A smoke-free country? New Zealand taxes aim for it

Jason P
Jason P Posts: 19,305
edited June 2012 in A Moving Train
My biggest question ... where will all the Hobbits move to?

http://news.yahoo.com/smoke-free-country-zealand-taxes-aim-063909666--finance.html

WELLINGTON, New Zealand (AP) — There are smoke-free bars, smoke-free parks, even smoke-free college campuses. But a smoke-free country?

New Zealand's government on Thursday squeezed smokers more than ever by announcing a 40 percent hike in tobacco taxes over the next four years. Prices here are already among the highest in the world, and by 2016 they will top 20 New Zealand dollars ($15) a pack on average.

Officials hope higher taxes and new restrictions will bring the nation of 4.4 million closer to a recent pledge to snuff out the habit entirely by 2025. Other countries have lauded the idea of trying to wean their populace off tobacco, but few, if any, have been willing to put a date on it.

....
Be Excellent To Each Other
Party On, Dudes!
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Comments

  • pandora
    pandora Posts: 21,855
    Fast forward 75 years, yes I think we can be closer to a smoke free world.

    My sisters friends who are from the high smoking era, they are in their sixties,
    are dying from cancer one after another. Multiple deaths a year.
    I assume but don't know in all cases that it is linked to tobacco. But there is much suffering
    and for me they seem so young, me being 56.

    I have been told how beautiful New Zealand is, by friends that have visited.
    It would be lovely if they could accomplish this, most especially for the children.
    The article says recent pledge so perhaps the country's majority is on board for this.
    I wish them luck and admire their conviction.
  • chadwick
    chadwick up my ass Posts: 21,157
    pandora wrote:
    Fast forward 75 years, yes I think we can be closer to a smoke free world.

    My sisters friends who are from the high smoking era, they are in their sixties,
    are dying from cancer one after another. Multiple deaths a year.
    I assume but don't know in all cases that it is linked to tobacco. But there is much suffering
    and for me they seem so young, me being 56.

    I have been told how beautiful New Zealand is, by friends that have visited.
    It would be lovely if they could accomplish this, most especially for the children.
    The article says recent pledge so perhaps the country's majority is on board for this.
    I wish them luck and admire their conviction.

    my dad died @ 52
    he smoked up to 2 packs a day for a long time
    he had a massive heart attack and at the time of the H.A. he had pneumonia something fierce
    for poetry through the ceiling. ISBN: 1 4241 8840 7

    "Hear me, my chiefs!
    I am tired; my heart is
    sick and sad. From where
    the sun stands I will fight
    no more forever."
    Chief Joseph - Nez Perce
  • peacefrompaul
    peacefrompaul Posts: 25,293
    Good for New Zealand, I guess. I doubt that they will get rid of it... Too much money to be made on taxes. I suppose they will just tax the hell out of alcohol if tobacco goes away.
  • Johnny Abruzzo
    Johnny Abruzzo Philly Posts: 12,367
    Things like cigarettes that cause so much spending on health care should be taxed like hell. Same goes for soda (not banning large containers, which is ridiculous).

    In the "civilized" world (you know, not in the USA), where universal health care is, well, universal, this is especially appropriate.
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila,  PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24; Pittsburgh 5/16/25; Pittsburgh 5/18/25

    Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,678
    I think it's stupid to even try for a smoke free country. If people want to smoke they should be able to (I support smoke-free establishments of course). In Canada smokers do pay outrageous taxes on cigarettes, which are high enough that they more than make up for any additional health care they may need as a result of smoking. They should be lower, actually - they're paying more than they're taking compared to other citizens. But aside from that, I support taxing such products. Just not disallowing people from partaking. Plus, prohibition DOES NOT WORK. You do stuff like this, and you've got yet ANOTHER illegal smuggler-based trade on your hands.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • satansbed
    satansbed Posts: 2,139
    you can do it in New Zealand because it is nationwide, im not sure you could do something like this in the states where every county sets their own taxes on things like cigarettes.
  • Johnny Abruzzo
    Johnny Abruzzo Philly Posts: 12,367
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    I think it's stupid to even try for a smoke free country. If people want to smoke they should be able to (I support smoke-free establishments of course). In Canada smokers do pay outrageous taxes on cigarettes, which are high enough that they more than make up for any additional health care they may need as a result of smoking. They should be lower, actually - they're paying more than they're taking compared to other citizens. But aside from that, I support taxing such products. Just not disallowing people from partaking. Plus, prohibition DOES NOT WORK. You do stuff like this, and you've got yet ANOTHER illegal smuggler-based trade on your hands.

    Yep. Prohibition is always a terrible idea. How many more history lessons do we really need on this?

    I think the Kiwis have the right idea here.
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila,  PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24; Pittsburgh 5/16/25; Pittsburgh 5/18/25

    Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
  • WaveCameCrashin
    WaveCameCrashin Posts: 2,929
    It will do nothing more than create a black market for cigarettes. Just another grand scheme by a bunch of utopian master minds. If people want to smoke it should be their choice. What ever happened to free will ? Why cant these beuaracrats leave people alone ? Why doesn't N.Z outlaw alcohol also? Why not it kills ?
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,678
    WaveCameCrashin wrote:
    It will do nothing more than create a black market for cigarettes. Just another grand scheme by a bunch of utopian master minds. If people want to smoke it should be their choice. What ever happened to free will ? Why cant these beuaracrats leave people alone ? Why doesn't N.Z outlaw alcohol also? Why not it kills ?
    Exactly.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    It makes me wonder...what will be the next thing decided by others - by those with the almighty wisdom beyond us little folks - who think they know what's best for us?

    Where is the line drawn, how much farther will it go?

    Baby steps, baby steps...until we're so far away, we can't even see where the line was to begin with.

    No lines!
  • morello
    morello Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 6,217
    Jeez, you guys know more about what's happening in my country than I do!! ;) I guess I'm kinda distracted by impending world trips so not following the news so much atm.
    <hr>
    PJ - Auckland 2009; Alpine Valley1&2 2011; Man1, Am'dam1&2, Berlin1&2, Stockholm, Oslo & Copenhagen 2012; LA, Oakland, Portland, Spokane, Calgary, Vancouver, Seattle 2013; Auckland 2014, Auckland1&2 2024
    EV - Canberra, Newcastle & Sydney 1&2 2011
  • Johnny Abruzzo
    Johnny Abruzzo Philly Posts: 12,367
    WaveCameCrashin wrote:
    It will do nothing more than create a black market for cigarettes. Just another grand scheme by a bunch of utopian master minds. If people want to smoke it should be their choice. What ever happened to free will ? Why cant these beuaracrats leave people alone ? Why doesn't N.Z outlaw alcohol also? Why not it kills ?

    They haven't outlawed cigarettes.
    Spectrum 10/27/09; New Orleans JazzFest 5/1/10; Made in America 9/2/12; Phila, PA 10/21/13; Phila,  PA 10/22/13; Baltimore Arena 10/27/13; Phila, PA 4/28/16; Phila, PA 4/29/16; Fenway Park 8/7/16; Fenway Park 9/2/18; Asbury Park 9/18/21; Camden 9/14/22; Las Vegas 5/16/24; Las Vegas 5/18/24; Phila, PA 9/7/24; Phila, PA 9/9/24; Baltimore Arena 9/12/24; Pittsburgh 5/16/25; Pittsburgh 5/18/25

    Tres Mtns - TLA 3/23/11; EV - Tower Theatre 6/25/11; Temple of the Dog - Tower Theatre 11/5/16
  • morello
    morello Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 6,217
    Johnny Abruzzo wrote:
    WaveCameCrashin wrote:
    It will do nothing more than create a black market for cigarettes. Just another grand scheme by a bunch of utopian master minds. If people want to smoke it should be their choice. What ever happened to free will ? Why cant these beuaracrats leave people alone ? Why doesn't N.Z outlaw alcohol also? Why not it kills ?
    They haven't outlawed cigarettes.
    "it should be their choice" Yep but what about taxpayers then having to foot the bill to cover smokers health costs(public health is predominant healthcare here)?
    <hr>
    PJ - Auckland 2009; Alpine Valley1&2 2011; Man1, Am'dam1&2, Berlin1&2, Stockholm, Oslo & Copenhagen 2012; LA, Oakland, Portland, Spokane, Calgary, Vancouver, Seattle 2013; Auckland 2014, Auckland1&2 2024
    EV - Canberra, Newcastle & Sydney 1&2 2011
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,678
    morello wrote:
    Johnny Abruzzo wrote:
    WaveCameCrashin wrote:
    It will do nothing more than create a black market for cigarettes. Just another grand scheme by a bunch of utopian master minds. If people want to smoke it should be their choice. What ever happened to free will ? Why cant these beuaracrats leave people alone ? Why doesn't N.Z outlaw alcohol also? Why not it kills ?
    They haven't outlawed cigarettes.
    "it should be their choice" Yep but what about taxpayers then having to foot the bill to cover smokers health costs(public health is predominant healthcare here)?
    As I mentioned, in Canada smokers pay enormous taxes on cigarettes ($10 - $11 for a pack, and more than half of that is taxes). Smokers more than make up for whatever extra health care costs there are over a lifetime.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • morello
    morello Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 6,217
    WaveCameCrashin wrote:
    It will do nothing more than create a black market for cigarettes. Just another grand scheme by a bunch of utopian master minds. If people want to smoke it should be their choice. What ever happened to free will ? Why cant these beuaracrats leave people alone ? Why doesn't N.Z outlaw alcohol also? Why not it kills ?
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    morello wrote:
    Johnny Abruzzo wrote:
    They haven't outlawed cigarettes.
    "it should be their choice" Yep but what about taxpayers then having to foot the bill to cover smokers health costs(public health is predominant healthcare here)?
    As I mentioned, in Canada smokers pay enormous taxes on cigarettes ($10 - $11 for a pack, and more than half of that is taxes). Smokers more than make up for whatever extra health care costs there are over a lifetime.
    Yeah I think that's what they're talking about here, hiking the taxes so hugely it becomes a big discouragement to smoke & then yeah covers the cost of the health care.
    <hr>
    PJ - Auckland 2009; Alpine Valley1&2 2011; Man1, Am'dam1&2, Berlin1&2, Stockholm, Oslo & Copenhagen 2012; LA, Oakland, Portland, Spokane, Calgary, Vancouver, Seattle 2013; Auckland 2014, Auckland1&2 2024
    EV - Canberra, Newcastle & Sydney 1&2 2011
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,678
    morello wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    morello wrote:
    "it should be their choice" Yep but what about taxpayers then having to foot the bill to cover smokers health costs(public health is predominant healthcare here)?
    As I mentioned, in Canada smokers pay enormous taxes on cigarettes ($10 - $11 for a pack, and more than half of that is taxes). Smokers more than make up for whatever extra health care costs there are over a lifetime.
    Yeah I think that's what they're talking about here, hiking the taxes so hugely it becomes a big discouragement to smoke & then yeah covers the cost of the health care.
    Yeah, I'm sure it's a deterrent for young people; they don't start smoking as much. But It's not really a deterrent for people already addicted. They will still pay it because they're addicts (and of course seek out cheaper smokes on the blackmarket), or because they love to smoke. But yeah, if future generations don't start, then great.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • morello
    morello Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 6,217
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    morello wrote:
    PJ_Soul wrote:
    As I mentioned, in Canada smokers pay enormous taxes on cigarettes ($10 - $11 for a pack, and more than half of that is taxes). Smokers more than make up for whatever extra health care costs there are over a lifetime.
    Yeah I think that's what they're talking about here, hiking the taxes so hugely it becomes a big discouragement to smoke & then yeah covers the cost of the health care.
    Yeah, I'm sure it's a deterrent for young people; they don't start smoking as much. But It's not really a deterrent for people already addicted. They will still pay it because they're addicts (and of course seek out cheaper smokes on the blackmarket), or because they love to smoke. But yeah, if future generations don't start, then great.
    If one older person gives up because of it + it helps pay for the cost of the healthcare it's worth it I say.
    <hr>
    PJ - Auckland 2009; Alpine Valley1&2 2011; Man1, Am'dam1&2, Berlin1&2, Stockholm, Oslo & Copenhagen 2012; LA, Oakland, Portland, Spokane, Calgary, Vancouver, Seattle 2013; Auckland 2014, Auckland1&2 2024
    EV - Canberra, Newcastle & Sydney 1&2 2011
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited December 2021
    Old thread, but just noticed New Zealand has ramped up the smoking prohibition.  I hate cigarettes.  They smell like shit and make people around them smell like shit too.  They have been a key factor in many deaths of people I love, but is prohibition the answer?  
    https://www.cnn.com/2021/12/09/asia/new-zealand-outlaw-smoking-intl-hnk/index.html
    I’m torn, I dislike prohibition about as much as I dislike cigarettes, ha.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    Prohibition never works, in Ontario a pack of smokes is around $15 or more.  So most common sense people just buy off indigenous communities at a fraction of the cost, I’m sure they have a large black market tobacco industry… 
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • CM189191
    CM189191 Posts: 6,927
    Meltdown99 said:
    Prohibition never works, in Ontario a pack of smokes is around $15 or more.  So most common sense people just buy off indigenous communities at a fraction of the cost, I’m sure they have a large black market tobacco industry… 

    'never works'







    https://uwaterloo.ca/tobacco-use-canada/adult-tobacco-use/smoking-provinces/ontario

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