south of us will be taking all of the jobs so we should kick all the immigrants back to Mexico , give me a brake more of the same fear mongering crap pathetic at best ....

that's it ? nothing positive to add ?...so typical of you my friend.

Godfather.

josevolution

Godfather. wrote:

josevolution wrote:

Yeah please i need to go and hide the muslims are at it again and pretty soon the brown people to the south of us will be taking all of the jobs so we should kick all the immigrants back to Mexico , give me a brake more of the same fear mongering crap pathetic at best ....

that's it ? nothing positive to add ?...so typical of you my friend.

Godfather.

Positive positive

Godfather.

josevolution wrote:

Godfather. wrote:

josevolution wrote:

Yeah please i need to go and hide the muslims are at it again and pretty soon the brown people to the south of us will be taking all of the jobs so we should kick all the immigrants back to Mexico , give me a brake more of the same fear mongering crap pathetic at best ....

that's it ? nothing positive to add ?...so typical of you my friend.

Godfather.

Positive positive

now we're talking

Godfather.

tybird

Someone google "Operation: Bright Star".......US forces training with the Egyptian military ain't a new thing. :twisted:

aerial

fuck wrote:

aerial wrote:

riotgrl wrote:

So, is this a problem because they are Muslim? Or because this is Obama? Let's apply the same standards to all presidents - if you want to condemn Obama then condemn Reagan as well. Perhaps if more Americans understood their history then they might understand that painting with such a broad stroke can sometimes bite you in the ass. Spend some time really understanding the Reagan Doctrine before you condemn Obama. And just for the record, I am totally opposed to our military being involved in any foreign country at all. We need to shut down all military bases around the world and end all wars.

OMG I see how how hard you people are trying to twist my post into something it is not....you want me to go through history and list everyone I would condemn? Or can we just stay on the current events my post covers?
If it said Obama is training nice Muslims, or just nice people, for war I would say cool, help them learn to defend themselves......... but that is not the Muslim Brotherhoods history is it?

Well, unfortunately for your purposes here, you know nothing about the Muslim Brotherhood's history, and you're talking out of your ass. First of all, the only thing you are able to cite in order to dismiss the Muslim Brotherhood is that, at one point, Osama bin Laden was reported to be a 'member' of it. However, if you knew anything at all about the Muslim Brotherhood, you'd know that it's not some fucking cult organization like Opus Dei where members are initiated and go out and perform duties that represent the organization. Instead, it is a completely decentralized, international 'solidarity' movement. It has no official membership base, no official ideology even to follow it! Some people who call themselves MB can be entirely Salafi, and some can be quite Reformist and progressive. There's also Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, Kuwait, Palestine, Syria, all over the Arab and Muslim world, and they are very different depending on regions, local issues, etc.

What's even more hilarious to me, however, is that this is not even about the Muslim Brotherhood. The article is actually about the Egyptian government. The United States is not sitting here running drills with some militia group, as you are trying to make it seem, but rather an actual government. But because Morsi is MB (and he actually resigned from his official position at the MB, since he was a leader of the group in Egypt), then it's as if there is no government of Egypt that was democratically elected, just a bunch of crazed Islamists taking control of the country.

The issue that bothers me the most is, if your ignorance rested on "Forget foreign countries, let's just stay home and not involve ourselves anywhere," I would not mind at all. I'd say, ok, you have every right to remain ignorant about all these issues you don't care to involve yourself in. But when you have some grandiose idea that there is some great war (military or otherwise) for civilization that rests in helping Israel vs. the crazy Muslims who are trying to destroy everything liberalism has worked so hard to achieve, then you are just talking out of your ass and either need to go open a book, or kindly shut the fuck up.

Did you notice The post was about MB in Egypt? and yes they do have an official ideology. But the main reason I don't agree with there ideology is because they are against gay marriage.

Sea

Thread under review.

Discuss, disagree and debate politely. It's possible to disagree with people without being abusive, and it's a requirement here.

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