If MLB and the NFL could work out a deal prior to the start of their respective seasons, and the NBA managed to reach an agreement, why can't the NHL do it too? The last thing this sport needs is another BS lockout. Don't let it happen, Gary!
apparently so , if sept 15th rolls in on us without a CBA agreement
i posted this in blueshirts thread but here goes
Thirty-seven days.
That's how much time remains for the NHL and its players' association to bridge a wide gap in collective bargaining negotiations or face another lockout.
Commissioner Gary Bettman made it clear during Thursday's bargaining session in New York that the league is prepared to lock out its players when the current agreement expires Sept. 15.
"I re-confirmed something that the union has been told multiple times over the last nine to 12 months," Bettman told reporters after a two-hour meeting. "Namely, that time is getting short and the owners are not prepared to operate under this collective bargaining agreement for another season, so we need to get to making a deal and doing it soon. And we believe there's ample time for the parties to get together and make a deal and that's what we're going to be working towards."
The clock is ticking.
It makes next week's meetings in Toronto particularly important, with NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr expected to deliver the union's first official proposal on Tuesday. It won't look anything like the one the NHL handed over July 13.
The union found very little, if anything, it liked in that document, which called for a lowering of the players' share in revenue, introduced new contract restrictions and called for an extended entry-level system.
One change the players will seek is a broadening of the revenue- sharing system between teams. Fehr raised that issue Thursday during the talks at NHL headquarters as a way to illustrate why the NHLPA wasn't in favour of the league's proposal.
"We made a presentation directly related to the owners' proposal -- a revenue-sharing system as it would be combined with the player compensation system that they had proposed," said Fehr. "In the course of doing that, (we) indicated to them that for a couple of different reasons it didn't look to us like it was the way to go.
"In particular, the biggest reason was that it seems to us, both overall and on a club-by-club basis, all of the revenue-sharing payments -- both the new ones and the existing ones -- would be paid for by player salary reductions."
That was by design.
Bettman indicated that "fundamental economics" are more of a key element to the negotiations than revenue sharing.
"The fundamental proposal, our initial proposal, relates to the fact that we need to be paying out less in player costs," he said.
The NHL lost its entire 2004-05 season to a lockout and seems to be facing the growing possibility of another one. It would be the third on Bettman's watch.
Fehr has floated the idea of continuing negotiations while players report to training camp if a new deal wasn't in place by Sept. 15.
"Under the law, if an agreement expires, that may give someone the legal ability to go on strike or in this case to impose a lockout," he said. "There's no requirement that they do so and if nobody does anything you (can) continue to work under the old conditions."
However, with the NHL unwilling to do that, negotiations will need to pick up pace. Even though the sides have been meeting regularly since the end of June, very little progress has been made on what they refer to as the "core economic issues" -- how revenues should be divided.
"There's a meaningful gulf there," said Fehr. "I'll leave it at that for now."
For the ones who had a notion, a notion deep inside
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
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I'm hoping this is just them playing hardball, trying to show the union that they mean business and want the deal done by the start of Training Camp. I'm sure if they're close to an agreement then Training Camp will continue as planned, without a deal. But when it's close to the start of the season proper, a full-out lockout may ensue. This is all speculation, of course; if they're far apart there's nothing to prevent a labour disruption.
That fucking clown Bettman should lockout the owners!!! They're the ones shelling out huge contracts for average players and then crying that they're broke.
Unfortunately the public blames the "greedy players" and always sides with the owners. Hopefully Fehr won't take any of Bettman's bullshit. The players made major concessions last time.
Bettman needs to go, long overdue.
Barrie, ON - Aug 22, 1998
London, ON - Sep 12, 2005
Toronto, ON - Aug 21, 2009
Toronto, ON- Sep 11 2011
Hamilton, ON- Sep 15 2011
London, ON- Jul 16 2013
Buffalo, NY- Oct 12 2013
it figures our NYR have legit chances of making noise and this..... :nono: :fp:
just get an arbitrator next week at the meeting and settle it
and they wonder why we get no coverage :fp:
oddly enough, i think the rangers could benefit the most out of this. gaborik gets the time he needs to heal his shoulder, and nash gets the time he needs to mesh with his new teammates.
What a fucking disaster this would be for the NHL. It doesn't sound good right now, but these things can always change very quickly and hopefully it does.
How much more money does the ownership/league want to take away from the players.
kills kills kills the league. i think some fans that were pushed away after the 2004 lockout were slowly coming back. this would put the fork in many many fans.
last seasons playoffs averaged 2.6 million viewers, up 33% from the previous year.
it figures our NYR have legit chances of making noise and this..... :nono: :fp:
just get an arbitrator next week at the meeting and settle it
and they wonder why we get no coverage :fp:
oddly enough, i think the rangers could benefit the most out of this. gaborik gets the time he needs to heal his shoulder, and nash gets the time he needs to mesh with his new teammates.
in a short season? i suppose so
but it will still cripple the sport so much more than it already is
all teams would be fresh going into the playoffs
i post on the board of a band that doesn't exsist anymore .......i need my head examined.......
I normally don't support Bettman, but in this instance I fully support the NHL.What's going on is ridiculous. 10-13 year guaranteed contracts in a sport where 1 hit your care your career is over, what Philadelphia did with offer to Shea Weber handing him 26 million or so in the that was to be paid out within the first couple years of the contract and yet the cap hit would have been 7 million.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
How much more money does the ownership/league want to take away from the players.
kills kills kills the league. i think some fans that were pushed away after the 2004 lockout were slowly coming back. this would put the fork in many many fans.
last seasons playoffs averaged 2.6 million viewers, up 33% from the previous year.
say goodbye to that extra 33%.
Yeah, there couldn't be worse timing for this to happen. Ratings are as high as they have been in a long time...a lockout would fucking kill all of the momentum that has been built up.
didn't the league make like 3 billion dollars last year? i really don't think they're gonna go broke anytime soon...this is just greedy owners looking for anyway to not put money into their teams
I normally don't support Bettman, but in this instance I fully support the NHL.What's going on is ridiculous. 10-13 year guaranteed contracts in a sport where 1 hit your care your career is over, what Philadelphia did with offer to Shea Weber handing him 26 million or so in the that was to be paid out within the first couple years of the contract and yet the cap hit would have been 7 million.
There's definitely some things that need to change. The whole long term contract/cap hit thing is ridiculous. The owners are crying about these contracts, yet they are the ones signing players to these ridiculous contracts.
didn't the league make like 3 billion dollars last year? i really don't think they're gonna go broke anytime soon...this is just greedy owners looking for anyway to not put money into their teams
The league as a whole is doing well, but there are a lot of teams that are losing a lot of money. They have to make major changes to the whole revenue sharing system.
didn't the league make like 3 billion dollars last year? i really don't think they're gonna go broke anytime soon...this is just greedy owners looking for anyway to not put money into their teams
The league as a whole is doing well, but there are a lot of teams that are losing a lot of money. They have to make major changes to the whole revenue sharing system.
The sport will survive...revenue is up. Why would the owners get rid of Bettman, their making more money now Than ever and they'll probably make even more after a lock out. I agree the owners want a lot of these things to protect themselves from each others, but it's really only a handful of teams that offer theses ridiculous contracts, so I would say the majority of owners want to protect themselves from the minority.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
In all honesty I dont see the league starting up until before/around the time of the Winter Classic. That is the NHL's Superbowl as far as league exposure/ad revenue.
If the lockout goes beyond that, it could be devastating.
The revenue sharing and over saturation of teams in this league is killing it. Teams that are bleeding money and require the help of the league to shovel cash their way to stay afloat need to go.
Meanwhile teams that do make money are held hostage to a salary cap and even more hilariously, have to fork over revenue sharing to these sad sack franchises that Gary Bettman himself forced on the league in the "expansion years". All he wanted back then was more teams in new areas so that they had to hand over franchise fees to the league to help pump money to their bottom line. While a couple of teams have had success, the majority have not.
Is their really a need for Florida to have two teams? How about the huge hockey market of Ohio?
Don't get me started on the rules changes that have drastically changed the shape of the game I once loved the most. Today I find myself a bigger fan of the NFL, which I once could not tolerate.
I've been watching this NHL product since 1983, and I have seen a lot.
A lockout this year just may be the final straw for me. I'll just walk away for good this time.
And so you see, I have come to doubt All that I once held as true I stand alone without beliefs The only truth I know is you.
Cut down the number of teams in the NHL they are far too many. At the very least 4 teams.
Peace
*We CAN bomb the World to pieces, but we CAN'T bomb it into PEACE*...Michael Franti
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
so many underserving US cities, and so many deserving canadian cities.
take action and fold the three or four bankrupt teams in the league.
I think Quebec is the only city in Canada that could support a team and won't be cock-blocked by Montreal, Ottawa, and Toronto owners. What other cities do you think could make it?
so many underserving US cities, and so many deserving canadian cities.
take action and fold the three or four bankrupt teams in the league.
Contracting some teams would absolutely solve a lot of the issues. However, I doubt the players union would sign off on that since that would mean the loss of 80-90 jobs in the league. Although I'm not sure if the players union would have to agree to that....not sure how that works.
Contracting some teams would absolutely solve a lot of the issues. However, I doubt the players union would sign off on that since that would mean the loss of 80-90 jobs in the league. Although I'm not sure if the players union would have to agree to that....not sure how that works.
Yeah, that isn't happening. And I'm not laughing at you just the contarction idea. As long as the league is making money as a whole the player's union will never let that happen. I hate unions.
so many underserving US cities, and so many deserving canadian cities.
take action and fold the three or four bankrupt teams in the league.
I think Quebec is the only city in Canada that could support a team and won't be cock-blocked by Montreal, Ottawa, and Toronto owners. What other cities do you think could make it?
Quebec will likely get a team...Sakatoon is also interested in a team as well. Just because a team fills a stadium doesn't mean it will compete. Winnepeg is sold out for years to come but their payroll is only 50 million close too 20 million behind the big boys. I want Canadians teams but not if their going to be farm teams for the US.
Their also planning on building an NHL arena in Markham Ontario another burb of Toronto.
I have certain rules I live by ... My First Rule ... I don't believe anything the government tells me ... George Carlin
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
In all honesty I dont see the league starting up until before/around the time of the Winter Classic. That is the NHL's Superbowl as far as league exposure/ad revenue.
If the lockout goes beyond that, it could be devastating.
The revenue sharing and over saturation of teams in this league is killing it. Teams that are bleeding money and require the help of the league to shovel cash their way to stay afloat need to go.
Meanwhile teams that do make money are held hostage to a salary cap and even more hilariously, have to fork over revenue sharing to these sad sack franchises that Gary Bettman himself forced on the league in the "expansion years". All he wanted back then was more teams in new areas so that they had to hand over franchise fees to the league to help pump money to their bottom line. While a couple of teams have had success, the majority have not.
Is their really a need for Florida to have two teams? How about the huge hockey market of Ohio?
Don't get me started on the rules changes that have drastically changed the shape of the game I once loved the most. Today I find myself a bigger fan of the NFL, which I once could not tolerate.
I've been watching this NHL product since 1983, and I have seen a lot.
A lockout this year just may be the final straw for me. I'll just walk away for good this time.
Good post.
I'm inclined to agree with most that the majority of the revenue sharing and contract issues stem from the fact that the league simply needs to contract by 5-6 teams, i.e. all those that have been in the red for the last few seasons: Pheonix, Florida, Nashville, Columbus, and Dallas. Axe those 5 franchises and everyone's revenues start going up (to be fair, the playoff run last year did get Nashville out of the red, but prior to that :nono:)
Bettman needs to accept that his dream of hockey in the southern US just isn't going to fly - this coming from a guy who lives in Houston, and regularly travels to Dallas to catch hockey games. It would digust most honest hockey fans in NYC, Toronto, and MTL to know that I regularly buy tickets for under face value 3 rows from the glass (and keep in mind that face value on them is only like $110).
Lose 5 teams, axe Bettman, and hold organizations responsible for the ridiculous contract offers they hand out... they'll learn quick enough, after a 13 year gaurenteed contract at 8 million a season get's knocked out of the league on a hit from Weber.... (I will happily take Bettman's job though now that I've solved all the leagues problems )
Houston, Texas... Believe it or not, there are 7 million people here... must be a couple of fans who'd love to see you play.
Bettman is just a puppet for the owners. Mainly the 8 richest owners on the b.o.g. also remember that his contract always gets extended by a unanimous vote. If they 'get rid of bettman', it would just be another empty lawyer suit
I am about 75% with the owners on this. I like how they want to close these loopholes exposed in the current cba with the front loaded contracts, rediculous length, etc. I also believe that the players share could be dropped a bit (not less than half imo).
They need to take some responsibility too with more meaningful revenue sharing. A majority of the money is being made by a few huge media markets, while 2/3 of the league is treading water to stay competitive, or hemorraging money just trying to get to the cap floor. There just isn't the widespread revenue to sustain on a team by team basis. "Well too bad"? If you are contracting teams, you might as well knock out half the league. Buffalo and pittsburgh both almost moved. Nashville came close, but were saved at zero hour. Ottawa was in trouble... Minnesota and winnipeg both lost teams. Hell, if the red wings were to go in a prolonged funk, they would lose money. Right now it happens to be phoenix, dallas, new jersey, and the isles.
With the cost certainty of an nhl team to be able to stand on its own legs, rich dudes will be more attracted to jumping in and purchasing teams like the coyotes and stars. Overall it is a huge step for the nhl. They made a nice step last time.
However, if the most wealthy owners are going to pass on all the burden of the financial disparity to the players, that sucks and this wont be resolved any time soon.
It is very good the dialogue is continuing.
As far as a work stoppage killing the league? No way. It will be just fine. Im not sure how long the players can afford to sit.... phoenix may also be used as leverage. If league doesn't start by xx/xx/xx, the coyotes will no longer be able to operate and will be contracted.
rival.
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Comments
i posted this in blueshirts thread but here goes
Thirty-seven days.
That's how much time remains for the NHL and its players' association to bridge a wide gap in collective bargaining negotiations or face another lockout.
Commissioner Gary Bettman made it clear during Thursday's bargaining session in New York that the league is prepared to lock out its players when the current agreement expires Sept. 15.
"I re-confirmed something that the union has been told multiple times over the last nine to 12 months," Bettman told reporters after a two-hour meeting. "Namely, that time is getting short and the owners are not prepared to operate under this collective bargaining agreement for another season, so we need to get to making a deal and doing it soon. And we believe there's ample time for the parties to get together and make a deal and that's what we're going to be working towards."
The clock is ticking.
It makes next week's meetings in Toronto particularly important, with NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr expected to deliver the union's first official proposal on Tuesday. It won't look anything like the one the NHL handed over July 13.
The union found very little, if anything, it liked in that document, which called for a lowering of the players' share in revenue, introduced new contract restrictions and called for an extended entry-level system.
One change the players will seek is a broadening of the revenue- sharing system between teams. Fehr raised that issue Thursday during the talks at NHL headquarters as a way to illustrate why the NHLPA wasn't in favour of the league's proposal.
"We made a presentation directly related to the owners' proposal -- a revenue-sharing system as it would be combined with the player compensation system that they had proposed," said Fehr. "In the course of doing that, (we) indicated to them that for a couple of different reasons it didn't look to us like it was the way to go.
"In particular, the biggest reason was that it seems to us, both overall and on a club-by-club basis, all of the revenue-sharing payments -- both the new ones and the existing ones -- would be paid for by player salary reductions."
That was by design.
Bettman indicated that "fundamental economics" are more of a key element to the negotiations than revenue sharing.
"The fundamental proposal, our initial proposal, relates to the fact that we need to be paying out less in player costs," he said.
The NHL lost its entire 2004-05 season to a lockout and seems to be facing the growing possibility of another one. It would be the third on Bettman's watch.
Fehr has floated the idea of continuing negotiations while players report to training camp if a new deal wasn't in place by Sept. 15.
"Under the law, if an agreement expires, that may give someone the legal ability to go on strike or in this case to impose a lockout," he said. "There's no requirement that they do so and if nobody does anything you (can) continue to work under the old conditions."
However, with the NHL unwilling to do that, negotiations will need to pick up pace. Even though the sides have been meeting regularly since the end of June, very little progress has been made on what they refer to as the "core economic issues" -- how revenues should be divided.
"There's a meaningful gulf there," said Fehr. "I'll leave it at that for now."
That it ain't no sin to be glad you're alive
ORGAN DONATION SAVES LIVES
http://www.UNOS.org
Donate Organs and Save a Life
just get an arbitrator next week at the meeting and settle it
and they wonder why we get no coverage :fp:
How much more money does the ownership/league want to take away from the players.
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
Unfortunately the public blames the "greedy players" and always sides with the owners. Hopefully Fehr won't take any of Bettman's bullshit. The players made major concessions last time.
Bettman needs to go, long overdue.
London, ON - Sep 12, 2005
Toronto, ON - Aug 21, 2009
Toronto, ON- Sep 11 2011
Hamilton, ON- Sep 15 2011
London, ON- Jul 16 2013
Buffalo, NY- Oct 12 2013
oddly enough, i think the rangers could benefit the most out of this. gaborik gets the time he needs to heal his shoulder, and nash gets the time he needs to mesh with his new teammates.
kills kills kills the league. i think some fans that were pushed away after the 2004 lockout were slowly coming back. this would put the fork in many many fans.
last seasons playoffs averaged 2.6 million viewers, up 33% from the previous year.
say goodbye to that extra 33%.
in a short season? i suppose so
but it will still cripple the sport so much more than it already is
all teams would be fresh going into the playoffs
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Yeah, there couldn't be worse timing for this to happen. Ratings are as high as they have been in a long time...a lockout would fucking kill all of the momentum that has been built up.
There's definitely some things that need to change. The whole long term contract/cap hit thing is ridiculous. The owners are crying about these contracts, yet they are the ones signing players to these ridiculous contracts.
The league as a whole is doing well, but there are a lot of teams that are losing a lot of money. They have to make major changes to the whole revenue sharing system.
they need to contract some teams
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
If the lockout goes beyond that, it could be devastating.
The revenue sharing and over saturation of teams in this league is killing it. Teams that are bleeding money and require the help of the league to shovel cash their way to stay afloat need to go.
Meanwhile teams that do make money are held hostage to a salary cap and even more hilariously, have to fork over revenue sharing to these sad sack franchises that Gary Bettman himself forced on the league in the "expansion years". All he wanted back then was more teams in new areas so that they had to hand over franchise fees to the league to help pump money to their bottom line. While a couple of teams have had success, the majority have not.
Is their really a need for Florida to have two teams? How about the huge hockey market of Ohio?
Don't get me started on the rules changes that have drastically changed the shape of the game I once loved the most. Today I find myself a bigger fan of the NFL, which I once could not tolerate.
I've been watching this NHL product since 1983, and I have seen a lot.
A lockout this year just may be the final straw for me. I'll just walk away for good this time.
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
Peace
*MUSIC IS the expression of EMOTION.....and that POLITICS IS merely the DECOY of PERCEPTION*
.....song_Music & Politics....Michael Franti
*The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite INSANE*....Nikola Tesla(a man who shaped our world of electricity with his futuristic inventions)
I agree...they have the opportunity to start now...fold Phoenix...
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
take action and fold the three or four bankrupt teams in the league.
Phoenix, Islanders, Devils, Columbus,(Am I missing anymore)
Thats not counting all of the other teams losing money, but being helped by revenue sharing.
All that I once held as true
I stand alone without beliefs
The only truth I know is you.
Contracting some teams would absolutely solve a lot of the issues. However, I doubt the players union would sign off on that since that would mean the loss of 80-90 jobs in the league. Although I'm not sure if the players union would have to agree to that....not sure how that works.
Yeah, that isn't happening.
Quebec will likely get a team...Sakatoon is also interested in a team as well. Just because a team fills a stadium doesn't mean it will compete. Winnepeg is sold out for years to come but their payroll is only 50 million close too 20 million behind the big boys. I want Canadians teams but not if their going to be farm teams for the US.
Their also planning on building an NHL arena in Markham Ontario another burb of Toronto.
"Life Is What Happens To You When Your Busy Making Other Plans" John Lennon
Good post.
I'm inclined to agree with most that the majority of the revenue sharing and contract issues stem from the fact that the league simply needs to contract by 5-6 teams, i.e. all those that have been in the red for the last few seasons: Pheonix, Florida, Nashville, Columbus, and Dallas. Axe those 5 franchises and everyone's revenues start going up (to be fair, the playoff run last year did get Nashville out of the red, but prior to that :nono:)
Bettman needs to accept that his dream of hockey in the southern US just isn't going to fly - this coming from a guy who lives in Houston, and regularly travels to Dallas to catch hockey games. It would digust most honest hockey fans in NYC, Toronto, and MTL to know that I regularly buy tickets for under face value 3 rows from the glass (and keep in mind that face value on them is only like $110).
Lose 5 teams, axe Bettman, and hold organizations responsible for the ridiculous contract offers they hand out... they'll learn quick enough, after a 13 year gaurenteed contract at 8 million a season get's knocked out of the league on a hit from Weber.... (I will happily take Bettman's job though now that I've solved all the leagues problems
I am about 75% with the owners on this. I like how they want to close these loopholes exposed in the current cba with the front loaded contracts, rediculous length, etc. I also believe that the players share could be dropped a bit (not less than half imo).
They need to take some responsibility too with more meaningful revenue sharing. A majority of the money is being made by a few huge media markets, while 2/3 of the league is treading water to stay competitive, or hemorraging money just trying to get to the cap floor. There just isn't the widespread revenue to sustain on a team by team basis. "Well too bad"? If you are contracting teams, you might as well knock out half the league. Buffalo and pittsburgh both almost moved. Nashville came close, but were saved at zero hour. Ottawa was in trouble... Minnesota and winnipeg both lost teams. Hell, if the red wings were to go in a prolonged funk, they would lose money. Right now it happens to be phoenix, dallas, new jersey, and the isles.
With the cost certainty of an nhl team to be able to stand on its own legs, rich dudes will be more attracted to jumping in and purchasing teams like the coyotes and stars. Overall it is a huge step for the nhl. They made a nice step last time.
However, if the most wealthy owners are going to pass on all the burden of the financial disparity to the players, that sucks and this wont be resolved any time soon.
It is very good the dialogue is continuing.
As far as a work stoppage killing the league? No way. It will be just fine. Im not sure how long the players can afford to sit.... phoenix may also be used as leverage. If league doesn't start by xx/xx/xx, the coyotes will no longer be able to operate and will be contracted.