Any advice on USB 2.0 interfaces for PC recording?

dougfloyd

Hey guys, my cousin has built a home studio/rehearsal space in his basement and is looking for some advice in purchasing some equipment to start recording demos onto a PC. I'm helping him pick out a new PC and we're researching the audio interfaces/mixers that are available and trying to sort through our options and keep the budget reasonable (hopefully under $1,000 for everything). For simplicity sake, I think we want to go with a USB 2.0 connection instead of firewire or a PCI card device. He'd mostly be recording by himself doing one track at a time but also wants to mic up a drum kit too so he'd want something that can record 4-8 tracks simultaneously.

From what I've read about online so far, I've found a few options that I think would work for him: PreSonus AudioBox 1818VSL, M-Audio Fast Track Ultra 8R, or TASCAM US-2000. I also found an Alesis Multilmix 16 USB 2.0 mixer but found lots of people with issues with them. So far I'm kind of leaning towards the PreSonus Audiobox VSL line from what I've read. Anybody have any advice or heard anything about these devices? Are we going down the right path for an affordable recording setup? Pros/cons of this vs other methods? Appreciate any advice you all might have for us.

Thanks,
Doug

RedMosquito22

I would go this route with a $1000 budget, otherwise you aren't going to get much as far as Pro Tools, etc. Plus with this you gan get a Rode NT1A mic for Vocals. I think this is more bang for the buck and much more user friendly. Plus

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/tascam-dp-24-24-track-digital-portastudio

dougfloyd

RedMosquito22 wrote:

I would go this route with a $1000 budget, otherwise you aren't going to get much as far as Pro Tools, etc. Plus with this you gan get a Rode NT1A mic for Vocals. I think this is more bang for the buck and much more user friendly. Plus

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/tascam-dp-24-24-track-digital-portastudio

Well, he wants to get a computer as part of the setup so he can email/share files (via Dropbox) with a songwriter that he is working with remotely so I don't think this would work in the budget. For software, Pro Tools would be out of reach but most of these come bundled with something, for example the PreSonus comes with their VSL virtual mixer software and Studio One software for recording. The other software option I saw mas Mixcraft which was pretty cheap. I'll see what he thinks about a unit like you mentioned but I'm not sure how he would easily share the output.

chorduroy

I currently use a Presonus Audiobox USB but it's the smaller version and has only 2 inputs which is perfect for what I do (layered guitars and vocals in my basement). I actually bought it brand new on Ebay for $149 and it came bundled with Presonus Studio One software and a basic mic (which I need to upgrade). Studio One is very user friendly and comes packaged with all sorts of drum loops, guitar effects, also Guitar Rig 3 LE software as an add on. I'd recommend it. The actual interface is the least of your concerns though, you'll need some good mics and they'll need to be well placed in a sound tight room. Im no expert but Im sure most people will tell you to spend most of your budget on good mics and computer versus the actual interface.
Forum username McCready is God is your man for anything studio/recording related. Maybe he'll chime in here

dougfloyd

chorduroy wrote:

I currently use a Presonus Audiobox USB but it's the smaller version and has only 2 inputs which is perfect for what I do (layered guitars and vocals in my basement). I actually bought it brand new on Ebay for $149 and it came bundled with Presonus Studio One software and a basic mic (which I need to upgrade). Studio One is very user friendly and comes packaged with all sorts of drum loops, guitar effects, also Guitar Rig 3 LE software as an add on. I'd recommend it. The actual interface is the least of your concerns though, you'll need some good mics and they'll need to be well placed in a sound tight room. Im no expert but Im sure most people will tell you to spend most of your budget on good mics and computer versus the actual interface.
Forum username McCready is God is your man for anything studio/recording related. Maybe he'll chime in here

Thanks. I've watched some youtube videos of the Presonus stuff yesterday and Studio One looks pretty easy to use. My cousin already has pretty much everything else he would need, he and his dad & brother and friends have been into music for years and years but he's just not computer savvy so he asked for some help on that side.

mccreadyisgod

You're going to want to focus on two things:

1) Get an interface with the best-quality and highest-featured preamps possible. At this price level, there isn't a whole lot of difference in AD/DA conversion. Software becomes something of an issue, since you want software that is stable and easy to use. I'm not that familiar with the proprietary software that comes with many of these systems, so I'm not much help there. But I can tell you to get good preamps. Switchable 48v phantom power and a pad are a big deal, phase switch would be nice. From the models you mentioned, I would trend toward the Presonus, as their preamps sound pretty good.

2) Get the best computer you can afford. Dual-core processor, highest front-side buss, at least 6 GB of RAM (I'd get 8 if you can). If you are getting a tower, I would definitely add a second hard drive for recording, and use the primary drive for software/OS. You could also use a firewire external drive for recording, if you end up with a laptop. Pay attention to how loud the fans are, since they can become pretty obvious on some tracks. It sucks to put your computer 20 feet from where your mics are to avoid fan noise bleed. If you have the ability to isolate the computer from the mics, that can help. I'd also get something with Windows 7 (you don't have the money for a Mac) rather than waiting for Windows 8, since all the software bugs for 7 have been worked out at this point (OS as well as the recording software). You'll get a lot more bang for your buck by going desktop tower, rather than laptop.

Besides those things, there are a million little factors. Don't forget about buying cables and mic stands and mics, which can add up to pretty impressive prices by themselves. You can get pretty decent mics for under $200 these days, but to record a drum kit you would need three or four decent mics (kick drum, snare, and stereo overheads). You might have access to some of these mics without buying out of your budget, but I don't know what your situation is. You'll need good isolating headphones, and if you have more than one person recording, you'll need a headphone amp (not a bad idea by itself). Also some decent speakers for playback and mixing (don't ever mix on headphones!). You don't need a great room for demos, but having a room sound good enough means having carpet on the floor, some curtains or foam on the walls, and no weird resonance from things like heat ducts.

DriftingByTheStorm

I have found computer recording to be pretty tedious without an actual hardware mixer console.
I think that is what RedMosquito22 was trying to get at with the Tascam link posted.

You can certainly adjust levels and all that stuff from a computer,
but the realities of recording don't necessarily work that great with an on screen mixer.

Punch ins \ punchouts, realtime fades, simple things like adjusting the input levels, etc ... are all much more seamlessly accomplished if your "audio interface" is *also* your mixing board.

Something like this:
Behringer BCF2000 MIDI Controller with Faders for a measly $250 should get you the inputs you need, as well as automated\motorized faders, and hardware input volume adjusts.

Tascam *used* to make some freaking awesome mixers with motorzied faders for under $1000, but they seem to have discontinued this approach. :(
(the Tascam 1082 was *awesome* although it had some bad software interface problems)

For about a $1000, even:
Mackie Control Universal Pro 8-Channel Master Controller with USB

QUESTON:
For $1000,
WHAT are you trying to purchase?
Just the interface \ recording device itself?
Or are you also hoping, for $1000, to include mics, mic stands, cables, studio monitors, more cables, software, etc?

PS - I ditched other paid recording software and recently started using the free version of REAPER, which i think is freaking awesome ... for the price.

PPS - McreadyIsGod beat me to it ... WHATEVER HE SAYS GOES.

DriftingByTheStorm

PS -- i think both of us forgot (i dunno, i just skimmed MiGs post) that if you are doing real time recording & monitoring you will also need a place to plug in HEADPHONES. Either to the board\mixer\audio-interface itself, or to a dedicated headphone preamp (say you have two or three guys jamming out, and some tracks already laid down ... you would need 2 or 3 headphone jacks for them to monitor the pre-recorded parts) ...

just a reminder.

pppppps - lol. saw the bottom of MiGs post.
Nope. He didn't forget nothin!



ppppppppppppps - i'd go farther than MiG and say i specifically discourage you from getting a laptop for recording. I just don't think they are "there" yet. Unless you got $5000 or somethin. lol. And i'd probably opt for WINDOWS XP and not 7, but maybe i'm behind the times. AND ... TIGERDIRECT (especially the REFURBISHED section) IS YOUR FRIEND!

googleps -
uh. i have a desktop with, i think, FIVE OR SIX FANS, and they are NOT quiet by any stretch of the term ... and I ... even when recording FIVE FEET from it have not had problems when using directional microphones for recording. Maybe MiG will say i have shitty mics or shitty preamps ... but i dunno ... even with levels pretty freakin high ... i have heard clarity in all sorts of things (including dogs shaking tags in the background) but NEVER have i heard it pic up the computer fans (which are typically somewhere near 180 degrees from the front of the microphone)

DriftingByTheStorm

Digidesigns 003 Console $925 on Ebay (no software, ie. protools) ... but HALF PRICE on a $2000 machine.

I can't tell you how AWESOME motorized faders are for computerized recording.

Every time you pull up a different song file, the console automatically adjusts the faders to the appropriate position you last set for that song. Super fucking helpful.

dougfloyd

Thank you guys for all the info, very helpful! I'm going to try to go down to his house next weekend and go over what I've found and pick stuff out. For clarification, i was thinking the $1,000 budget just for a PC and an interface, he's already got pretty much everything else he would need and the basement has already been converted into a band rehearsal space.

I work in IT so I think I've got the computer end covered for him, my advice would be to use a desktop vs laptop too. I have a decent system picked out for him on Dell's website and I've got some Dell gift cards I can use. Still leaning towards the Presonus Audiobox 1818vsl if it were me but it will be his decision so I'll show him all the stuff you guys told me about.

Thanks again for all the input!

DriftingByTheStorm

dougfloyd wrote:

Thank you guys for all the info, very helpful! I'm going to try to go down to his house next weekend and go over what I've found and pick stuff out. For clarification, i was thinking the $1,000 budget just for a PC and an interface, he's already got pretty much everything else he would need and the basement has already been converted into a band rehearsal space.

I work in IT so I think I've got the computer end covered for him, my advice would be to use a desktop vs laptop too. I have a decent system picked out for him on Dell's website and I've got some Dell gift cards I can use. Still leaning towards the Presonus Audiobox 1818vsl if it were me but it will be his decision so I'll show him all the stuff you guys told me about.

Thanks again for all the input!

I know MiG said 6-8gigs of memory, but, now granted, i wasn't using VSTs or a whole lot of complicated at-once processing (typically running a "standard" "band", some guitar, bass, drums, maybe a synth) ... but i got away (with no crashes) using my Tascam 1084 DAW, and a computer with the following specs:
AMD Phenom 9500 - 64bit - 2.2ghz Quad-Core processor
3gb DDR2
500gb hd
ADI Raedon HD2400Pro Graphics

IMHO, i think the processor (getting a DUO or a Quad) is probably imminently more important than the number of gigs of memory you have (i swear I've never seen a computer register more than a gig of memory used at any one time ??? but i *frequently* see them well over 70% CPU useage) ...

ANYWHO ...
I'm not sure what Dell is up to these days, but from my experience Dell = $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
And LOOK AT TIGERDIRECT factory recertified:
Asus Essentio CG5270-BP003 Refurbished Desktop PC - Intel Core 2 Quad Q8300 2.5GHz, 8GB DDR2, 750GB HDD, NVIDIA GeForce GT220, DVDRW, Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit THREE HUNDRED SEVENTY NINE DOLLARS

Will Dell get you a 2.5ghz QUAD core, and EIGHT GGB DDR2 WITH a fx card pushing over a half ghz dedicated fx processing for under $400 ???

SAVE YOUR MONEY, BUY A GOOD COMPUTER WITH SLOTS TO UPGRADE MEM IF YOU WANT THE OPTION & ***PUT IT TOWARDS A GOOD DAW CONSOLE!!!!!!!!!!!!***

I am ***TELLING*** you ... computer based recording with out a PHYSICAL mixing board is a PAIN IN THE ASS, NOT FUN, and imho, makes recording a CHORE.

But I'm just some shmoe.


PS - and for the LOVE OF GOD, if you DO choose "Dell", do NOT piss money down the drain on a fucking "Alienware" POS!

DriftingByTheStorm

PPS - I don't doubt the quality of PreSonus (i have one of their headphone preamps), but that rack has a bunch of hokey (delay, reverb, and that "Fat sounds" hooey) listed as primary "features" of the equipment.

You can get all of this, usually for FREE, just by searching "FREE VST PLUG INS" ... there are plenty of great quality VST effects out there for FREE. You don't need to pay for hardware that includes proprietary bundled software that people out in the real world have already encoded and uploaded for your FREE use.

Just sayin'.

Do either of you have ANY experience doing ON SCREEN mixing? Ugh!

mccreadyisgod

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Do either of you have ANY experience doing ON SCREEN mixing? Ugh!

I started out on a DigiDesign 001 rack, and then moved on to the 002 rack. Neither of those had a control surface, so I didn't have any faders besides soft faders. I found I would rough-in my mixes with the soft faders, and then switch to automation for dialing in the final levels. I can't say it's been a problem for me, like it has for you. Faders are awesome, but I dunno if I would break my bank to get one... as always, YMMV.

DriftingByTheStorm

mccreadyisgod wrote:

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Do either of you have ANY experience doing ON SCREEN mixing? Ugh!

I started out on a DigiDesign 001 rack, and then moved on to the 002 rack. Neither of those had a control surface, so I didn't have any faders besides soft faders. I found I would rough-in my mixes with the soft faders, and then switch to automation for dialing in the final levels. I can't say it's been a problem for me, like it has for you. Faders are awesome, but I dunno if I would break my bank to get one... as always, YMMV.

lol.
i wouldn't say it was a "problem" for me, but i would say this:
it is pretty clear to me that you are a much better musician than me (not placating here) ... and, where you probably have, at least, not the hardest time in the world simply translating the musical ideas in your head in to concrete form, that, for me, IS a problem.

Given that i already have trouble simply expressing my musical ideas, i do NOT need further complication in getting them down.

Obviously it isn't a "problem" for plenty of people, because there are plenty of DAW interfaces that completely lack any sort of control surface ...

however, from my experience, recording with out physical faders, punch buttons, forward\rewind, etc is just one further complication in a process that is already "foreign" to me.

That being said, if you don't think you need a hard control surface, have at it!
It is somewhat sad (to me) that the price of DAW control surfaces seems to have gone UP significantly since the mid 2000's. I think i paid like $800 for that Tascam 1082, and there is NOTHING comparable for that price anymore. Okay, you can get that Mackie for a cool grand, but not sure it has ALL the same features. (and that $250 behringer i linked apparently doesn't have preamps\phantom) ...

i guess it all comes down to what you are comfortable with.