The billionth AMT thread about GUN CONTROL.

2

Comments

  • ComeToTX
    ComeToTX Austin Posts: 8,073
    Johnny Abruzzo wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

    So explain why the NRA & Republicans let the Assault Weapons Ban expire.

    I don't have a problem with ordinary people keeping a handgun in their house for their own protection.

    Don't understand why people should be able to carry a gun around in public though. I like the argument about how this helps deter crime in Michigan. Did you know Detroit is in Michigan? :lol::lol::lol:

    So now you want to change the subject?

    Ok well crime is deterred when I'm allowed to carry and defend myself and not be an easy victim if I have to go to those parts.

    The law sunsetted because it was proven that crime rates did not change, plus nobody dared touch it, and nobody will now. The public is more pro gun than anti.

    Crime rates dropped in the 90s.

    A historical amount of guns have been produced and bought since Obama was elected and crime rates are rising. The drop in the 90s had more to do with a good economy.
    This show, another show, a show here and a show there.
  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    Johnny Abruzzo wrote:
    unsung wrote:
    Johnny Abruzzo wrote:

    So explain why the NRA & Republicans let the Assault Weapons Ban expire.

    I don't have a problem with ordinary people keeping a handgun in their house for their own protection.

    Don't understand why people should be able to carry a gun around in public though. I like the argument about how this helps deter crime in Michigan. Did you know Detroit is in Michigan? :lol::lol::lol:

    So now you want to change the subject?

    Ok well crime is deterred when I'm allowed to carry and defend myself and not be an easy victim if I have to go to those parts.

    The law sunsetted because it was proven that crime rates did not change, plus nobody dared touch it, and nobody will now. The public is more pro gun than anti.

    Crime rates dropped in the 90s.
    I like to think Pearl Jam had something to do with that :lol:

    But all studies I have read, and the one I posted, indicate a decrease in crime since the law changed here in Michigan.. I dont think it is a coincidence..

    And yes I am aware Detroit is 15 miles south of me.. Fuckin' Tigers
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
  • kenny olav
    kenny olav Posts: 3,319
    Caveeze wrote:
    I agree you deserve to not live in fear..but it sounds a bit like paranoia to me as well..

    you said it yourself, you only hear about these things.. they dont actually happen close to you.. well, that close anyway..

    but fuck all of the arguing.. you know my stance and I know yours..

    so give me your solutions that would make you feel safe.. and I will be your checks and balances.. and you can be mine :)

    Clearly detail to me how creating more laws or restrictions (as far as guns are concerned) helps to make you feel safe..
    Do you think bad people will say " oh shit!! its against the law now.. we wont do that"

    I can assure you they wont..

    and if this gun problem was nipped in the butt before the turn of the 1900's, I would agree your policy might work..

    but the truth is, it is to far gone to actually expect the results you speak of.. there are WAY to many guns in this country .. Better yet, there are way to many people with little to zero sense of self, or humanity, that have access to this efficient tool..

    So explain to me how Mass. is better off.. What is the government there actually controlling? it seems to me that the state is actually crippling the ability of A+ type folks to say "we have had enough"..

    I believe my states policy is a much more effective model..

    It is happening. It doesn't matter how often it's happening close to me. And my point was that it's because of strict gun control in my state that it's not happening close to me as often as it does elsewhere in the USA.

    It's paranoia to think the government will take away rights if people don't have guns, because in the UK for example, there aren't many guns. It's not paranoia to think that one or more of the 270 million guns in the USA might one day be used against me or you or anyone we know.

    What is your state? In my state, ever since a gun control law was passed in 1998, the number of gun permits has dropped by a third. As of 2011, Massachusetts has the third lowest number of gun deaths in the USA (http://www.lcav.org/states/Massachusett ... ummary.pdf). I rest my case.
  • kenny olav
    kenny olav Posts: 3,319
    In Massachusetts, there are only about 200,000 gun permits. Not sure how many guns we have in the state, but I know that our twice-elected governor Deval Patrick proposed that the number of guns that someone with a permit could purchase should be limited to one-per-month, which of course was met with opposition by gun rights groups, but really, why is that proposal unreasonable? Who needs to buy more than 12 guns per year?

    We have also had a successful "Gift for Guns" program: http://www.masslive.com/news/index.ssf/ ... usett.html

    Meanwhile, 12 other states are looking at proposals to eliminate gun permits, which is insane: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/sto ... 53391932/1
  • Idris
    Idris Posts: 2,317
    Guess this can go here, (this happened a couple hrs ago)

    Shooting at Toronto Eaton Centre

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/story/2012/06/02/toronto-eaton-center-shooting.html

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/shots-fired-at-torontos-eatons-centre-at-least-two-injured/article4226794/
  • kenny olav
    kenny olav Posts: 3,319
    Two teenagers shot in Cambridge, MA while sitting on a porch, one was killed...
    http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/0 ... story.html

    These things won't end until we get real about what 'freedom' means in terms of guns.
  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    kenny olav wrote:
    Two teenagers shot in Cambridge, MA while sitting on a porch, one was killed...
    http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/0 ... story.html

    These things won't end until we get real about what 'freedom' means in terms of guns.
    No sir.. These things wont end until we get real about why these crimes are commited.. THERE WILL ALWAYS BE GUNS!! I cant believe you dont get that :lol:
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    Just to say Kenny.. You can make all the gun laws you want.. I would still be able to find one if I wanted one.. no problem..

    Why not enforce the laws that already exist and stand firm on sentences?
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
  • kenny olav
    kenny olav Posts: 3,319
    Caveeze, I totally get that there will always be guns, because I know that people don't seem to be rational enough to get rid of them. I have no choice but to consider you to be one of the irrational who think that they should exist. Your mentality is the only reason they are allowed to exist.

    If that was my daughter who died on that porch in Cambridge, would you still laugh about what I don't get?

    Do you honestly think that no effort is being made to enforce the laws that exist?

    There's no proper way to police the power of guns. I don't understand why people don't get THAT.
  • kenny olav
    kenny olav Posts: 3,319
    I don't believe in gun control. I believe in GUN ELIMINATION.
  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    kenny olav wrote:
    Caveeze, I totally get that there will always be guns, because I know that people don't seem to be rational enough to get rid of them. I have no choice but to consider you to be one of the irrational who think that they should exist. Your mentality is the only reason they are allowed to exist.

    If that was my daughter who died on that porch in Cambridge, would you still laugh about what I don't get?

    Do you honestly think that no effort is being made to enforce the laws that exist?

    There's no proper way to police the power of guns. I don't understand why people don't get THAT.
    Oh Kenny.. I would love to live in your world of lollipops and rainbows.. My mentality?

    Law abiding citizens arming themselves is a VERY rational decision at this point.. to many guns on the street.. so many that you will never get rid of them all.

    sorry man, but certain folks will never wise up and act like righteous people.. they will continue to try to get over.. on me, on you.. and if they are absolutely positive there isnt the business end of a 12 gauge waiting for them beyond the door of there home invasion, we have all lost..

    Your ideals seem pure and wonderful Kenny.. but there is absolutely no real life application of your lofty goals in this current situation.. Don't disarm the people, disarm the criminals.. and when you figure that out, I will saw my guns in half..
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    kenny olav wrote:
    I don't believe in gun control. I believe in GUN ELIMINATION.
    Good luck with that.. and pass that shit over here man :D
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    edited June 2012
    http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/0 ... story.html

    please write the gun law that prevents this kenny..
    Please write any law that prevents any crime!!!
    I mean, murder is punishable by death in a few states.. and people still do it..
    all the legislation in the world wont stop shit.. wont change shit..
    People growing as people and becoming educated is our only hope..

    Spend less time and money trying to regulate everything and spend more time and money educating people.. attempt to eliminate poverty..
    Arm people with choices..
    you may get the results you want..
    Post edited by CAVSTARR313 on
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
  • CAVSTARR313
    CAVSTARR313 Posts: 8,756
    Caveeze wrote:
    http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2012/06/03/two-people-shot-cambridge-sunday-night/ajA0AY2VEbvc2ShA1NpKZK/story.html

    please write the gun law that prevents this kenny..
    Please write any law that prevents any crime!!!
    I mean, murder is punishable by death in a few states.. and people still do it..
    all the legislation in the world wont stop shit.. wont change shit..
    People growing as people and becoming educated is our only hope..

    Spend less time and money trying to regulate everything and spend more time and money educating people.. attempt to eliminate povety..
    Arm people with choices..
    you may get the results you want..

    because the laws are already in place..

    just give everyone a reason to follow them..
    None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe that they are free.
    Abrn Hlls '98 - Clarkston 2 '03 - Grd Rpds '06 - Abrn Hlls '06 - Clvd '10 - PJ20 - Berlin 1+2 '12 - Wrigley '13 - Pitt '13- buff '13- Philly 1+2 '13 - Seattle '13
  • kenny olav
    kenny olav Posts: 3,319
    Caveeze, it's a world of lollipops and rainbows you say... but what about the UK? Is that some fantasy world? Because that is where "Fully automatic weapons (submachine-guns, etc.) and self-loading weapons of calibre larger than .22 rimfire are totally banned, as also are all handguns (pistols and revolvers). Other rifles and their ammunition are permitted only for good reason. Shotgun ownership and use is controlled, and even low-power air rifles and pistols, while permitted, are controlled to some extent."

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politi ... ed_Kingdom (and wikipedia is very reliable at this point. i'm sure someone from the UK can dispute anything that's not correct there.)

    "In the United Kingdom in 2009 there were 0.07 recorded intentional homicides committed with a firearm per 100,000 inhabitants; for comparison, the figure for the United States was 3.0, about 40 times higher, and for Germany 0.2."

    40 times more people are killed by guns in the U.S. than in the U.K. 40 times! And that figure doesn't include accidental killings. Reminds me of a story of a friend of a friend who died after a gunshot accidentally hit him in the stomach. Sure, deadly accidents can happen in other ways, and you can't outlaws knives and such, but obviously a gun is a much more effective killing machine.

    When there were gun massacres in the UK, they reacted in a way that makes sense... they realized that society is safer without so many guns. They got rid of most guns... in a country of 60 million people. It's certainly not impossible. People just have to want to do it.

    You say if we get rid of guns, then only criminals will still have guns. As if criminals are specific breed of human. Anyone with a gun can decide to attack someone with it. It's not like people with gun licenses don't ever use them to commit crimes. You can't deny that if there are less guns, then there will be less gun crimes... or will try to anyway? Based on all evidence, you cannot. Maybe this doesn't matter to you. Why the hell not then?

    Perhaps a gun locked in a secure spot at home is needed to protect your home, in case of an intruder. I personally wouldn't feel safe with a gun in my home, but I can at least sympathize with the idea. However, I think guns at home are more likely to harm those living within the home than intruders. From what I recall, this has been proven in a number of studies.

    Caveeze, I criticize your mentality in regards to guns, but I want to be clear that I don't think you're an idiot. I'm sure you are capable of understanding why guns are not safe, and why therefore they should be banned. You choose not to at the moment. I think that's a terrible choice, and everyone like you who has made that choice needs to realize that people have died because of it. I'm tired of living with that choice that others have made. That's why I'm doing my damned best to make people choose differently, as they have in the UK.
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    The real question is why do people feel that they need to have a gun or in some cases more than 1 gun?
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    fife wrote:
    The real question is why do people feel that they need to have a gun or in some cases more than 1 gun?
    Different calibers and uses.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • fife
    fife Posts: 3,327
    Jason P wrote:
    fife wrote:
    The real question is why do people feel that they need to have a gun or in some cases more than 1 gun?
    Different calibers and uses.

    meaning what? guns only have 1 use and that is to shoot and hurt.
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,327
    fife wrote:
    Jason P wrote:
    fife wrote:
    The real question is why do people feel that they need to have a gun or in some cases more than 1 gun?
    Different calibers and uses.

    meaning what? guns only have 1 use and that is to shoot and hurt.
    My .22 plinks cans. My shotgun shoots clay pigeons (although the recoil does leave my shoulder hurting).

    I'm currently researching rifles for long-range target shooting.

    I did buy a handgun back around the time we had the bird flu scare ... but that was mostly due to reading The Stand and having an overactive imagination.
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    Jason P wrote:
    My .22 plinks cans. My shotgun shoots clay pigeons (although the recoil does leave my shoulder hurting).

    I'm currently researching rifles for long-range target shooting.

    I did buy a handgun back around the time we had the bird flu scare ... but that was mostly due to reading The Stand and having an overactive imagination.

    Exactly, or in the case of hunting, you aren't going to shoot a high powered rifle into the air at a bird. But, you may want it for deer hunting. So, you would need two guns

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