"Illegal immigrant" = slur?

cincybearcat

A couple of great articles. Of course, 1 pissed me off with it's pc and the other I thought was really terrific, but that is just my own opinion of the matter. Regardless, I thought it was thought provoking.

Article #1

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/05/opinion/g ... index.html

Article #2

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/06/opinion/n ... ?hpt=hp_t2

Personally, I don't think you can deal with a situation if you can't speak about it honestly.

know1

I didn't read the articles, but I will say this. If you're calling someone an illegal immigrant who actually is one, then it's not a slur.

But...I see way too many people who just assume everyone who's Hispanic is illegal and they label them as such. I think that's wrong.

unsung

I'm offended that they would try to make those that want the law enforced a racist. These people are illegal aliens. Undocumented immigrants is an insult to those that followed the law and made themselves a success.

mickeyrat

You are right Cincy, thought provoking indeed.

I agree with points raised in both articles.

I also think Kennedy's term of removable alien paints a much broader picture to include all those who got here through other than official channels.

for me , the term illegal immigrant paints a very narrow picture that depicts those of hispanic descent only.

It depends on who uses the term and in what context could it be deemed as a slur. Kinda like another taboo word that enjoys frequent use within a particular segment of the population.

cincybearcat

know1 wrote:

I didn't read the articles, but I will say this. If you're calling someone an illegal immigrant who actually is one, then it's not a slur.

But...I see way too many people who just assume everyone who's Hispanic is illegal and they label them as such. I think that's wrong.

Just like calling someone a criminal that isn't one? Does that make the term criminal inherently racist and a slur?

We give too much power to words an then spend all our time bickering about the words instead of dealing with any issues. It keeps people busy so that they don't realize no one in the government has done a damn thing.

cincybearcat

mickeyrat wrote:

for me , the term illegal immigrant paints a very narrow picture that depicts those of hispanic descent only.

It depends on who uses the term and in what context could it be deemed as a slur. Kinda like another taboo word that enjoys frequent use within a particular segment of the population.

Yeah, that is interesting. The word certainly doesn't mean that, but is that today's definition of the word?

For some reason, I prefer to say illegal immigrant far more than illegal alien. Even if they are here illegally, I like to think they are from Earth!

StillHere

IMO you are either an "illegal" immigrant or you or not
calling it like it is should not be considered a slur

i do agree though that many people just assume that someone with their first language other than English is illegal and that is not fair.

however, i don't see it as a slur on the individual

people are WAY to sensitive these days.

if someone called you the N word or the Sp word, that's an attack on your heritage or your person

Illegal Immigrant is merely a statement of fact

know1

cincybearcat wrote:

know1 wrote:

I didn't read the articles, but I will say this. If you're calling someone an illegal immigrant who actually is one, then it's not a slur.

But...I see way too many people who just assume everyone who's Hispanic is illegal and they label them as such. I think that's wrong.

Just like calling someone a criminal that isn't one? Does that make the term criminal inherently racist and a slur?

We give too much power to words an then spend all our time bickering about the words instead of dealing with any issues. It keeps people busy so that they don't realize no one in the government has done a damn thing.

I didn't say the term was inherently racist or a slur. I just said I think it's wrong for people to assume all Hispanic people are illegal immigrants. I see people do that and it bothers me.

My views on immigration are pretty far out there, though. I think everyone who wants to come here and be a citizen, should be able to do so much more easily than they can now. Essentially, I think we fix the problem by de-criminalizing it.

know1

StillHere wrote:

IMO you are either an "illegal" immigrant or you or not
calling it like it is should not be considered a slur

i do agree though that many people just assume that someone with their first language other than English is illegal and that is not fair.

however, i don't see it as a slur on the individual

people are WAY to sensitive these days.

if someone called you the N word or the Sp word, that's an attack on your heritage or your person

Illegal Immigrant is merely a statement of fact

Illegal immigrant is merely a statement of fact if you know it's true.

If you don't know it was true, then it's a slur.....although I'm not saying it's a racial slur. I'm focused on the criminal part of the label.

It's kind of like if I called you a rapist. If I don't have any evidence to prove it, then it's a slur.

mickeyrat

cincybearcat wrote:

mickeyrat wrote:

for me , the term illegal immigrant paints a very narrow picture that depicts those of hispanic descent only.

It depends on who uses the term and in what context could it be deemed as a slur. Kinda like another taboo word that enjoys frequent use within a particular segment of the population.

Yeah, that is interesting. The word certainly doesn't mean that, but is that today's definition of the word?

For some reason, I prefer to say illegal immigrant far more than illegal alien. Even if they are here illegally, I like to think they are from Earth!

Kennedy's other term of unauthorized migrant is probaly the truest statement out of all of them. It speaks more to the act and its continuation from that particualr human, than the other which does seem to suggest a lessor being.

cincybearcat

know1 wrote:

Illegal immigrant is merely a statement of fact if you know it's true.

If you don't know it was true, then it's a slur.....although I'm not saying it's a racial slur. I'm focused on the criminal part of the label.

It's kind of like if I called you a rapist. If I don't have any evidence to prove it, then it's a slur.

Make sense.

mickeyrat

know1 wrote:

StillHere wrote:

IMO you are either an "illegal" immigrant or you or not
calling it like it is should not be considered a slur

i do agree though that many people just assume that someone with their first language other than English is illegal and that is not fair.

however, i don't see it as a slur on the individual

people are WAY to sensitive these days.

if someone called you the N word or the Sp word, that's an attack on your heritage or your person

Illegal Immigrant is merely a statement of fact

Illegal immigrant is merely a statement of fact if you know it's true.

If you don't know it was true, then it's a slur.....although I'm not saying it's a racial slur. I'm focused on the criminal part of the label.

It's kind of like if I called you a rapist. If I don't have any evidence to prove it, then it's a slur.

but thats the point, its a civil distinction not a criminal one. unless a crime when undocumented or unauthorized to be here is commited you are deported not sent to prison then deported.

know1

mickeyrat wrote:

but thats the point, its a civil distinction not a criminal one. unless a crime when undocumented or unauthorized to be here is commited you are deported not sent to prison then deported.

Hmm...I didn't know that being an illegal immigrant was not considered a crime. It seems as if someone has the authority to detain you for something, that it's a crime.

mickeyrat

know1 wrote:

mickeyrat wrote:

but thats the point, its a civil distinction not a criminal one. unless a crime when undocumented or unauthorized to be here is commited you are deported not sent to prison then deported.

Hmm...I didn't know that being an illegal immigrant was not considered a crime. It seems as if someone has the authority to detain you for something, that it's a crime.

the use of the word crime is being blurred here. There is Civil Law and there is Criminal Law. Immigration law falls under the civil code.

mickeyrat

know1 wrote:

mickeyrat wrote:

but thats the point, its a civil distinction not a criminal one. unless a crime when undocumented or unauthorized to be here is commited you are deported not sent to prison then deported.

Hmm...I didn't know that being an illegal immigrant was not considered a crime. It seems as if someone has the authority to detain you for something, that it's a crime.

this right here. I can be a witness to a crime. I could be held as a material witness to that crime and be detained. By your definition that would make me a criminal becuase I'm being detained.

StillHere

mickeyrat wrote:

know1 wrote:

StillHere wrote:

IMO you are either an "illegal" immigrant or you or not
calling it like it is should not be considered a slur

i do agree though that many people just assume that someone with their first language other than English is illegal and that is not fair.

however, i don't see it as a slur on the individual

people are WAY to sensitive these days.

if someone called you the N word or the Sp word, that's an attack on your heritage or your person

Illegal Immigrant is merely a statement of fact

Illegal immigrant is merely a statement of fact if you know it's true.

If you don't know it was true, then it's a slur.....although I'm not saying it's a racial slur. I'm focused on the criminal part of the label.

It's kind of like if I called you a rapist. If I don't have any evidence to prove it, then it's a slur.

but thats the point, its a civil distinction not a criminal one. unless a crime when undocumented or unauthorized to be here is commited you are deported not sent to prison then deported.

isn't that exactly what I said? If it is true, and you know it to be true, it is not a slur. If you are assuming because of skin color or language, etc., then it could be a slur, HOWEVER I do not believe it is a "racial" slur.

know1

mickeyrat wrote:

know1 wrote:

mickeyrat wrote:

but thats the point, its a civil distinction not a criminal one. unless a crime when undocumented or unauthorized to be here is commited you are deported not sent to prison then deported.

Hmm...I didn't know that being an illegal immigrant was not considered a crime. It seems as if someone has the authority to detain you for something, that it's a crime.

this right here. I can be a witness to a crime. I could be held as a material witness to that crime and be detained. By your definition that would make me a criminal becuase I'm being detained.

No - you're misinterpreting what I said. My main point was that I didn't know it wasn't a crime.

mickeyrat

know1 wrote:

mickeyrat wrote:

know1 wrote:

Hmm...I didn't know that being an illegal immigrant was not considered a crime. It seems as if someone has the authority to detain you for something, that it's a crime.

this right here. I can be a witness to a crime. I could be held as a material witness to that crime and be detained. By your definition that would make me a criminal becuase I'm being detained.

No - you're misinterpreting what I said. My main point was that I didn't know it wasn't a crime.

gotcha.

hedonist

know1 wrote:

If you're calling someone an illegal immigrant who actually is one, then it's not a slur.

But...I see way too many people who just assume everyone who's Hispanic is illegal and they label them as such. I think that's wrong.

I agree with the above. Since when must everyone be treated with kid gloves, tiptoed around?

The truth is the truth; speaking it doesn't make one bigoted or racist.

I'll also say that many people do not automatically make the Hispanic/illegal assumption.

My experience has been that those who use the term ("illegal immigrant") factually and without malice (even if others perceive the term being used with rancor or blinders) typically don't tie race into immigration status.

brianlux

It's usually easy to tell when someone is racist, especially talking to someone in person. As far as the term itself goes, "unauthorized migrant" seems more accurate. But words are only 7% of communication. Talking to someone in person, you can usually tell if they are racist.

Cosmo

I have to ask... who finds it a 'slur'?
From the referenced articles, it sounds like the author of the 'opinion' article. He is the one who makes the case of the term, 'Illegal Immigrant', a slur.
The second article refers to 'friends in the community' as finding the term a slur... one of the 'friends' being the author of the first article.
...
To me, and to many people, the term 'Illegal Immigrant' refers specifically those whom gained entry without going through the legal process. So, the term holds true to those specific individuals. To call everyone who looks Latino and Illegal Immigrant reflects more of the shithead who believe that, than anyone else.
...
Personally, it sounds like CNN contributing editor, Mr. Garcia, is looking to stir the pot after adding a healthy amount of racial tension to it.
...
Finally, I completely agree with Cincy... that we place too much weight of words from the mouths of ignorant people and should look closer to at root causes and address those issues. But, sad to say, we are too stupid as a nation to go the difficult route of solution and will remain on the easy route of shouting at each other and only listening to our own opinions.

mikepegg44

illegal immigrant can never be a slur. The intent of degradation of a particular race comes from the person saying it who may be inherently racist. So a racist can mean illegal immigrant as a negative when referring to which ever brown person pissed him/her off but that doesn't make the term a racial slur.
As with anything else, the word has a specific meaning, if you want to apply that meaning to a specific race and change it to fit what you want then that is on you, not the words themselves...(but no one ever changes definitions around here here ) it is all in the heart of the person saying it that gives the words the extra meaning. So it isn't a slur, it isn't anything, it is a name of a particular criminal...we put it into our own context. When I say it, the person hearing it takes it to mean something, and that could be completely different from how it was meant to be. But if I say illegal immigrant and the first thing I think of is the Kmart parking lot on the corner of Lake and Nicollet where the "independent" contractors are hired, am I racist?

StillHere

brianlux wrote:

It's usually easy to tell when someone is racist, especially talking to someone in person. As far as the term itself goes, "unauthorized migrant" seems more accurate. But words are only 7% of communication. Talking to someone in person, you can usually tell if they are racist.

absolutely, its the body language
and the tone of voice
will give you away every single time

Hugh Freaking Dillon

who knows. up here in the great white north we still have a national government agency called Indian Affairs, when last I checked, it has nothing to do with Indians, but First Nations. It blows my mind that everyone makes such a big deal about calling them Indians (myself included-I correct people constantly), but our own government won't take the bloody time to change the name of the agency to make it accurate to the times.

I agree with Cosmo. if they didn't get into the country LEGALLY, then it stands to reason they are there ILLEGALLY, making them ILLEGAL immigrants. I'm fairly racially sensitive, and even I have no issue with that term. it's a factual term, not an offensive one.

Hugh Freaking Dillon

StillHere wrote:

brianlux wrote:

It's usually easy to tell when someone is racist, especially talking to someone in person. As far as the term itself goes, "unauthorized migrant" seems more accurate. But words are only 7% of communication. Talking to someone in person, you can usually tell if they are racist.

absolutely, its the body language
and the tone of voice
will give you away every single time

especially if their sentence begins with "I'm not racist, but....". :fp:

_

1. People are not illegal. Actions are illegal. So, no, I don't think it's grammatically or politically correct to call a person illegal.

2. I think it's particularly wrong when people remove the noun from the phrase "illegal immigrant" and just call someone "an illegal" (or "a illegal" - that's even worse). That reduces a person's entire identity to one act, which is a way of marginalizing and belittling someone.

cincybearcat

_ wrote:

1. People are not illegal. Actions are illegal. So, no, I don't think it's grammatically or politically correct to call a person illegal.

2. I think it's particularly wrong when people remove the noun from the phrase "illegal immigrant" and just call someone "an illegal" (or "a illegal" - that's even worse). That reduces a person's entire identity to one act, which is a way of marginalizing and belittling someone.

1) What if they very existence of a person in a particular place is against the law? Shall we just call them what others that commit crimes are? Trespasser? Criminal? What works for you?

2) I can agree with this. I don't do it myself but I've heard it said before I think.

_

cincybearcat wrote:

_ wrote:

1. People are not illegal. Actions are illegal. So, no, I don't think it's grammatically or politically correct to call a person illegal.

2. I think it's particularly wrong when people remove the noun from the phrase "illegal immigrant" and just call someone "an illegal" (or "a illegal" - that's even worse). That reduces a person's entire identity to one act, which is a way of marginalizing and belittling someone.

1) What if they very existence of a person in a particular place is against the law? Shall we just call them what others that commit crimes are? Trespasser? Criminal? What works for you?

2) I can agree with this. I don't do it myself but I've heard it said before I think.

1. I think undocumented is better. It's more precise. Or, if you have to use the word illegal, say someone immigrated here illegally - that way it refers to a verb. But I think that implies a violation of the criminal code and, as Mikeyrat has already pointed out, that's inaccurate. I think the widespread use of the word "illegal" is the main reason most people are confused about that.

Godfather.

a slur ? no it's not it's a fact,I don't understand how this could even be debated. :fp:


Godfather.

satansbed

Godfather. wrote:

a slur ? no it's not it's a fact,I don't understand how this could even be debated. :fp:


Godfather.

But its not a fact if the person called an ilegal immigrant is actually here legally, it's a slur with racial connotations if used indiscriminately towards someone who is here legally

now the use of it doesn't make some one inherently racist either

Jason P

It's slander (if spoken) or libel (if written or broadcast) if someone is referred to as an illegal immigrant if they are in a location by legal means.