In Search Of A New Amplifier

DaveyG · June 2012

I've been playing through a Raven RG60 (cheap solid state) for as long as I can remember. It's certainly loud enough, but it's not the greatest tone-wise. I'm looking for a 1x12 tube combo, 30W or higher (loud enough for small gigs and band practices). My absolute max is $700, but I'd feel much more comfortable around $500, so I'm probably going to end up buying used. I'd love to get opinions on amps I'm considering as well as other possibilities, I've watched demos of all of these amps, but I can't really tell what an amp truly sounds like with those. My band plays music similar to Death Cab For Cutie and Modest Mouse, but I'd like to be able to get higher gain (Audioslave, Hum, early Green Day) as well because I like that sort of thing too.

Here are some amps I've been checking out:

Blackstar Venue Series HT-40 Club (40W)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifie ... -combo-amp

I've heard Blackstars are pretty versatile, and it looks like I can get one used for around $550. I have yet to be able to try one out, the closest store that carries them is a bit of a drive, but I'll get there eventually. Are Blackstars durable/reliable?

Blackstar Venue Series HT-60 Soloist (60W)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifie ... -combo-amp

This is the same amp as the Club, but with 20 more watts and a presence knob plus a boost option. They go for around $640 used. Do the 20 additional watts give much more clean headroom, or is it not worth the extra money?

Carvin Nomad (50W)
http://www.carvinguitars.com/products/NOMAD

There's no place around I can try it out, so it'd be a gamble, but I've heard good things.

Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue (40W)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifie ... -combo-amp

I tried a used one ($549!) out today, and I loved it. Not a lot of gain though, so I would have to use a stompbox for higher-gain stuff (currently have a Visual Sound Jekyll & Hyde as well as a Big Muff). Do these things take gain and fuzz stompboxes well?

Peavey Classic 30/112 (30W)
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifie ... -combo-amp

I've read bad things about the durability/reliability of the Peavey Classic 30/112, as well as reports of a lot of tube rattle. They're very well-priced on eBay, but it seems like most people recommend replacing the tubes and the speaker, I'd imagine that would add up to a lot of money.

Used Fender Supersonic
This would be great if I could get one at a low price.

Used Mesa Boogie Combo
Maybe an F50 or a Dual Caliber.

Sorry for the long post, but I'd love to hear feedback about these amps, and also, if there are any good amps I'm overlooking, please tell me. Thanks.

All Those Yesterdays · June 2012

I own a Carvin 212 Belair. Which is more less the 2 12 version of the Nomad. Honestly switching speakers out to Vintage 30's won't make it sound like that Vox. That speaker change would not necessarily be a bad thing for the Carvin, but it's not going in the Vox direction. I would compare the Carvin circuit to be extremely similar sounding to the Peavey Classic series circuits. The Carvin has good cleans, they can get semi glassy and descent drive. It gets more drive then I ever used. But in the direction of Smashing Pumpkins? No not at all. But they always seem to be more in the fuzz direction of things.

Now i see Carvin has switched to a digital reverb. I'm not to impressed with that. Mine still has spring reverb.

Out of your list I would avoid that Vox and that Marshall. Honestly check out Peaveys Classic series. You can get those used for a really descent price.

DewieCox · June 2012

I'd strongly recommend the Egnater 1x12 Tweaker combo or go with the head/Avatar Speaker cab with a speaker of your choice. I've got the Rebel and the thing is versatile as hell, and I've got a good friend that owns the Tweaker combo and it absolutely smokes and has a great range of sounds with plenty of gain on tap for all but the most extreme stuff.

If you're wanting a getting into Smashing Pumpkins range you're gonna need a Big Muff style fuzz as that's really a key to his sound. Stomp Under Foot is a company that specializes in various Muff clones, and they cover all the classic variations, including one they call the "Pumpkin Pi",

DaveyG · June 2012

All Those Yesterdays wrote:

I own a Carvin 212 Belair. Which is more less the 2 12 version of the Nomad. Honestly switching speakers out to Vintage 30's won't make it sound like that Vox. That speaker change would not necessarily be a bad thing for the Carvin, but it's not going in the Vox direction. I would compare the Carvin circuit to be extremely similar sounding to the Peavey Classic series circuits. The Carvin has good cleans, they can get semi glassy and descent drive. It gets more drive then I ever used. But in the direction of Smashing Pumpkins? No not at all. But they always seem to be more in the fuzz direction of things.

Now i see Carvin has switched to a digital reverb. I'm not to impressed with that. Mine still has spring reverb.

Out of your list I would avoid that Vox and that Marshall. Honestly check out Peaveys Classic series. You can get those used for a really descent price.

Thanks man, great advice. So, overall, you like your Carvin?

DewieCox wrote:

I'd strongly recommend the Egnater 1x12 Tweaker combo or go with the head/Avatar Speaker cab with a speaker of your choice. I've got the Rebel and the thing is versatile as hell, and I've got a good friend that owns the Tweaker combo and it absolutely smokes and has a great range of sounds with plenty of gain on tap for all but the most extreme stuff.

Thanks, I've looked into the Tweakers, but it's just too many controls for me, I'd like something a little simpler.

DewieCox wrote:

If you're wanting a getting into Smashing Pumpkins range you're gonna need a Big Muff style fuzz as that's really a key to his sound. Stomp Under Foot is a company that specializes in various Muff clones, and they cover all the classic variations, including one they call the "Pumpkin Pi",

I actually already have a Big Muff, I guess Pumpkins is a bad example gain-wise, but I would like to make sure that the amp I get would sound okay with a Big Muff with the sustain all-the-way-up. In terms of regular gain, I guess I'm hoping to get a Green-Day-Brain-Stew-style chunk.

DewieCox · June 2012

DaveyG wrote:

Thanks, I've looked into the Tweakers, but it's just too many controls for me, I'd like something a little simpler.

I don't have to deal with a Tweaker on a day-to-day basis , but my Rebel couldn't be simpler. I really don't think there are many amps in this price range that have the flexibility that they have. I play some Modest Mouse, Wilco, Radiohead and other stuff with a similar gain level, but I can also crank up the gain to jam along with the Tool catalog, all in a single channel. I think both would be great for the set and forget it crowd along with the person that's constantly switching stuff up.

All Those Yesterdays · June 2012

DaveyG wrote:

All Those Yesterdays wrote:

I own a Carvin 212 Belair. Which is more less the 2 12 version of the Nomad. Honestly switching speakers out to Vintage 30's won't make it sound like that Vox. That speaker change would not necessarily be a bad thing for the Carvin, but it's not going in the Vox direction. I would compare the Carvin circuit to be extremely similar sounding to the Peavey Classic series circuits. The Carvin has good cleans, they can get semi glassy and descent drive. It gets more drive then I ever used. But in the direction of Smashing Pumpkins? No not at all. But they always seem to be more in the fuzz direction of things.

Now i see Carvin has switched to a digital reverb. I'm not to impressed with that. Mine still has spring reverb.

Out of your list I would avoid that Vox and that Marshall. Honestly check out Peaveys Classic series. You can get those used for a really descent price.

Thanks man, great advice. So, overall, you like your Carvin?

The Carvin was the first tube amp I owned with Reverb. I wanted more drive over the amp i had at the time. The Carvin took care of that. I've out grown the amp now adays, and it sits in the corner with it's cover on. These days, I'm just not a fan of the fizz that comes from EL84's anymore. But it seems you are in the same place that I was when I got my Carvin. I'd think a Peavey Classic series would fit the bill for what you need and want. descent price on ebay too.

DaveyG · June 2012

DewieCox wrote:

DaveyG wrote:

Thanks, I've looked into the Tweakers, but it's just too many controls for me, I'd like something a little simpler.

I don't have to deal with a Tweaker on a day-to-day basis , but my Rebel couldn't be simpler. I really don't think there are many amps in this price range that have the flexibility that they have. I play some Modest Mouse, Wilco, Radiohead and other stuff with a similar gain level, but I can also crank up the gain to jam along with the Tool catalog, all in a single channel. I think both would be great for the set and forget it crowd along with the person that's constantly switching stuff up.

I actually tried a Rebel (and liked it quite a bit) a while ago, but the combo is too far out of my price range. It seems like used ones in good condition only drop down to around $750 at best.

All Those Yesterdays wrote:

All Those Yesterdays wrote:

I own a Carvin 212 Belair. Which is more less the 2 12 version of the Nomad. Honestly switching speakers out to Vintage 30's won't make it sound like that Vox. That speaker change would not necessarily be a bad thing for the Carvin, but it's not going in the Vox direction. I would compare the Carvin circuit to be extremely similar sounding to the Peavey Classic series circuits. The Carvin has good cleans, they can get semi glassy and descent drive. It gets more drive then I ever used. But in the direction of Smashing Pumpkins? No not at all. But they always seem to be more in the fuzz direction of things.

Now i see Carvin has switched to a digital reverb. I'm not to impressed with that. Mine still has spring reverb.

Out of your list I would avoid that Vox and that Marshall. Honestly check out Peaveys Classic series. You can get those used for a really descent price.

DaveyG wrote:

Thanks man, great advice. So, overall, you like your Carvin?

The Carvin was the first tube amp I owned with Reverb. I wanted more drive over the amp i had at the time. The Carvin took care of that. I've out grown the amp now adays, and it sits in the corner with it's cover on. These days, I'm just not a fan of the fizz that comes from EL84's anymore. But it seems you are in the same place that I was when I got my Carvin. I'd think a Peavey Classic series would fit the bill for what you need and want. descent price on ebay too.

I've read bad things about the durability/reliability of the Peavey Classic 30/112, as well as reports of a lot of tube rattle. They're very well-priced on eBay, but it seems like most people recommend replacing the tubes and the speaker, I'd imagine that would add up to a lot of money.

mccreadyisgod · June 2012

Out of that list, I'd get the Fender Blues Deluxe. It's a solid, reliable amp that sounds great for your primary styles, and takes pedals really well. Generally speaking, the Fender Hot Rod / Blues series of amps is known for being a great clean amp that works great with almost all pedals. However, it's worth noting that their on-board overdrive/distortion channels are almost universally disliked. That's why it's great that they take pedals really well. Get a good overdrive pedal and a good distortion pedal, you're set (and you've got a pretty good set already).

If the seller of the Blues Deluxe is at all worth working with, they should have no problems letting you plug your guitar into your pedals to try with the amp. Private party, dealer, whichever... it's $550, you should get to take it for a proper test-drive.

I don't really know anything about Blackstars, besides some general word-of-mouth from around the web. By reputation, they sound pretty good, very British. I'd be worried about reliability, and I would be especially concerned about resale value if the amp didn't meet my needs. I got nothing on the Carvin.

As for the Peavey Classic amps, they are VERY EL-84 sounding amps. Not exactly chimey, not like a Vox, but they have a presence and fizziness that comes with those tubes. I've heard people sound awesome with them (Stone even played Delta Blues 210 amps on a few tours, very similar) but I've never liked EL-84s. As for reliability, they do have some trouble with the tube sockets and heat. Not huge problems, but they persist. Then again, Fender's had issues with soldering in some of their Hot Rod/Blues amps. In this price range, nobody's immune. But if the Blues Deluxe is used, it's probably been used enough to know that it works good, and the resale value will stay around the purchase price.

G/L.

DriftingByTheStorm · June 2012

Whatever MiG says, although i always HATED my Fender HotRod Deluxe ...
it was just NOT the sound i wanted. Too "hot", too clean, too chimey, reverb was too deep (like someone singing in the shower behind closed doors) ... the distortion (as noted) sounded like poopoo, and it had a bunch of cheap parts inside that kept breaking and costing me money.

I'll thumbs up the Egnater ... i don't know about his newer line, but i have an old 80's "DualTone" 100watt head made by Bob and it is AWESOME. He definitely knows his shit.

I'd also be curious what this sounds like (Bugera 6260 120w 2x12 4-6L6 Combo Amp, by Behringer) ... i have no idea if it is good (i suspect it probably fails at either cleans or "good" gain, but it has promise at $600) ...

PS -

You can also probably pretty easily score some sort of 1x12 Combo Mesaboogie for <$600 ... you'd have to do your homework to get one that had that blend of amazing clean & killer gain though. I mean, you'd have to find one that gave you the clean tone you wanted, lol ... cuz they all seem to be just fine in the gain department.

DriftingByTheStorm · June 2012

Uh.
Your profile says you are in high school and have seen like 5 shows all in the bay area, so i'm assuming you live near San Fran?

YOU NEED THIS:
Hi-Watt Clone - $650

yes yes yes!
on youtube sounding like sexbutter

So far your only other clist choices seemed to be
an OLD mesa head that needs retubed

or
an overpriced Crate in disguise

I would think if you blew $650 on that Hi-Watt clone you would probably end up keeping it until you were in your 30's ... just saying.

You could also pitty the guy with your "broke highschooler in need of sexy amp, and hey i have good taste, and oh did you hand build this point to point ... (brown nose here) ..." and possibly take it for $550 or $575.

?

edit:
25w Rivera - $625 - i still like the HiWatt Clone though

DaveyG · June 2012

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Whatever MiG says, although i always HATED my Fender HotRod Deluxe ...
it was just NOT the sound i wanted. Too "hot", too clean, too chimey, reverb was too deep (like someone singing in the shower behind closed doors) ... the distortion (as noted) sounded like poopoo, and it had a bunch of cheap parts inside that kept breaking and costing me money.

You know I tried out a Hot Rod Deluxe and hated it too (the overdrive sounds like someone hit a Rat with a hammer, and not in a good way), but the Blues Deluxe is great.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

I'd also be curious what this sounds like (Bugera 6260 120w 2x12 4-6L6 Combo Amp, by Behringer) ... i have no idea if it is good (i suspect it probably fails at either cleans or "good" gain, but it has promise at $600) ...

A former bandmate of mine had a Bugera--not very good.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

PS -

You can also probably pretty easily score some sort of 1x12 Combo Mesaboogie for <$600 ... you'd have to do your homework to get one that had that blend of amazing clean & killer gain though. I mean, you'd have to find one that gave you the clean tone you wanted, lol ... cuz they all seem to be just fine in the gain department.

I always thought Mesas would be too expensive, but a quick eBay search shows I might be able to get a used one pretty cheap, good idea.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Uh.
Your profile says you are in high school and have seen like 5 shows all in the bay area, so i'm assuming you live near San Fran?

The internet is a scary thing.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

YOU NEED THIS:
Hi-Watt Clone - $650

yes yes yes!
on youtube sounding like sexbutter

Oh man, that's beyond awesome, but I'd rather not deal with a head/cab situation.

I'm going to start looking into used Mesas more. Thanks.

DriftingByTheStorm · June 2012

DaveyG wrote:

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Whatever MiG says, although i always HATED my Fender HotRod Deluxe ...
it was just NOT the sound i wanted. Too "hot", too clean, too chimey, reverb was too deep (like someone singing in the shower behind closed doors) ... the distortion (as noted) sounded like poopoo, and it had a bunch of cheap parts inside that kept breaking and costing me money.

You know I tried out a Hot Rod Deluxe and hated it too (the overdrive sounds like someone hit a Rat with a hammer, and not in a good way), but the Blues Deluxe is great.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

I'd also be curious what this sounds like (Bugera 6260 120w 2x12 4-6L6 Combo Amp, by Behringer) ... i have no idea if it is good (i suspect it probably fails at either cleans or "good" gain, but it has promise at $600) ...

A former bandmate of mine had a Bugera--not very good.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

PS -

You can also probably pretty easily score some sort of 1x12 Combo Mesaboogie for <$600 ... you'd have to do your homework to get one that had that blend of amazing clean & killer gain though. I mean, you'd have to find one that gave you the clean tone you wanted, lol ... cuz they all seem to be just fine in the gain department.

I always thought Mesas would be too expensive, but a quick eBay search shows I might be able to get a used one pretty cheap, good idea.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

Uh.
Your profile says you are in high school and have seen like 5 shows all in the bay area, so i'm assuming you live near San Fran?

The internet is a scary thing.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

YOU NEED THIS:
Hi-Watt Clone - $650

yes yes yes!
on youtube sounding like sexbutter

Oh man, that's beyond awesome, but I'd rather not deal with a head/cab situation.

I'm going to start looking into used Mesas more. Thanks.

i would trade my gear setup reservations for that HiWatt clone without blinking.

You can't go wrong with a mesa (imho), but you said previously you wanted something simpler than a Tweaker, and i think most Mesas, while not having switches-for-switches redundancy, certainly are a bit more complicated than a "regular" amp, both externally and internally. Just something to think about, though I think you could handle one just fine.

I will say this though ... you in all likelihood will not be running your BigMuff through a Mesa to any desired affect. IMHO, the BigMuff isn't a very good pedal for modern users and is a relic that was manufactured in a world where guitar amplifiers did not have a "gain" control (and where gain in general was LOW). I have never really owned an amp that took a BigMuff well (except for my my Egnater which is a Plexi & Bassman clone, and does not have a gain control, and breaks up really only passed 6 or 7) ... and they seem to really fail to do much good (actually they kind've suck tone) in high-gain amplifiers ...

that's just my failed-guitarist's opinion.

(if using your BigMuff is an ABSOLUTE requirement, i would probably be looking over to something like a Vox, an Orange, or, shudder, Fender, or MAYBE a HI-WATT ::winkwink:: or ... ? ... MCREADYISGOD???may want to ask back that way?)

PPPPS -
I also EXTREMELY DISCOURAGE YOU FROM PURCHASING USED GEAR ON EBAY.
Go to Craigslist LOCALLY and GO TO TRY OUT THE GEAR FIRST!

I have been burned REPEATEDLY on EBAY (edit, on EBAY, damnit):
1. Had a phaser pedal "lost by USPS" ... cost me $100
2. Had an old SG show up with a broken neck at headstock (covered by USPS insurance, but DAMN)
3. Had the "replacement" SG show up needing fret redress so bad it was unplayable passed 12th fret
4. Had a Mesa show up with "something" wrong, either a pregain tube problem or random elec. problem
5. Had a bass show up with a huge dent\nick that wasnt described, owner was like "oh, damn, sorry!"
6. Bought a guitar that i just didn't like the "tone" of when i got it. Should have played it first
7. THERE DOESN'T NEED TO BE A SEVEN, JUST DON'T DO IT.
Why it took me THAT many tries to get sick of ebay, i dunno.
But craigslist wasn't really around 10 years ago \ wasn't good for music equipment.

PPPPPPS - The Pumpkins layer the fuck out of their guitars in studio,
and i don't think you will achieve their "sound" with one guitar, one amp, and one pedal.
They also use rack effects like a MOTHERFUCKER.

All Those Yesterdays · June 2012

DaveyG wrote:

I've read bad things about the durability/reliability of the Peavey Classic 30/112, as well as reports of a lot of tube rattle. They're very well-priced on eBay, but it seems like most people recommend replacing the tubes and the speaker, I'd imagine that would add up to a lot of money.

There aren't to many combos out there that don't suffer from tube rattle. I'm not a big El84 fan, but they can handle a lot of volts and take a beating. I've been around a couple guys that have played through the classic series for a long time and never had any issues. However they do take care of their stuff. Replace tubes after 80 hours or so instead of waiting for tubes to fail.

DaveyG · June 2012

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

You can't go wrong with a mesa (imho), but you said previously you wanted something simpler than a Tweaker, and i think most Mesas, while not having switches-for-switches redundancy, certainly are a bit more complicated than a "regular" amp, both externally and internally. Just something to think about, though I think you could handle one just fine.

I was looking at Dual Calibers, which seem very simplistic besides the EQ which I could probably learn to use.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

I will say this though ... you in all likelihood will not be running your BigMuff through a Mesa to any desired affect. IMHO, the BigMuff isn't a very good pedal for modern users and is a relic that was manufactured in a world where guitar amplifiers did not have a "gain" control (and where gain in general was LOW). I have never really owned an amp that took a BigMuff well (except for my my Egnater which is a Plexi & Bassman clone, and does not have a gain control, and breaks up really only passed 6 or 7) ... and they seem to really fail to do much good (actually they kind've suck tone) in high-gain amplifiers ...

(if using your BigMuff is an ABSOLUTE requirement, i would probably be looking over to something like a Vox, an Orange, or, shudder, Fender, or MAYBE a HI-WATT ::winkwink:: or ... ? ... MCREADYISGOD???may want to ask back that way?)

Hmmm...do you know of any fuzz pedals that work well with modern amps such as Mesas? Stomp Under Foot Pumpkin Pi? Skreddy Mayo? Way Huge Swollen Pickle?

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

PPPPS -
I also EXTREMELY DISCOURAGE YOU FROM PURCHASING USED GEAR ON EBAY.
Go to Craigslist LOCALLY and GO TO TRY OUT THE GEAR FIRST!

I have been burned REPEATEDLY on EBAY (edit, on EBAY, damnit):
1. Had a phaser pedal "lost by USPS" ... cost me $100
2. Had an old SG show up with a broken neck at headstock (covered by USPS insurance, but DAMN)
3. Had the "replacement" SG show up needing fret redress so bad it was unplayable passed 12th fret
4. Had a Mesa show up with "something" wrong, either a pregain tube problem or random elec. problem
5. Had a bass show up with a huge dent\nick that wasnt described, owner was like "oh, damn, sorry!"
6. Bought a guitar that i just didn't like the "tone" of when i got it. Should have played it first
7. THERE DOESN'T NEED TO BE A SEVEN, JUST DON'T DO IT.
Why it took me THAT many tries to get sick of ebay, i dunno.
But craigslist wasn't really around 10 years ago \ wasn't good for music equipment.

Yeah, I wasn't planning on it, I just needed a price reference point.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

PPPPPPS - The Pumpkins layer the fuck out of their guitars in studio,
and i don't think you will achieve their "sound" with one guitar, one amp, and one pedal.
They also use rack effects like a MOTHERFUCKER.

I'm not looking to duplicate their sound, I just really like how the Big Muff sounds (even with my solid state).

All Those Yesterdays wrote:

DaveyG wrote:

I've read bad things about the durability/reliability of the Peavey Classic 30/112, as well as reports of a lot of tube rattle. They're very well-priced on eBay, but it seems like most people recommend replacing the tubes and the speaker, I'd imagine that would add up to a lot of money.

There aren't to many combos out there that don't suffer from tube rattle. I'm not a big El84 fan, but they can handle a lot of volts and take a beating. I've been around a couple guys that have played through the classic series for a long time and never had any issues. However they do take care of their stuff. Replace tubes after 80 hours or so instead of waiting for tubes to fail.

I'll keep it on the list then.

dogfootblues · June 2012

Ive had my Fender Blues Deluxe for a year now. Im in love with it. Its a serious amp that you can stack with a matching cab when the time comes. Check out some YouTube demos.

Pacomc79 · June 2012

search used Mesa F50's too. 6L6 compliment I believe.

DriftingByTheStorm · June 2012

DaveyG wrote:

I was looking at Dual Calibers, which seem very simplistic besides the EQ which I could probably learn to use.

Yeah, the DC's actually aren't that complicated, all though between the EQ faders and the tone knobs over two channels you definitely have a enough to keep you playing around (but its not a Tweaker, right?) ... I actually owned one of these a few years ago. My first foray in to Mesas, cuz i grabbed a combo for cheap. I'm not sure I noticed, even though ATYesterdays states that ALL comobos do, that this amp suffered from tube rattle. Maybe it did. I was a little put off by the general sound of it though. Certainly it was crunchy as HELL, and the clean was more than decent ... but to me it always had this sort of airy\spacey tone ... something i probably can't describe\communicate properly ... but it always sounded like the tone was coming from another room or something. It wasn't just a weird reverb effect, it seemed to always be present. But trying to remember what an old amp sounded like is kind've hard. lol.

DaveyG wrote:

Hmmm...do you know of any fuzz pedals that work well with modern amps such as Mesas? Stomp Under Foot Pumpkin Pi? Skreddy Mayo? Way Huge Swollen Pickle?

Ok, so I have to plead ignorant to any first hand knowledge of ANY other fuzz pedals, cuz i pretty much gave up on them after realizing that my issue with fuzz (in all likelyhood) stems fundamentally from the nature of "fuzz" itself. [although I do still want something like a UFO Octavefuzz or such]

Try reading through these, because you will get the sense that I'm not just some fuzz-hater, but that this is a truth.

TheGearPageForum: Fuzz Pedals w\ Modern Amps?

TheGearPageForum: Fuzz That Works Well W\ High Gain Amps \ Humbuckers ?

See posts like this:

somedude wrote:

Never found a fuzz that works through a high gain amps high gain channel.... but if you have a clean channel they should work alright.

and

jazzguitarplay wrote:

it seems like you NEED a strat through a Fender to make a fuzz be baddazz

and, also take note of the "disclaimer" at the top of AnalogMan's page [sidenote: i have an analogman tubescreamer, and love it ... it also does "fuzz" to reasonable effect, imho]

Clearly the Smashing Pumpkins have figured out a way to use the Big Muff with a high gain amp, because from what i can see reading about their sound it looks like at SOME point they MUST have used that Big Muff through a JCM800 ... although that amp has a clean channel and some headroom so they might be using it more or less clean (and certainly that is inline with most of the suggestions i see regarding such a scenario on those forum posts).

The fact that the Big Muff has "sustain" added IN TO the sound of the pedal doesn't help its case in my book for use with high gain amplification (which functions as "sustain" in its own competing way).

Also note the following from the Pumpkin Pi description:
"This updated op-amp fuzz has a full tone great on its own or pushing a slightly dirty amp."
See. Even MODERN fuzz makers seem to tell you straight up, they are meant for pushing CLEAN tones (or "slightly dirty"), not high-gain.

On a tangent:
that HiWatt clone (which is a Weber Kit! ! !) is still for sale ...
and i REALLY think that would be a perfect amp \ tone wise \ for what you are asking to achieve.
I did NOT like it so much when Ed was using one, cuz i'm not sure that is so much the PEARL JAM sound ... but i do really like those amp tones in general. I know, i know ... you don't want a head \ cabinet dilly dally. :( :( :(

and ps - i would still caution against getting a Mesa if using the Big Muff is a huge requirement ...
at least, i wouldn't purchase one without bringing your Big Muff and guitar and using it through the CLEAN channel. Just saying!

[edit] pps - oh and forgot to say, minus a hiwatt, the tonal qualities you are seeking and the compatibility with pedals \ versatility of sound you are seeking actually makes me think you may indeed want some sort of Fender amp, although I don't have enough experience with them to know which one specifically. But generally, a Fender would give you that clean to mild-break-up sounds (for your Death Cab & Modest Mouse tones) and the ability to add pedals for more gain\break up &\or fuzz to get a sound approaching "modern".

something like this? Fender Supersonic 112 - $670

mccreadyisgod · June 2012

Wow, how did I not think of a Fender Supersonic? That's the ideal amp for the OP, and I totally spaced it. Then again, I didn't realize the resale had dropped this low yet. But that amp really hits all the major categories from the original post. Some of the small 1x12 Mesa combos that have been mentioned are also a good line to follow.

Also, Big Muff is almost always put in front of a clean amp, or the clean channel of a switcher. I only use single-channel amps, so I've never had a problem with them, but I forget that some folks use preamp gain. Distortion-on-distortion effects can be tricky to begin with, and the Big Muff isn't known for playing well with others.

It's also worth noting that combo amps have two specific challenges that head-and-cab amps can escape. 1) Combo amps are pretty much always open-back, so the amplifier chassis can get air circulation for cooling. Open-back cabs are known for more presence and less low-end, plus a lack of focus specifically on bass frequencies. They can be better for mic'ing, since you can adjust the low-end and presence by managing proximity response from the mic. But they usually don't sound as "full" in the room. This can be fixed by adding an extension cab that is sealed, but then you're back to traveling with a 2-piece amp setup. Then again, you can take or leave the ext. cab as you feel like it. 2) Tubes are physically attached to the same cabinet that the speaker is, so they get rattled by the movement of the speaker cone. Head-and-cab amps will get some vibration from the cab if the amp is sitting on top of the cab, but it's not as bad as in a combo. Also, you can set the head somewhere besides the top of the cab (some pros and purists do this).

keeponrockin · June 2012

Traynor YCS50 is a great amp, I picked up mine for 600, 50 watts, switchable down to 15 (where I play it 99% of the time).

DaveyG · June 2012

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

DaveyG wrote:

I was looking at Dual Calibers, which seem very simplistic besides the EQ which I could probably learn to use.

Yeah, the DC's actually aren't that complicated, all though between the EQ faders and the tone knobs over two channels you definitely have a enough to keep you playing around (but its not a Tweaker, right?) ... I actually owned one of these a few years ago. My first foray in to Mesas, cuz i grabbed a combo for cheap. I'm not sure I noticed, even though ATYesterdays states that ALL comobos do, that this amp suffered from tube rattle. Maybe it did. I was a little put off by the general sound of it though. Certainly it was crunchy as HELL, and the clean was more than decent ... but to me it always had this sort of airy\spacey tone ... something i probably can't describe\communicate properly ... but it always sounded like the tone was coming from another room or something. It wasn't just a weird reverb effect, it seemed to always be present. But trying to remember what an old amp sounded like is kind've hard. lol.

DaveyG wrote:

Hmmm...do you know of any fuzz pedals that work well with modern amps such as Mesas? Stomp Under Foot Pumpkin Pi? Skreddy Mayo? Way Huge Swollen Pickle?

Ok, so I have to plead ignorant to any first hand knowledge of ANY other fuzz pedals, cuz i pretty much gave up on them after realizing that my issue with fuzz (in all likelyhood) stems fundamentally from the nature of "fuzz" itself. [although I do still want something like a UFO Octavefuzz or such]

Try reading through these, because you will get the sense that I'm not just some fuzz-hater, but that this is a truth.

TheGearPageForum: Fuzz Pedals w\ Modern Amps?

TheGearPageForum: Fuzz That Works Well W\ High Gain Amps \ Humbuckers ?

See posts like this:

somedude wrote:

Never found a fuzz that works through a high gain amps high gain channel.... but if you have a clean channel they should work alright.

and

jazzguitarplay wrote:

it seems like you NEED a strat through a Fender to make a fuzz be baddazz

and, also take note of the "disclaimer" at the top of AnalogMan's page [sidenote: i have an analogman tubescreamer, and love it ... it also does "fuzz" to reasonable effect, imho]

Clearly the Smashing Pumpkins have figured out a way to use the Big Muff with a high gain amp, because from what i can see reading about their sound it looks like at SOME point they MUST have used that Big Muff through a JCM800 ... although that amp has a clean channel and some headroom so they might be using it more or less clean (and certainly that is inline with most of the suggestions i see regarding such a scenario on those forum posts).

The fact that the Big Muff has "sustain" added IN TO the sound of the pedal doesn't help its case in my book for use with high gain amplification (which functions as "sustain" in its own competing way).

Also note the following from the Pumpkin Pi description:
"This updated op-amp fuzz has a full tone great on its own or pushing a slightly dirty amp."
See. Even MODERN fuzz makers seem to tell you straight up, they are meant for pushing CLEAN tones (or "slightly dirty"), not high-gain.

On a tangent:
that HiWatt clone (which is a Weber Kit! ! !) is still for sale ...
and i REALLY think that would be a perfect amp \ tone wise \ for what you are asking to achieve.
I did NOT like it so much when Ed was using one, cuz i'm not sure that is so much the PEARL JAM sound ... but i do really like those amp tones in general. I know, i know ... you don't want a head \ cabinet dilly dally. :( :( :(

and ps - i would still caution against getting a Mesa if using the Big Muff is a huge requirement ...
at least, i wouldn't purchase one without bringing your Big Muff and guitar and using it through the CLEAN channel. Just saying!

I wasn't even aware that people used fuzzes into not-clean amps, I've always used the clean channel on my amp with my Big Muff.

DriftingByTheStorm wrote:

[edit] pps - oh and forgot to say, minus a hiwatt, the tonal qualities you are seeking and the compatibility with pedals \ versatility of sound you are seeking actually makes me think you may indeed want some sort of Fender amp, although I don't have enough experience with them to know which one specifically. But generally, a Fender would give you that clean to mild-break-up sounds (for your Death Cab & Modest Mouse tones) and the ability to add pedals for more gain\break up &\or fuzz to get a sound approaching "modern".

something like this? Fender Supersonic 112 - $670

I just saw that the other day, it looks pretty great.

keeponrockin wrote:

Traynor YCS50 is a great amp, I picked up mine for 600, 50 watts, switchable down to 15 (where I play it 99% of the time).

I'll check it out.

All Those Yesterdays · June 2012

Big Muff through distorted amp refer to Dan Auerbach of The Black Keys....

In Search Of A New Amplifier

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