Reagan's Inherited Mess vs. Obama's Inherited Mess
whygohome
Posts: 2,305
Very different circumstances (apples and oranges if you ask me) but let's have at it anyway!!!
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/2 ... an-You-Did
Sorry President Obama, "Ronald Reagan Inherited a Much Worse Mess Than You Did".
Gov. Mitch Daniels, who continues to attract GOP VP speculation, appeared on Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace. He was asked, very bluntly by Wallace, (except of course he frames it as 'the Obama argument') how going back to George Bush's trickle down, tax cuts for the rich policies could result in anything but more of the same, i.e. really bad news.
The answer is hardly surprising coming from a Republican. Sure, President Obama got a pretty raw deal but you know who had a worse mess when they entered office? If you guessed Ronald Reagan, you would be right of course.
The all purpose answer to anything and everything GOP. Ronald Reagan!
From the interview on Fox News Sunday with Gov. Mitch Daniels:
WALLACE: Well, let me pick up on that, though. What about the Obama argument that he inherited a mess from George W. Bush, and that if Romney gets in to office and enacts the policies he's espousing, that he will simply return us to that mess?
Governor Romney has endorsed Paul Ryan's budget. In principle, Ryan cuts tax rates for the rich without specifying which loopholes he would close. Ryan cuts nondefense discretionary spending by 19 percent in 2014, which the Obama campaign says would mean major cuts in Head Start, medical research and healthcare for the poor.
So, how about the Obama argument, what Romney will do is give tax cuts to the rich and spending cuts to the poor and the middle class?
DANIELS: First of all, the president did inherit a mess but it's not the first time it's ever happened. He's done less with the mess than anyone else ever did. Ronald Reagan inherited a bigger one and had a roaring economy already by this stage.
Whoa, let's stop right there. What a full of fail, full of lies package in two little sentences. It's not the 'first time' it's ever happened. True. There was that Great Depression thing. Which was created under a Republican administration and the country crawled out of with a Democratic president. So it's only been about 70 years or so since it happened before.
Ronald Reagan inherited a 'bigger mess'? Really? That's the new GOP talking point? Even if that were remotely true, that hardly discounts everything President Obama has done to get the economy going. Not to mention against historic intransigence from the opposition party. And the economy was 'roaring three years into his presidency?
How bad was the recession Reagan inherited?
The early 1980s recession was a severe recession in the United States which began in July 1981 and ended in November 1982
It didn't start until months into Reagan's first term.
According to Bloomberg News, who know a thing or two about the economy, the recession of 2009 is the worst on record since WWII.
Aug. 1 (Bloomberg) -- The first 12 months of the U.S. recession saw the economy shrink more than twice as much as previously estimated, reflecting even bigger declines in consumer spending and housing, revised figures showed.
The world’s largest economy contracted 1.9 percent from the fourth quarter of 2007 to the last three months of 2008, compared with the 0.8 percent drop previously on the books, the Commerce Department said yesterday in Washington. Gross domestic product has shrunk 3.9 percent in the past year, the report said, indicating the worst slump since the Great Depression.
“The current downturn beginning in 2008 is more pronounced,” Steven Landefeld, director of the Commerce Department’s Bureau of Economic Analysis, said in a press briefing this week. The revisions were in line with past experience in which initial figures tended to underestimate the severity of contractions during their early stages, he said.
And what about those terrible unemployment rates Reagan inherited, and how the economy was 'roaring' by year three. What was the unemployment rate when Reagan took office in January 1981? It was 7.5 percent. During the course of his first term the unemployment rate continued to climb, to double digits - 10.4 in January 1984. And by the end of his first term, December 1984, he had gotten it back down - all the way 7.3%, where he essentially started.
And Daniels continues on with his lies:
This is the weakest recovery, at least in the post-war period, if not ever, given the depth of the recession that we were in. With regard to how we get out of it, you can start by saying we couldn't do worse than the policy mix of this president -- gigantic new spending, gigantic new taxes, a takeover of 18 percent or 19 percent of the economy in the Obamacare bill. Anything would be better than that.
Wait, what? 'Given the depth of the recession that we were in' ? So, it was a really bad recession? Sure, 'gigantic' new spending. That is how you stimulate the economy, and it wasn't the trillion plus that really would have made a difference. Gigantic nex taxes? Really? Please see the 17 new small business tax cuts President Obama signed into law, including the JOBS Act just two weeks ago. Takeover of 18 percent of the economy, sure, whatever. As if the government participating in the economy is somehow detrimental to the economy.
DANIELS: But you know, the president -- apparently, nothing in his life has acquainted him with where jobs and wealth come from. He has no ear at all for the small business of this country. They're the ones on the receiving end of all of his new taxes. And, you know, frankly, I guess he never is going to get it.
You know, our state happens to be one where the workforce is growing, but all around us there are states, Chris, where people have simply given up looking for work. Everyone now knows if we had the same size workforce we had when this all started, unemployment as reported would be 11 percent. Not 8.x.
So, you know, this is still a very tough slog in most of America. And honestly, I can't name one thing that this administration has done that hasn't leaned against jobs and against growth. So, to that extent -- to the extent national policy has an affect, it's not really a surprise.
Of course you can't.
Noun verb Ronald Reagan.
.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/04/2 ... an-You-Did
Sorry President Obama, "Ronald Reagan Inherited a Much Worse Mess Than You Did".
Gov. Mitch Daniels, who continues to attract GOP VP speculation, appeared on Fox News Sunday with Chris Wallace. He was asked, very bluntly by Wallace, (except of course he frames it as 'the Obama argument') how going back to George Bush's trickle down, tax cuts for the rich policies could result in anything but more of the same, i.e. really bad news.
The answer is hardly surprising coming from a Republican. Sure, President Obama got a pretty raw deal but you know who had a worse mess when they entered office? If you guessed Ronald Reagan, you would be right of course.
The all purpose answer to anything and everything GOP. Ronald Reagan!
From the interview on Fox News Sunday with Gov. Mitch Daniels:
WALLACE: Well, let me pick up on that, though. What about the Obama argument that he inherited a mess from George W. Bush, and that if Romney gets in to office and enacts the policies he's espousing, that he will simply return us to that mess?
Governor Romney has endorsed Paul Ryan's budget. In principle, Ryan cuts tax rates for the rich without specifying which loopholes he would close. Ryan cuts nondefense discretionary spending by 19 percent in 2014, which the Obama campaign says would mean major cuts in Head Start, medical research and healthcare for the poor.
So, how about the Obama argument, what Romney will do is give tax cuts to the rich and spending cuts to the poor and the middle class?
DANIELS: First of all, the president did inherit a mess but it's not the first time it's ever happened. He's done less with the mess than anyone else ever did. Ronald Reagan inherited a bigger one and had a roaring economy already by this stage.
Whoa, let's stop right there. What a full of fail, full of lies package in two little sentences. It's not the 'first time' it's ever happened. True. There was that Great Depression thing. Which was created under a Republican administration and the country crawled out of with a Democratic president. So it's only been about 70 years or so since it happened before.
Ronald Reagan inherited a 'bigger mess'? Really? That's the new GOP talking point? Even if that were remotely true, that hardly discounts everything President Obama has done to get the economy going. Not to mention against historic intransigence from the opposition party. And the economy was 'roaring three years into his presidency?
How bad was the recession Reagan inherited?
The early 1980s recession was a severe recession in the United States which began in July 1981 and ended in November 1982
It didn't start until months into Reagan's first term.
According to Bloomberg News, who know a thing or two about the economy, the recession of 2009 is the worst on record since WWII.
Aug. 1 (Bloomberg) -- The first 12 months of the U.S. recession saw the economy shrink more than twice as much as previously estimated, reflecting even bigger declines in consumer spending and housing, revised figures showed.
The world’s largest economy contracted 1.9 percent from the fourth quarter of 2007 to the last three months of 2008, compared with the 0.8 percent drop previously on the books, the Commerce Department said yesterday in Washington. Gross domestic product has shrunk 3.9 percent in the past year, the report said, indicating the worst slump since the Great Depression.
“The current downturn beginning in 2008 is more pronounced,” Steven Landefeld, director of the Commerce Department’s Bureau of Economic Analysis, said in a press briefing this week. The revisions were in line with past experience in which initial figures tended to underestimate the severity of contractions during their early stages, he said.
And what about those terrible unemployment rates Reagan inherited, and how the economy was 'roaring' by year three. What was the unemployment rate when Reagan took office in January 1981? It was 7.5 percent. During the course of his first term the unemployment rate continued to climb, to double digits - 10.4 in January 1984. And by the end of his first term, December 1984, he had gotten it back down - all the way 7.3%, where he essentially started.
And Daniels continues on with his lies:
This is the weakest recovery, at least in the post-war period, if not ever, given the depth of the recession that we were in. With regard to how we get out of it, you can start by saying we couldn't do worse than the policy mix of this president -- gigantic new spending, gigantic new taxes, a takeover of 18 percent or 19 percent of the economy in the Obamacare bill. Anything would be better than that.
Wait, what? 'Given the depth of the recession that we were in' ? So, it was a really bad recession? Sure, 'gigantic' new spending. That is how you stimulate the economy, and it wasn't the trillion plus that really would have made a difference. Gigantic nex taxes? Really? Please see the 17 new small business tax cuts President Obama signed into law, including the JOBS Act just two weeks ago. Takeover of 18 percent of the economy, sure, whatever. As if the government participating in the economy is somehow detrimental to the economy.
DANIELS: But you know, the president -- apparently, nothing in his life has acquainted him with where jobs and wealth come from. He has no ear at all for the small business of this country. They're the ones on the receiving end of all of his new taxes. And, you know, frankly, I guess he never is going to get it.
You know, our state happens to be one where the workforce is growing, but all around us there are states, Chris, where people have simply given up looking for work. Everyone now knows if we had the same size workforce we had when this all started, unemployment as reported would be 11 percent. Not 8.x.
So, you know, this is still a very tough slog in most of America. And honestly, I can't name one thing that this administration has done that hasn't leaned against jobs and against growth. So, to that extent -- to the extent national policy has an affect, it's not really a surprise.
Of course you can't.
Noun verb Ronald Reagan.
.
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
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at least reagan had an opposing party that was willing to work with him for the good of the country..."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
gimmesometruth27 wrote:at least reagan had an opposing party that was willing to work with him for the good of the country...
...or perhaps Reagan was willing to work with the opposing party? :think:0 -
obama was willing to work with the gop for over 2 years until he finally realized they were not going to work with him so...DS1119 wrote:gimmesometruth27 wrote:at least reagan had an opposing party that was willing to work with him for the good of the country...
...or perhaps Reagan was willing to work with the opposing party? :think:"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
gimmesometruth27 wrote:
obama was willing to work with the gop for over 2 years until he finally realized they were not going to work with him so...DS1119 wrote:gimmesometruth27 wrote:at least reagan had an opposing party that was willing to work with him for the good of the country...
...or perhaps Reagan was willing to work with the opposing party? :think:
Beat me to it.
"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."
-Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, 10/25/100 -
reagan did not have an entire propaganda network working against him at every turn...
another FOX NEWS LIE... fox said that obama had a filibuster-proof majority for over 2 years....
reality- it only lasted for 133 days...
http://www.examiner.com/article/fox-new ... -two-years"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
Everything is a propaganda (I actually first wrote "propagenda" :P ) machine though, from politics, to social media and blogs, to Hollywood, to...you name it. It's all - well, mostly, I should say - some form of self-promotion, or the tearing down of someone else.
On the upside, our debt hit $16T today!0 -
gimmesometruth27 wrote:reagan did not have an entire propaganda network working against him at every turn...
another FOX NEWS LIE... fox said that obama had a filibuster-proof majority for over 2 years....
reality- it only lasted for 133 days...
http://www.examiner.com/article/fox-new ... -two-years
facts not welcome in political debates. :nono:0 -
gimmesometruth27 wrote:
obama was willing to work with the gop for over 2 years until he finally realized they were not going to work with him so...DS1119 wrote:gimmesometruth27 wrote:at least reagan had an opposing party that was willing to work with him for the good of the country...
...or perhaps Reagan was willing to work with the opposing party? :think:
If you believe that then :fp:0 -
whygohome wrote:Beat me to it.
"The single most important thing we want to achieve is for President Obama to be a one-term president."
-Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, 10/25/10
Zero wrong with that. If the Republicans so no daylight with this guy why give him an inch? Makes no sense. :?
Bottom line is Obama delivered on zero of his promises during his term and is now trying to live off of Bill Clinton's legacy. Good luck.
0 -
i absolutely believe that. and if your head wasn't buried so far up romney's butt you would know that. it has been stated in legitimate media sources and reposted on this board ad nauseum that mitch mcconnell's number one legislative priority was to make obama a one term president. they did that by stonewalling everything. where is the vote on obama's jobs bill???? that's right, the republicans did not allow a single fucking vote on that, just to make obama look bad. that never happened to reagan...the gop even voted against raising the debt ceiling and got out credit downgraded. they voted against the same things that they once supported once obama expressed support for their ideas. reagan never ever had to deal with a congress that hostile.DS1119 wrote:gimmesometruth27 wrote:DS1119 wrote:obama was willing to work with the gop for over 2 years until he finally realized they were not going to work with him so...
If you believe that then :fp:
but yeah, let's not let facts get in the way of a good debate, right :roll:
do yourself a favor and read news from a source other than fox news. you might learn something and you might stop embarrassing yourself."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
oh really???DS1119 wrote:Zero wrong with that. If the Republicans so no daylight with this guy why give him an inch? Makes no sense. :?
Bottom line is Obama delivered on zero of his promises during his term and is now trying to live off of Bill Clinton's legacy. Good luck.
spend a little time on this site and you might re-evaluate that statement.
http://obamaachievements.org/list"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
i hated bush, but the idea that this is his mess obama has to clean up, is a cop out and is an excuse people use to rationalize obamas utter failure. And lets face it, people who cant find jobs, or are being sent into fight in an illegal and immoral war in afghanistan, or who can't pay their bills, do they really care whose mess it is? They want someone to take charge and help them. Obama has done squat. The minute obama came into office the iraq war ceased to be bushs war. The climate crisis ceased to be something Bush failed to do anything about.
IM not voting for Romney or Obama in large part because of this silly discussion. I'd like to see every single person involved in the orchestration and carrying out of the iraq war in prison. Any senator or congressperson who knew about torture and said nothing, should be in prison. But those are just tiny steps. The real work is DOING SOMETHING. like I dont know, oh...closing down all torture facilities, ending the war, putting people to work, ending the drug war, saving the environment.
Im not interested in anything else0 -
gimmesometruth27 wrote:i absolutely believe that. and if your head wasn't buried so far up romney's butt you would know that. it has been stated in legitimate media sources and reposted on this board ad nauseum that mitch mcconnell's number one legislative priority was to make obama a one term president. they did that by stonewalling everything. where is the vote on obama's jobs bill???? that's right, the republicans did not allow a single fucking vote on that, just to make obama look bad. that never happened to reagan...the gop even voted against raising the debt ceiling and got out credit downgraded. they voted against the same things that they once supported once obama expressed support for their ideas. reagan never ever had to deal with a congress that hostile.
but yeah, let's not let facts get in the way of a good debate, right :roll:
do yourself a favor and read news from a source other than fox news. you might learn something and you might stop embarrassing yourself.
Embarrasing myself. Love it. If the Republicans saw any daylight in what Obama was trying to accomplish or any "give and take" they may have played along. There was zilch. Obama failed. Bottom line. At least he loves his Jay Z and will try and ride Bill Clinton's nutsack into re-election. 0 -
you have not read anything about the obstructionism have you? perhaps you should google this senate's use of the filibuster. it has been used more times this session than ever in american history. start there and then let's have a real conversation.DS1119 wrote:Embarrasing myself. Love it. If the Republicans saw any daylight in what Obama was trying to accomplish or any "give and take" they may have played along. There was zilch. Obama failed. Bottom line. At least he loves his Jay Z and will try and ride Bill Clinton's nutsack into re-election.
:corn:"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
DS1119 wrote:gimmesometruth27 wrote:i absolutely believe that. and if your head wasn't buried so far up romney's butt you would know that. it has been stated in legitimate media sources and reposted on this board ad nauseum that mitch mcconnell's number one legislative priority was to make obama a one term president. they did that by stonewalling everything. where is the vote on obama's jobs bill???? that's right, the republicans did not allow a single fucking vote on that, just to make obama look bad. that never happened to reagan...the gop even voted against raising the debt ceiling and got out credit downgraded. they voted against the same things that they once supported once obama expressed support for their ideas. reagan never ever had to deal with a congress that hostile.
but yeah, let's not let facts get in the way of a good debate, right :roll:
do yourself a favor and read news from a source other than fox news. you might learn something and you might stop embarrassing yourself.
Embarrasing myself. Love it. If the Republicans saw any daylight in what Obama was trying to accomplish or any "give and take" they may have played along. There was zilch. Obama failed. Bottom line. At least he loves his Jay Z and will try and ride Bill Clinton's nutsack into re-election. I completely agree, nice! 0 -
We have the same thing no matter which party is in power ...
sabotage, refuse to compromise, it's the reason nothing gets done for fear
the party in power will stay in power if they do a dynamite job. Dumb.
And the country suffers.
I wonder if this was considered when we got the two teams system
if so is it too late to just get a king and queen instead?
purple is a royal color
0 -
come on DS119. let's have an honest discussion on this and let's not hide behind talking points....gimmesometruth27 wrote:
you have not read anything about the obstructionism have you? perhaps you should google this senate's use of the filibuster. it has been used more times this session than ever in american history. start there and then let's have a real conversation.DS1119 wrote:Embarrasing myself. Love it. If the Republicans saw any daylight in what Obama was trying to accomplish or any "give and take" they may have played along. There was zilch. Obama failed. Bottom line. At least he loves his Jay Z and will try and ride Bill Clinton's nutsack into re-election.
:corn:"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
DS1119 wrote:live off of Bill Clinton's legacy. Good luck.
That its okay for a boss to abuse his power and prey on interns. If that happened at my work, someone would be out of a job, and it wouldn't be the intern!!! hippiemom = goodness0 -
clinton was not the first to cheat on his wife in the white house, and he won't be the last.cincybearcat wrote:DS1119 wrote:live off of Bill Clinton's legacy. Good luck.
That its okay for a boss to abuse his power and prey on interns. If that happened at my work, someone would be out of a job, and it wouldn't be the intern!!!
its pretty shitty that that is what people remember most about clinton."You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."0 -
gimmesometruth27 wrote:
clinton was not the first to cheat on his wife in the white house, and he won't be the last.cincybearcat wrote:DS1119 wrote:live off of Bill Clinton's legacy. Good luck.
That its okay for a boss to abuse his power and prey on interns. If that happened at my work, someone would be out of a job, and it wouldn't be the intern!!!
its pretty shitty that that is what people remember most about clinton.
It's his fault that he fucked his intern at work and then lied about it to a grand jury....that's pretty memorable. That dude was bulletproof though...I still can't believe how you remain president after that and have 50%+ of the people in the country not care!hippiemom = goodness0
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