Did GOP Deliberately Crash the US Economy??

brianlux

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

my idea to get a small number of people back to work immediately.
1. get rid of those damn self check out lanes at the store. pay a human being to do that job.
2. large companies like insurance and utility companies should pay human beings to answer the phone and act as operators and get rid of those stupid automated answering robots.
3. approve infrastructure projects and get people hired on to work on those projects.

I LIKE these ideas a lot! I refuse to use the self check-out lanes. To a certain degree some of the automation in our world is useful but we've gone too far with it- the cost in terms of jobs and loss of sense of community has been huge. And let's face it- the only people who like automated answering robots are the corporate heads who are (as one of my aunts used to say) "squeezing yet another goddamned dime out of us".

I think we need to do a little job shifting as well. Instead of a road crew 11 guys standing around having coffee while one guy (or lady) runs a backhoe, how about one guy running backhoe, one guy there as back up and 10 guys installing solar panels on government and public buildings?

peacefrompaul

brianlux wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

my idea to get a small number of people back to work immediately.
1. get rid of those damn self check out lanes at the store. pay a human being to do that job.
2. large companies like insurance and utility companies should pay human beings to answer the phone and act as operators and get rid of those stupid automated answering robots.
3. approve infrastructure projects and get people hired on to work on those projects.

I LIKE these ideas a lot! I refuse to use the self check-out lanes. To a certain degree some of the automation in our world is useful but we've gone too far with it- the cost in terms of jobs and loss of sense of community has been huge. And let's face it- the only people who like automated answering robots are the corporate heads who are (as one of my aunts used to say) "squeezing yet another goddamned dime out of us".

I think we need to do a little job shifting as well. Instead of a road crew 11 guys standing around having coffee while one guy (or lady) runs a backhoe, how about one guy running backhoe, one guy there as back up and 10 guys installing solar panels on government and public buildings?

Those self help lanes suck, I usually stumble when I use them.... I usually just don't use them at all because I hate them. I'm pretty sure it takes longer than going to a register, for me anyway. I certainly wouldn't shed a single tear if those things were gone.

I also agree on the road crew idea. I once saw two dudes standing over a manhole while one guy went down.... Just sitting and having a few smokes... I doubt that is efficient at all.

mikepegg44

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

yes, we do have to cut spending. we have to cut it from all areas, including cutting the military and cutting the $4 billion we are giving to israel this year. in the end it does not matter what obama wants to do because the republicans are going to oppose it. no matter what he proposes he has a majority against him in the house and 49 votes against in the senate automatically. they are going to make him a lame duck because in an election year nobody wants to vote for any controversial bills because that is the last thing the voters will remember when going into the ballot box.

dick cheney said deficits did not matter. that became the gop mantra relating to budgets. when did the mantra change?? we have to increase revenue as well. you can not just cut your way to prosperity. people in credit card debt, what do they do? they 1) stop using the card and 2) find ways to increase revenue to pay off that debt. it is a simple mathematical solution.

to answer your question, no the road we are on is not sustainable. trillions spent on war, billions out of the government via tax cuts, billions out of the economy because people can not find jobs and can not afford things like gas, groceries, and people are not buying things like home improvement. they are sitting on their money. they are hoarding it. they are not stimulating the economy because they do not have that spending money.

we have spent our way out of debt before. after world war 2 we built homes for returning soldiers and the resulting baby boom. we built highways and bridges and put people to work working on government projects. the difference between then and now is that back then we actually had factories and acutally manufactured things in this country. today those jobs are overseas and they ain't coming back.

my idea to get a small number of people back to work immediately.
1. get rid of those damn self check out lanes at the store. pay a human being to do that job.
2. large companies like insurance and utility companies should pay human beings to answer the phone and act as operators and get rid of those stupid automated answering robots.
3. approve infrastructure projects and get people hired on to work on those projects.

these are just 3 ideas off the top of my head, but at least it is a start.

and to answer your other question, no, government spending is not the only way out of it. the government needs to spend that money in the correct manner. invest it in our infrastructure. not in researching and developing stealth battleships and stealth planes and weapons of war like bombs and guns and missiles that cost billions and when they blow up that is a billion dollars up in smoke. also, other countries could not afford to buy some of the things we are building now, so there would be nobody buying it aside from our own military.

yes irresponsible government is causing those problems in europe, but i can guarantee that those countries do not have entire political parties opposing their leader just for the sake of being a dick and to make him/her look bad politically.

what is going on in this country today is an absolute joke.

mikepegg44 wrote:

yep I did.

I have heard it all before. Shrinking federal spending is the only way we are going to succeed in the future. When you hybridize the philosophies and spend what you don't have, you tax people with inflation. There really is a lot of money changing hands in our economy...10 years ago it would have been plenty...but what we are seeing is the result of a constant inflation of the dollar.

So no, there isn't only one way to get out of a crisis...one might make it worse in the short term, but long term we will be much better off. Constantly trying to fix the short term has us chasing a dragon.

Do you think that the road we are on is sustainable and will keep the dollar as the reserve currency for the world economy? which is pretty important I might add

I read the article, my question to you is, do you believe the article's premise and do you believe the only way out of this is gov't spending?

why are European nations with higher tax rates and smaller populations facing some of the same issues...could it be irresponsible gov't?

I agree with a lot of what you said.

But paying someone to dig a ditch and then someone else to fill it in is not good policy. Infrastructure projects go on every summer. I don't know about where you are, but Minneapolis alone has about 30 projects going on right now.

All of the things that people talk about fixing the problem are the reason we are where we are at. NO ONE in government for the last 40 years has given a shit about the value of the dollar. They have expected wages to keep up with inflation but that was never going to be possible. So you start trying with what you know...throw money at it...and then it gets worse. Big surprise.

When Clinton said the age of big government was over it was a turning point for the country. Bush II made that an after thought with not only unnecessary war spending but also unnecessary program and department creation and Obama has followed suit.

It is sad for me that people think the government action is the only way out of this problem. It isn't, and it will never be the be all end all. Creating legislation that makes hiring more attractive to the private sector is a good way to get people working. Paying money they don't have so people can fill ditches is not a good idea. It is like the school nurse trying to treat cancer. Sure they might be able to give you some tylenol, maybe even make you feel better for a day...but you are going to die from it eventually. That is where we are going. Something needs to change. So people talk about government solving the problems with programs...how do you pay for those? raise taxes, taking money from people who have earned it, whether you agree with how they earned it is not under review. Tax reform is necessary however. And i think that would help.
I have said it a million times...if we damn near doubled tax revenue today we would still run a deficit. there is something wrong with that...

At what point does standing on principle mean that you are deliberately trying to sabotage the country?

As for what is going on is an absolute joke, I completely agree. But I think we disagree on what the joke part is...I happen to think it is a joke to think the government that put us on this terrible road is going to be able to fix it with the same policies.

mikepegg44

pjhawks wrote:

i don't say they are sabotaging the economy on purpose, but i do believe they are sabotaging the 1st black president in the history of the country on purpose. and i do believe that race plays a part of it.

Is this belief based on anything that is fact, or is it just what you think of Republicans in office? That they are all racist. That is quite the claim

EdsonNascimento

brianlux wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

my idea to get a small number of people back to work immediately.
1. get rid of those damn self check out lanes at the store. pay a human being to do that job.
2. large companies like insurance and utility companies should pay human beings to answer the phone and act as operators and get rid of those stupid automated answering robots.
3. approve infrastructure projects and get people hired on to work on those projects.

I LIKE these ideas a lot! I refuse to use the self check-out lanes. To a certain degree some of the automation in our world is useful but we've gone too far with it- the cost in terms of jobs and loss of sense of community has been huge. And let's face it- the only people who like automated answering robots are the corporate heads who are (as one of my aunts used to say) "squeezing yet another goddamned dime out of us".

I think we need to do a little job shifting as well. Instead of a road crew 11 guys standing around having coffee while one guy (or lady) runs a backhoe, how about one guy running backhoe, one guy there as back up and 10 guys installing solar panels on government and public buildings?

This stuff is funny. Not only do you guys want to have non-recurring, non-generating salaries (point 3), you want us to decrease the use of technology and effeciency so folks can have un-needed jobs. How 'bout folks train themselves for the "new" (funny stuff) economy? Those self-check things where you take the scanner around as you put groceries in your bag in carts are such a time saver. Yes, they mess up from time to time, but 1 employee can service 4 lines. That's how you keep food prices down(for example).

As for point 2 - well, that's a company by company thing. Some companies outsource. Some companies automate. Others have great customer service. I never get a computer when I call Directv or Bose. Always someone from the US. 2 of the best customer service experiences I have. I try not to use companies that automate or outsource. Not because I'm against it philosophically. But, because it ends up being crappy cook book customer service. Most of who's recommendations I've either tried before I called or my 4 year old could figure out. That's why competition is a good thing. If there were alternatives, I wouldn't use these types of companies. But guess what? They seem to exist where either the entire industry does it, or there's little competition. Forcing it by Governmental decree is stupid. If you are a top notch customer service person, I'd imagine Directv and Bose are always looking for good people.

Get eductated in things that have value to the others and the economy, and be willing to go out and get it. We should feel entitled to nothing other than life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

brianlux

EdsonNascimento wrote:

brianlux wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

my idea to get a small number of people back to work immediately.
1. get rid of those damn self check out lanes at the store. pay a human being to do that job.
2. large companies like insurance and utility companies should pay human beings to answer the phone and act as operators and get rid of those stupid automated answering robots.
3. approve infrastructure projects and get people hired on to work on those projects.

I LIKE these ideas a lot! I refuse to use the self check-out lanes. To a certain degree some of the automation in our world is useful but we've gone too far with it- the cost in terms of jobs and loss of sense of community has been huge. And let's face it- the only people who like automated answering robots are the corporate heads who are (as one of my aunts used to say) "squeezing yet another goddamned dime out of us".

I think we need to do a little job shifting as well. Instead of a road crew 11 guys standing around having coffee while one guy (or lady) runs a backhoe, how about one guy running backhoe, one guy there as back up and 10 guys installing solar panels on government and public buildings?

This stuff is funny. Not only do you guys want to have non-recurring, non-generating salaries (point 3), you want us to decrease the use of technology and effeciency so folks can have un-needed jobs. How 'bout folks train themselves for the "new" (funny stuff) economy? Those self-check things where you take the scanner around as you put groceries in your bag in carts are such a time saver. Yes, they mess up from time to time, but 1 employee can service 4 lines. That's how you keep food prices down(for example).

As for point 2 - well, that's a company by company thing. Some companies outsource. Some companies automate. Others have great customer service. I never get a computer when I call Directv or Bose. Always someone from the US. 2 of the best customer service experiences I have. I try not to use companies that automate or outsource. Not because I'm against it philosophically. But, because it ends up being crappy cook book customer service. Most of who's recommendations I've either tried before I called or my 4 year old could figure out. That's why competition is a good thing. If there were alternatives, I wouldn't use these types of companies. But guess what? They seem to exist where either the entire industry does it, or there's little competition. Forcing it by Governmental decree is stupid. If you are a top notch customer service person, I'd imagine Directv and Bose are always looking for good people.

Get eductated in things that have value to the others and the economy, and be willing to go out and get it. We should feel entitled to nothing other than life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

"Eductated". Freudian slip, my friend? (Sorry- couldn't resist.)

I notice you didn't address my point about creating jobs that are useful and good for the planet as well. Does that not make at least some sense?

markin ball

EdsonNascimento wrote:

brianlux wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

my idea to get a small number of people back to work immediately.
1. get rid of those damn self check out lanes at the store. pay a human being to do that job.
2. large companies like insurance and utility companies should pay human beings to answer the phone and act as operators and get rid of those stupid automated answering robots.
3. approve infrastructure projects and get people hired on to work on those projects.

I LIKE these ideas a lot! I refuse to use the self check-out lanes. To a certain degree some of the automation in our world is useful but we've gone too far with it- the cost in terms of jobs and loss of sense of community has been huge. And let's face it- the only people who like automated answering robots are the corporate heads who are (as one of my aunts used to say) "squeezing yet another goddamned dime out of us".

I think we need to do a little job shifting as well. Instead of a road crew 11 guys standing around having coffee while one guy (or lady) runs a backhoe, how about one guy running backhoe, one guy there as back up and 10 guys installing solar panels on government and public buildings?

This stuff is funny. Not only do you guys want to have non-recurring, non-generating salaries (point 3), you want us to decrease the use of technology and effeciency so folks can have un-needed jobs. How 'bout folks train themselves for the "new" (funny stuff) economy? Those self-check things where you take the scanner around as you put groceries in your bag in carts are such a time saver. Yes, they mess up from time to time, but 1 employee can service 4 lines. That's how you keep food prices down(for example).

As for point 2 - well, that's a company by company thing. Some companies outsource. Some companies automate. Others have great customer service. I never get a computer when I call Directv or Bose. Always someone from the US. 2 of the best customer service experiences I have. I try not to use companies that automate or outsource. Not because I'm against it philosophically. But, because it ends up being crappy cook book customer service. Most of who's recommendations I've either tried before I called or my 4 year old could figure out. That's why competition is a good thing. If there were alternatives, I wouldn't use these types of companies. But guess what? They seem to exist where either the entire industry does it, or there's little competition. Forcing it by Governmental decree is stupid. If you are a top notch customer service person, I'd imagine Directv and Bose are always looking for good people.

Get eductated in things that have value to the others and the economy, and be willing to go out and get it. We should feel entitled to nothing other than life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I agree with much of what you are saying here, but I would say grocery stores put in the auto check-outs to make more profit. Pricing is generally determined by what the market will bear. On a tangent note, it appears that the market appears to be saying it doesn't appreciate the auto check-outs so much anymore. The Von's stores in my area are removing them.

Johnny Abruzzo

mikepegg44 wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

I've been saying this for years. I think it's quite obvious and Repubs have just about plainly stated that this is their strategy; thus the McConnell quote.

It's been proven over and over and over that tax cuts for the rich do not help generate jobs. When will you wingnuts learn? :roll:

what is the right number that someone else should pay? That of course is assuming you do not belong to the top tax bracket.

If you do belong to it, can I have a job?

Signed,

a wingnut who believes that people should keep the vast majority of the money they earn.

When the top tax rate was 39% and we weren't fighting trillion dollar wars we had the budget balanced. So I guess it should be back to what it was before 2001 and cut unnecessary military spending then that should do the trick, right?

Jason P

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

When the top tax rate was 39% and we weren't fighting trillion dollar wars we had the budget balanced. So I guess it should be back to what it was before 2001 and cut unnecessary military spending then that should do the trick, right?

That's the key part. They need to show me they can cut spending first. I don't care what it is, just show me it's possible.

peacefrompaul

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

mikepegg44 wrote:

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

I've been saying this for years. I think it's quite obvious and Repubs have just about plainly stated that this is their strategy; thus the McConnell quote.

It's been proven over and over and over that tax cuts for the rich do not help generate jobs. When will you wingnuts learn? :roll:

what is the right number that someone else should pay? That of course is assuming you do not belong to the top tax bracket.

If you do belong to it, can I have a job?

Signed,

a wingnut who believes that people should keep the vast majority of the money they earn.

When the top tax rate was 39% and we weren't fighting trillion dollar wars we had the budget balanced. So I guess it should be back to what it was before 2001 and cut unnecessary military spending then that should do the trick, right?

Simply bringing the troops home and cutting out the drone strikes that kill civilians should help. That's a good start

gimmesometruth27

i'm not gonna reply to all of this, but i am going to make one point. human beings working jobs as baggers and checkers can actually increase business if they build rapport with customers and take care of those customers. those workers can be the difference between customers going to that store or driving to the one down the street. these people can help increase revenue, which is more than what some stupid impersonal computer can do. honestly, why would people go through the trouble of scanning the stuff themselves, trying to figure out how to pay, and then bagging all of that stuff and then putting it back into the cart to move it out to the car? service is completely underrated. if a person can get me through a checkout line fast and be very nice and personable, i am much more willing to shop there than somewhere where the staff are jerks. customer service, provided by people to people, will improve business even if it creates more overhead. there are reams of data to support this. customer service is an art, and people who are good at it do very well, and in turn, their bosses' bottom line improves.

you can laugh at my suggestions all you want, but if you look at the data you will see that creating jobs like this actually would help the economy.

EdsonNascimento wrote:

This stuff is funny. Not only do you guys want to have non-recurring, non-generating salaries (point 3), you want us to decrease the use of technology and effeciency so folks can have un-needed jobs. How 'bout folks train themselves for the "new" (funny stuff) economy? Those self-check things where you take the scanner around as you put groceries in your bag in carts are such a time saver. Yes, they mess up from time to time, but 1 employee can service 4 lines. That's how you keep food prices down(for example).

As for point 2 - well, that's a company by company thing. Some companies outsource. Some companies automate. Others have great customer service. I never get a computer when I call Directv or Bose. Always someone from the US. 2 of the best customer service experiences I have. I try not to use companies that automate or outsource. Not because I'm against it philosophically. But, because it ends up being crappy cook book customer service. Most of who's recommendations I've either tried before I called or my 4 year old could figure out. That's why competition is a good thing. If there were alternatives, I wouldn't use these types of companies. But guess what? They seem to exist where either the entire industry does it, or there's little competition. Forcing it by Governmental decree is stupid. If you are a top notch customer service person, I'd imagine Directv and Bose are always looking for good people.

Get eductated in things that have value to the others and the economy, and be willing to go out and get it. We should feel entitled to nothing other than life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

gimmesometruth27

i shall answer each point in red...

mikepegg44 wrote:

I agree with a lot of what you said.

But paying someone to dig a ditch and then someone else to fill it in is not good policy. Infrastructure projects go on every summer. I don't know about where you are, but Minneapolis alone has about 30 projects going on right now. what are you referring to when you say "infrastructure projects? i am referring to repairing our crumbling roads, widening roads, rebuilding bridges and overpasses to make them not only more sound, but more efficient so that gridlock is avoided and less traffic, which would cause less idling of engines and less burning of fossil fuels and less pollution. we are building a bridge across the mississippi river now that has been years in the planning. we are rebuilding overpasses and bridges and we have more roadworkers employed now than at any time in the last 10 years. i am also talking about things like what my city is doing. they have hired a company to come in and trim trees away from powerlines so that the trees do not fall on them and cause massive outages. some cities here are burying the powerlines. it has greated a lot of jobs,

All of the things that people talk about fixing the problem are the reason we are where we are at. NO ONE in government for the last 40 years has given a shit about the value of the dollar. They have expected wages to keep up with inflation but that was never going to be possible. So you start trying with what you know...throw money at it...and then it gets worse. Big surprise. how do we keep inflation down and wages up? i would like to hear it so i can tell my congressman.

When Clinton said the age of big government was over it was a turning point for the country. Bush II made that an after thought with not only unnecessary war spending but also unnecessary program and department creation and Obama has followed suit. we can point fingers and blame bush II and obama untile we are blue in the face. the fact is that shit has happened. how do we go forward and fix it? i am not buying that "job creators need tax incentives" tired argument that has ben going on forever. "job creators" have had 10 years of bush incentives, so where are the jobs??

It is sad for me that people think the government action is the only way out of this problem. It isn't, and it will never be the be all end all. Creating legislation that makes hiring more attractive to the private sector is a good way to get people working. Paying money they don't have so people can fill ditches is not a good idea. It is like the school nurse trying to treat cancer. Sure they might be able to give you some tylenol, maybe even make you feel better for a day...but you are going to die from it eventually. That is where we are going. Something needs to change. So people talk about government solving the problems with programs...how do you pay for those? raise taxes, taking money from people who have earned it, whether you agree with how they earned it is not under review. Tax reform is necessary however. And i think that would help.
I have said it a million times...if we damn near doubled tax revenue today we would still run a deficit. there is something wrong with that... i am convinced that taxes are going to have to be raised if we are going to get out of this. where in history has any government balanced a budget by cutting spending only? it is mathematically impossible, and if we cut all programs immediately it would be such a shock to the system that you are going to have millions of people suddenly cut off from health insurance, millions cut off from welfare, millions of students trying to learn at underfunded schools, and the list goes on. spending can not be cut immediately, but taxes can be raised immediately and it would have an immediate effect on the deficit. if we cut the deficit in half, wouldn't that be a better thing than what we have now? if we cut it by half each year by several years we can get there eventually, but we can not cut all of that spending immediately and expect millions of people not to be affected by it.

At what point does standing on principle mean that you are deliberately trying to sabotage the country? it means that you are trying to sabotage the economy when there are votes that you can make that will spur the economy, but you don't vote for it because it might make the black guy look like he knows what he is doing. it is sabotaging the economy when people refuse to compromise and claim "standing on principle" when those principles were completely ignored, and even abandoned when your guy was in the white house? what the republicans are doing, playing the fiddle while the economy crashes is dickish at best, and treason at worst, because betraying your country to make the president look bad is just as bad as what nero did.

As for what is going on is an absolute joke, I completely agree. But I think we disagree on what the joke part is...I happen to think it is a joke to think the government that put us on this terrible road is going to be able to fix it with the same policies.

what policies that are the "same" are you speaking of? tax increases along with spending cuts is not the same old tactic.

brianlux

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i'm not gonna reply to all of this, but i am going to make one point. human beings working jobs as baggers and checkers can actually increase business if they build rapport with customers and take care of those customers. those workers can be the difference between customers going to that store or driving to the one down the street. these people can help increase revenue, which is more than what some stupid impersonal computer can do. honestly, why would people go through the trouble of scanning the stuff themselves, trying to figure out how to pay, and then bagging all of that stuff and then putting it back into the cart to move it out to the car? service is completely underrated. if a person can get me through a checkout line fast and be very nice and personable, i am much more willing to shop there than somewhere where the staff are jerks. customer service, provided by people to people, will improve business even if it creates more overhead. there are reams of data to support this. customer service is an art, and people who are good at it do very well, and in turn, their bosses' bottom line improves.

you can laugh at my suggestions all you want, but if you look at the data you will see that creating jobs like this actually would help the economy.

Absolutely correct. Customer service is a huge part of why my wife (with my help and others) has been able to keep her bookstore open in a time when most have closed. People like us because we're friendly and helpful. Besides, it's very difficult to create a sense of community with machines.

Johnny Abruzzo

I'm kinda following this thread, not totally.

But, regarding the self-checkout lanes, I've pretty much abandoned all stores that have that shit, instead going to my local meat shop, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Wegmans & Costco for the most part. I don't think it's a coincidence that these big supermarket companies like Safeway & Albertson's are struggling. (Safeway acquired a local Phila supermarket chain called Genuardi's about 10 years ago and practically destroyed the name, finally selling it off after closing over half of the stores.) Their cost cutting strategies are not working. Most people don't want to check themselves out - they want to talk to a real person and perhaps have somebody bag their groceries, and maybe run through a dummy store card if they forget theirs. This self checkout thing is another symptom of corporate America's stupid short-term thinking, along with outsourcing and computer customer service.

EdsonNascimento

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i'm not gonna reply to all of this, but i am going to make one point. human beings working jobs as baggers and checkers can actually increase business if they build rapport with customers and take care of those customers. those workers can be the difference between customers going to that store or driving to the one down the street. these people can help increase revenue, which is more than what some stupid impersonal computer can do. honestly, why would people go through the trouble of scanning the stuff themselves, trying to figure out how to pay, and then bagging all of that stuff and then putting it back into the cart to move it out to the car? service is completely underrated. if a person can get me through a checkout line fast and be very nice and personable, i am much more willing to shop there than somewhere where the staff are jerks. customer service, provided by people to people, will improve business even if it creates more overhead. there are reams of data to support this. customer service is an art, and people who are good at it do very well, and in turn, their bosses' bottom line improves.

you can laugh at my suggestions all you want, but if you look at the data you will see that creating jobs like this actually would help the economy.

I would agree with you to a point. Yes, this CAN happen. But, being blunt here, the salary you are paying those folks, you are not getting ENOUGH that it will make the difference you are talking about. This has already been decided, as most small, local grocers are out of business. Sure, the personal attention was nice. But, ultimately, price and convenience wins out. Those stores had to charge more for various reasons (not the least of which was keeping the "greeters" on the payroll and inventory issues - price, selection and quantity.).

Figure out how to pay? I think I can either slide my own card through the credit/debit machine or slip bills into the slot. Sure, the first time or 2 it was a bit trying, but now, it is so easy to have all my groceries bagged the way I like it, so I can unload easily at home. The extra time it takes to scan in the aisle myself is more than saved watching someone try to figure out how to put more than 1 thing in each bag. And if my 8 or 10 year old son is with me, they know how to use the scanner. If you need them, let me know. They are for hire.... If someone is too stupid to figure out the scan/bag/pay process, the stores have left the other lines open for them. I don't come to the store to socialize. I want out of there as quickly as possible. My time is money. I don't need to watch a high school kid (which is who takes most of those jobs anyway) scan and bag my groceries.

EdsonNascimento

Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

I'm kinda following this thread, not totally.

But, regarding the self-checkout lanes, I've pretty much abandoned all stores that have that shit, instead going to my local meat shop, Trader Joe's, Whole Foods, Wegmans & Costco for the most part. I don't think it's a coincidence that these big supermarket companies like Safeway & Albertson's are struggling. (Safeway acquired a local Phila supermarket chain called Genuardi's about 10 years ago and practically destroyed the name, finally selling it off after closing over half of the stores.) Their cost cutting strategies are not working. Most people don't want to check themselves out - they want to talk to a real person and perhaps have somebody bag their groceries, and maybe run through a dummy store card if they forget theirs. This self checkout thing is another symptom of corporate America's stupid short-term thinking, along with outsourcing and computer customer service.

Trader Joe's and Costco! :thumbup:

gimmesometruth27

EdsonNascimento wrote:

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

i'm not gonna reply to all of this, but i am going to make one point. human beings working jobs as baggers and checkers can actually increase business if they build rapport with customers and take care of those customers. those workers can be the difference between customers going to that store or driving to the one down the street. these people can help increase revenue, which is more than what some stupid impersonal computer can do. honestly, why would people go through the trouble of scanning the stuff themselves, trying to figure out how to pay, and then bagging all of that stuff and then putting it back into the cart to move it out to the car? service is completely underrated. if a person can get me through a checkout line fast and be very nice and personable, i am much more willing to shop there than somewhere where the staff are jerks. customer service, provided by people to people, will improve business even if it creates more overhead. there are reams of data to support this. customer service is an art, and people who are good at it do very well, and in turn, their bosses' bottom line improves.

you can laugh at my suggestions all you want, but if you look at the data you will see that creating jobs like this actually would help the economy.

I would agree with you to a point. Yes, this CAN happen. But, being blunt here, the salary you are paying those folks, you are not getting ENOUGH that it will make the difference you are talking about. This has already been decided, as most small, local grocers are out of business. Sure, the personal attention was nice. But, ultimately, price and convenience wins out. Those stores had to charge more for various reasons (not the least of which was keeping the "greeters" on the payroll and inventory issues - price, selection and quantity.).

Figure out how to pay? I think I can either slide my own card through the credit/debit machine or slip bills into the slot. Sure, the first time or 2 it was a bit trying, but now, it is so easy to have all my groceries bagged the way I like it, so I can unload easily at home. The extra time it takes to scan in the aisle myself is more than saved watching someone try to figure out how to put more than 1 thing in each bag. And if my 8 or 10 year old son is with me, they know how to use the scanner. If you need them, let me know. They are for hire.... If someone is too stupid to figure out the scan/bag/pay process, the stores have left the other lines open for them. I don't come to the store to socialize. I want out of there as quickly as possible. My time is money. I don't need to watch a high school kid (which is who takes most of those jobs anyway) scan and bag my groceries.

i disagree.

people on the right bitch about there being no jobs for high school kids, yet when presented with opportunity to provide them, they refuse.

just another symptom of sabotaging the economy. when romney wins all of this is going to "magically" change...

EdsonNascimento

brianlux wrote:

"Eductated". Freudian slip, my friend? (Sorry- couldn't resist.)

I notice you didn't address my point about creating jobs that are useful and good for the planet as well. Does that not make at least some sense?

Nor should you. I blame the teachers....

But, yes - I agree. I'm not a climate change person. I believe the earth has been warming/cooling for Billions of years and our impact is minimal.

However, that being said - the more we can do to clean it up, the better off we are. And, if we can create jobs that are useful and does the planet good, that's awesome. But, we have to be smart in balancing that vs. the all out assault on industry. Clearly, there's stuff we have to stop (waste dumping, etc), while others we need to be vigiant (We need more oil drilling and how can that be done intelligently). We also have to realize this all costs money, so we as individuals have to be willing to pay more for that purpose. I'm fine with that, and try to do my part where it makes sense. But, I'm also not putting solar panels on my house when it will take me 20 years to make my invetsment back and make it look ugly in the process. (but I'm also not pretending to do my part by paying others to do my Gory part).

EdsonNascimento

gimmesometruth27 wrote:

people on the right bitch about there being no jobs for high school kids, yet when presented with opportunity to provide them, they refuse.

just another symptom of sabotaging the economy. when romney wins all of this is going to "magically" change...

Please don't paint me with a right or left. Quite frankly, HS kids having jobs is the least of our issues. We need to create jobs for folks ready to enter the job market (and if that's where HS kids end up, then great, but they have to realize the limitations of that choice).

I don't get the sabotaging thing. That seems to be political speak.

We need to create lasting jobs that "recycle" money. Public works jobs (which we do need) don't do that. Mainly private sector jobs do that. Public jobs just eat tax money. Building a road does not create anything. We need the roads, so I'm not suggesting doing away with it. But, creating public works projects will not save the economy. We need real jobs that only the private sector can create. How do we do that? Obama thinks the private sector is fine relative to the public sector. To that, I say :? .

I have no idea if Romney is the proper person. Quite honestly, he's far from my choice. But, at this point, he's the only choice. Because I KNOW Obama is clueless. Anyone clinging to him is clearly doing it for either purely political right/left, liberal/conservative reasons or racial reasons (what would happen if 90% of whites voted for a particular President? Think the media would be up in arms wondering why whites are racists? Why doesn't it work the other way?) It's the economy, stupid. And this guy is wrong. Is Romney right? I have no idea. But, I've got nothing to lose (and there's no other realistic option this fall).

Even if you follow your supposition that Congress is stone walling Obama (and isn't it possible that he's wrong, and they're right?), what purpose does it serve giving him another 4 years? Wouldn't your logic carry you into a further abyss? Especially since the last mid-terms showed folks voted AGAINST Obama. Wouldn't the next mid terms just further entrench that (again, just following your logic)?

EdsonNascimento

brianlux wrote:

Absolutely correct. Customer service is a huge part of why my wife (with my help and others) has been able to keep her bookstore open in a time when most have closed. People like us because we're friendly and helpful. Besides, it's very difficult to create a sense of community with machines.

I agree with you here as well. For a book store, I seek out local ones b/c they generally have more knowledgable folks. Just like I go to local record stores. (This is not to say I have not gone to the big guys in either instance).

To me these are clearly places where the personal touch helps. Sure, when I'm picking up my new Steven King book or PJ album, I don't need help, but I appreciate the personal touch. So, I still seek out the locals when possible. I also like the physical touch of these things, so while I have bought a book or 2 on my iPad, I still go buy physical books b/c to me, there's no replacement for that. Different purposes.

Grocery store - no thanks. I do go to my local fruit market for the same rationale as above (And fresher cut stuff). But, for general groceries (Even weekly bananas, for example) - no, thanks. I can scan and bag the stuff myself.

EDIT: Sorry, forgot to make the point. The point being - those places/jobs serve purposes (At least as I as a consumer see value). If someday, I get outnumbered the other way, some folks will unfortunately need to find new ways to make a living. It may be sad, but we shouldn't FORCE it. Personal choice means just that.